AuthorTopic: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution  (Read 25545 times)

Offline Ashvin

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2013, 05:29:57 AM »
I often wonder why, if there is a creator god, it created the universe in a way that makes it discoverable (or apparently discoverable) to parts of it which consider themselves intelligent. Why have creatures with inner workings that appear to have evolved, why have matter with atoms? And so on. But then again, god works in mysterious ways.

Addressing the second question first, who says the Universe has creatures with inner workings that appeared to have evolved? Only biologists over the last 150 or years or so, and that's not even accurate. Even atheist biologists say that life appears to be designed, but in reality it is not (according to their theories).

(it's interesting to note that non-biologist scientists, such as astronomers, cosmologists, physicists, etc., are much more open to intelligent design theories, i.e. the obvious appearance of design in the Universe is, in reality, design)

Your first question is a very interesting one to consider. I would frame it this way - if all of life evolved through unintelligent, undirected natural processes, then why did one part of that life happen to "evolve" with exactly the right capacities and in exactly the right time period at which the Universe it inhabits could be thoroughly investigated and "discovered"?

It makes great sense if, instead of unintelligent natural processes running the show, an Intelligent Designer was responsible for crafting intelligent life with the purpose that it should have the capacity to know and relate to him through his created order.

Offline Ashvin

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2013, 05:43:34 AM »
Have a problem considering Christianity a theory of sorts.

Christ lived, founded the religion. It blossomed into billions of followers. Has it's martyrs, saints, churches all over the world, members of the religion right here on the Diner.

Christianity is a fact in my book, our own distinct views on what happens after death are where the controversy comes in.

By Christianity, I mean the Christian FAITH (not a historical religious movement). The faith is not a fact. It is a committed belief to spiritual conclusions that arise from a set of historical and experiential facts.

You don't get Christianity by the mere existence of a 1st century Rabbi teaching people certain ideas and generating a lot of followers. You also need the claims to Messianic fulfillment, divinity, atonement for sin, a validation of those claims (via the Resurrection) and a hope for his final consummation of God's Kingdom (the second coming) to get a spiritual worldview that can call itself Christianity.

Offline Tony

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2013, 07:14:23 PM »
Addressing the second question first, who says the Universe has creatures with inner workings that appeared to have evolved? Only biologists over the last 150 or years or so, and that's not even accurate. Even atheist biologists say that life appears to be designed, but in reality it is not (according to their theories).
Hmm. I would have thought that it wasn't particularly controversial to state that life appears to have evolved. If you found the odd atheist biologist who thinks the life appears to have been designed, that doesn't mean that all biologists or all atheist biologists think that. It appears to have evolved because of features that can be traced back through other species, but maybe that's just my take. In any event that wasn't really the main thrust of my comment.
(it's interesting to note that non-biologist scientists, such as astronomers, cosmologists, physicists, etc., are much more open to intelligent design theories, i.e. the obvious appearance of design in the Universe is, in reality, design)
That seems to be another sweeping statement. I suppose you mean that you believe that there are some non-biologist scientists who seem to entertain the notion of intelligent design. I think, though, that any research to try to verify the notion will be hard to finance, since it would be a mightily difficult thing to verify.
Your first question is a very interesting one to consider. I would frame it this way - if all of life evolved through unintelligent, undirected natural processes, then why did one part of that life happen to "evolve" with exactly the right capacities and in exactly the right time period at which the Universe it inhabits could be thoroughly investigated and "discovered"?
Why do you think the last 200,000 years is "exactly the right time period" or that humans, over the last 200,000 years have had "exactly the right capacities" to investigate the matter. Regardless, it does seem as though at least one part of the universe currently has some capability (we can't know if it is the only part of the universe with such capability) to discover that there are inner workings of the universe, rather than it is just there. I find that doesn't fit well, to my mind, with the notion of a creator who wishes us to behave in a certain way that isn't discoverable by what we think of as a great way to discover things - science. Instead, increasing scientific knowledge has done away with much of the past need for a guiding hand from some other ethereal plane.
It makes great sense if, instead of unintelligent natural processes running the show, an Intelligent Designer was responsible for crafting intelligent life with the purpose that it should have the capacity to know and relate to him through his created order.
So, it makes sense if one imagines a certain intention on the part of a creator. But capacity isn't a purpose. To know and relate to the creator might be a purpose if it was a purpose that all humans have the capacity to achieve and have always had that capacity. It doesn't really make much sense if such a purpose is only attainable by some of the humans (in practical terms) who happen to be alive in a period that gave them incredible tools to investigate the inner workings of the universe, particularly the earth.

Offline JoeP

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2013, 07:37:54 PM »
Tony, I can tell we're on the same page (or close) on this topic.  But in case you didn't know already, the person you are engaging with will go forevah....like the energizer bunny.  Not kidding.  :icon_scratch:
just my straight shooting honest opinion

Offline Tony

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2013, 08:01:52 PM »
Tony, I can tell we're on the same page (or close) on this topic.  But in case you didn't know already, the person you are engaging with will go forevah....like the energizer bunny.  Not kidding.  :icon_scratch:
Oh yeah. If he's the same Ashvin that I think, I know we'd likely end up agreeing to disagree!

Offline RE

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #65 on: December 31, 2013, 09:48:10 PM »
Tony, I can tell we're on the same page (or close) on this topic.  But in case you didn't know already, the person you are engaging with will go forevah....like the energizer bunny.  Not kidding.  :icon_scratch:
Oh yeah. If he's the same Ashvin that I think, I know we'd likely end up agreeing to disagree!

Is there any other Ashvin in the Collapse Blogosphere?  It's Ashvin Pandurangi from The Automatic Earth.

RE
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Offline Tony

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #66 on: December 31, 2013, 10:41:01 PM »
Is there any other Ashvin in the Collapse Blogosphere?  It's Ashvin Pandurangi from The Automatic Earth.
RE
Yup, that's the one.

Offline RE

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #67 on: December 31, 2013, 11:00:34 PM »
Is there any other Ashvin in the Collapse Blogosphere?  It's Ashvin Pandurangi from The Automatic Earth.
RE
Yup, that's the one.

Well, you can forget about him agreeing to disagree on his Topics of Interest.  Anytime you make a post which hits his G-spot on these issues, you are bound to get a pretty copious response if he finds something in your perspective objectionable.  A particular thread may wear itself out, but the same ideas reappear all the time elsewhere, and the Biblical passages and Barfield quotes from Ka float on into shore again, like flotsam from the Sendai Quake on the shores of Malibu Beach.  LOL.  It's as predictable as the Tides turning.

RE
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Offline Tony

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #68 on: December 31, 2013, 11:04:58 PM »
Well, you can forget about him agreeing to disagree on his Topics of Interest.  Anytime you make a post which hits his G-spot on these issues, you are bound to get a pretty copious response if he finds something in your perspective objectionable.  A particular thread may wear itself out, but the same ideas reappear all the time elsewhere, and the Biblical passages and Barfield quotes from Ka float on into shore again, like flotsam from the Sendai Quake on the shores of Malibu Beach.  LOL.  It's as predictable as the Tides turning.

Probably true but, hey, I changed my mind about a lot of stuff, religion included, so who knows? However, I don't think that the behaviour you highlighted is particularly rare, for all manner of subjects by all manner of advocates.

Offline RE

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2013, 11:11:13 PM »
Well, you can forget about him agreeing to disagree on his Topics of Interest.  Anytime you make a post which hits his G-spot on these issues, you are bound to get a pretty copious response if he finds something in your perspective objectionable.  A particular thread may wear itself out, but the same ideas reappear all the time elsewhere, and the Biblical passages and Barfield quotes from Ka float on into shore again, like flotsam from the Sendai Quake on the shores of Malibu Beach.  LOL.  It's as predictable as the Tides turning.

Probably true but, hey, I changed my mind about a lot of stuff, religion included, so who knows? However, I don't think that the behaviour you highlighted is particularly rare, for all manner of subjects by all manner of advocates.

Time will tell, you can't predict such things with absolute certainty.  It ain't over till it's over.  lol.

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Offline WHD

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Re: 7 Reasons Why It's Easier for Humans to Believe in God Than Evolution
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2014, 08:48:31 AM »
Well, you can forget about him agreeing to disagree on his Topics of Interest.  Anytime you make a post which hits his G-spot on these issues, you are bound to get a pretty copious response if he finds something in your perspective objectionable.  A particular thread may wear itself out, but the same ideas reappear all the time elsewhere, and the Biblical passages and Barfield quotes from Ka float on into shore again, like flotsam from the Sendai Quake on the shores of Malibu Beach.  LOL.  It's as predictable as the Tides turning.

Probably true but, hey, I changed my mind about a lot of stuff, religion included, so who knows? However, I don't think that the behaviour you highlighted is particularly rare, for all manner of subjects by all manner of advocates.

Tony,

Well unless you are prepared to agree that evolution should be removed from science textbooks, you might want to reconsider getting into it with Ashvin. He is on the far right of the far right about that, and seeming too trend farther.

WHD

 

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