AuthorTopic: Ukraine Civil War  (Read 93598 times)

Offline Surly1

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Ukraine Civil War
« on: January 28, 2014, 02:05:27 PM »
My best friend in life has spent a lot of time in eastern Europe and the Ukraine. He has kept me apprised of these. He told me he finds this situation especially compelling since he  was in Ukraine in May and very well understands the frustration of being ruled by a president who has twice been in jail - for robbery and for a mugging.

It was told to him that in Ukraine, people go into government to get rich.
Period.

It's ON in the Ukraine.


Ukrainian priests stand in the no man’s land facing protesters with Berkut special riot forces amassed behind them on Hrushevsky St. – Jan. 23, 2014


Berkut special riot forces and interior ministry forces amassing on Hrushevsky St. in Kiev facing a wall of tyre smoke put up by protesters to keep them at bay. January 23, 2014.

Ukrainian writer Yuri Andrukhovych on the situation in Ukraine



And a perspective from the other side as well.

Hell in Ukraine: Berkut officer says 18-year-old soldier crucified by protesters






Both sides striving to win the propaganda war.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 02:29:17 PM »
I was listening to a translated radio interview yesterday with a girl who protested and the pigs identified her then went and arrested her father for nothing. Then I thought of the dangers to opposition journalists in russia and the opposition leader who was formerly handsome then turned into a hideous green creature after they poisoned him like rasputin. Deeply dirty bizness over there.
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 02:45:44 PM »


Berkut special riot forces and interior ministry forces amassing on Hrushevsky St. in Kiev facing a wall of tyre smoke put up by protesters to keep them at bay. January 23, 2014.



Talk about entering the "Orwellian New World Bravely," as I have dubbed this period of time. 

Surly, that is hard to believe.  That picture is.  Hard to believe that dystopic fiction has become our reality.  I imagine that picture could be from Nazi Germany sometime during WW11.  Only the 21st century version. 

BTW, GM asked me, and I didn't know, what's going on in Ukraine?  I know we may sound disconnected...cause we are...I'm worried about fuck you shima and the climate...so I don't have time to concern myself with the tip of the geosocialpolitico clusterfuck spear any longer.  But I'm interested...wtf? 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 02:49:18 PM by luciddreams »

Offline RE

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Light Years: Men of Metal
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 04:31:53 PM »
I split this off from the Photography thread and moved it to Geopolitics.

The image of the cops lined up reminded me of the Animated Film "Light Years" or Men of Metal or Ghandahar (depends which release you saw).  Full version up on You Tube.  Worth watching if you have never seen it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/eucpelkpuiY?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/eucpelkpuiY?feature=player_detailpage</a>

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Offline RE

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Ukraine Freedom Fighters Bring Out the Medieval Artillery
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 05:20:31 PM »
OK, am I Nostradamus RE or WHAT?  How long have I been predicting this?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/arGF4d1-kPg?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/arGF4d1-kPg?feature=player_detailpage</a>

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Offline Ka

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 05:36:33 PM »
BTW, GM asked me, and I didn't know, what's going on in Ukraine?  I know we may sound disconnected...cause we are...I'm worried about fuck you shima and the climate...so I don't have time to concern myself with the tip of the geosocialpolitico clusterfuck spear any longer.  But I'm interested...wtf?

What's going on is a severe difference between two segments of the Ukrainian population. The European Union has been trying to get Ukraine into its orbit, while Russia has been trying to get it back into its. The Ukrainian population in the eastern part of the country (which is largely Russian speaking) wants Russia, while the western part wants EU. The current protests arose because a couple of months ago, the president, Yanukovych, was scheduled to meet with EU folk to talk about heading EU-wards. Russia countered with an offer of $15 billion, which Ukraine badly needs to pay off debts. Plus an energy deal. Yanukovych accepted the Russian deal and stood up the Europeans. This also gets him off the hook of cleaning up his government, and releasing an imprisoned former president, that the EU was demanding.

So the EU-friendlies are protesting. Also at the huge corruption of the current government, though to make sense of that is the usual murky business. It would appear that the oligarchs running things behind the scenes are also split EU/Russia-wise.

Offline RE

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 10:35:38 PM »
BTW, GM asked me, and I didn't know, what's going on in Ukraine?  I know we may sound disconnected...cause we are...I'm worried about fuck you shima and the climate...so I don't have time to concern myself with the tip of the geosocialpolitico clusterfuck spear any longer.  But I'm interested...wtf?

What's going on is a severe difference between two segments of the Ukrainian population. The European Union has been trying to get Ukraine into its orbit, while Russia has been trying to get it back into its. The Ukrainian population in the eastern part of the country (which is largely Russian speaking) wants Russia, while the western part wants EU. The current protests arose because a couple of months ago, the president, Yanukovych, was scheduled to meet with EU folk to talk about heading EU-wards. Russia countered with an offer of $15 billion, which Ukraine badly needs to pay off debts. Plus an energy deal. Yanukovych accepted the Russian deal and stood up the Europeans. This also gets him off the hook of cleaning up his government, and releasing an imprisoned former president, that the EU was demanding.

So the EU-friendlies are protesting. Also at the huge corruption of the current government, though to make sense of that is the usual murky business. It would appear that the oligarchs running things behind the scenes are also split EU/Russia-wise.

This is a bit of an oversimplification that is being promoted in the MSM, along with the idea of Fracturing Ukraine into 2 States, North Korea-South Korea style.  In reality, in the Western Half of the country there are significant number of folks who want to take Ruskie money, and in the East just because they speak Ruskie not all the population wants to be back under the Thumb of Mother Russia.

Ukraine has 2 main Bargaining Chips, 1 is that it still has decent arable land for growing grains, the other is that it is a Conduit for pipelines bringing Ruskie NG across to western Europe.  Leadership is Corrupt on both sides, and each side wants to go with whoever will make them the Richest.

The Western population still buys the Myth if they join up with Brussel Sprouts and the EU, they will get all the toys and bennies of being a Western state.  Of course they won't except in the very short term if the IMF fronts up some Loans for them to buy them off.  As of right now though, Vlad the Impaler is outbidding the Brussel Sprouts.  Vlad of course is not offering Free Money here though, essentially he wants to buy and control all Ukraine Food Production and control their conduit fees for energy transported to the West.

The population is fractured and being pitted against each other.  They will lose no matter which side they end up lining up with.

Basically, this is Migration of the same sort of shit going on down in MENA, and Ukraine has the Honor of being the first European state to fall into this kind of battle.  I suspect you will see similar happen soon enough in the other dividing states like Hungary and Poland as well.

RE
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 10:38:02 PM by RE »
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Offline RE

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Ukraine Civil War: The Socialist Spin
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2014, 01:40:06 AM »
As Ukrainian Regime Totters, Oligarchs Call for Talks with Right-wing Opposition

By Alex Lantier
Global Research, January 28, 2014
World Socialist Web Site

Amid spreading protests and occupations of state buildings in Ukraine, the country’s business oligarchs met and called on President Viktor Yanukovych to negotiate with leaders of the right-wing opposition backed by the European Union (EU) and the United States. The call came in the lead-up to an extraordinary session of the Ukrainian parliament and EU-Russia talks in Brussels, expected to focus on Ukraine, that are both occurring today.

With protests continuing in Kiev, centered on Independence Square, the Yanukovych regime is dissolving in the traditionally more pro-European western Ukraine. Thousands of protesters have seized nine regional administrations in western Ukraine, with three—Lviv, Lutsk, and Ternopil—declaring allegiance to a new “People’s Rada” government based in Lviv.

Protests have also spread to southern and eastern Ukraine, traditionally loyal to Yanukovych’s ruling Party of the Regions, in the Zaporizhzhiya, Dnipropetrovsk, and Kherson regions.

Most of the street battles around Independence Square, like the takeovers of regional administrations, were waged by only a few thousand protesters, mobilized by the fascistic, anti-Semitic Svoboda party and Right Sector group. The ability of such forces to destabilize Ukraine testifies to the unpopularity and the narrow social base of Yanukovych’s reactionary regime.

Broader social layers have also attended opposition protests to express anger at killings by the notorious Berkut riot police and opposition to the regime’s new, draconian anti-protest law. On Sunday, thousands attended the funeral in Kiev of Mikhail Zhizvensky, 25, a Right Sector member killed in clashes with police. Videos have also appeared showing riot police stripping protesters naked.

While the Yanukovych regime is teetering on the brink of collapse, the opposition cannot easily take power. It faces broad hostility in Russian-speaking parts of southern and eastern Ukraine. Pro-government protests were reported in recent days in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine’s industrial heartland, and in the Crimea, Kharkiv, Uzhgorod and Luhansk regions.

The Council of Ministers met yesterday to discuss the feasibility of resolving the crisis with a mass crackdown. It proposed increasing the number of riot troops six-fold, to 30,000, and buying more ammunition for Berkut and Griffon police units.

According to the BBC, however, the Council concluded that for now, “Nobody knows where the sympathies lie of each and every one of the country’s soldiers, interior troops, riot police…If authorities do choose to crack down, and they don’t have enough forces on their side, then, instead of restoring order to the country, it would very likely spell the end of Mr. Yanukovych.”

Under these conditions, a group of Ukrainian oligarchs met yesterday to call for reconciliation between the opposition and the regime. The leader—Rinat Akhmetov, a Yanukovych backer whose $12 billion fortune makes him Ukraine’s richest man—then issued a statement on the web site of his System Capital Management (SCM) group.

It read, “It is only by peaceful action that the political crisis can be resolved. Any use of force and weapons is unacceptable. With this scenario, there will be no winners in Ukraine, only victims and losers. But most importantly, the use of force will not help to find a way out.”

The regime and the opposition obeyed the oligarchs. In the evening, top Yanukovych staff met with opposition leaders: Vitali Klitschko of the Udar Party, Fatherland Party leader Arseniy Yatseniuk, and Svoboda’s Oleh Tyahnibok.

Speaking to the Guardian, Klitschko praised the oligarchs and boasted of his close ties to them. “In private conversations, all the oligarchs support the idea of the rule of law,” he said. “The leaders change, the rules change, and the lack of set rules means business groups can’t be sure they will keep their assets.” This statement points to the anti-worker agenda driving both the Western-backed opposition and the regime. Both are dedicated to defending the reactionary capitalist oligarchy that emerged from the restoration of capitalism in the USSR in 1991. The conflict between Yanukovych and the opposition is only over which geo-strategic orientation—to Moscow or, for the opposition, to the EU—will more reliably preserve the “assets” monopolized by the oligarchs.

The current political crisis and opposition protests emerged last year, when Ukraine faced the possibility of state bankruptcy over a $15 billion debt to international banks. Yanukovych first negotiated deep austerity measures as part of a deal to establish closer ties to the EU. His decision to back away from the deal and seek financial aid from Russia—fearing the social explosion that mass cuts to energy subsidies and social programs would create in the working class—triggered opposition protests.

Both the pro-EU opposition and the Yanukovych regime are united, however, in their insistence that the international banks will be repaid, and that the costs will be borne not by billionaire oligarchs, but by working people. As different factions of the ruling elite plan for violence and crackdowns—by the opposition’s fascistic goon squads or the regime’s security forces—they are united in their hostility to the working class, and fear of its opposition to their austerity agenda.

This situation is an indictment of the restoration of capitalism in the USSR in 1991 and of the reactionary impact of Stalinism on the political consciousness of the population.

Capitalist restoration has led to a social disaster in the Ukraine. From 1990 to 2000, the country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) fell from $90 billion (4 percent of the world economy) to $31 billion (1 percent of the world economy). The fruits of what economic growth has taken place since then have gone overwhelmingly to a layer of super-rich, parasitic oligarchs who looted Ukrainian state assets during capitalist restoration.

In 2008, the net worth of Ukraine’s top 50 oligarchs was $112.7 billion, or two-thirds of the country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Their personal holdings gave them controlling stakes in businesses amounting to 85 percent of the country’s economy.

Popular anger with the exorbitant wealth of the oligarchs and their dictatorship over public life is a constant feature of post-Soviet Ukraine. However, due to the Stalinist Soviet bureaucracy’s suppression of the Left Opposition led by Trotsky and of all independent political activity to the working class, there is no organized opposition from the left, based in the working class, to this gangster oligarchy. No political organization inside Ukraine fights for the impounding of the oligarchs’ ill-gotten wealth by the workers in a struggle for socialism.

In the absence of any political representation of the working class, popular opposition has been manipulated by a series of right-wing political operatives. Thus, a rallying cry of the US-backed “Orange Revolution” that toppled Yanukovych in 2004 was to “get money out of politics.”

When the “Orange” regime was discredited by its right-wing policies, and Yanukovych returned to power, he cynically pledged that he would address social inequality in Ukraine. In 2012, he said: “We need to reduce the enormous gap that exists between rich and poor. We should reach out to the poor. We must create conditions to give the opportunity of working to healthy people and provide a reliable social protection for those disabled.”

The central issue facing the working class is developing its own, independent struggle against the Yanukovych regime and also the fascistic, Western-backed opposition forces, whose program is utterly reactionary. The support of US and EU politicians for the opposition reflects their hopes that, if the opposition rules Ukraine or a rump state in western Ukraine, it will enable them to step up operations against Russia and the Middle East.

In seeking to control Ukraine, US and European imperialism are pursuing broad geo-strategic aims. The country controls two of the three major gas pipelines connecting Russian gas fields to European markets—the Transgas and Soyuz pipelines, accounting for approximately 80 percent of Russian exports to Europe. Ukraine also hosts key naval bases used by the Russian navy during its deployments last September to oppose US plans for an attack on Syria.
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Ukraine Freedom Fighters Bring Out the Medieval Artillery
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 05:10:27 AM »
OK, am I Nostradamus RE or WHAT?  How long have I been predicting this?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/arGF4d1-kPg?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/arGF4d1-kPg?feature=player_detailpage</a>

RE

Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.

But, yeah.

Good call splitting this thread off, BTW.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2014, 05:27:07 AM »
While having  a problem understanding exactly what is going on over there, it sure appears these folks are really pissed off.

They aren't playing games, boy what fury and anger.  :o
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 05:08:26 PM »
Been some good radio interviews Ive listened to. Any riot cop who starts talking about not wanting to bludgeon their own friends and families is immediately disappeared, they have to be careful enough saying that to their own famlies.
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Offline RE

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 02:10:04 AM »
From Eric Draitser on StopImperialism.org.

Note: IMHO, Eric Draitzer is funded by the Ruskie Propaganda machine.  He appears all the time on RT.  He appears to be a very smart young guy, but how he gets so much play on Russia Today without funding coming from them seems unlikely to me.

RE


Ukraine and the Rebirth of Fascism in Europe



By Eric Draitser

The violence on the streets of Ukraine is far more than an expression of popular anger against a government.  Instead, it is merely the latest example of the rise of the most insidious form of fascism that Europe has seen since the fall of the Third Reich.

Recent months have seen regular protests by the Ukrainian political opposition and its supporters –  protests ostensibly in response to Ukrainian President Yanukovich’s refusal to sign a trade agreement with the European Union that was seen by many political observers as the first step towards European integration.  The protests remained largely peaceful until January 17th when protesters armed with clubs, helmets, and improvised bombs unleashed brutal violence on the police, storming government buildings, beating anyone suspected of pro-government sympathies, and generally wreaking havoc on the streets of Kiev.  But who are these violent extremists and what is their ideology?

ukrainian-nationalists-attacked-police si-1

The political formation is known as “Pravy Sektor” (Right Sector), which is essentially an umbrella organization for a number of ultra-nationalist (read fascist) right wing groups including supporters of the “Svoboda” (Freedom) Party, “Patriots of Ukraine”, “Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian National Self Defense” (UNA-UNSO), and “Trizub”.  All of these organizations share a common ideology that is vehemently anti-Russian, anti-immigrant, and anti-Jewish among other things.  In addition they share a common reverence for the so called “Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists” led by Stepan Bandera, the infamous Nazi collaborators who actively fought against the Soviet Union and engaged in some of the worst atrocities committed by any side in World War II.

 While Ukrainian political forces, opposition and government, continue to negotiate, a very different battle is being waged in the streets.  Using intimidation and brute force more typical of Hitler’s “Brownshirts” or Mussolini’s “Blackshirts” than a contemporary political movement, these groups have managed to turn a conflict over economic policy and the political allegiances of the country into an existential struggle for the very survival of the nation that these so called “nationalists” claim to love so dearly.  The images of Kiev burning, Lviv streets filled with thugs, and other chilling examples of the chaos in the country, illustrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the political negotiation with the Maidan (Kiev’s central square and center of the protests) opposition is now no longer the central issue.  Rather, it is the question of Ukrainian fascism and whether it is to be supported or rejected.

For its part, the United States has strongly come down on the side of the opposition, regardless of its political character.  In early December, members of the US ruling establishment such as John McCain and Victoria Nuland were seen at Maidan lending their support to the protesters.  However, as the character of the opposition has become apparent in recent days, the US and Western ruling class and its media machine have done little to condemn the fascist upsurge.  Instead, their representatives have met with representatives of Right Sector and deemed them to be “no threat.”  In other words, the US and its allies have given their tacit approval for the continuation and proliferation of the violence in the name of their ultimate goal: regime change.

In an attempt to pry Ukraine out of the Russian sphere of influence, the US-EU-NATO alliance has, not for the first time, allied itself with fascists.  Of course, for decades, millions in Latin America were disappeared or murdered by fascist paramilitary forces armed and supported by the United States.  The mujahideen of Afghanistan, which later transmogrified into Al Qaeda, also extreme ideological reactionaries, were created and financed by the United States for the purposes of destabilizing Russia.  And of course, there is the painful reality of Libya and, most recently Syria, where the United States and its allies finance and support extremist jihadis against a government that has refused to align with the US and Israel.  There is a disturbing pattern here that has never been lost on keen political observers: the United States always makes common cause with right wing extremists and fascists for geopolitical gain.

The situation in Ukraine is deeply troubling because it represents a political conflagration that could very easily tear the country apart less than 25 years after it gained independence from the Soviet Union.  However, there is another equally disturbing aspect to the rise of fascism in that country – it is not alone.

The Fascist Menace Across the Continent

Ukraine and the rise of right wing extremism there cannot be seen, let alone understood, in isolation.  Rather, it must be examined as part of a growing trend throughout Europe (and indeed the world) – a trend which threatens the very foundations of democracy.

In Greece, savage austerity imposed by the troika (IMF, ECB, and European Commission) has crippled the country’s economy, leading to a depression as bad, if not worse, than the Great Depression in the United States.  It is against this backdrop of economic collapse that the Golden Dawn party has grown to become the third most popular political party in the country.  Espousing an ideology of hate, the Golden Dawn – in effect a Nazi party that promotes anti-Jewish, anti-immigrant, anti-women chauvinism – is a political force that the government in Athens has understood to be a serious threat to the very fabric of society.  It is this threat which led the government to arrest the party’s leadership after a Golden Dawn Nazi fatally stabbed an anti-fascist rapper.  Athens has launched an investigation into the party, though the results of this investigation and trial remain somewhat unclear.

What makes Golden Dawn such an insidious threat is the fact that, despite their central ideology of Nazism, their anti-EU, anti-austerity rhetoric appeals to many in the economically devastated Greece.  As with many fascist movements in the 20th Century, Golden Dawn scapegoats immigrants, Muslim and African primarily, for many of the problems facing Greeks.  In dire economic circumstances, such irrational hate becomes appealing; an answer to the question of how to solve society’s problems.  Indeed, despite Golden Dawn’s leaders being jailed, other party members are still in parliament, still running for major offices including mayor of Athens.  Though an electoral victory is unlikely, another strong showing at the polls will make the eradication of fascism in Greece that much harder.

 Were this phenomenon confined to Greece and Ukraine, it would not constitute a continental trend.  Sadly however, we see the rise of similar, albeit slightly less overtly fascist, political parties all over Europe.  In Spain, the ruling pro-austerity People’s Party has moved to establish draconian laws restricting protest and free speech, and empowering and sanctioning repressive police tactics.  In France, the National Front Party of Marine Le Pen, which vehemently scapegoats Muslim and African immigrants, won nearly twenty percent of the vote in the first round of presidential elections.  Similarly, the Party for Freedom in the Netherlands – which promotes anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant policies – has grown to be the third largest in parliament.  Throughout Scandinavia, ultra nationalist parties which once toiled in complete irrelevance and obscurity are now significant players in elections.  These trends are worrying to say the least.

It should be noted too that, beyond Europe, there are a number of quasi-fascist political formations which are, in one way or another, supported by the United States.  The right wing coups that overthrew the governments of Paraguay and Honduras were tacitly and/or overtly supported by Washington in their seemingly endless quest to suppress the Left in Latin America.  Of course, one should also remember that the protest movement in Russia was spearheaded by Alexei Navalny and his nationalist followers who espouse a virulently anti-Muslim, racist ideology that views immigrants from the Russian Caucasus and former Soviet republics as beneath “European Russians”.  These and other examples begin to paint a very ugly portrait of a US foreign policy that attempts to use economic hardship and political upheaval to extend US hegemony around the world.

In Ukraine, the “Right Sector” has taken the fight from the negotiating table to the streets in an attempt to fulfill the dream of Stepan Bandera – a Ukraine free of Russia, Jews, and all other “undesirables” as they see it.  Buoyed by the continued support from the US and Europe, these fanatics represent a more serious threat to democracy than Yanukovich and the pro-Russian government ever could.  If Europe and the United States don’t recognize this threat in its infancy, by the time they finally do, it might just be too late.

Eric Draitser is the founder of StopImperialism.com.  He is an independent geopolitical analyst based in New York City.  You can reach him at ericdraitser@gmail.com.
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 05:29:21 AM »
Note: IMHO, Eric Draitzer is funded by the Ruskie Propaganda machine.  He appears all the time on RT.  He appears to be a very smart young guy, but how he gets so much play on Russia Today without funding coming from them seems unlikely to me.

RE


Ukraine and the Rebirth of Fascism in Europe


//
Eric Draitser is the founder of StopImperialism.com.  He is an independent geopolitical analyst based in New York City.  You can reach him at ericdraitser@gmail.com.

He's a "smart young guy." Why does he have to be funded by the Kremlin?

I read the article closely and find the truth of what he has to say to be quite evident.

Quote from: Draitser
There is a disturbing pattern here that has never been lost on keen political observers: the United States always makes common cause with right wing extremists and fascists for geopolitical gain.

Quote from: Draitser
In dire economic circumstances, such irrational hate becomes appealing; an answer to the question of how to solve society’s problems.  Indeed, despite Golden Dawn’s leaders being jailed, other party members are still in parliament, still running for major offices including mayor of Athens.  Though an electoral victory is unlikely, another strong showing at the polls will make the eradication of fascism in Greece that much harder.

 Were this phenomenon confined to Greece and Ukraine, it would not constitute a continental trend.  Sadly however, we see the rise of similar, albeit slightly less overtly fascist, political parties all over Europe.  In Spain, the ruling pro-austerity People’s Party has moved to establish draconian laws restricting protest and free speech, and empowering and sanctioning repressive police tactics.  In France, the National Front Party of Marine Le Pen, which vehemently scapegoats Muslim and African immigrants, won nearly twenty percent of the vote in the first round of presidential elections.  Similarly, the Party for Freedom in the Netherlands – which promotes anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant policies – has grown to be the third largest in parliament.  Throughout Scandinavia, ultra nationalist parties which once toiled in complete irrelevance and obscurity are now significant players in elections.  These trends are worrying to say the least.

It should be noted too that, beyond Europe, there are a number of quasi-fascist political formations which are, in one way or another, supported by the United States.  The right wing coups that overthrew the governments of Paraguay and Honduras were tacitly and/or overtly supported by Washington in their seemingly endless quest to suppress the Left in Latin America.

cf. Kissinger, Pinochet and Milton Friedman, may he rot and suffer endlessly in hell.
Fascism is on the march, and in this country as well. We laugh at the Louis Gohmerts and Ted Cruzes of the world today for their sheer idiocy, but they laughed at The Little Corporal once too. And as Draitser observes, all it takes is tough economic times for people to embrace men on horesback offering simple, swift solutions, generally offering up some defenseless minority as human sacrifice...

We've seen this movie before.

Which resonates for me in this way, in the the SUNstead-- the advice of Ignoring the Trolls and others about the importance of "hiding in plan sight" and appearing as much as possible to be legally incorporated, good neighbors and not otherwise a bunch of revolutionaries on-the-plot. Hell, alternative communities already get rousted by local cops without an avowedly fascist government. You might can hide, but you can't run.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2014, 03:22:58 PM »

He's a "smart young guy." Why does he have to be funded by the Kremlin?

A 20-something guy pops outta nowhere with a well funded website and gets interviewed regularly by Russia Today as an Expert in Geopolitics.  He also appears to be able to fly around the world at will and gets interviews with the top tier of politicians, if not the heads of state.

So he is either independently wealthy or he is getting funding from somewhere.  Given the political spin of his website, its not coming from the Heritage Foundation or the Koch Brothers.  Where do you think it is coming from?

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Offline Surly1

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Re: Ukraine Civil War
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 03:33:32 AM »
More on the Ukraine.

I sent the Eric Draitser article to my friend, who was most unimpressed. He said, and I quote,

This is wacko.  My suspicions were aroused at the start when this was
announced as the worst instance of fascism since the fall of the Third
Reich.  What?  Worse that what Stalin unleashed?  Worse than the purges in
China?

The characterization of this uprising as a debate about economic and
political ideology totally misses the point.  The uprising is about living
in an impoverished state governed by the most corrupt leaders on the
planet.

For this author to miss this is proof that he is someone who has already
decided that this is a case of his agenda having priority regardless of
the facts.

No doubt the opposition has some unsavory characters, but they hardly characterize the nature of the opposition.

For a much better assessment, go to today's Post-Gazette and read the article by Iryna Serdechna in the Opinion section.


That woman's moving first-person account  can be found here:
First Person / My heart remains in Ukraine
:

Not sure I agree with my friend here, but I certainly trust his motives, his spin, and where he is coming from, as we have been friends for 57 years...

As I continue to try to make sense of what is really going on there ever the shitmist of disinformation, I found this from a fellow we have heard from before. Whenever the FSoA starts to prattle about "supporting democracy," you know that some groups with the moral standing of Tony Soprano are about to get showered with off-the-books money and assistance, if not arms, and that the fix is in.

Q: Why would we get involved/take sides?
A: To ratfuck Vlad.

Q: Ok, then. Assume I go along with this theory. Why?
A: Don't you read the papers? Heard about Syria last year, how Putin shunted  the Obama/ziofascist war machine to a side rail? Heard about Snowden? The Nuclear Mafia has plenty of reasons to want to mark Putin. He cost them money.

So much for motive...

In the meantime, on the "Ukrainian front"

According to the BBC Western leaders are having a great time in Munich: they are re-igniting the Cold War under the pretext of - what else? - "supporting democracy" in the Ukraine:

Quote
European Council President Herman Van Rompuy said the "future of Ukraine belongs with the EU" while US Secretary of State John Kerry said the US backed Ukraine's "fight for democracy".(...) Mr Van Rompuy's opening speech referred to the EU's offer of close association with Ukraine. "The offer is still there and we know time is on our side. The future of Ukraine belongs with the European Union," he said. Mr Kerry launched a broad attack on "a disturbing trend in too many parts of Central and Eastern Europe and the Balkans". He said: "The aspirations of citizens are once again being trampled beneath corrupt, oligarchic interests - interests that use money to stifle political opposition and dissent, to buy politicians and media outlets, and to weaken judicial independence." Mr Kerry added: "Nowhere is the fight for a democratic, European future more important today than in Ukraine. The United States and EU stand with the people of Ukraine in that fight." He said the "vast majority of Ukrainians want to live freely in a safe and prosperous country - they are fighting for the right to associate with partners who will help them realise their aspirations". In an apparent swipe at Moscow, he added that "their futures do not have to lie with one country alone, and certainly not coerced". (...) The White House has confirmed it is discussing possible sanctions against Ukraine with the US Congress. Before arriving in Munich, Mr Kerry said that concessions from President Viktor Yanukovych had "not yet reached an adequate level of reform".

Ain't that something?  When Yanokovich does exactly *nothing* to stop the neo-Nazi rioters from burning cops, seizing government buildings, threatening to "go on the attack", calling for the overthrow of the government and openly calling for the intervention of foreign powers the West considers that as "trampling upon democracy".  But when Eltsin orders his tank to shoot at the Russian Parliament and kills thousands of civilians the West gives him full support.

Go figure....  Democracy is so complicated to understand....

In the meantime, Yanukovich has made it known that he has the flu and that he needs some time off to recover.  Seriously, I kid you not.  The Ukraine is on the edge of a civil war, and that fat clown is on "sick leave".

Which raises a question in my mind: who is the most despicable person and the most pathetic President - Eltsin and his vodka or Yanukovich with his flu?

Now, there is good news coming from the Crimean Peninsula: the government of the Crimea and authorities of the city of Sevastopol have come to a full agreement.  They have jointly decided to create and mobilize a "citizen militia" which will act in support of the Peninsula's police forces.  In other words, the Crimean authorities are preparing to secede from the Ukraine if the regime in Kiev falls.  Furthermore,  they are preparing to defend Crimea against any possible attempt by the nationalist to take it by force.  Truly, they have no choice in this matter because the nationalists all want to kick out the Black Sea Fleet form Sevastopol, revoke the special status of the Crimean Peninsula, and "Ukrainify" it.  For the people of Crimea a nationalist coup in Kiev is truly an existential threat.

As for Russia, I can only repeat what I wrote earlier: Russia will not directly intervene in this conflict.  The only exception to this principle would be a violent attempt by nationalists to seize Crimea by force.  In that case there is no doubt in my mind that Russia will intervene militarily, even at a risk of a confrontation with NATO.

Personally, I think that the West will order the nationalists to refrain from trying to take Crimea by force.  Whether these rabid psychopaths will listen is anybody's guess.

The Saker
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound