PE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> Gold & Silver News

AuthorTopic: Gold & Silver News  (Read 435462 times)

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 39794
    • View Profile
Re: The Golden Blind Spot
« Reply #150 on: October 24, 2012, 04:06:32 PM »

1/You call counterfeiting "old as the hills" in debasing the currency/value. Trading at 1700-1800$ oz up from 350$oz a decade ago, that level of debasement is one we can wear.

Value change of the actual metal has nothing to do with debasement.

Quote
2/Using gold as trade on a small scale, Nobody has access to tungsten or technology to take it off the tip of their Kinchrome screwdrivers to put it in gold.

You're joking right?  Go to Tungsten.com[/b]]Tungsten.com or Torrey Hills Technologies and order 3/16" wire online.  Next go to Home Depot and buy a Dremel high speed rotary multi tool, soldering iron and clamps and 3/16" drill bits.  Go over to the coin shop and buy a Gold Eagle.  Go home to your basement, drill 5 holes into the side of the coing almost through to the other edge. Save the gold filings you drill out.  Insert the tungsten wire to fill the holes.  Top off with some of the gold dust and melt the spot with soldering iron.  Use the buff wheel on the Dremel to polish.  POOF, you are done!

Quote
3/ Even if you could do it. Trading in gold for goods means melting tiny amounts out to be weighed on small scales, hard to hide tungsten in these

Not really.  You can grind tungsten into dust then coat each tiny particle in a plating appararatus any chem teacher knows how to set up with a couple of buckets and electrodes.  It would be indistiguishable from Gold Dust until melted.

Anyhow, the major problem you have is on the commercial level with the coins and bars, which is what most Gold Bugs store in their Basement Safes.  Like the Swiss National Bank, you don't know how many of them are counterfeit until you start drilling.

Quote
Simple solution;Get caught get killed.

You can say the same for Counterfeiting Paper, and in fact traditionally Counterfeiting has been considered a Crime worse than Rape or Murder.  Isaac Newton as Master of the Mint was notorious for Torturing Counterfeiters.  When the profit margin is big enough though, lots of people will take the risk, especially if they are over in China doing the Tungsten Coring and selling the Coins over the Net to Gold Bugs here in the FSofA.  How you gonna kill them?

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #151 on: October 24, 2012, 04:17:36 PM »
The 3 initial points re the Tungsten Counterfeiting I put forward above deal with the pictorial side of the article as supplied by RE.

With regard to Monsta's main arguments,
Firstly the "long depression" of 1870's following the American civil War is not well known at least I had not heard of it, the 1890's depression is generally more recognized. I would say Monsta was being ethnocentric if he was not a Pom  ;). Secondly Im still not convinced the Chicken/Egg conundrum with war/depression is settled in favour of war first because there is no depression following WW2. Then again despite the whole idea being somehow missed except in very brief passing by Obama "2 wars on a chinese credit card" in the 3 presidential debates on firstly the economy, then another one on foreign policy, the connection right now with War first was never recognised.

Thirdly, Fractional reserve lending of gold backed money does not mean that the value of actually HOLDING the gold does not make sense. I see this as a case FOR gold not AGAINST it. As Monsta points out, they did this in the first place because they realised people were NOT taking their physical gold out of safe deposit in the bank.

The only problem against HOLDING gold is confiscation, which happened in the 1930's depression. Lets say you have it confiscated are recompensed at a dollar value then the dollar hyperinflates, you are screwed.
       

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5FvM_4B7Pkc&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/5FvM_4B7Pkc&fs=1</a>

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News: How to Spot Fake Gold
« Reply #152 on: October 24, 2012, 04:27:06 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1aY8NKHfCnY&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/1aY8NKHfCnY&fs=1</a>

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News: Gold bars filled with tungsten... I am not worried
« Reply #153 on: October 24, 2012, 04:41:36 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/rg1t_buRBCs&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/rg1t_buRBCs&fs=1</a>

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 39794
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #154 on: October 24, 2012, 04:57:27 PM »
First on the Magnet Test:

Quote
Tungsten has many properties that Gold has making it hard to distinguish. Firstly neither Gold nor Tungsten are magnetic. They do have slightly different magnetic properties as one is diamagnetic and one is paramagnetic, but this isn't easily distinguishable.

Second on the Ultrasound

Quote
So what is the answer? Well I'm afraid that other than intrusive and damaging testing the only option is a sonic or electrical test. An ultrasound can be calibrated to detect Gold and distinguish Tungsten or a sensitive electrical test can be performed to measure the resistive properties. Neither of which I would expect your average person to have to hand.

So, you have an Ultrasound machine?  This will work well when the grid goes down.  Also, that video was a little misleading.  Because Voids and other materials have much different density, they are readily apparent on Ultrasound.  Since Tungsten has the same density as Gold, its not as obvious as those pictures make it seem, though I am sure still detectible if well calibrated.

RE

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 39794
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News: Gold bars filled with tungsten... I am not worried
« Reply #155 on: October 24, 2012, 05:08:41 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/rg1t_buRBCs&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/rg1t_buRBCs&fs=1</a>

This guy is s-s-so c-c-confident his c-c-coins are r-r-real he c-c-can't s-s-stop s-s-stuttering.  LOL.

Go with the Twinkies.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline monsta666

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #156 on: October 24, 2012, 05:18:02 PM »
While I can see a scenario where there is significant gold counterfeiting that will catch out the unwary gold investor out I do think getting too caught up on this issue distracts us from the other issues of this topic. I can certainly see gold fraud as a big issue but I chose not to focus my article on this issue. Yes one could say it is a disadvantage of using gold as it is easier to fake than modern fiat currencies but I think this discussion, if taken too far, generally detracts from the other points which are also equally valid but less widely discussed.

One point I did not really mention about gold in the article I wrote is that of hoarding. In a financial crisis, a lot of the richer players will hold a disproportionate amount of gold and in a period of uncertainty it will be hoarded which in a gold backed currency means a large chunk of the money supply will be effectively cut off. This will cause significant issues on its own to people who do not own significant amounts of gold i.e. the vast majority of the population as it creates a largely deflationary scenario. If people hold debts (which they will likely do the ruling class) then the pain will be that much greater to them.

Also as big as counterfeiting maybe the bigger danger I see in gold investments is that of confiscation either by government decree or violent/zombie hoards. It will be harder to avoid such problems should they develop. The other major issue is if there simply no resources or a scarcity of a said resource then your gold will not help you much. You maybe in a better than the average Joe who is still holding worthless dollars but the step up would not be much. Your gold holdings would however be more beneficial once some kind of salvage economy gets under way but then how long would that take? Plus with any wealth, real or perceived, you need to address the issue of how to defend it. If gold is as valuable as people on this thread suggest then you will be a BIG target to zombies.

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #157 on: October 24, 2012, 05:37:11 PM »
Quote
This guy is s-s-so c-c-confident his c-c-coins are r-r-real he c-c-can't s-s-stop s-s-stuttering.  LOL.


Do you always ridicule people with speech impediments, or just the ones you don't agree with?

Offline Petty Tyrant

  • Cannot be Saved
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 4573
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #158 on: October 24, 2012, 05:54:12 PM »
Theres a bit too much jumping between cornucopia, doom-lite and full doom scenarios wrt gold as currency or gold backed currency.
FOFO fools are cornucopian and  historical examples are also within the normal cycle of boom/bust.

Asians, Arabs and Indians do hold plenty of personal gold, even poor ones strive to do that. They have in the past used it in small amounts to trade with for real goods such as sacks of rice. They are all gold-bugs in hedging.

I didnt object to RE's course in DIY drilling/counterfeiting 101, because in a doom lite situation I would expect to have access to running electricity or a generator or even solar panel and 12v cordless.

What Im saying is arguments for or against need to specify which category they do and dont apply to.

Im not going to take the chance that when GO emerges as a post apocalyptic warlord, he hasnt sent Oddjob into the abandoned ante-natal unit, to pinch the ultrasound to check on my DIY conjob.


ELEVATE YOUR GAME

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 39794
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #159 on: October 24, 2012, 06:18:07 PM »
Quote
This guy is s-s-so c-c-confident his c-c-coins are r-r-real he c-c-can't s-s-stop s-s-stuttering.  LOL.


Do you always ridicule people with speech impediments, or just the ones you don't agree with?

I take my cue from Don Rickles and ridicule everybody.  :icon_mrgreen:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/fyxjEuFfxV0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/fyxjEuFfxV0</a>

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #160 on: October 24, 2012, 06:45:36 PM »
While I can see a scenario where there is significant gold counterfeiting that will catch out the unwary gold investor out I do think getting too caught up on this issue distracts us from the other issues of this topic. I can certainly see gold fraud as a big issue but I chose not to focus my article on this issue. Yes one could say it is a disadvantage of using gold as it is easier to fake than modern fiat currencies but I think this discussion, if taken too far, generally detracts from the other points which are also equally valid but less widely discussed.

One point I did not really mention about gold in the article I wrote is that of hoarding. In a financial crisis, a lot of the richer players will hold a disproportionate amount of gold and in a period of uncertainty it will be hoarded which in a gold backed currency means a large chunk of the money supply will be effectively cut off. This will cause significant issues on its own to people who do not own significant amounts of gold i.e. the vast majority of the population as it creates a largely deflationary scenario. If people hold debts (which they will likely do the ruling class) then the pain will be that much greater to them.

Also as big as counterfeiting maybe the bigger danger I see in gold investments is that of confiscation either by government decree or violent/zombie hoards. It will be harder to avoid such problems should they develop. The other major issue is if there simply no resources or a scarcity of a said resource then your gold will not help you much. You maybe in a better than the average Joe who is still holding worthless dollars but the step up would not be much. Your gold holdings would however be more beneficial once some kind of salvage economy gets under way but then how long would that take? Plus with any wealth, real or perceived, you need to address the issue of how to defend it. If gold is as valuable as people on this thread suggest then you will be a BIG target to zombies.
[/quote]

Quote
Yes one could say it is a disadvantage of using gold as it is easier to fake than modern fiat currencies but I think this discussion

If you really believe that, discontinue reading this, it will be meaningless to you.

Quote
One point I did not really mention about gold in the article I wrote is that of hoarding. In a financial crisis, a lot of the richer players will hold a disproportionate amount of gold and in a period of uncertainty it will be hoarded which in a gold backed currency means a large chunk of the money supply will be effectively cut off.

Correct, good work, and were the currency not convertible into gold they would own a disproportionate share of that, and of course do. What else is new?

Quote
This will cause significant issues on its own to people who do not own significant amounts of gold i.e. the vast majority of the population as it creates a largely deflationary scenario. If people hold debts (which they will likely do the ruling class) then the pain will be that much greater to them.

Correct again the people without either the Gold or fiat will suffer the most, witness Greece. You point that the poor will get dicked by the rich is true and historically accurate. Brilliant observation!

Quote
Also as big as counterfeiting maybe the bigger danger I see in gold investments is that of confiscation either by government decree or violent/zombie hoards.

Right again Monsta, a hat trick, the Zombies are going to come after me for my tungsten filled gold and let you and you paper money stash stay at home with your hoards of canned goods and Twinkies, and let you continue watching the three stooges on TV until Doomsday goes bye bye.

Thanks for your help,  I am going our right now and get rid of my gold for a briefcase full of fiat so the Zombies don't get me. 


Quote
The other major issue is if there simply no resources or a scarcity of a said resource then your gold will not help you much

There is a point that is truly astounding and so insightful. Did you really think that one up on your own or are you a former student of RE?  Such wisdom from a young man has me suspicious.

My pocket full of paper isn't going to be much fucking use to me then either, is it, Your Wizardry?

Leave GO Alone He's got Tungsten. Go to Monsta's House For the Real Thing
Leave GO Alone He's got Tungsten. Go to Monsta's House For the Real Thing


« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 06:49:23 PM by Golden Oxen »

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #161 on: October 24, 2012, 06:59:42 PM »
I take my cue from Don Rickles and ridicule everybody.  :icon_mrgreen:

He was a funny bastard for sure!

Saw him in Vegas decades ago, he sure can tell a dirty joke. Another thing gone bad, Comedy.

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #162 on: October 24, 2012, 07:20:19 PM »
Quote Unc""Im not going to take the chance that when GO emerges as a post apocalyptic warlord, he hasnt sent Oddjob into the abandoned ante-natal unit, to pinch the ultrasound to check on my DIY conjob."  ;D ;D :icon_mrgreen: :laugh: :laugh:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/iHFqDjzkyQQ&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/iHFqDjzkyQQ&fs=1</a>

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 39794
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #163 on: October 24, 2012, 09:15:58 PM »
Quote Unc""Im not going to take the chance that when GO emerges as a post apocalyptic warlord, he hasnt sent Oddjob into the abandoned ante-natal unit, to pinch the ultrasound to check on my DIY conjob."  ;D ;D :icon_mrgreen: :laugh: :laugh:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/iHFqDjzkyQQ&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/iHFqDjzkyQQ&fs=1</a>

Odd Job will do just fine until he meets up with Smith & Wesson.



RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Petty Tyrant

  • Cannot be Saved
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 4573
    • View Profile
Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #164 on: October 24, 2012, 10:01:47 PM »
Look carefully at Harrison Ford in that IJ clip and notice how sweaty, weak, and unstable hardly able to stand he is. I saw an intv recently where he said he was meant to get into a long fight scene but was too sick and weak on set with fever to do it so they shortened it...
ELEVATE YOUR GAME

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1524 Views
Last post June 06, 2015, 08:05:44 AM
by Eddie
11 Replies
3765 Views
Last post November 06, 2015, 04:18:12 PM
by Palloy
2 Replies
1338 Views
Last post January 15, 2016, 06:40:32 PM
by Eddie