AuthorTopic: Chained to the Cross  (Read 26603 times)

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Chained to the Cross: Paradise by the Dashboard Light
« Reply #120 on: November 22, 2013, 07:15:24 AM »
Actually, "humiliation play" is a very small genre.  The audience for "objectification" based scenes in porn is also small, but relatively balanced, being one of the few genres which attracts small numbers of men and women. It generates a disproportional number of titles because it's fans buy pretty much anything.  Rather like the left behind series and similar books, it has a dedicated fan base which push sales high in comparison to other genres.

Maybe in your porn stories, not in videos.

Besides, there is a level of humiliation and degradation implied in any business that makes this most intimate act a matter of $$s and cents.


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Not at all.  I am pointing out that other forms of exploitation are equally bad. 

Thousands of people are forced, by economic hardship, to spend their working careers lining the pockets of the farming industry.  It's soul-destroying work, leaving people with broken bodies, old before their time.  Failure to treat infections from cuts in the field can lead to disease. 

Is it farming that is to blame? How big a part does the moral dimension of wanting our food to be affordable play in that exploitation? (I would argue it plays a part in both examples.)

Should we question the desire for affordable food, or should we question the system that allows exploitation for the benefit of a few who have hijacked the system?

Yes, when our desires (not needs) come at the price of exploiting others, we should forego them. We shouldn't point fingers at "the system" and then continue to play our part in making it all possible. And, although we will all slip up from time to time, we can still be repentant and avoid telling others that its all OK and NO BIG DEAL.

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Sexual liberalism is an influence on the marketplace, but it did not create it.  There have been plenty of sexually liberal cultures in history. 

I would argue that your point is the insecure one, given that you seem to need to conflate exploitation with sexual liberalism. Yes it happens.  But you're not making a moral argument about other things people put into bodily orifices - like food.   :P

Sexual liberalism promotes the idea that it is OK and NO BIG DEAL to go around satisfying any and all sexual desires, no matter what the long-term costs to you, other people and society in general. It goes hand in hand with exploitative consumer capitalism.


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Because political conservatives and their policies are what drives some people to the strip pole. 

I argue that we should take away the divine right of the rich to abuse the poor.  It used to be enshrined as the right of kings to rule, drawing on the example of the Davidic line.  Now it's called prosperity gospel.  The result of this method of social control is the same - the golden rule backed up with a divine claim that it's the way God wants it.

By trying to shift the blame on the sexual liberalism aspect of it, rather than capitalistic exploitation, attention is misdirected away from the abuses of capital.  It's a double-win, the same "conservatives" that want to create an environment ripe for economic exploitation also decry those who are work in the porn industry, exploited or not, as "immoral". One must risk social shame to fight for one's rights.

Who does that serve?

We only reinforce the exploitation of the poor by the rich when we tell the young strippers or prostitutes or porn stars what they are doing is OK as long as it pays the bills. The liberal sexual ethic most definitely serves the "conservatives" who create an economic environment ripe for exploitation. It's a corporatocracy's wet dream.

The religious advocacy against things like sexual exploitation and abortion is only lumped in with that corporate conservative movement because that's how the corporate MSM portrays it to the world.


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So if you were to kill a born child who is a few days old to spare it a life of poverty, that would just be an act of "rescheduling" that child's life experience? Seriously, this kind of logic is disturbing...

Reductio ad absurdum.  A common logical phallus - y (I had to get a porn pun in somewhere).  I thought your arguing skills were better than that.

Personally, I am against abortion after the quickening (after 18 weeks) unless it is for medical reasons.

There is no fallacy here unless you accept that some magical metaphysical transformation occurs before and after 18 weeks, making it OK to "reschedule" the soul of an unborn child before 18 weeks but not OK to do it after. Is that what you believe?


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UB was describing the "Swinger" lifestyle as an example of mulitple partners being an unhealthy lifestyle, which is how the thread drifted into polyfidelity. 

I would be more concerned if the average american male was socialized to believe that sex was bad, that a legal status of marriage made the difference been it being right or wrong, or that sex is something shameful. I would be horrified if social mores meant that adolescents coming into puberty could not discuss sex, including the dangers you rightly point out.

This is exactly what I was talking about with the corporate MSM portraying religious advocacy to the world. You have eaten it up.

Lumping in the advocacy against pre-marital sex with the idea that sex is bad or shameful or that adolescents cannot even discuss sex is exactly what they want you to do. It's not at all what thoughtful religious conservatives believe.

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I would be more concerned if the average American adolescent female was socialized to believe that she was a lesser creature than men, that she was property of her father until she cleaved to a husband.  I would be horrified if social mores told her that sexual pleasure is bad, and it was for procreation only.  The psychological damage that telling a person that something infinitely pleasurable is wrong is a trick only the most malevolent spirit could come up with. But he's apparently pretty good at tricking people.

I would be concerned about those things to...

As the "malevolent spirit" says - "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

Anyway, our moral conscience should not be guided by what is or is not "infinitely pleasurable" to us. The Golden Rule does not say "do unto others what derives you infinite pleasure". Having sex isn't wrong, but diminishing sex to a status of little more than self-gratification most certainly is.

BTW, in case this wasn't already clear, what I'm talking about here is what kind of sexual ethic we should be advocating for. I do NOT believe that this ethic should be forced on people because it loses all meaning when it is purely a matter of fear/shame and does not come from the heart.

And, in terms of abortion, I believe the people through their local/state representatives should be free to decide what regulations are appropriate and that the federal govenrment should not manufacture a "right to privacy" to circumvent the state's police power and an unborn child's right to life.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 07:24:34 AM by Ashvin »

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #121 on: November 22, 2013, 08:06:59 AM »

Going on holidays together is not the same as going to bed together. The question is  not how liberated she is workwise, or otherwise, theres always your alimony, the question is how you would cope if your world walked out, made possible by divorce as a more than probable outcome in any marriage and especially so in subsequent marriages having even less chance of success. And would it be better for you if that was as easy as for Henry VIII. Ie Church dogma protecting you from skid row.


I hope not.  My wife and ex-wife in bed together (other than watching a film) is not my cup of tea. 

If I had to rely on Church dogma to prevent the woman I love from leaving, I would be a very sad individual indeed.  I can see it being necessary when the husband uses religion as an excuse for abuse, treats her like property, and sees her as subservient, a tool for pushing out babies.

The church's stance against divorce is a tool to promote misogyny.   If my wife ever left me, I would blame no one but myself. I know plenty of people who walked away from churches and christianity because they, or someone they had compassion for, was being abused by a husband, and the church condemned escape form that hell.  In one case, a woman was asked not to come back to church because she reported her husband's sexual abuse of their daughter.


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Your expectations reflect the morality of the period you grew up in where that expectation was reasonable, to expect monogamy from a woman or even virginity. You could also expect everything else  associated with the good life, the great american dream.

I think you'd find that both Eddie and I faced significant challenges in our youth, and overcome poverty to get where we are. 

Monogamy is a value choice, neither better or worse than other relationship choices.  It's right for me, but I do not presume to claim it's right for everyone. It does reflect the mores of out age, showing that we are products of our environment, but that does not make other choices wrong.


My point exactly, in those days you would get to live the dream because the jobs and pathways to jobs were there for anyone. Now they are not. In those days a mongomaous wife was an expectation anyone could attain. Now some young men must settle for sexual scraps and slops If they cannot afford prostitutes who change condoms between bookings. My point is it is not their preferred situation. I could say student debt and unemployment is right for some, and dont make value judgements about it.


"Settle for scraps"?  Why?  What's wrong with wooing a lady, for Aphrodite's sake!  Most the young people I know (we have kids in the early 20's) are in committed relationships.  Some of them are unconvention by the standards of my generation, but they are still committed relationships.

Yes, unemployment is right for some. If you can run below the radar, good for you.

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Not to my knowledge.  They meet people though the normal course of life, fine themselves attracted to them, and the relationships develop from there.  As far as I know, the idea that humans can have a "polydar" (or gaydar, or any other radar for different sexual proclivities makes little sense to me).   

As for sweat, semen or perfume, these people do shower.  They groom themselves just as well before a date.  People were asking the same questions regarding gay relationships in the past.  Same went for interracial relationships.  Bigotry is nothing new but sometimes it's hard to see when it's interpreted though the lens of a different social paradigm.

So they dont pick up in a bar but the normal course of life. Man fancies woman notices no ring or asks if she has a boyfriend. "I have several. "

Lol.  I've actually heard a lady use that line.


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He does not think "oh thats too bad" he thinks along the lines of that hardcore porn comprising 30% of the net, "Another dime a dozen dirty slut, Ill fuck her too". He simply gets grabby in going from there.

Are you describing your thought process, or your fear of the thought processes of the young men who may approach your daughters? I ask because while a approve of the poly lifestyle, it's not what I'd want for our kids until they are emotionally mature to handle it.


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You avoided the question of how such people include or exclude newbies. Is there a roster or a regular meeting before this girl is allowed to include the new guy in the schedule. Doubtful. The old guys just knock on her door and it doesnt open as  shes busy.


Whoa.  Slow down and use both hands for typing, please - it's not that exciting.  People meet poly partners, fall in love and enter into relationships in exactly the same way as they have since parents stopped arranging marriages for their kids. 

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Are you seriously telling me this is not why young men frequently put a decal covering their entire back windshield of a girl raising her ass in the air? How do most 40 year old women feel seeing that if mrs UB still has a body like that perfect girl finds it disgusting?

I asked my wife.  She doesn't mind it at all.  What other people do, how other people choose to love and express themselves, is not ours to judge.   She wouldn't put it on her own car, but that's her choice.


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No Freud. He did correctly predict Hitler would  have an anal fxation according to the teenage cousin or neice who had to squat over his face and poop until she killed herself. Heard about the suicide rate in the porn industry?

What has that got to do with the price of fish?  I understand the suicide rate is about the same as the people who make iPhones.  Is one more tragic than the other?


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The radio tells us during daytime listening hours women need a hair free "meow" or "cha cha", so your daughters all want to wax at around 50$ a fortnight if you can afford it, just like your sons start shaving their face. When can I wear make-up mom, is now when can I get waxed (I dont want any boys telling their friends Im hairy and everyone at school laughing). Ok next time Im going in for a wax and vagazzle (rhinestones etc).

We obviously listen to different radio shows. 

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As ashvin says dont use yourself as an example if unusual. The kids like the commercial stations that 99% are tuned into.

Which I interpret as saying, "don't speak up if you disagree with my dogma."  Most kids these days plug their ipods in and listen to that, or burn an MP3 of multiple albums. When they do listen to radio, I swear it's the perfect example of ADD.  Songs don't get to finish before they are tuning in another station.  If they catch one or two seconds out of an advert, I'd be surprised. Reaching the youth is a challenge for radio advertising.

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Actually, I don't switch it on in the first place.  No, we didn't tell the kids it was all rubbish.  We explained what we saw as the positive and the negative in any situation, and encouraged them to make informed choices.


So how does this apply to incessant ads about sexpo and hairfree treatment just for 1 example. What did you or would you do the first time or every time it plays and your daughters are 12 odd and growing hair and you believe bald is beautiful for beavers?


When our daughter was about that age, she noticed that her mom was shaven, so shaved herself, then didn't know what to do when she had an ingrowing hair, so she asked her mom.  We found it amusing and it opened the door for mom and daughter to have another chat about the birds and the bees. 

So I see you example as positive, not negative.  I know, I know, personal experiences should be dismissed when they disagree with religious dogma.

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Yes, it is exploitation.  How much access to porn do those third-world villages have?  i think we agree that exploitation is a global, endemic problem.  We disagree as to the part liberal sexual morality plays in the overall picture.

Ive commented elsewhere when  the worldwide news of gangrape came up in India not so long ago, this was a new development due to softcore porn ads introduced on liberal bollywood TV and the iphone epidemic sharing porn clips. This confuses them and makes women all sex objects not respect objects. House girls go to cities not just villages. The majority of men do not abuse them. Those who do are in no question it is wrong by their religion. My point referencing them was to Eddie that they cant get jobs elsewhere like starlets in the west so are in fact exploited whereas women in the west choosing sex/porn industry for more money for less hours are not victims of exploitation.

Gang rapes occur in the US, perpetrated by people who know it is wrong by their religion too. 

I think the answer is education, not further religious oppression.


Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Chained to the Cross: Paradise by the Dashboard Light
« Reply #122 on: November 22, 2013, 08:46:28 AM »
Actually, "humiliation play" is a very small genre.  The audience for "objectification" based scenes in porn is also small, but relatively balanced, being one of the few genres which attracts small numbers of men and women. It generates a disproportional number of titles because it's fans buy pretty much anything.  Rather like the left behind series and similar books, it has a dedicated fan base which push sales high in comparison to other genres.

Maybe in your porn stories, not in videos.

Actually, I was referring to video as well.  I will concede, you may secretly be an affectionardo of hard core porn video, but until you come clean, I will assume I have a little more "exposure" to audience statistics.  Number of sales in a sub genre is proportionally higher, since they but everything.


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Besides, there is a level of humiliation and degradation implied in any business that makes this most intimate act a matter of $$s and cents.

I would say, "implied by your religious sensibilities" rather than the business itself.


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Not at all.  I am pointing out that other forms of exploitation are equally bad. 

Thousands of people are forced, by economic hardship, to spend their working careers lining the pockets of the farming industry.  It's soul-destroying work, leaving people with broken bodies, old before their time.  Failure to treat infections from cuts in the field can lead to disease. 

Is it farming that is to blame? How big a part does the moral dimension of wanting our food to be affordable play in that exploitation? (I would argue it plays a part in both examples.)

Should we question the desire for affordable food, or should we question the system that allows exploitation for the benefit of a few who have hijacked the system?

Yes, when our desires (not needs) come at the price of exploiting others, we should forego them. We shouldn't point fingers at "the system" and then continue to play our part in making it all possible. And, although we will all slip up from time to time, we can still be repentant and avoid telling others that its all OK and NO BIG DEAL.

I appreciate you being consistent on exploitation.


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Sexual liberalism is an influence on the marketplace, but it did not create it.  There have been plenty of sexually liberal cultures in history. 

I would argue that your point is the insecure one, given that you seem to need to conflate exploitation with sexual liberalism. Yes it happens.  But you're not making a moral argument about other things people put into bodily orifices - like food.   :P

Sexual liberalism promotes the idea that it is OK and NO BIG DEAL to go around satisfying any and all sexual desires, no matter what the long-term costs to you, other people and society in general. It goes hand in hand with exploitative consumer capitalism.

I think it is OK and NO BIG BEAL to go around satisfying any and all sexual desires - provided all involved are consenting adults.  It is up to the individual to make the value judgement. I believe in keeping the government, and prudish deities, out of my bedroom.


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Because political conservatives and their policies are what drives some people to the strip pole. 

I argue that we should take away the divine right of the rich to abuse the poor.  It used to be enshrined as the right of kings to rule, drawing on the example of the Davidic line.  Now it's called prosperity gospel.  The result of this method of social control is the same - the golden rule backed up with a divine claim that it's the way God wants it.

By trying to shift the blame on the sexual liberalism aspect of it, rather than capitalistic exploitation, attention is misdirected away from the abuses of capital.  It's a double-win, the same "conservatives" that want to create an environment ripe for economic exploitation also decry those who are work in the porn industry, exploited or not, as "immoral". One must risk social shame to fight for one's rights.

Who does that serve?

We only reinforce the exploitation of the poor by the rich when we tell the young strippers or prostitutes or porn stars what they are doing is OK as long as it pays the bills. The liberal sexual ethic most definitely serves the "conservatives" who create an economic environment ripe for exploitation. It's a corporatocracy's wet dream.

The religious advocacy against things like sexual exploitation and abortion is only lumped in with that corporate conservative movement because that's how the corporate MSM portrays it to the world.

So you don't think actual Christian conservatives are against Sexual liberalism?  It's the corporations lumping them together?  The answer, rather than saying, "this is nothing to be ashamed of, stand up for your rights," is further oppression?

We have very different viewpoints here.  You see Christianity as liberating.  I see it as oppressive.



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So if you were to kill a born child who is a few days old to spare it a life of poverty, that would just be an act of "rescheduling" that child's life experience? Seriously, this kind of logic is disturbing...

Reductio ad absurdum.  A common logical phallus - y (I had to get a porn pun in somewhere).  I thought your arguing skills were better than that.

Personally, I am against abortion after the quickening (after 18 weeks) unless it is for medical reasons.

There is no fallacy here unless you accept that some magical metaphysical transformation occurs before and after 18 weeks, making it OK to "reschedule" the soul of an unborn child before 18 weeks but not OK to do it after. Is that what you believe?
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Yes.  That magical metaphysical transformation is the arrival of the soul into a developing body.  From a mass of cells independent movement comes (hence the name).  People have believed that for far longer than the pro-life movement has been around, and for many centuries it was the measure against which taking herbs to abort a pregnancy was seen as acceptable. 


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UB was describing the "Swinger" lifestyle as an example of mulitple partners being an unhealthy lifestyle, which is how the thread drifted into polyfidelity. 

I would be more concerned if the average american male was socialized to believe that sex was bad, that a legal status of marriage made the difference been it being right or wrong, or that sex is something shameful. I would be horrified if social mores meant that adolescents coming into puberty could not discuss sex, including the dangers you rightly point out.

This is exactly what I was talking about with the corporate MSM portraying religious advocacy to the world. You have eaten it up.

I have a  Baccalaureate in Divinity.  I observe the "US evangelical movement" - (Dominionism in particular) because I see their sickness as a threat to humanity.  While I do not believe in a second coming, watching Jesus judge his flock would be a popcorn moment.


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Lumping in the advocacy against pre-marital sex with the idea that sex is bad or shameful or that adolescents cannot even discuss sex is exactly what they want you to do. It's not at all what thoughtful religious conservatives believe.

As you said, do not use an extreme example like yourself to represent the conservative Christian movement.  You are an outlier.


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I would be more concerned if the average American adolescent female was socialized to believe that she was a lesser creature than men, that she was property of her father until she cleaved to a husband.  I would be horrified if social mores told her that sexual pleasure is bad, and it was for procreation only.  The psychological damage that telling a person that something infinitely pleasurable is wrong is a trick only the most malevolent spirit could come up with. But he's apparently pretty good at tricking people.

I would be concerned about those things to...

As the "malevolent spirit" says - "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

Did you just admit that Paul was the malevolent spirit"?  there may be more agreement between us than I thought.  First UB, now you.  If christianity abandoned Paul and hateful interpretation of the OT, keeping only the gospels and encouraging people to follow Christ's example, I might actually regain some respect for it.


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Anyway, our moral conscience should not be guided by what is or is not "infinitely pleasurable" to us. The Golden Rule does not say "do unto others what derives you infinite pleasure". Having sex isn't wrong, but diminishing sex to a status of little more than self-gratification most certainly is.

BTW, in case this wasn't already clear, what I'm talking about here is what kind of sexual ethic we should be advocating for. I do NOT believe that this ethic should be forced on people because it loses all meaning when it is purely a matter of fear/shame and does not come from the heart.

Thank you for making that clear.  It is easy to conflate a position a person advocates  - with the person as an individual. 

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And, in terms of abortion, I believe the people through their local/state representatives should be free to decide what regulations are appropriate and that the federal govenrment should not manufacture a "right to privacy" to circumvent the state's police power and an unborn child's right to life.

I suspect the abortion issue will be one of the first to be devolved to a state level as energy access dwindles. 

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Chained to the Cross: Paradise by the Dashboard Light
« Reply #123 on: November 22, 2013, 09:25:00 AM »
Did you just admit that Paul was the malevolent spirit"?  there may be more agreement between us than I thought.  First UB, now you.  If christianity abandoned Paul and hateful interpretation of the OT, keeping only the gospels and encouraging people to follow Christ's example, I might actually regain some respect for it.
Aw, heck, I might as well weigh in on this.  No, Paul was not the malevolent spirit.  However, it has always bugged me, why is it that in all other post-Resurrection encounters, Jesus appeared as a flesh-and-blood human, but on the road to Damascus, Paul encountered a bright light?  Lucifer means bearer-of-light, after all.  I don't reject Paul out-of-hand, but I am skeptical, and if something he said isn't in line with the gospels, I don't accept it.

As to the Old Testament, I think it really just boils down to MSRP -- Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It's just showing how impossible it is to lead a sin-free life on your own, to help convince you that you really do need help.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #124 on: November 22, 2013, 06:50:46 PM »

Going on holidays together is not the same as going to bed together. The question is  not how liberated she is workwise, or otherwise, theres always your alimony, the question is how you would cope if your world walked out, made possible by divorce as a more than probable outcome in any marriage and especially so in subsequent marriages having even less chance of success. And would it be better for you if that was as easy as for Henry VIII. Ie Church dogma protecting you from skid row.


I hope not.  My wife and ex-wife in bed together (other than watching a film) is not my cup of tea. 

If I had to rely on Church dogma to prevent the woman I love from leaving, I would be a very sad individual indeed.  I can see it being necessary when the husband uses religion as an excuse for abuse, treats her like property, and sees her as subservient, a tool for pushing out babies.

The church's stance against divorce is a tool to promote misogyny.   If my wife ever left me, I would blame no one but myself. I know plenty of people who walked away from churches and christianity because they, or someone they had compassion for, was being abused by a husband, and the church condemned escape form that hell.  In one case, a woman was asked not to come back to church because she reported her husband's sexual abuse of their daugh

You used the example of the holiday in the context of sexual openmindedness. That is why I automatically assumed it was irrelevant to  "poly" debate. Of course you dont want her having sex with anyone else. A moneyed man does not complain that the prostitute sees other people, but that is not his ideal. That is what he can get.  The other young men who do not have money for this,  still accept the poly situation about as willingly as you would or the trick does. Its less than a consolation prize its a booby prize.

Of course you would blame yourself and you would be sad allright. Men not anywhere near as gushing kill themselves on a scale with tobacco and road death. Very progress ive.
 Anothe extreme outlier I would suggest in the woman probably told to try and resolve the marriage abuse without immediately resorting to abuse. Note that most funding collection for church charities now focus very much on domestic abuse. Have you not seen the church based charities run womens refuges and DV services?


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Your expectations reflect the morality of the period you grew up in where that expectation was reasonable, to expect monogamy from a woman or even virginity. You could also expect everything else  associated with the good life, the great american dream.

I think you'd find that both Eddie and I faced significant challenges in our youth, and overcome poverty to get where we are. 

Monogamy is a value choice, neither better or worse than other relationship choices.  It's right for me, but I do not presume to claim it's right for everyone. It does reflect the mores of out age, showing that we are products of our environment, but that does not make other choices wrong.


My point exactly, in those days you would get to live the dream because the jobs and pathways to jobs were there for anyone. Now they are not. In those days a mongomaous wife was an expectation anyone could attain. Now some young men must settle for sexual scraps and slops If they cannot afford prostitutes who change condoms between bookings. My point is it is not their preferred situation. I could say student debt and unemployment is right for some, and dont make value judgements about it.


"Settle for scraps"?  Why?  What's wrong with wooing a lady, for Aphrodite's sake!  Most the young people I know (we have kids in the early 20's) are in committed relationships.  Some of them are unconvention by the standards of my generation, but they are still committed relationships.

You know porn.  In the scenes between 2 people from before there was some scene of wooing and foreplay. In the multiple partners porn this is not so. I could only imagine wooing in the attempt to compete against the other partners. This is of course money mixed with sex. sex commoditized. Again,  new guy supposedly does not learn this girl is into multiple men and think "mmmm nymphomaniac easy" he thinks roses and composing love poems?

Yes, unemployment is right for some. If you can run below the radar, good for you.
So these young people who took on 600Kdebt and did 6 years college were really just loafers. This is how your whole right for some, but not for me meme runs.

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Not to my knowledge.  They meet people though the normal course of life, fine themselves attracted to them, and the relationships develop from there.  As far as I know, the idea that humans can have a "polydar" (or gaydar, or any other radar for different sexual proclivities makes little sense to me).   

As for sweat, semen or perfume, these people do shower.  They groom themselves just as well before a date.  People were asking the same questions regarding gay relationships in the past.  Same went for interracial relationships.  Bigotry is nothing new but sometimes it's hard to see when it's interpreted though the lens of a different social paradigm.

So they dont pick up in a bar but the normal course of life. Man fancies woman notices no ring or asks if she has a boyfriend. "I have several. "

Lol.  I've actually heard a lady use that line.

But is the man listening thinking "lady"? look at the evidence in the porn among other evidence to the contary.



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He does not think "oh thats too bad" he thinks along the lines of that hardcore porn comprising 30% of the net, "Another dime a dozen dirty slut, Ill fuck her too". He simply gets grabby in going from there.

Are you describing your thought process, or your fear of the thought processes of the young men who may approach your daughters? I ask because while a approve of the poly lifestyle, it's not what I'd want for our kids until they are emotionally mature to handle it.

So poly is not just adult but very adult, not M rated but X? Yes I do fear their getting hurt by "loverats" or becoming hardened and spiritually disconnected by the opposite paradigm of consumer culture commodifying young women and forgetting it should be  an expression of love at all.



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You avoided the question of how such people include or exclude newbies. Is there a roster or a regular meeting before this girl is allowed to include the new guy in the schedule. Doubtful. The old guys just knock on her door and it doesnt open as  shes busy.


Whoa.  Slow down and use both hands for typing, please - it's not that exciting.  People meet poly partners, fall in love and enter into relationships in exactly the same way as they have since parents stopped arranging marriages for their kids.

Since I dont detect any spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors in my quote, Ill assume that is a pornographer ridiculing masturbation. I believe the implied superiority of sex with other people over solo flights is evident also in the do as I say not as I do re monogamy.


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Are you seriously telling me this is not why young men frequently put a decal covering their entire back windshield of a girl raising her ass in the air? How do most 40 year old women feel seeing that if mrs UB still has a body like that perfect girl finds it disgusting?

I asked my wife.  She doesn't mind it at all.  What other people do, how other people choose to love and express themselves, is not ours to judge.   She wouldn't put it on her own car, but that's her choice.

That ass in the air decal is to do with expressing love and not objectification then.




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No Freud. He did correctly predict Hitler would  have an anal fxation according to the teenage cousin or neice who had to squat over his face and poop until she killed herself. Heard about the suicide rate in the porn industry?

What has that got to do with the price of fish?  I understand the suicide rate is about the same as the people who make iPhones.  Is one more tragic than the other?

The people making I phones get 10c an hour for 20 hours straight, they cant flip burgers for 10$ an hour for 8 hours instead. Do you think they would be jumping out the window of apple if the got 10K for an hour once a week, like the starlet who has gone to multiple orifices and multiple partners for the  great money vs hours?


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The radio tells us during daytime listening hours women need a hair free "meow" or "cha cha", so your daughters all want to wax at around 50$ a fortnight if you can afford it, just like your sons start shaving their face. When can I wear make-up mom, is now when can I get waxed (I dont want any boys telling their friends Im hairy and everyone at school laughing). Ok next time Im going in for a wax and vagazzle (rhinestones etc).

We obviously listen to different radio shows. 

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As ashvin says dont use yourself as an example if unusual. The kids like the commercial stations that 99% are tuned into.

Which I interpret as saying, "don't speak up if you disagree with my dogma."  Most kids these days plug their ipods in and listen to that, or burn an MP3 of multiple albums. When they do listen to radio, I swear it's the perfect example of ADD.  Songs don't get to finish before they are tuning in another station.  If they catch one or two seconds out of an advert, I'd be surprised. Reaching the youth is a challenge for radio advertising.

Ok forget the ads, listen to the lyrics and watch the video clips hich now have a mature content warning.


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Actually, I don't switch it on in the first place.  No, we didn't tell the kids it was all rubbish.  We explained what we saw as the positive and the negative in any situation, and encouraged them to make informed choices.


So how does this apply to incessant ads about sexpo and hairfree treatment just for 1 example. What did you or would you do the first time or every time it plays and your daughters are 12 odd and growing hair and you believe bald is beautiful for beavers?


When our daughter was about that age, she noticed that her mom was shaven, so shaved herself, then didn't know what to do when she had an ingrowing hair, so she asked her mom.  We found it amusing and it opened the door for mom and daughter to have another chat about the birds and the bees. 

So I see you example as positive, not negative.  I know, I know, personal experiences should be dismissed when they disagree with religious dogma.

Which religion? The bible says a woman should let her hair be covering for her head is about all I know in any religion. Believe it or not parents who believe in monogamy and commitment have kids who go through sex ed class in school and their parents also talk to them about sex and dating. I am talking about constant explicit bombardment.  Although we  do tell our kids to avoid doing damaging and demeaning things to themselves, rather than warn them its dangerous and you can end up like the starlets story if you are not mature eough but still is ok.

I do not really belong to any religion but see spiritual cfs where I read it. I choose not to ignore the end times predictions across all major religions significantly focussing on sexual excess and its social and spiritual effects as a sign of the times.

btw the seat of the soul is generally argued  between the heart or the brain, you seem to suggest its the muscles since the soul is there when theres movement. You suggest this is is apparent knowledge from ancient religions, when movement was apparent through ripples or kicks felt on the belly, not an ultrasound. Out of date religious belief is acceptable where its convenient.


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Yes, it is exploitation.  How much access to porn do those third-world villages have?  i think we agree that exploitation is a global, endemic problem.  We disagree as to the part liberal sexual morality plays in the overall picture.

Ive commented elsewhere when  the worldwide news of gangrape came up in India not so long ago, this was a new development due to softcore porn ads introduced on liberal bollywood TV and the iphone epidemic sharing porn clips. This confuses them and makes women all sex objects not respect objects. House girls go to cities not just villages. The majority of men do not abuse them. Those who do are in no question it is wrong by their religion. My point referencing them was to Eddie that they cant get jobs elsewhere like starlets in the west so are in fact exploited whereas women in the west choosing sex/porn industry for more money for less hours are not victims of exploitation.

Gang rapes occur in the US, perpetrated by people who know it is wrong by their religion too. 

I think the answer is education, not further religious oppression.
[/quote]
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Offline WHD

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #125 on: November 22, 2013, 07:38:43 PM »

Going on holidays together is not the same as going to bed together. The question is  not how liberated she is workwise, or otherwise, theres always your alimony, the question is how you would cope if your world walked out, made possible by divorce as a more than probable outcome in any marriage and especially so in subsequent marriages having even less chance of success. And would it be better for you if that was as easy as for Henry VIII. Ie Church dogma protecting you from skid row.


I hope not.  My wife and ex-wife in bed together (other than watching a film) is not my cup of tea. 

If I had to rely on Church dogma to prevent the woman I love from leaving, I would be a very sad individual indeed.  I can see it being necessary when the husband uses religion as an excuse for abuse, treats her like property, and sees her as subservient, a tool for pushing out babies.

The church's stance against divorce is a tool to promote misogyny.   If my wife ever left me, I would blame no one but myself. I know plenty of people who walked away from churches and christianity because they, or someone they had compassion for, was being abused by a husband, and the church condemned escape form that hell.  In one case, a woman was asked not to come back to church because she reported her husband's sexual abuse of their daugh

You used the example of the holiday in the context of sexual openmindedness. That is why I automatically assumed it was irrelevant to  "poly" debate. Of course you dont want her having sex with anyone else. A moneyed man does not complain that the prostitute sees other people, but that is not his ideal. That is what he can get.  The other young men who do not have money for this,  still accept the poly situation about as willingly as you would or the trick does. Its less than a consolation prize its a booby prize.

Of course you would blame yourself and you would be sad allright. Men not anywhere near as gushing kill themselves on a scale with tobacco and road death. Very progress ive.
 Anothe extreme outlier I would suggest in the woman probably told to try and resolve the marriage abuse without immediately resorting to abuse. Note that most funding collection for church charities now focus very much on domestic abuse. Have you not seen the church based charities run womens refuges and DV services?


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Your expectations reflect the morality of the period you grew up in where that expectation was reasonable, to expect monogamy from a woman or even virginity. You could also expect everything else  associated with the good life, the great american dream.

I think you'd find that both Eddie and I faced significant challenges in our youth, and overcome poverty to get where we are. 

Monogamy is a value choice, neither better or worse than other relationship choices.  It's right for me, but I do not presume to claim it's right for everyone. It does reflect the mores of out age, showing that we are products of our environment, but that does not make other choices wrong.


My point exactly, in those days you would get to live the dream because the jobs and pathways to jobs were there for anyone. Now they are not. In those days a mongomaous wife was an expectation anyone could attain. Now some young men must settle for sexual scraps and slops If they cannot afford prostitutes who change condoms between bookings. My point is it is not their preferred situation. I could say student debt and unemployment is right for some, and dont make value judgements about it.


"Settle for scraps"?  Why?  What's wrong with wooing a lady, for Aphrodite's sake!  Most the young people I know (we have kids in the early 20's) are in committed relationships.  Some of them are unconvention by the standards of my generation, but they are still committed relationships.

You know porn.  In the scenes between 2 people from before there was some scene of wooing and foreplay. In the multiple partners porn this is not so. I could only imagine wooing in the attempt to compete against the other partners. This is of course money mixed with sex. sex commoditized. Again,  new guy supposedly does not learn this girl is into multiple men and think "mmmm nymphomaniac easy" he thinks roses and composing love poems?

Yes, unemployment is right for some. If you can run below the radar, good for you.
So these young people who took on 600Kdebt and did 6 years college were really just loafers. This is how your whole right for some, but not for me meme runs.

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Not to my knowledge.  They meet people though the normal course of life, fine themselves attracted to them, and the relationships develop from there.  As far as I know, the idea that humans can have a "polydar" (or gaydar, or any other radar for different sexual proclivities makes little sense to me).   

As for sweat, semen or perfume, these people do shower.  They groom themselves just as well before a date.  People were asking the same questions regarding gay relationships in the past.  Same went for interracial relationships.  Bigotry is nothing new but sometimes it's hard to see when it's interpreted though the lens of a different social paradigm.

So they dont pick up in a bar but the normal course of life. Man fancies woman notices no ring or asks if she has a boyfriend. "I have several. "

Lol.  I've actually heard a lady use that line.

But is the man listening thinking "lady"? look at the evidence in the porn among other evidence to the contary.



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He does not think "oh thats too bad" he thinks along the lines of that hardcore porn comprising 30% of the net, "Another dime a dozen dirty slut, Ill fuck her too". He simply gets grabby in going from there.

Are you describing your thought process, or your fear of the thought processes of the young men who may approach your daughters? I ask because while a approve of the poly lifestyle, it's not what I'd want for our kids until they are emotionally mature to handle it.

So poly is not just adult but very adult, not M rated but X? Yes I do fear their getting hurt by "loverats" or becoming hardened and spiritually disconnected by the opposite paradigm of consumer culture commodifying young women and forgetting it should be  an expression of love at all.



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You avoided the question of how such people include or exclude newbies. Is there a roster or a regular meeting before this girl is allowed to include the new guy in the schedule. Doubtful. The old guys just knock on her door and it doesnt open as  shes busy.


Whoa.  Slow down and use both hands for typing, please - it's not that exciting.  People meet poly partners, fall in love and enter into relationships in exactly the same way as they have since parents stopped arranging marriages for their kids.

Since I dont detect any spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors in my quote, Ill assume that is a pornographer ridiculing masturbation. I believe the implied superiority of sex with other people over solo flights is evident also in the do as I say not as I do re monogamy.


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Are you seriously telling me this is not why young men frequently put a decal covering their entire back windshield of a girl raising her ass in the air? How do most 40 year old women feel seeing that if mrs UB still has a body like that perfect girl finds it disgusting?

I asked my wife.  She doesn't mind it at all.  What other people do, how other people choose to love and express themselves, is not ours to judge.   She wouldn't put it on her own car, but that's her choice.

That ass in the air decal is to do with expressing love and not objectification then.




Quote
No Freud. He did correctly predict Hitler would  have an anal fxation according to the teenage cousin or neice who had to squat over his face and poop until she killed herself. Heard about the suicide rate in the porn industry?

What has that got to do with the price of fish?  I understand the suicide rate is about the same as the people who make iPhones.  Is one more tragic than the other?

The people making I phones get 10c an hour for 20 hours straight, they cant flip burgers for 10$ an hour for 8 hours instead. Do you think they would be jumping out the window of apple if the got 10K for an hour once a week, like the starlet who has gone to multiple orifices and multiple partners for the  great money vs hours?


Quote
The radio tells us during daytime listening hours women need a hair free "meow" or "cha cha", so your daughters all want to wax at around 50$ a fortnight if you can afford it, just like your sons start shaving their face. When can I wear make-up mom, is now when can I get waxed (I dont want any boys telling their friends Im hairy and everyone at school laughing). Ok next time Im going in for a wax and vagazzle (rhinestones etc).

We obviously listen to different radio shows. 

Quote
As ashvin says dont use yourself as an example if unusual. The kids like the commercial stations that 99% are tuned into.

Which I interpret as saying, "don't speak up if you disagree with my dogma."  Most kids these days plug their ipods in and listen to that, or burn an MP3 of multiple albums. When they do listen to radio, I swear it's the perfect example of ADD.  Songs don't get to finish before they are tuning in another station.  If they catch one or two seconds out of an advert, I'd be surprised. Reaching the youth is a challenge for radio advertising.

Ok forget the ads, listen to the lyrics and watch the video clips hich now have a mature content warning.


Quote
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Actually, I don't switch it on in the first place.  No, we didn't tell the kids it was all rubbish.  We explained what we saw as the positive and the negative in any situation, and encouraged them to make informed choices.


So how does this apply to incessant ads about sexpo and hairfree treatment just for 1 example. What did you or would you do the first time or every time it plays and your daughters are 12 odd and growing hair and you believe bald is beautiful for beavers?


When our daughter was about that age, she noticed that her mom was shaven, so shaved herself, then didn't know what to do when she had an ingrowing hair, so she asked her mom.  We found it amusing and it opened the door for mom and daughter to have another chat about the birds and the bees. 

So I see you example as positive, not negative.  I know, I know, personal experiences should be dismissed when they disagree with religious dogma.

Which religion? The bible says a woman should let her hair be covering for her head is about all I know in any religion. Believe it or not parents who believe in monogamy and commitment have kids who go through sex ed class in school and their parents also talk to them about sex and dating. I am talking about constant explicit bombardment.  Although we  do tell our kids to avoid doing damaging and demeaning things to themselves, rather than warn them its dangerous and you can end up like the starlets story if you are not mature eough but still is ok.

I do not really belong to any religion but see spiritual cfs where I read it. I choose not to ignore the end times predictions across all major religions significantly focussing on sexual excess and its social and spiritual effects as a sign of the times.

btw the seat of the soul is generally argued  between the heart or the brain, you seem to suggest its the muscles since the soul is there when theres movement. You suggest this is is apparent knowledge from ancient religions, when movement was apparent through ripples or kicks felt on the belly, not an ultrasound. Out of date religious belief is acceptable where its convenient.


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Yes, it is exploitation.  How much access to porn do those third-world villages have?  i think we agree that exploitation is a global, endemic problem.  We disagree as to the part liberal sexual morality plays in the overall picture.

Ive commented elsewhere when  the worldwide news of gangrape came up in India not so long ago, this was a new development due to softcore porn ads introduced on liberal bollywood TV and the iphone epidemic sharing porn clips. This confuses them and makes women all sex objects not respect objects. House girls go to cities not just villages. The majority of men do not abuse them. Those who do are in no question it is wrong by their religion. My point referencing them was to Eddie that they cant get jobs elsewhere like starlets in the west so are in fact exploited whereas women in the west choosing sex/porn industry for more money for less hours are not victims of exploitation.

Gang rapes occur in the US, perpetrated by people who know it is wrong by their religion too. 

I think the answer is education, not further religious oppression.
[/quote]

WTF?  :icon_mrgreen: LOL

WHD

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #126 on: November 22, 2013, 08:31:00 PM »
A moneyed man does not complain that the prostitute sees other people, but that is not his ideal. That is what he can get.  The other young men who do not have money for this,  still accept the poly situation about as willingly as you would or the trick does. Its less than a consolation prize its a booby prize.

You appear to be projecting a lot of baggage on people you don't know, lifestyles you've no exposure to.



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Of course you would blame yourself and you would be sad allright. Men not anywhere near as gushing kill themselves on a scale with tobacco and road death. Very progress ive.

 Anothe extreme outlier I would suggest in the woman probably told to try and resolve the marriage abuse without immediately resorting to abuse. Note that most funding collection for church charities now focus very much on domestic abuse. Have you not seen the church based charities run womens refuges and DV services?[/color]

Yes, but I have only seen it on the liberal end of the spectrum, not the end in bed with big business and neo-feudalism. 


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You know porn.  In the scenes between 2 people from before there was some scene of wooing and foreplay. In the multiple partners porn this is not so. I could only imagine wooing in the attempt to compete against the other partners. This is of course money mixed with sex. sex commoditized. Again,  new guy supposedly does not learn this girl is into multiple men and think "mmmm nymphomaniac easy" he thinks roses and composing love poems?

Poly women (and men) run into those attitudes all the time.  The quickly correct any misconceptions, with a kick  in the balls if necessary. The ones who don't realize these women are empowered, and the sad guys probably continue to troll dating sites, looking for a fantasy, portrayed by the porn industry, that does not exist.  A sad situation, but it's not the most harmful fantasy in the world today.

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Yes, unemployment is right for some. If you can run below the radar, good for you.

So these young people who took on 600Kdebt and did 6 years college were really just loafers. This is how your whole right for some, but not for me meme runs.[/color]

Interesting assumption.  How is people who chose to run below the radar loafers?  Is that how you see Eustice Conway or Guy McPherson?  Neither have jobs in the conventional sense.   How about Lucid dreams, he has explicitly stated more than once that he wants out of the matrix?  That's "unemployed" in economic terms.   

Not for me?

100% wrong, mate.  I yearn for the day when I can say "I am unemployed" - not because I cannot find a job, but because we don't need one, we're self sufficient. All external earnings would be part of the community and the most effective legal vehichle standing between me and the taxman.  That's why I support the SUN project, it's goals are in harmony with ours. 


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Lol.  I've actually heard a lady use that line.
]
But is the man listening thinking "lady"? look at the evidence in the porn among other evidence to the contary.


That depends on whether his mummy raised him properly or whether someone else needs to inculcate those lessons. 


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Are you describing your thought process, or your fear of the thought processes of the young men who may approach your daughters? I ask because while a approve of the poly lifestyle, it's not what I'd want for our kids until they are emotionally mature to handle it.

So poly is not just adult but very adult, not M rated but X? Yes I do fear their getting hurt by "loverats" or becoming hardened and spiritually disconnected by the opposite paradigm of consumer culture commodifying young women and forgetting it should be  an expression of love at all.

It requires emotional as well as physical maturity.  Our daughter is wise enough to know it's not right for her, our son is more interested in computer games than girls    :o

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Whoa.  Slow down and use both hands for typing, please - it's not that exciting.  People meet poly partners, fall in love and enter into relationships in exactly the same way as they have since parents stopped arranging marriages for their kids.

Since I dont detect any spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors in my quote, Ill assume that is a pornographer ridiculing masturbation. I believe the implied superiority of sex with other people over solo flights is evident also in the do as I say not as I do re monogamy.

Correct, it was an attempt at humor towards the flights of fantasy your mind seems to be taking with this subject.

Not superiority, just an observation of how much this topic seems to ... excite you.

Not quite, "Do as I say" since I approve, I don't recommend it.  I advocate tolerance of other lifestyles, and not assuming that the driving factors are in the situation are the darker angles of the puritanical religousity that is dominant in America.. 


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That ass in the air decal is to do with expressing love and not objectification then.

Bad taste is not a serious issue in our world view.


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The people making I phones get 10c an hour for 20 hours straight, they cant flip burgers for 10$ an hour for 8 hours instead. Do you think they would be jumping out the window of apple if the got 10K for an hour once a week, like the starlet who has gone to multiple orifices and multiple partners for the  great money vs hours?

Okay, so porn stars are exercising a choice that the people exploited elsewhere do not have, I can accept that. If a person chooses to work an afternoon for a large paycheck, how is that bad?  You admit they have the $ 10 a hour burger job opportunity, so this example shows "exploitation" and "liberal sexual morality may run hand-in-hand, but they are not the same thing.   


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Which I interpret as saying, "don't speak up if you disagree with my dogma."  Most kids these days plug their ipods in and listen to that, or burn an MP3 of multiple albums. When they do listen to radio, I swear it's the perfect example of ADD.  Songs don't get to finish before they are tuning in another station.  If they catch one or two seconds out of an advert, I'd be surprised. Reaching the youth is a challenge for radio advertising.
]


Ok forget the ads, listen to the lyrics and watch the video clips hich now have a mature content warning.

Teenagers.  I hear it a lot, and when we're chilling out, they usually pick the music.  some of it bothers me.  Some of it is powerful and emotive.  I originally listen to it to relate, but I find some of it pretty nice.   

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I do not really belong to any religion but see spiritual cfs where I read it. I choose not to ignore the end times predictions across all major religions significantly focussing on sexual excess and its social and spiritual effects as a sign of the times.

Concentrated in religions that use sex as a means to control the population. 

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btw the seat of the soul is generally argued  between the heart or the brain, you seem to suggest its the muscles since the soul is there when theres movement. You suggest this is is apparent knowledge from ancient religions, when movement was apparent through ripples or kicks felt on the belly, not an ultrasound. Out of date religious belief is acceptable where its convenient.[/color]

No, nothing to do with the muscles.  It's actually the brain developing and nerves firing for the first time. 

The historical basis for detecting first movement was detailed in William Blackstone at the end of the 29th century; children lost oraborted before that (we have herbal recipes that will do the trick) tended to not to be a fully formed fetus; "fully formed" being the definition of life in the Septuagint translation of Exodus, if we want to use "convenient religious belief.

How many ultrasound machines in your preps?  We have two in our garage.  Old models, but still working. And three generation of women who can work them in our family, my wife being the middle one.   Access to the technology does not change my belief in when a soul passes through the veil to our Realm, and becomes incarnate among us.



Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #127 on: November 23, 2013, 02:12:11 AM »
A moneyed man does not complain that the prostitute sees other people, but that is not his ideal. That is what he can get.  The other young men who do not have money for this,  still accept the poly situation about as willingly as you would or the trick does. Its less than a consolation prize its a booby prize.

You appear to be projecting a lot of baggage on people you don't know, lifestyles you've no exposure to.


  I do not know the same people you know, however I know plenty of people, and the results are plain.  If you have a vested interest in not recognising any damage caused by promoting promiscuity, that may qualify as baggage in my book.




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Of course you would blame yourself and you would be sad allright. Men not anywhere near as gushing kill themselves on a scale with tobacco and road death. Very progress ive.

 Anothe extreme outlier I would suggest in the woman probably told to try and resolve the marriage abuse without immediately resorting to abuse. Note that most funding collection for church charities now focus very much on domestic abuse. Have you not seen the church based charities run womens refuges and DV services?[/color]

Yes, but I have only seen it on the liberal end of the spectrum, not the end in bed with big business and neo-feudalism. 

I thought it was liberals (by the american use of the word) who accuse conservatives of backward religious attitude. So tax dollars levied by your govt and tendered to service providers fore womens refuge services via church based organizations are tainted, thereby we maintain that religious dogma is mysogyny.
Meanwhile we are very pure in not using any govt paid earnings to doomstead unless it is a tax deductible charity somehow not in bed with big business and neo feudalism.



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You know porn.  In the scenes between 2 people from before there was some scene of wooing and foreplay. In the multiple partners porn this is not so. I could only imagine wooing in the attempt to compete against the other partners. This is of course money mixed with sex. sex commoditized. Again,  new guy supposedly does not learn this girl is into multiple men and think "mmmm nymphomaniac easy" he thinks roses and composing love poems?

Poly women (and men) run into those attitudes all the time.  The quickly correct any misconceptions, with a kick  in the balls if necessary. The ones who don't realize these women are empowered, and the sad guys probably continue to troll dating sites, looking for a fantasy, portrayed by the porn industry, that does not exist.  A sad situation, but it's not the most harmful fantasy in the world today.

I thought the normal course of everyday life where poly relationships form was really sex hookup websites. You have confirmed that. You sould also see that waht you call empowering women and the sad situation of men go hand in hand which is what I have been trying to point out. You do not need to bring in religion to see it, although all religions describe it as symptomatic of end times.  Do I need to point out exactly how empowered these women will be when tshtf, and the reasons for needing A man re-emerge. Men on the make are likely to recognise a woman who is taken as off limits, but one who has many partners will be treated to running into that attitude as YES you WILL make room for a few more. I doubt the current crop of emasculated fuckbuddy/bootycalls would defend her honour (dont blush those are the words in  parlance). The problem with porn promoting fantasies that dont exist is when groups of young men get an opportunity to take out their cameraphones and shoot some of their own. Lots of it in afghanistan and iraq. I see this as a result of commodification of it by marketing again. 
.

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Yes, unemployment is right for some. If you can run below the radar, good for you.

So these young people who took on 600Kdebt and did 6 years college were really just loafers. This is how your whole right for some, but not for me meme runs.[/color]

Interesting assumption.  How is people who chose to run below the radar loafers?  Is that how you see Eustice Conway or Guy McPherson?  Neither have jobs in the conventional sense.   How about Lucid dreams, he has explicitly stated more than once that he wants out of the matrix?  That's "unemployed" in economic terms. 

I said to start with that, older guys could expect the american dream including a job especially if they got qualifications as well as they could expect a wife, a monogomous wife, even a virgin.  I said today that young men could rack up huge student debt  and get a qualification and still get no american dream, no job and no faithful wife just demoralised despiritualised casualsex sold to them by msm bombardment. Just as you suggest that they are very happy accepting sharing a woman they would not be happy having no job and a lot of debt, ie they would want both elements of the american dream. You then suggested that unemployment was right for some being flying under the radar, just as sharing a woman was right for some. Somehow the entire generation who studied to become an accountant or lawyer or whatever suit and tie profession they qualified in are now like euastace conway. Come off it, to quote the song "bust a move": If you got no job and you got no car, then you got no woman and there you are.

Not for me?

100% wrong, mate.  I yearn for the day when I can say "I am unemployed" - not because I cannot find a job, but because we don't need one, we're self sufficient. All external earnings would be part of the community and the most effective legal vehic





 the people who wanted to finish this or that before heading out of the WTC. Lots wife was too attached to sodom and gomorrah and left it too late, possibly in this current incarnation, 10 people making 100K a year each in porn still waiting is the same. If I had waited until now to start steading I would have saved up about 80K more than I had when I quit and left a few months ago, and I am just 1 not several incomes. You should set a deadline by date not dollar figure.


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Lol.  I've actually heard a lady use that line.
]
But is the man listening thinking "lady"? look at the evidence in the porn among other evidence to the contary.


That depends on whether his mummy raised him properly or whether someone else needs to inculcate those lessons.

Single parent family, series of stepfathers is a predictor of all poor outcomes including addictions and incarceration. Married parents correlates with better success in all areas including adjustment. The girl with several boyfriends is probably not the one that goes home to meet mum, as mum is unlikely to approve too often, just not that openminded.


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Are you describing your thought process, or your fear of the thought processes of the young men who may approach your daughters? I ask because while a approve of the poly lifestyle, it's not what I'd want for our kids until they are emotionally mature to handle it.

So poly is not just adult but very adult, not M rated but X? Yes I do fear their getting hurt by "loverats" or becoming hardened and spiritually disconnected by the opposite paradigm of consumer culture commodifying young women and forgetting it should be  an expression of love at all.

It requires emotional as well as physical maturity.  Our daughter is wise enough to know it's not right for her, our son is more interested in computer games than girls    :o

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Whoa.  Slow down and use both hands for typing, please - it's not that exciting.  People meet poly partners, fall in love and enter into relationships in exactly the same way as they have since parents stopped arranging marriages for their kids.

Since I dont detect any spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors in my quote, Ill assume that is a pornographer ridiculing masturbation. I believe the implied superiority of sex with other people over solo flights is evident also in the do as I say not as I do re monogamy.

Correct, it was an attempt at humor towards the flights of fantasy your mind seems to be taking with this subject.

Not superiority, just an observation of how much this topic seems to ... excite you.

Not quite, "Do as I say" since I approve, I don't recommend it.  I advocate tolerance of other lifestyles, and not assuming that the driving factors are in the situation are the darker angles of the puritanical religousity that is dominant in America.. 

I guess there is no believable scenario you could concoct to make it seem anything other than ridiculous, even for a sex story editor. You are too focused on imagining the erection your writing instigates it seems. I actually hate doing this but I have a moral obligation and you have redeeming qualties. Since you offered no example of how such an arrangement originates or adapts I am left with only The legend of King Arthur, sir Lancelot and Gwenhyfar as anything I could conceive and try to adapt that to folk


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That ass in the air decal is to do with expressing love and not objectification then.

Bad taste is not a serious issue in our world view.


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The people making I phones get 10c an hour for 20 hours straight, they cant flip burgers for 10$ an hour for 8 hours instead. Do you think they would be jumping out the window of apple if the got 10K for an hour once a week, like the starlet who has gone to multiple orifices and multiple partners for the  great money vs hours?

Okay, so porn stars are exercising a choice that the people exploited elsewhere do not have, I can accept that. If a person chooses to work an afternoon for a large paycheck, how is that bad?  You admit they have the $ 10 a hour burger job opportunity, so this example shows "exploitation" and "liberal sexual morality may run hand-in-hand, but they are not the same thing.   

 I believe that when large pictures of such girls with their ass in the air are bombarded onto young girls, they think its going to be acceptable. But yeah I agree they have a choice. How is that bad, I raised it in relation to suicides remember.


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Which I interpret as saying, "don't speak up if you disagree with my dogma."  Most kids these days plug their ipods in and listen to that, or burn an MP3 of multiple albums. When they do listen to radio, I swear it's the perfect example of ADD.  Songs don't get to finish before they are tuning in another station.  If they catch one or two seconds out of an advert, I'd be surprised. Reaching the youth is a challenge for radio advertising.
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Ok forget the ads, listen to the lyrics and watch the video clips hich now have a mature content warning.

Teenagers.  I hear it a lot, and when we're chilling out, they usually pick the music.  some of it bothers me.  Some of it is powerful and emotive.  I originally listen to it to relate, but I find some of it pretty nice.   

"Lick my lollipop " comes up a lot in lyrics I notice. The kids all discussing who is an illuminati and all their symbols, has nothing to do with any of it. Son into rap that swears a bit but serious themes, and daughter currently into bob marley. I dont turn it off until "stick it in your mouth" etc comes on if they dont do so first, it embarrases them. Their mom thinks even eminem is innapropriate.

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I do not really belong to any religion but see spiritual cfs where I read it. I choose not to ignore the end times predictions across all major religions significantly focussing on sexual excess and its social and spiritual effects as a sign of the times.

Concentrated in religions that use sex as a means to control the population. 

Only to avoid what we have here now. They all predicted it as a given outcome. Not be good OR ELSE there will be  an end. Rather, despite you being  moral and enjoying its benefits now, thousands of years in the future that will be lost. That does not seem to work. Perhaps if they could foretell what was coming and associated it with spiritual disconnectedness, they deserve a little more credit. Satanism involving as much sexual liberty as you could concieve makes it seem maybe its not about control to me.

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btw the seat of the soul is generally argued  between the heart or the brain, you seem to suggest its the muscles since the soul is there when theres movement. You suggest this is is apparent knowledge from ancient religions, when movement was apparent through ripples or kicks felt on the belly, not an ultrasound. Out of date religious belief is acceptable where its convenient.[/color]

No, nothing to do with the muscles.  It's actually the brain developing and nerves firing for the first time. 

The historical basis for detecting first movement was detailed in William Blackstone at the end of the 29th century; children lost oraborted before that (we have herbal recipes that will do the trick) tended to not to be a fully formed fetus; "fully formed" being the definition of life in the Septuagint translation of Exodus, if we want to use "convenient religious belief.

How many ultrasound machines in your preps?  We have two in our garage.  Old models, but still working. And three generation of women who can work them in our family, my wife being the middle one.   Access to the technology does not change my belief in when a soul passes through the veil to our Realm, and becomes incarnate among us.

You did say movement, not electrochemical transmission. And the 29th Century is 800 years away.

You have here pretty much all my thoughts on the matter already, I hope it was worth the time to get someone thinking. There is needed more than physical preps to make  it, you need more than luck. Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 04:47:53 AM by Uncle Bob »
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Chained to the Cross: Paradise by the Dashboard Light
« Reply #128 on: November 23, 2013, 06:19:04 AM »
Did you just admit that Paul was the malevolent spirit"?  there may be more agreement between us than I thought.  First UB, now you.  If christianity abandoned Paul and hateful interpretation of the OT, keeping only the gospels and encouraging people to follow Christ's example, I might actually regain some respect for it.
Aw, heck, I might as well weigh in on this.  No, Paul was not the malevolent spirit.  However, it has always bugged me, why is it that in all other post-Resurrection encounters, Jesus appeared as a flesh-and-blood human, but on the road to Damascus, Paul encountered a bright light?  Lucifer means bearer-of-light, after all.  I don't reject Paul out-of-hand, but I am skeptical, and if something he said isn't in line with the gospels, I don't accept it.

I put it in quotes because, no, I don't believe he was the malevolent spirit. I wanted to contrast that rather silly assertion with what Paul actually says about women (and other oppressed people of his day), which was a revolutionary thing to say, i.e. that all races, genders and classes of people are equally dignified in Christ. I believe that Paul was the earliest, most comprehensive and most successful Champion of the Faith.

Although Luke's initial account does not explicitly say Jesus appeared to Paul in his glorified body, other parts of his account and Paul's own testimony make it clear that he had witnessed Jesus in this form.

When this issue of "Paulianity" first came up awhile back, I asked Haniel to show me one way in which Paul's writings are not consistent with Jesus' teachings. Still waiting...

As for the OT, it must be understood in terms of historically-rooted types, shadows and prophecies of Jesus.

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2013, 10:10:24 AM »
UB It seems you're getting caught up in porn as if it were REALITY. It's theatre. Like ultimate fighting. There are people who think it's more than that, but they will learn. Also porn is not erotica. I've enjoyed going to the ballet to watch hot anorexics lift a leg in the air while an equally hot male dancer from behind gently presses his cod piece up against the mound beneath her tutu, then raises her into the air before lowering her again onto his... Oh la la, I'm getting hot flashes. I say viva la culture. However twerking is hard work. I threw my back out. (never again)

Here are some porn Statistics:
  • Men are 543% more likely to look at porn than females.
  • Those who are politically more liberal are 19% more likely to look at porn.
  • Those who have ever committed adultery are 218% more likely to look at porn.
  • Those who have ever engaged in paid sex are 270% more likely to look at porn.
  • Those who are happily married are 61% less likely to look at porn.
  • Those with teen children at home are 45% less likely to look at porn.
  • Regular church attenders are 26% less likely to look at porn than non-attenders
  • those self-identified as “fundamentalists” are 91% more likely to look at porn.
  :laugh:

http://www.covenanteyes.com/2013/02/19/pornography-statistics/



I prefer Dan Savage for a realistic look at what actual people, not porn websites say about the state of sex in society. It is rather more entertaining than the aggressive nonsense you are seeing online - because it's real and awkward and disappointing and filled with the realities of sex life.


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'I'm a heterosexual guy in my early 20s. I've been dating my girlfriend for about six months, and we've been having some fights recently. The problem: I have a high sex drive in comparison to hers. I want to be intimate on a weekly basis (at least!), and she's told me that she's more of a once-every-three-weeks-or-so person. I'm trying not to put pressure on her. I don't want her to feel uncomfortable—she's a virgin (no penetration), and the thought of the pain of that first time scares her a bit. That said, physical intimacy with her—developing that bond, even without intercourse—is important to me and a key part of what I believe is a healthy relationship. I do my best to be understanding, but I'm not sure how to bridge this gap.- Love Is Building Intimacy During Outset

While it's great that you're understanding of your girlfriend's sensitivities, LIBIDO, and while it's commendable that you view nonpenetrative sex as fulfilling, you're running the risk of "understanding" her into a relationship that makes you both unhappy. Because someone who wants sex multiple times per week will eventually be made miserable by someone who wants sex far less than once a month (which is what the "or so" at the end of "once-every-three-weeks-or-so" means), and vice versa—being with you will make your girlfriend miserable in the long run, too. '
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=18262632
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Besides it seems you are talking mainly from the male perspective here and it takes two to tango. So where is 50 percent of the population in this equation? Where are the ladies at? They are out looking for 'The ONE'. 60 million girls agree, he looks like Justin Beiber.

Women are willing to put the time into 'improving' the man. 'Cause the ladies know there is always room for improvement. Fortunately there's an app for that, LOL:


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“When you 'Guygle' a guy, (get it Google, Guy-gle?!) you don’t want to know if he voted Republican or what he wrote a paper about in college,” Ms. Chong said. “You want to know if mothers like him. Does he have good manners? Is he sweet?”

Men who do find reason for complaint can pile on the blue hashtags, or have their profile removed by request to the company. But Ms. Chong has the grand hope that Lulu will accomplish what generations of women have not been able to do: change the opposite sex.

“There’s an element of behavior modification that we’re hearing and seeing,” she said. “When we do sessions at colleges, we ask guys, ‘Have any of you changed since Lulu launched?’ Hands go up.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/fashion/social-networking-App-allows-women-to-rate-men.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0
------------------------------

What's the saying:

Women want all things in one man
Men want one thing in all women


Offline Ashvin

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Re: Chained to the Cross: Paradise by the Dashboard Light
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2013, 10:38:58 AM »
I would say, "implied by your religious sensibilities" rather than the business itself.

It is the filters of modern consumer culture that allow you to ignore the otherwise obvious humiliation and degradation involved in the porn industry for both men and women.


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I appreciate you being consistent on exploitation.

Thank you, but unfortunately I can't say the same for you...


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I think it is OK and NO BIG BEAL to go around satisfying any and all sexual desires - provided all involved are consenting adults.  It is up to the individual to make the value judgement. I believe in keeping the government, and prudish deities, out of my bedroom.

Yes it is up to individuals to make moral decisions, and, as individuals, one of our decisions should be to advocate against a mentality that is so obviously exploitative and destructive of human life. Our decision should not be to say it is NO BIG DEAL and help the corporate fascist powers line their pockets with our sexual addictions.


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So you don't think actual Christian conservatives are against Sexual liberalism?  It's the corporations lumping them together?  The answer, rather than saying, "this is nothing to be ashamed of, stand up for your rights," is further oppression?

No, Biblical Christians are against sexual liberalism. The corporatocracy, otoh, is in favor of convincing people they have a "right" to do whatever they want with their bodies, because that simply makes for more products to sell them.

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Yes.  That magical metaphysical transformation is the arrival of the soul into a developing body.  From a mass of cells independent movement comes (hence the name).  People have believed that for far longer than the pro-life movement has been around, and for many centuries it was the measure against which taking herbs to abort a pregnancy was seen as acceptable.

This has view has been debunked, and I shudder when I think of the millions of human lives that have been lost due to people's blind faith in bad science (among other things):

http://www.equip.org/articles/the-right-to-life-when-does-life-begin/##christian-books-1
Quickening has traditionally referred to the first movement of the unborn felt by her mother. It was at this time in fetal development that some ancient, medieval and common-law scholars thought it could be proved that the unborn was “alive” or that the soul had entered her body. Not having access to the biological facts we currently possess, they reasoned that prior to quickening it could not be proved that the unborn entity was “alive” or fully human. Current biology, which has conclusively demonstrated that a biologically living human individual is present from conception, has decisively refuted this notion of “quickening,” just as current astronomy has refuted the geocentric solar system. Now, does this mean that our ancestors were not pro-life? Not at all. Legal scholar and theologian John Warwick Montgomery notes that when our ancient, medieval, and common-law forefathers talked about quickening as the beginning of life, “they were just identifying the first evidence of life they could conclusively detect…They were saying that as soon as you had life, there must be protection. Now we know that life starts at the moment of conception with nothing superadded.”28 Hence, to be consistent with contemporary science, legal protection must be extended to the unborn entity from the moment of conception. Furthermore, we now know that the ability to feel the unborn’s movement is contingent upon the amount of the mother’s body fat. It seems silly to say that one’s preborn humanness is contingent upon whether one is fortunate to have been conceived in a body that frequents aerobics classes.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 10:41:05 AM by Ashvin »

 

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