AuthorTopic: What's In a Name?  (Read 23097 times)

Offline GypsyMama

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2014, 10:28:39 AM »
Bonus points awarded if the kilt stays down, too :)

Offline luciddreams

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2014, 01:07:44 PM »

I don't think you understand exactly what I was saying. I'd like to make a clear distinction between real sexuality and sexual politics. I was talking about feminism, which is sexual politics. Male (and female) sexuality is another subject, which is where you're headed.

Maybe, but wouldn't sexuality drive the politics?  And why does sexuality need to be political?  I mean, men and women should be paid the same for the same work, and we should all be able to waste our times voting (I'm not so inclined).  Men who batter women should be battered themselves, and tar and feathered as well. 

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I could write ad nauseum about my views on sexuality, and some people here might  agree, and others wouldn't.  My views on male sexuality aren't too much different than yours. Men are mostly simpler than women, and testosterone driven.

I agree, which is why I think it's pretty simple.  But then there are exceptions to everything...like Androgyny.   



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Women are sometimes testosterone driven too, though. Testosterone drives libido in men and women.

Sure, but testosterone drives the need to kill shit in men due to much more of it.  Or generally destroy shit.  I know I'm simplifying a complex issue...maybe. 

I guess my view isn't much good for this conversation.  I just don't give a shit about politics in general.  I view women as equal to men...just different.  I think any other view comes from a place of ignorance, or stupidity, or some combination. 

But then, I'm not a women, so I've never had to deal with the issues generated by said ignorance and stupidity. 

Offline JRM

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2014, 11:02:29 AM »

Point is, men are men and women are women...for very scientific and known biochemical...otherwise known as hormone...reasons.

Gender is 94.73% cultural.  The chemical explanation falls apart not very far down the trail of inquiry.  Not everyone with testosterone goes around cutting heads off.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline luciddreams

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2014, 11:09:59 AM »

Point is, men are men and women are women...for very scientific and known biochemical...otherwise known as hormone...reasons.

Gender is 94.73% cultural.

94.73% huh?  So I'd like to see how you figured that exact percentage.

 
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The chemical explanation falls apart not very far down the trail of inquiry.  Not everyone with testosterone goes around cutting heads off.

Of course they don't.  I don't cut heads off...I mostly dig holes.  I'm just saying that testosterone translates as "fuck it or kill it."

Offline JRM

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2014, 11:25:04 AM »
94.73% huh?  So I'd like to see how you figured that exact percentage.

http://enbalatalks.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/maxwells-equation.jpg


 
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The chemical explanation falls apart not very far down the trail of inquiry.  Not everyone with testosterone goes around cutting heads off.

Of course they don't.  I don't cut heads off...I mostly dig holes.  I'm just saying that testosterone translates as "fuck it or kill it."

We're a lot more complex than that. As Eddie pointed out, even women have testosterone. And you gotta admit upon looking around at men--almost all of which have testosterone--there is a great deal of variety and difference.  Only a very small % of men go around with a "fuck it or kill it" attitude toward everything (thank goodness).

As for the claim about culture and gender. What I mean is mostly that what is considered to constitute masculinity and femininity varies widely both from culture to culture and from individual to individual within cultures.  So the very notion of gender is culturally decided.  And that's before we get to the matter of cultural conditioning. Once folks have an idea what they are to enculturate as gender, THEN comes the next step. (As explained in the provided long equation, above.)

My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Eddie

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2014, 12:26:24 PM »
Gender is 94.73% cultural.

And Ivory Soap is 99.44% pure. NOT!


what is considered to constitute masculinity and femininity varies widely both from culture to culture and from individual to individual within cultures.  So the very notion of gender is culturally decided.

My belief, based only on treating thousands of children, and raising four of my own, is that nature plays a very strong part in an individual's sexual behavior and identity. Culture and nurture no doubt play a part. Is it a deterministic part? I don't think so. Jmho, no equations.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:42:33 PM by Eddie »
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2014, 12:34:11 PM »
Gender is 94.73% cultural.
94.73% huh?  So I'd like to see how you figured that exact percentage.
85.4% of statistics are made up on the spot  :evil4:
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Offline JRM

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2014, 12:37:19 PM »

My belief, based only on treating thousands of children, and raising four of my own, is that nature plays a very strong part in an individual's sexual behavior and identity. Culture and nurture no doubt play a part. Is it a deterministic? part? I don't think so. Jmho, no equations.

Yeah, sexual orientation probably has a huge biological aspect to it.  But, as you pointed out yourself, gender and sexual orientation are two very different things.

And gender and biological sex are also two different things. Just as some folks are gay, some bi and some straight -- all on a spectrum -- so it seems to be with qualities we attribute to gender.  Some guys / gals fit the gender norms for their sex quite readily. Others appear to be far on the other end -- even if they are "cisgendered". And some guys and gals are right smack in the middle of the spectrum.

I guess my point is that we should appreciate difference, since it isn't going anywhere.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2014, 02:38:04 PM »
JRM
The sum of the some you speak of in individual and cultural differences ALWAYS amount to men being assigned the fighting first and foremost. This is not a greater capacity for agression however, only the physical expression. Females are 100% more verbal.
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: What's In a Name?
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2014, 04:05:48 PM »

My belief, based only on treating thousands of children, and raising four of my own, is that nature plays a very strong part in an individual's sexual behavior and identity. Culture and nurture no doubt play a part. Is it a deterministic? part? I don't think so. Jmho, no equations.

Yeah, sexual orientation probably has a huge biological aspect to it.  But, as you pointed out yourself, gender and sexual orientation are two very different things.

And gender and biological sex are also two different things. Just as some folks are gay, some bi and some straight -- all on a spectrum -- so it seems to be with qualities we attribute to gender.  Some guys / gals fit the gender norms for their sex quite readily. Others appear to be far on the other end -- even if they are "cisgendered". And some guys and gals are right smack in the middle of the spectrum.

I guess my point is that we should appreciate difference, since it isn't going anywhere.

So will you explain "cisgendered" in your own words please? 

I looked at the wiki explanation and became confused.  Basically you have a weiner and you realize it's a weiner and identify with it as being a male but you have no sexual preference? 

Like I said, I'm confused...please clarify.