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Offline WHD

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #315 on: January 21, 2013, 09:06:20 AM »
Quote
I see, Like the Peak Oil Bogus Shit they have the dim preaching to hold the price of crud up, currently languishing around 90 from its high of 150 seven years ago??
Never knew you were working for big oil my brainwashed friend, did you. :laugh:

Quote
As far as getting to Wall Mart, if you had just half the brains of MKing you would ride your bicycle there. :laugh: :P :o

GO,

It only ever hit 150 because people were pouring money into crude as a hedge against a collapsing global economy. It dropped down to thirty, as you will recall, in the midst of the chaos, if you are being honest. It hovers around 90 because any cheaper, and they don't make any money on those fringe plays, if we are being honest about Peak.

As for MKing riding his bike to Wal-Mart, he would probably drive his "free" electric vehicle on his "free" energy.

Suggesting RE has half the brains of MKing might get you accused of having your head up your bum about economic/political realities, even though I know you don't. Point is, you don't do your gold argument any favor by leaning on "socrates".

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #316 on: January 21, 2013, 09:12:39 AM »
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The mint is supposed to produce silver eagles to meet demand. Yet, at least once a year they run out.   I've been on the fence as to their incompetence vs market manipulation.  There is no shortage of silver eagles in the secondary market  with prices varing from ~$2.50 - $6+ above spot.  Some of the Mint's dealers might be playing a perceived shortage for higher markup.  Currently the higher prices are found at APMEX and their banker is JP Morgan.

Hi Snowleopard, Just my guess but in the case of the Treasury I would lean heavily towards your incompetence idea rather than manipulation, mostly because of the gigantic premiums they charge over spot, so I believe them.

In the case of silver or gold bullion dealers, lets face it, they would; most not all, sell their mothers lead painted gold or silver, or RE's favorite tungsten. As in ALL MARKETS,   "CAVEAT EMPTOR"

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #317 on: January 21, 2013, 09:26:42 AM »
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GO,

It only ever hit 150 because people were pouring money into crude as a hedge against a collapsing global economy.

Hi WHD That is a statement that I am convinced is totally erroneous. It is obvious to me that the exact opposite is true.

As far as Socrates goes, you are of course totally correct. It was merely an intended humorous barb at our Dungeon Master for referring to my posting as Bogus Shit. I can understand where you did not see the humor and thought me serious; in the future if you see one of these :laugh: :D ;D after one of my postings it is a sign that I am making an attempt at jest, sorry this one was not successful.

Offline Snowleopard

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #318 on: January 21, 2013, 11:47:44 AM »
Quote
The mint is supposed to produce silver eagles to meet demand. Yet, at least once a year they run out.   I've been on the fence as to their incompetence vs market manipulation.  There is no shortage of silver eagles in the secondary market  with prices varing from ~$2.50 - $6+ above spot.  Some of the Mint's dealers might be playing a perceived shortage for higher markup.  Currently the higher prices are found at APMEX and their banker is JP Morgan.

Hi Snowleopard, Just my guess but in the case of the Treasury I would lean heavily towards your incompetence idea rather than manipulation, mostly because of the gigantic premiums they charge over spot, so I believe them.

In the case of silver or gold bullion dealers, lets face it, they would; most not all, sell their mothers lead painted gold or silver, or RE's favorite tungsten. As in ALL MARKETS,   "CAVEAT EMPTOR"

Hi GO

Speaking of tungsten,  there are large quantities of silverplated fakes of most silver coins and bars now being mass produced in China.  The more carefull fakes require drilling, cutting, filing or ultrasound to detect, AFAIK.  This threat makes it risky for me to acquire silver bars or to accept them as barter.  Is there a low cost solution to this problem in sight?

With silver coins there is a ring the genuine article has that cannot be faked, assuming the coin is uncased and allowed to be dropped on a counter etc.   Unfortunately, i was often too close to gunfire and jetplanes in my youth and cannot always depend on my hearing. 

Perhaps i could use a modified musical instrument tuner or something?? 
"A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest." -  Simon and Garfunkel

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #319 on: January 21, 2013, 02:19:41 PM »
Quote
The mint is supposed to produce silver eagles to meet demand. Yet, at least once a year they run out.   I've been on the fence as to their incompetence vs market manipulation.  There is no shortage of silver eagles in the secondary market  with prices varing from ~$2.50 - $6+ above spot.  Some of the Mint's dealers might be playing a perceived shortage for higher markup.  Currently the higher prices are found at APMEX and their banker is JP Morgan.

Hi Snowleopard, Just my guess but in the case of the Treasury I would lean heavily towards your incompetence idea rather than manipulation, mostly because of the gigantic premiums they charge over spot, so I believe them.

In the case of silver or gold bullion dealers, lets face it, they would; most not all, sell their mothers lead painted gold or silver, or RE's favorite tungsten. As in ALL MARKETS,   "CAVEAT EMPTOR"

Hi GO

Speaking of tungsten,  there are large quantities of silverplated fakes of most silver coins and bars now being mass produced in China.  The more carefull fakes require drilling, cutting, filing or ultrasound to detect, AFAIK.  This threat makes it risky for me to acquire silver bars or to accept them as barter.  Is there a low cost solution to this problem in sight?

With silver coins there is a ring the genuine article has that cannot be faked, assuming the coin is uncased and allowed to be dropped on a counter etc.   Unfortunately, i was often too close to gunfire and jetplanes in my youth and cannot always depend on my hearing. 

Perhaps i could use a modified musical instrument tuner or something??

The only way I know of is to buy from a trusted dealer that has been around a while, is substantial, and has decades of satisfied customers. A few that come to mind I would suggest to you are Monex, Gold Money, Hans Tulving, Perth Mint, they have excellent reputations and have been used by me with satisfactory results. Another way to protect yourself is to buy only encapsulated products from established third part graders PCGS or NGC. I also go that route, pay a premium, and am confident of getting the premium back on resale if the world is still functioning reasonably well. Of course I cannot give you a guaranteed impeccable source, people change, businesses are bought out by new owners with less scruples etc. Another method I employ is to spread my purchases out and never by too much from any one source. Wish I could mention a source of complete guaranteed integrity, but the days of blind trust, and The words "My Word Is My Bond". have sadly become remnants of a by gone era. Pictured below is my choice of purchase with silver bullion and a brief description. Good Luck Snowleopard and don't get overly concerned, your chances of fraud are diminished greatly by this method, and never forget you are purchasing with Counterfeit Money.  :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:

   012 1 Oz Silver American Eagle $1 - Roll of 20 Coins, NGC Gem Uncirculated
DIRECT FROM MINT SEALED BOX

The United States Mint Silver Eagle $1 coin, is the world's best selling and most highly collected bullion coin.
We submitted fresh US Mint sealed green "Monster" boxes of silver eagles directly to Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC). NGC opened each of the sealed boxes and encapsulated the individual rolls in their new tamper-evident roll holder. The NGC holder houses all 20 coins and is sonically sealed with an accompanying certification label and a serial number that is registered in NGC's database. Not only does this certification provide assurance of the Gem Uncirculated quality, it also provides an independent guarantee of authenticity.

                                     
d 34480
d 34480

                                     
d 34479
d 34479

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #320 on: January 22, 2013, 06:57:10 PM »
Finally, a brief video from Jim Rickards explaining his view of the German Gold move and it's role in the Currency War.
He also points out how TPTB have removed it from the school curriculum and for the most part only the self taught understand it. 

  “Germany is saying that gold is money,” says Jim Rickards, author of Currency Wars: The Making of the Next Global Crisis. Otherwise, says Rickards, they would just leave the gold where it currently is stored.

And Germany isn’t alone. There’s talk that the Netherlands and Azerbaijan will also repatriate gold reserves.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/central-banks-repatriate-gold-affect-investors-170006263.html   :icon_study:

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News: 1794 Silver Dollar Sells For Record $10 million
« Reply #321 on: January 27, 2013, 06:52:03 AM »
$10 million at U.S. auction
Photo
Thu, Jan 24 2013

By Patricia Reaney

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A 1794 silver dollar, which many experts believe was the first such coin struck by the U.S. Mint, sold for a record $10 million at auction on Thursday.

The Flowing Hair Silver Dollar more than doubled the previous $4.1 million record for a coin set in 1999, auction house Stack's Bowers Galleries said.

Legend Numismatics, a rare-coin firm based in New Jersey, bought the coin, which was the highlight of the evening sale in New York that fetched a total of $17.2 million.

"We felt in our heart that this would be the very first coin to exceed the $10 million barrier in auction and were in fact prepared to bid much high in order to acquire this unique piece of history," the company said in a statement, adding it had no plans to sell the coin in the near future.

David Bowers, chairman emeritus of Stack's Bowers Galleries, said the coin has unique features that make it particularly valuable.

"It is the first American metal dollar struck and the finest known. You have these combinations coming together. No museum has an equal piece," he told Reuters.

The coin was part of the Cardinal Collection, amassed by the collector Martin Logies. Bowers described the collection as the "Old Masters" of coins struck during the earliest years of the U.S. Mint.

"I think it is extraordinary and I am very pleased that the first silver dollar is the first to top the $10 million threshold," said Logies, who purchased the coin three years ago.

The $10 million price includes the buyer's commission.

Like the buoyant art market, which is expecting another good year in 2013, Bowers said coins are a good investment, have a worldwide market and have risen steadily in value.

"We're continually surprised by surprises," he said, adding there are several million coin collectors around the globe. "They want to collect coins for appreciation, art, rarity and beauty."

The record-setting coin shows a profile of Miss Liberty facing right surrounded by stars representing each state in the union. The design was only used in 1794 and briefly the following year.

Another top seller in the sale of 94 lots was the 1792 Half Disme, which dates back to David Rittenhouse, the first director of the U.S. Mint. It fetched $975,000, excluding the 17.5 percent buyer's commission.

(Reporting by Patricia Reaney; Editing by Jill Serjeant and Eric Beech)
                                                     
                                                       
s1 reutersmedia net
s1 reutersmedia net

www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/25/us-coins-auction-record-idUSBRE90O06120130125   :icon_study:

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News: Gold and Silver are for Crazy People
« Reply #322 on: January 28, 2013, 04:31:45 AM »
Five Star Article ***** in this reader's opinion.  :emthup:

It wasn’t that long ago at a conference of people better off and smarter than me, that the subject turned to gold and monetary policy. I’ve since forgotten most of the conversation, but I remember very well the sentiment that seemed to prevail among those with whom I outed myself as a gold-bug lunatic (and I’m paraphrasing here):

“Gold is for crazed libertarians waiting for the apocalypse” — a pretty standard, ho-hum response that any gold bug is used to hearing (gold was somewhere below 500 dollars at the time I might add.)

But the line that really stuck with me, and that with hindsight is so incredibly meaningful for all sorts of reasons was: “I’m pretty sure that central banks are planning to sell all their gold.” All their gold? Did I miss something?

I was familiar with government agreements to sell some gold, but every last shiny gold bar? It was almost as if gold was that used recliner you couldn’t wait to dump on the curb for the garbage collector. That sentiment speaks to the long hard slog gold and silver bugs still have ahead of us to actually convince people who aren’t as insane as we of the need to hedge with real precious metal, since it's just a cold hard fact that less than 1% of peoples’ wealth is in real physical metal (note my use of the words real and physical.) The attitude encapsulated in the sentence “central banks will sell all their gold” is still alive and well, as far as I’m concerned, here in the U.S. All the more so, I might add, now that the stock market has clocked one of its longest periods of outperformance relative to gold and silver since the precious metals bull began (sorry to remind the die hards out there, but since October 2011 the S&P is up roughly 25%, while gold and silver are flat to down—in the case of silver negative to the tune of 25%.)

So yes, we, the gold and silver crazies are in the minority, still, somehow after everything the world has been through. This speaks to the power of persuasion, to the power of propaganda, in short, to the power of the very system that stood behind the notion that central banks would in no short time eliminate that barbarous relic, gold, completely, once and for all. And it makes me wonder, did western central banks in fact sell all of their gold? Is this why it is going to take seven years for the Germans to get some of theirs? Is this why a petition in Switzerland to find out “wo ist das Gold” is gaining traction?

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/fso/~3/jdU5F6JgkSM/gold-silver-crazy-people   :icon_study: :icon_study:

Offline monsta666

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Anyone who is interested in gold and silver may want to watch this video. James Tuck is predicting a rise in prices for gold and especially silver which he sees as particularly undervalued. Could be a reasonable bet in the medium-term seeing how inflated stock and bond prices are. As those asset classes are overvalued they are due a correction and once that comes and faith is lost in those asset including fiat currency then people will folk to gold and silver. Or so the argument goes...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/RSrFd5bHOcY&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/RSrFd5bHOcY&fs=1</a>

Offline Snowleopard

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #324 on: February 01, 2013, 09:29:12 PM »
I listened to Mr Turk in the recording above.  I mostly agree with him.  The bankers will have to "let the lid off" again soon. 

No doubt they will try the same tactic, let the prices rise, (helping the process by going long) then slam them down again (by selling their longs and buying massive naked shorts) to a slightly higher low. 

IMHO in silver at least, there is at least a 40% chance this tactic will fail due to lack of physical supply, massive physical demand, and a refusal of paper settlement.  (ie. "No Sir, you can keep your $xxx per ounce, I want the actual silver you owe me, even if you say it is only worth $xx per ounce!")

OTOH that still means there is a ~60% chance they kick the can again.  Those are my guesses as to the current odds, and even if close today they are in constant flux.  The bankers usually get to pick their time and have supercomputers and proprietary info to help them with current odds.

Look for some exitement in these markets in the months ahead.  If it doesn't get away from them this year, it will soon.
"A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest." -  Simon and Garfunkel

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #325 on: February 02, 2013, 05:22:07 AM »

Quote
IMHO in silver at least, there is at least a 40% chance this tactic will fail due to lack of physical supply, massive physical demand, and a refusal of paper settlement.  (ie. "No Sir, you can keep your $xxx per ounce, I want the actual silver you owe me, even if you say it is only worth $xx per ounce!")

True enough SL, the silver is going to be problem for them. The most favorable thing silver has going for it is the fact that the manipulators sold of all their holdings a while back, and cannot use it as a club weapon to threaten the poor folks who are trying to protect themselves as they often do with Gold.

Don't underestimate their current power in the paper silver market however. JP Manipulator has the biggest short position there ever amassed, and is brazen and destructive in their efforts to protect it. They have the balls and audacity to call it a hedge, I pray the lord I see the day those friggin pigs have to cover that short, with that ass hole JD blaming it all on some Rogue Trader under the radar. Yes, people believe that bull shit.    :(

Offline monsta666

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #326 on: February 02, 2013, 12:14:32 PM »
An interesting story that I thought gold bugs would want to know. With prices of gold being so dear one must be on high alert for gold fraud. Gold fraud can occur on not just the bars itself but whether the banking outlet actually physically carries the bars. I feel these points cannot be dismissed and even if people hold gold as a sacred commodity they would do well to remember that the bankers treachery knows no bounds so even a sacrosanct commodity such as gold can be used to perpetuate the fraud that occurs on a daily basis in the banking sector.

-- ---------------------------------------------------------------

The Disappearing Gold!!!

By Jeff Thomas
January 28, 2013

During the Cold War, Germany moved much of its gold to New York in case the USSR invaded Germany. It was assumed at that time that the US would be a safer storage location, and of course, they could always ask to have it returned if they wished.

But German citizens have become increasingly worried about the security of the 1,536 tonnes of German gold reputedly held at the Federal Reserve in New York. This has resulted in the Bundesbank pursuing repatriation of the gold, beginning with a request to view it in the basement of the Federal Reserve Building, where it is claimed to reside.

Of course, the German government had received periodic assurances from the Fed that the gold is there; however, the issue began to get a bit sticky recently, when the Fed refused a request for inspection.

The world then raised a collective eyebrow, and, whilst not panicking over this development just yet, closer attention has come to bear, not only on the Fed, but on any institution that is entrusted with the storage of gold for other parties.

Concern spread to Austria, where a question arose in Parliament as to where Austria’s gold is stored. The answer provided was that 80% of it (224.4 tonnes) is in the UK. (It was claimed that the reason for this is that, if a crisis of some kind were to occur, it could be more easily traded from London than from Vienna.)

Seems reasonable enough, except that the return of the gold to Austria, if it were requested, may be a bit difficult, as the gold seems to have been leased out by the UK.

To many, a second eyebrow might go up at this point. Lease out the wealth of another nation? Isn’t this a bit… irresponsible?

The New Gold Shuffle

Not to worry, it's done all the time. In fact, the practice has been endorsed by none other than Alan Greenspan, former Chairman of the Fed. The gold is leased to a bullion bank, which typically pays one percent interest to the Fed, with a promise to return it on a specified date. The bullion bank then sells the gold on the open market and uses the proceeds to buy Treasury bonds, which will net a three to four percent return.

The nicest thing about such an arrangement is that the lessor continues to claim it on his balance sheet as a line item: "gold and gold receivables." After all, an asset that we have leased out is still an asset, even if it has now been sold by the lessee.

In effect, this means that, if you bought a gold bar today, it is possible that it is a bar that was shipped from the Bundesbank to the Federal Reserve decades ago and is presently listed by the Fed on its balance sheet as "gold and gold receivables."

Both you and the Fed are claiming to possess the same gold bar. The fly in the ointment, of course, is that only one bar can be the actual bar. The other is a receivable and therefore is an asset on paper only. This, of course, means that there is less gold in the world than has been claimed. How much less? That’s anyone’s guess.

The New Risks

But even if it became generally known that the Fed (and others) are holding paper, rather than physical gold, couldn’t we carry on as before? What could go wrong? Here are some immediate possibilities:
  • If there were a dramatic rise in the price of gold and the lessor were to call in the return of the gold by the bullion bank, the bullion bank could easily lose far more than the small two to three percent margin it had been enjoying.
  • If there were a crash in the bond market and hyperinflation set in, the bonds that the bullion bank had purchased could become worthless.
  • If the nations who shipped their gold to London and New York for safekeeping were to request their return, the storage banks could only deliver if they were to purchase gold at the current rate. If that rate were significantly above the rate at which the gold had been leased to the bullion banks, the storage banks would sustain a significant, possibly unsustainable, loss.
That’s quite a bit of risk.

In the present market, there are any number of possible triggers that could cause the people of Germany, Austria, or a host of other nations to demand that their gold be returned home. Indeed, pressure is on the increase. The governments who have shipped out their gold for "safekeeping" would have a lot of explaining to do to their constituents, if the storage banks are not forthcoming.

So, is it time for the odiferous effluvium to hit the fan? Not quite yet. Before that occurs, there will still be some dancing around by the Fed and others.

The Fed has already stated, in so many words, "We're sorry, but we can't let you have all your gold at one time, but we'd be prepared to send it to you over a period of years."

For many observers, the present situation should be well beyond the point of the raised eyebrow. It should be glaringly apparent that the amount of gold presently claimed to be in storage in the world's banks is, to a greater or lesser extent, overstated.

Continuing the Charade

The Bundesbank should, of course, now say, "I'm afraid that’s not good enough. It's our gold. We've advised you how much of it we want back now, and we must insist that you produce it immediately."

If they were to take this perfectly logical step and the Fed refused, there could be a run on the banks, and, very possibly, within as short a period as twenty-four hours, a worldwide bank holiday might be declared with regard to gold.

However, this is not what will transpire. Neither logic nor sound banking practices are the object here. The object is to maintain the charade that exists within the banking community. The Bundesbank is just as fearful of a run as the Fed and will be only too willing to accept the Fed's terms.

What must be borne in mind is the root cause of the request. It was not the Bundesbank itself that originally wanted the transfer to take place; it was the German people who, quite rightly, have become distrustful of the fact that their gold has been in New York for so long and want to see it repatriated. It is not the banks who wish to correct the situation. Not one bank wishes to expose the inappropriate practices of any other bank. Their loyalty is to each other and not to their depositors.

So, is that it? Have we heard the last of this issue? I think not. The cat is out of the bag at this point, and the depositors' distrust and uncertainty will not be quelled by the counter-offer. Tension will continue to mount amongst depositors, and, at some point, the situation will reach an impasse.

All those who presently have gold in a banking institution would be prudent to keep an eye on the present situation. We might consider taking delivery of any gold we have in a bank, wherever it may be. Regardless of what form it is in, from ETFs to allocated gold, we would do well to assess the degree to which we feel our gold is at risk. In doing so, we may determine that a gold account is more at risk in, say, a New York or London bank than a Swiss bank. (Not all banks will be equal in terms of risk.)

If we do resolve to divest ourselves of bank-related precious metal holdings, it would be prudent to take action soon. (Clearly, those who attempt to remove their wealth the day after a run has occurred tend to do less well than those who attempt to remove their wealth the day before the run.)

We might also consider whether a possible run may become systemic, causing a bank holiday on all the bank's activities, thus freezing any currency that we may have on deposit. We may conclude that it is prudent to only retain in our bank enough money to allow cheques to clear – an amount sufficient to cover a few months' expenses.

In the near future, we may well find that a significant amount of gold that is claimed to exist in the world will "disappear." Whilst we cannot control this eventuality, we may be able to save the gold that is being held in our names from disappearing.

Offline WHD

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #327 on: February 02, 2013, 01:12:03 PM »
So Germans are not ripping down their Central Bank why? Same reason we aren't, I guess, here in America.

Can you feel the tension. The global economy seizing up, for lack of faith, for a dearth of trust. It's like one rash decision by any number of lunatics could tip the balance, like the bell curve of peak is more like culture is a fulcrum on top of a pyramid, most of humanity is rushing to one side of.   

Offline monsta666

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #328 on: February 02, 2013, 02:53:30 PM »
So Germans are not ripping down their Central Bank why? Same reason we aren't, I guess, here in America.

Can you feel the tension. The global economy seizing up, for lack of faith, for a dearth of trust. It's like one rash decision by any number of lunatics could tip the balance, like the bell curve of peak is more like culture is a fulcrum on top of a pyramid, most of humanity is rushing to one side of.   

Well the Germans did actually tear up their own central bank... Problem is it was replaced by even worse one that is the European Central Bank. Not only is the bank just as bad as the Fed but it is outside their borders and they have no control over the policies it runs (at least the US government has some influence on the Fed). News to me that Britain held Austrian gold so it would seem not only did Gordon Brown sell British gold he also sold Austrian gold.

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #329 on: February 02, 2013, 03:18:39 PM »
 
Quote
Problem is it was replaced by even worse one that is the European Central Bank. Not only is the bank just as bad as the Fed but it is outside their borders and they have no control over the policies it runs (at least the US government has some influence on the Fed).

Hi Monsta, Would like to voice my objection to that comment.

The ECB is the German Central Bank. The Fed is totally controlled buy the government and both governments are controlled in full by the respective banksters of both countries. What their charters say and the buildings they are located in are stage props only. I am afraid we are down the road of complete central authority more than most realize.   :'(

 

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