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Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #120 on: October 22, 2012, 03:19:39 PM »

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RE "To be able to write about it, I had to first read about it so clearly I know more about what happenned before I was born than you know about it, since you don't seem to be able to write anything but the same old tired cliches and coda with pics of Gold Coins."

             
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Offline reanteben

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #121 on: October 22, 2012, 03:31:37 PM »


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Finally, I have NEVER referred to Gold as Tungsten, I merely point out that because it has the same density, if a gold bar or coin is cored with tungsten you can't tell unless you drill it.  Probably 20% of your coin collection are Tungsten Cored Counterfeits.

Anyhow, I don't mind debating Gold issues with you, and in fact Monsta has a Feature Article in the pipeline here on the topic.  I will add more to it after publication.  Meanwhile, try not to LIE and misrepresent what I write in your rebuttals.  Thanks.

1
Market Flambe / Re: Big Slide v2.0 Begins: Restore Gold Standard For Price Stability and Jobs
« by RE on June 02, 2012, 02:09:29 PM »

......  the Saudis we would have emptied Fort Knox of Tungsten probably by 1980. Our economy would have crashed  ......
2
Market Flambe / Re: Make a list, check it twice. Introducing My Twin Brother to the Diner
« by Golden Oxen on May 22, 2012, 10:01:05 AM »

......  of course that he would have just been Nuking Tungsten. Third, Goldfinger had a Japanese Butler who  ......                 

Everybody knows the Gold in Fort Knox was replaced by Tungsten when Nixon closed the Gold Window in 1971.  Even Tyler Durden says so. :P

RE

yeah, come on, ox - noble metal noble obligations. fort knox was an insult.  :P

Offline monsta666

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #122 on: October 22, 2012, 04:09:16 PM »
Out of curiosity I looked up how much gold is held in reserve and it would seem the amount of gold ever mined is roughly about 165,000 tons and assuming prices of $1,900 an ounce or $62.1 million a ton then that would mean the value of all gold ever mined would amount to $10.1 trillion. However what is more useful is the amount of gold held in reserve by countries. The total gold reserves held at the state level is 34.913.7 tons and assuming the prices listed above then that would give a value $2.168 trillion. A high value indeed but considering the world GDP is valued at somewhere around $70 trillion in nominal terms it makes you wonder how feasible a transition to gold standard would be. And this is before we even consider all the debt behind all those assets that gold would have to cover. If we included all that debt we could be going into the quadrillion dollar territory.

Still, even if the gold standard cannot be restored in time gold will retain some value. Question is how long must we wait before people recognise the true value of gold?

Offline RE

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #123 on: October 22, 2012, 04:10:34 PM »

RE
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Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #124 on: October 22, 2012, 05:44:22 PM »
Out of curiosity I looked up how much gold is held in reserve and it would seem the amount of gold ever mined is roughly about 165,000 tons and assuming prices of $1,900 an ounce or $62.1 million a ton then that would mean the value of all gold ever mined would amount to $10.1 trillion. However what is more useful is the amount of gold held in reserve by countries. The total gold reserves held at the state level is 34.913.7 tons and assuming the prices listed above then that would give a value $2.168 trillion. A high value indeed but considering the world GDP is valued at somewhere around $70 trillion in nominal terms it makes you wonder how feasible a transition to gold standard would be. And this is before we even consider all the debt behind all those assets that gold would have to cover. If we included all that debt we could be going into the quadrillion dollar territory.

Still, even if the gold standard cannot be restored in time gold will retain some value. Question is how long must we wait before people recognise the true value of gold?

That cannot happen until they realize that Gold is money and the paper is a fiction.

Even you in your sophistication and wisdom about these matters continue to hold on to the fallacious argument that gold has to accommodate the insane amount of fiat created by the madmen, you continue monsta, unwittingly, to give fiat the attribute of being something real.

It is not, it and the amount of it outstanding have no basis in reality whatsoever. It is worthless inconvertible into gold pretty colored paper, that was issued and used by the banksters to screw and control the dim. Once you understand that you will come to realize that gold stands alone as money and all fiat eventually becomes worthless, whatever it's country of origin or the silly numbers one attaches to its value. In other words gold will go up in price in dollars marks and yen etc. for as long as it takes for the fiction to become obvious and the currency to become worthless, and then replaced by a new one for the dim to use. The price is of no consequence, sooner or later the currency becomes worthless and gold stands stable, it has happened to all fiat in all of recorded history and will do so again.
Try and understand that gold is worth it's weight, not a price in some make believe paper currency. You have an ounce of gold or an ounce of silver. Perhaps a ten oz or 100 oz bar, maybe something as small as a gram or a mill. You do not have 1900 gold dollars, the concept is silly. 1900 is the rate you can turn 1 oz of gold in for scrip at the current daily rate in a currency called the US Dollar. Gold and the paper money have been severed from one another by the great con men of the world. Gold doesn't have to back all the worthless fiat in the world to be Gold, although it could.

                                         
1OZ PHILARMONIC
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Offline RE

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #125 on: October 22, 2012, 07:05:21 PM »

                                         
1OZ PHILARMONIC
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Inside of the above coin:


RE
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Offline monsta666

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #126 on: October 22, 2012, 07:24:25 PM »
Gold is money and the paper is a fiction.

You should put this as your signature!

It is not, it and the amount of it outstanding have no basis in reality whatsoever. It is worthless inconvertible into gold pretty colored paper, that was issued and used by the banksters to screw and control the dim. Once you understand that you will come to realize that gold stands alone as money and all fiat eventually becomes worthless, whatever it's country of origin or the silly numbers one attaches to its value. In other words gold will go up in price in dollars marks and yen etc. for as long as it takes for the fiction to become obvious and the currency to become worthless, and then replaced by a new one for the dim to use. The price is of no consequence, sooner or later the currency becomes worthless and gold stands stable, it has happened to all fiat in all of recorded history and will do so again.

Try and understand that gold is worth it's weight, not a price in some make believe paper currency. You have an ounce of gold or an ounce of silver. Perhaps a ten oz or 100 oz bar, maybe something as small as a gram or a mill. You do not have 1900 gold dollars, the concept is silly. 1900 is the rate you can turn 1 oz of gold in for scrip at the current daily rate in a currency called the US Dollar. Gold and the paper money have been severed from one another by the great con men of the world. Gold doesn't have to back all the worthless fiat in the world to be Gold, although it could.

I can buy the idea that all papers will in short time become worthless. Despite this fact I do think it can be useful to find the value of gold by comparing it to other hard assets such as food, oil or other commodities because while we can be fairly paper currencies will devalue we know that real goods will always be wanted so gold should be measured against those commodities that do have long-term value. If we should avoid paper then it is best to look at what our gold can buy. At this moment of time despite the unprecedented high oil prices gold is holding up well and one bar will buy you around 19 barrels of oil.

Gold to oil ratio

This is around the historic norm which is quite telling seeing as the value for all traditional commodities is going through the roof when compared to the dollar. I think going forward this is the way we should measure the value of gold. What it can get us.

Offline monsta666

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #127 on: October 22, 2012, 07:32:54 PM »
Now I am wondering, are you serious or is this made in jest? If true when was the fraud committed or if it has been a process when did the fraud really get going in earnest?

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #128 on: October 22, 2012, 07:45:50 PM »
Now I am wondering, are you serious or is this made in jest? If true when was the fraud committed or if it has been a process when did the fraud really get going in earnest?


Monsta, My understanding is its a theory based on the fact they will not allow an audit of fort knox since 1970 or so, but dont quote me on that.
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #129 on: October 22, 2012, 07:51:51 PM »
Out of curiosity I looked up how much gold is held in reserve and it would seem the amount of gold ever mined is roughly about 165,000 tons and assuming prices of $1,900 an ounce or $62.1 million a ton then that would mean the value of all gold ever mined would amount to $10.1 trillion. However what is more useful is the amount of gold held in reserve by countries. The total gold reserves held at the state level is 34.913.7 tons and assuming the prices listed above then that would give a value $2.168 trillion. A high value indeed but considering the world GDP is valued at somewhere around $70 trillion in nominal terms it makes you wonder how feasible a transition to gold standard would be. And this is before we even consider all the debt behind all those assets that gold would have to cover. If we included all that debt we could be going into the quadrillion dollar territory.

Still, even if the gold standard cannot be restored in time gold will retain some value. Question is how long must we wait before people recognise the true value of gold?

That cannot happen until they realize that Gold is money and the paper is a fiction.

Even you in your sophistication and wisdom about these matters continue to hold on to the fallacious argument that gold has to accommodate the insane amount of fiat created by the madmen, you continue monsta, unwittingly, to give fiat the attribute of being something real.

It is not, it and the amount of it outstanding have no basis in reality whatsoever. It is worthless inconvertible into gold pretty colored paper, that was issued and used by the banksters to screw and control the dim. Once you understand that you will come to realize that gold stands alone as money and all fiat eventually becomes worthless, whatever it's country of origin or the silly numbers one attaches to its value. In other words gold will go up in price in dollars marks and yen etc. for as long as it takes for the fiction to become obvious and the currency to become worthless, and then replaced by a new one for the dim to use. The price is of no consequence, sooner or later the currency becomes worthless and gold stands stable, it has happened to all fiat in all of recorded history and will do so again.
Try and understand that gold is worth it's weight, not a price in some make believe paper currency. You have an ounce of gold or an ounce of silver. Perhaps a ten oz or 100 oz bar, maybe something as small as a gram or a mill. You do not have 1900 gold dollars, the concept is silly. 1900 is the rate you can turn 1 oz of gold in for scrip at the current daily rate in a currency called the US Dollar. Gold and the paper money have been severed from one another by the great con men of the world. Gold doesn't have to back all the worthless fiat in the world to be Gold, although it could.

                                         
1OZ PHILARMONIC
1OZ PHILARMONIC

GO
There was blink and you miss it piece on the news the other night that Perth Mint can not supply orders for coins bercause they are waiting on delivery of said gold. This has never happened before.

Now what have you to say in response to the rumour you are paying Oddjob for services in F I A T
ELEVATE YOUR GAME

Offline RE

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #130 on: October 22, 2012, 09:19:31 PM »
Monsta, My understanding is its a theory based on the fact they will not allow an audit of fort knox since 1970 or so, but dont quote me on that.

The story I got is that the replacement with counterfeit bars started in the mid-70s but accelerated greatly under the Clinton Administration in the 80s.

Recently the Swiss National Bank found numerous 100oz Tungsten Cored bars in their Basement Safe.

As the value of Gold increases, the rewards for Counterfeiting increase as well, so there are increasingly more coutnterfeit coins and bars circulating.  Unless you drill them you can't tell the difference.  Since Coin Dealers won't let you drill a coin you won't know until after you buy it and only if you choose to drill it, which will take some value away from the numismatic collectibles of course.

Count on it, it Da Goobermint went to a Gold Standard, Gold coins would be cored with Tungsten all the time.  This is an old Playbook the Romans did, though not with Tungsten.  It's just as possible to debase metal coinage as Fiat, and certainly easier to counterfeit than the complex paper notes with special papers.

Gold has about ZERO chance of working as currency, but Gold Bugs can't grasp reality.  Sad.

RE
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #131 on: October 22, 2012, 09:48:58 PM »
How about a taxonomic classification system for gold-bugs. I think its over-generalizing suggesting they all expect gold to become currency.

That does describe the Fofo fools, but I think the majority just see it as a good investment. Has to be way better than stocks and real estate even with an exchange hit of Around 25%

It looks like China is Stockpiling all gold  available (which is why Perth Mint can not supply coins now, Kalgoorlie gold mines have been majority bought out by Chinese so they ship it out instead of to the mint.)
So with China stockpiling all this gold we have to ask WHY? What is the game-plan.
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Offline RE

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2012, 10:39:54 PM »
It looks like China is Stockpiling all gold  available (which is why Perth Mint can not supply coins now, Kalgoorlie gold mines have been majority bought out by Chinese so they ship it out instead of to the mint.)
So with China stockpiling all this gold we have to ask WHY? What is the game-plan.

The Chinese are stockpiling metals all across the board.  They got warehouses chock full of copper, nickel, silver too.  They are trying to diversify but they got the same problem with these as they have with too much paper.  If they try to liquidate, it will drive down the price.  The plan is to collect Big Paperweights.

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Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #133 on: October 23, 2012, 01:08:23 AM »
 Quote Uncle Bob  "GO
There was blink and you miss it piece on the news the other night that Perth Mint can not supply orders for coins bercause they are waiting on delivery of said gold. This has never happened before.

Now what have you to say in response to the rumour you are paying Oddjob for services in F I A T"

Thank's Unc, Really needed a good belly laugh. You are one Hot Ticket.   Go  :D ;D :laugh: :icon_mrgreen: :exp-grin:

                           
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Offline RE

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Ft. Knox Tungsten
« Reply #134 on: October 23, 2012, 01:31:37 AM »

Clintons and Federal Reserve bankers linked to fake gold in Fort Knox.
 

The New Federal Reserve Gold
 
In October of 2009 China received a shipment of gold bars from the United States Department of the Treasury Bullion Depository in Fort Knox. The gold is regularly exchanged between countries to pay debts and to settle the balance of trade. Most gold is exchanged and stored in vaults under the supervision of a special organization based in London, the London Bullion Market Association (or LBMA). When the shipment was received, the Chinese government ordered special tests be performed to guarantee the purity and weight of the gold bars as China is the largest foreign holder of US Treasury securities. Chinese officials were shocked to learn that the bars were fake. The gold shipment contained a tungsten core with a thin coating of real gold. These tested gold bars originated in the US and had been stored in Fort Knox for years.
 
The Chinese government quickly launched an investigation and issued a statement that implicated the US government in the scheme. The gold shipment serial numbers revealed that these fake bars were made by the Federal Reserve bankers during the Clinton administration. It was during the Bill and Hillary Clinton presidency that the bankers of the Federal Reserve manufactured between 1.3 and 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten blanks. 640,000 of these tungsten blanks were gold plated and were shipped to Ft. Knox where they remain there to this day.
 
According to Chinese investigators, the balance of this 1.3 million to 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten cache was also gold plated and then “sold” into the international gold market. Not only has the United States gold stocks been swapped with fake gold the global market has also been been defrauded by the Federal Reserve bankers and the Clintons. As much as $600 billion dollars worth of gold has been affected by the Clinton Gold Heist.
 
A New York Post article titled, DA investigating NYMEX executive ,Manhattan, New York, –Feb. 2, 2004 indicated that the Clinton Gold Heist was being investigated by US officials. The article, written by Jennifer Anderson, reported that “A top executive at the New York Mercantile Exchange is being investigated by the Manhattan district attorney. Sources close to the exchange said that Stuart Smith, senior vice president of operations at the exchange, was served with a search warrant by the district attorney’s office last week.

Details of the investigation have not been disclosed, but a NYMEX spokeswoman said it was unrelated to any of the exchange’s markets. She declined to comment further other than to say that charges had not been brought. A spokeswoman for the Manhattan district attorney’s office also declined comment.”
 The offices of the Senior Vice President of Operations — NYMEX — is exactly where you would go to find the records [serial number and smelter of origin] for EVERY GOLD BAR ever physically settled on the exchange. They are required to keep these records. These precise records would show the lineage of all the physical gold settled on the exchange and hence “prove” that the amount of gold in question could not have possibly come from the U.S. mining operations — because the amounts in question coming from U.S. smelters would undoubtedly be vastly bigger than domestic mine production.
 
Why use tungsten?
 
To print fake money you need to have the special paper, otherwise the bills don’t feel right and can be easily detected by special pens that most merchants and banks use. Likewise, if you are going to fake gold bars you had better be sure they have the same weight and properties of real gold.
 
The problem with making good-quality fake gold is that gold is remarkably dense. It’s almost twice the density of lead, and two-and-a-half times more dense than steel. You don’t usually notice this because small gold rings and the like don’t weigh enough to make it obvious, but if you’ve ever held a bar of gold, it’s absolutely unmistakable: A gold bar is very, very heavy.
 
The standard gold bar for bank-to-bank trade, known as a “London good delivery bar” weighs 400 troy ounces (over thirty-three pounds), yet is no bigger than a paperback novel. A bar of steel the same size would weigh only thirteen and a half pounds.
 There are very few metals that are as dense as gold, and with only two exceptions they all cost as much or more than gold. The first exception is depleted uranium, which is cheap if you’re a government, but hard for individuals to get. It’s also radioactive, which could be a bit of an issue.
 
The second exception is tungsten. Tungsten is lot cheaper than gold but it has exactly the same density as gold, to three decimal places. The main differences are that it’s the wrong color, and that it’s much, much harder than gold. Pure gold is quite soft You can dent it with a fingernail.
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