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Offline Eddie

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #375 on: April 01, 2013, 04:39:03 AM »
Or perhaps it began in 1913 with the creation of the Fed. That's where I'd mark the beginning.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #376 on: April 01, 2013, 05:01:06 AM »
Or perhaps it began in 1913 with the creation of the Fed. That's where I'd mark the beginning.

A sad day indeed Doc for the future fate of the dollar. May I note that they had much less power on that sad day than now, and that the dollar was still as good as Gold on that fateful day. It took them a few decades to remove Gold from it's role of providing integrity, stability, and honesty to the dollar. The day that the dollar was corrupted and debauched by the bankster whores that rule us was more important in my view for that reason. Your assertion that it was a day of mourning for the future of the dollar is true in my view as well, just not the final blow.

                                                           
US Indian Head Gold 5
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Offline monsta666

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Re: Gold & Silver News: If you had all the gold what size would your bar be?
« Reply #377 on: April 01, 2013, 07:49:27 AM »
How much gold is there in the world?

By Ed Prior
BBC News



Imagine if you were a super-villain who had taken control of all the world's gold, and had decided to melt it down to make a cube. How long would the sides be? Hundreds of metres, thousands even?

Actually, it's unlikely to be anything like that size.

Warren Buffett, one of the world's richest investors, says the total amount of gold in the world - the gold above ground, that is - could fit into a cube with sides of just 20m (67ft).

But is that all there is? And if so, how do we know?

A figure that is widely used by investors comes from Thomson Reuters GFMS, which produces an annual gold survey.

Their latest figure for all the gold in the world is 171,300 tonnes - which is almost exactly the same as the amount in our super-villain's imaginary cube.

A cube made of 171,300 tonnes would be about 20.7m (68ft) on each side. Or to put it another way, it would reach to 9.8m above ground level if exactly covering Wimbledon Centre Court.

But not everyone agrees with the GFMS figures.

Estimates range from 155,244 tonnes, marginally less than the GFMS figure, to about 16 times that amount - 2.5 million tonnes.

That bigger figure would make a cube of sides 50m (166ft) long, or a column of gold towering 143m above Wimbledon centre court.



So why are the figures so different?

Part of the reason is that gold has been mined for a very long time - more than 6,000 years, according to gold historian Timothy Green.
"All the gold that
has been mined
throughout history
is still in existence"


James Turk
Gold Money

The first gold coins were minted in about 550 BC under King Croesus of Lydia - a province in modern-day Turkey - and quickly became accepted payment for merchants and mercenary soldiers around the Mediterranean.

Up until 1492, the year Columbus sailed to America, GFMS estimates that 12,780 tonnes had been extracted.

But one investor who looked at the research done in this area, James Turk, the founder of Gold Money, discovered what he regarded as a series of over-estimates.

He believes that the primitive mining techniques used up to the Middle Ages mean that this figure is much too high, and that a more realistic total is just 297 tonnes.

Tonnes of gold

GFMS
James Turk
Pre-1492
12,780
297
Post-1492
158,520
154,947
Total
171,300
155,244

His figure for the overall amount of gold in the world is 155,244 tonnes - 16,056 tonnes, or 10% less, than the assessment by Thompson Reuters GFMS. A relatively small disparity, perhaps, but one that at today's prices comes to more than $950bn.

His conclusions are accepted by some investors but such is the feeling between rival analysts that one competitor described Turk's figures as an alternative to the GFMS's "in the same way that Jedi is an alternative to Christianity".

But there are others who think both sets of figures are too low.



"In Tutankhamen's tomb alone they found that his coffin was made from 1.5 tonnes of gold, so imagine the gold that was found in the other tombs that were ransacked before records were taken of them," says Jan Skoyles of gold investment firm The Real Asset Company.

While James Turk makes only minor adjustments to the GFMS figure for the amount of gold mined after 1492, Skoyles points out that even today China is "not particularly open" about how much gold it is mining.

And in some countries, such as Colombia, "there's a lot of illegal mining going on", she says.

She doesn't have an exact figure to offer, but one organisation that has tried to do some maths is the Gold Standard Institute.


There is much gold still in the ground, like here in Democratic Republic of Congo

Its experts believe that if we emptied our bank vaults and jewellery boxes, we'd find no less than 2.5 million tonnes of gold - though they admit that the evidence is somewhat sparse and the figure is a bit speculative.

So who's right?

Well, we don't know.

In the end, all these numbers are made up of estimates added to estimates added to yet more estimates. Maybe they're all way off.

The good news is that we are not likely to run out of gold any time soon. The US Geological Survey estimates there are 52,000 tonnes of minable gold still in the ground and more is likely to be discovered.

The bad news is that the way we use gold is starting to change.



Up to now it has never gone away. It has always been recycled.

"All the gold that has been mined throughout history is still in existence in the above-ground stock. That means that if you have a gold watch, some of the gold in that watch could have been mined by the Romans 2,000 years ago," says James Turk.

The way gold is being used in the technology industry, however, is different.

The British Geological Survey states that about 12% of current world gold production finds its way to this sector, where it is often used in such small quantities, in each individual product, that it may no longer be economical to recycle it.

In short, gold may be being "consumed" for the first time.

Offline WHD

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #378 on: April 01, 2013, 09:12:45 AM »
Gold is for hoarders and power fiends. If we have to have money, make it fiat, non-interest bearing, or many currencies, non-interest bearing. Make the money changers civil servants, basically.

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #379 on: April 01, 2013, 10:43:37 AM »
Gold is for hoarders and power fiends. If we have to have money, make it fiat, non-interest bearing, or many currencies, non-interest bearing. Make the money changers civil servants, basically.

You have it backwards WHD. Fiat is for hoarders that is why it has interest and usury attached.  Gold pays no interest and never has, because it is real money it needs no bankster's lure like interest to make it viable. Haven't you ever wondered why Gold pays no interest? It is because it is the real Mc Coy.

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #380 on: April 01, 2013, 02:22:58 PM »
Gold is for hoarders and power fiends. If we have to have money, make it fiat, non-interest bearing, or many currencies, non-interest bearing. Make the money changers civil servants, basically.

You have it backwards WHD. Fiat is for hoarders that is why it has interest and usury attached.  Gold pays no interest and never has, because it is real money it needs no bankster's lure like interest to make it viable. Haven't you ever wondered why Gold pays no interest? It is because it is the real Mc Coy.

I agree, gold has its place in my hedging strategy.  We keep half our PM's in the US and half in the UK.  I also keep resources as pounds Stirling in the Channel Islands. 

Gold retains it's value, so makes a good hedge.  However, it requires a buy who has what you want at that time.  Absent of a fiat currency to act as an intermediate it's hard to convert gold to the contents of your next meal.  If you don't have the resources to get though the crisis (food, friends and useful skills) then your gold will likely end up in a museum in a few thousand years, with a sign below it saying, "discovered in the dig of an abandoned house, circa the oil crash."

We do keep a few hundred silver rounds as a much more effective store of small, easier-to-trade value.


Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #381 on: April 01, 2013, 04:36:43 PM »
Quote
We do keep a few hundred silver rounds as a much more effective store of small, easier-to-trade value.

Yes, silver is just great for small every day transactions, Gold for the larger and wealth storage. Most Gold bugs, such as myself, own both, "Poor Man's Gold" is a common name given silver.


Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News: Mr Kunstler Writing Lots About Gold This Morning
« Reply #382 on: April 02, 2013, 03:58:10 AM »
James Howard Kunstler wrote a great article today with important happenings in the gold world that I wish to place on my Gold & Silver thread due to it's relevance. Will only post an excerpt as Surly usually posts the entire articles on his thread. It gave me great pleasure to see Mr. Kunstler quoting Jim Willie, a gentleman whose work I recently introduced on the Diner.


The effort by Russia, China, and others to isolate and neutralize the US dollar as the world's so-called reserve currency by systematically converting holdings of US Treasury bills into gold wherever possible, and to thereby diminish the baleful influence of the Imperial US behemoth. They are assisted in this endeavor by the US itself in its bungling efforts to manipulate and suppress gold prices, as well as our prevarications as to exactly how much gold remains in the various places it is supposed to be stashed - Fort Knox, West Point, and the sub-basement labyrinth of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York - generating ever-greater uncertainty about the extant world gold supply, and hence its value relative to things like currencies. Nobody here can even ask the right questions.
     While The New York Times focuses on the momentous issue of real estate sales in the Hamptons, Russia and China will build gold-backed currencies aimed at monopolizing the trade in mineral and energy resources, leaving America and much of Europe to freeze in the dark and sit on gasoline lines at the empty filling stations. For a while that will work to the East's advantage - until it becomes clear that the entropic contraction of industrial economies is for everyone as we veer into a literal world made by hand. That's right, sooner or later Russia and China will get theirs, too. But in the meantime they have the ability to make the story a lot more interesting.

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/clusterfucknation/~3/9gceKq_WTCU/are-you-going-to-entropy-faire.html  :icon_study: :icon_study:

Offline WHD

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Illuminati Message Makers in Hyperdrive
« Reply #383 on: April 02, 2013, 06:39:22 AM »
GO,

Stockman surprises. He got it mostly right, telling the truth more or less and the ILLUMINATI message makers are in hyper-drive, filling the airwaves with denunciation and otherwise happy joy joy.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-02/stockman-sundown-belied-by-stocks-showing-morning-for-investors.html

[sinppet]
David Stockman’s warning that the Federal Reserve’s quantitative easing is steering the world’s largest economy toward a crash is at odds with nine quarters of job growth, record stock prices and unprecedented corporate earnings, former fiscal and monetary policy makers said.
   
Stockman, who served as budget director for President Ronald Reagan, wrote in a March 31 opinion piece in the New York Times that Fed policies in the aftermath of the financial crisis flooded equity markets with cash while weakening the “Main Street economy” and creating an “unsustainable bubble.”

That doesn’t square with soaring U.S. stock prices and company profits that have emboldened investors. Bond buying that pushed the Fed’s balance sheet to a record $3.21 trillion and other unprecedented actions by Chairman Ben S. Bernanke “saved the world,” David Blanchflower, a former Bank of England policy maker, said in response to Stockman’s assertions.

“The reason that stocks have erased all their losses is entirely because of QE,” said Blanchflower, who teaches at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, and served on the BOE’s Monetary Policy Committee from 2006 to 2009. “To argue that that’s independent of the actions of the Fed shows no understanding of what the Fed is doing and what they did.”

The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index has soared 131 percent since March 2009, surpassing its previous record last month, as profits surged and the Fed pumped more than $2.3 trillion into the economy through monetary easing. The rally represents the biggest bull market since the eight-year advance that added 302 percent through 1998, data compiled by Bloomberg show.
Stocks, Profits

“You look at the market and you certainly don’t get the message that the sky is falling,” said Jared Bernstein, former chief economist to Vice President Joe Biden and a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities in Washington. “Recent gains in the stock market are explained by very high corporate profits and very low interest rates.”
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 06:41:21 AM by WHD »

Offline WHD

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #384 on: April 02, 2013, 06:46:34 AM »
Gold is for hoarders and power fiends. If we have to have money, make it fiat, non-interest bearing, or many currencies, non-interest bearing. Make the money changers civil servants, basically.

You have it backwards WHD. Fiat is for hoarders that is why it has interest and usury attached.  Gold pays no interest and never has, because it is real money it needs no bankster's lure like interest to make it viable. Haven't you ever wondered why Gold pays no interest? It is because it is the real Mc Coy.

GO,

There's no point hoarding a non-interest paper fiat currency, because if there is a shortage, you just print more. If there's a surplus, you pull it out. Sound monetary policy. If we switch to gold now the BRICS countries are going to eat us for breakfast.  :coffee:

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #385 on: April 02, 2013, 06:51:04 AM »
Quote
GO,

Stockman surprises. He got it mostly right, telling the truth more or less and the ILLUMINATI message makers are in hyper-drive, filling the airwaves with denunciation and otherwise happy joy joy.

Yes WHD, it is always nice to see a piggy admit some sins, and come clean, And do some piggy squealing on his fellow swine.

THANKS A MILLION, for the video you sent my way. Blew my head off, Space ships falling into black holes, The mushroom man, he was just beautiful, Relationship problems between galaxies, man, you got to warn before you lift me off into space like that again.

That lady that figured out we were the prey all our existence, rather than the hunters, and the nightmares of the babies today still reflecting it is still with me. Might sound silly, but I get a strange feeling we are still prey :-\

Thanks again you opened up a whole new topic for me to pursue, there sure were a very large number of grey cells in that chat.  :emthup: :emthup: :emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

Offline WHD

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #386 on: April 02, 2013, 06:57:06 AM »
Quote
GO,

Stockman surprises. He got it mostly right, telling the truth more or less and the ILLUMINATI message makers are in hyper-drive, filling the airwaves with denunciation and otherwise happy joy joy.

Yes WHD, it is always nice to see a piggy admit some sins, and come clean, And do some piggy squealing on his fellow swine.

THANKS A MILLION, for the video you sent my way. Blew my head off, Space ships falling into black holes, The mushroom man, he was just beautiful, Relationship problems between galaxies, man, you got to warn before you lift me off into space like that again.

That lady that figured out we were the prey all our existence, rather than the hunters, and the nightmares of the babies today still reflecting it is still with me. Might sound silly, but I get a strange feeling we are still prey :-\

Thanks again you opened up a whole new topic for me to pursue, there sure were a very large number of grey cells in that chat.  :emthup: :emthup: :emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

Glad you dug it. I assume you are talking about the Trialogue. I listened to them all when I was whoring for big bank. The only thing that made it possible. All that intellectual freedom though, didn't conspire to keep me a whore, for sure. LOL 

bob

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Re: Gold & Silver News: If you had all the gold what size would your bar be?
« Reply #387 on: April 02, 2013, 07:49:16 PM »




I like what beppe grillo had to say on this.... They mine the gold out of the ground and take it somewhere else and put it in the ground under the bank, so why not just build the bank on top of the fucking mine site and save all the trouble?

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News: The Assault On Gold — Paul Craig Roberts
« Reply #388 on: April 06, 2013, 03:57:09 AM »
The Assault On Gold — Paul Craig Roberts

For Americans, financial and economic Armageddon might be close at hand. The evidence for this conclusion is the concerted effort by the Federal Reserve and its dependent financial institutions to scare people away from gold and silver by driving down their prices.

When gold prices hit $1,917.50 an ounce on August 23, 2011, a gain of more than $500 an ounce in less than 8 months, capping a rise over a decade from $272 at the end of December 2000, the Federal Reserve panicked. With the US dollar losing value so rapidly compared to the world standard for money, the Federal Reserve’s policy of printing $1 trillion annually in order to support the impaired balance sheets of banks and to finance the federal deficit was placed in danger. Who could believe the dollar’s exchange rate in relation to other currencies when the dollar was collapsing in value in relation to gold and silver.

The Federal Reserve realized that its massive purchase of bonds in order to keep their
prices high (and thus interest rates low) was threatened by the dollar’s rapid loss of value in terms of gold and silver. The Federal Reserve was concerned that large holders of US dollars, such as the central banks of China and Japan and the OPEC sovereign investment funds, might join the flight of individual investors away from the US dollar, thus ending in the fall of the dollar’s foreign exchange value and thus decline in US bond and stock prices.

Intelligent people could see that the US government could not afford the long and numerous wars that the neoconservatives were engineering or the loss of tax base and consumer income from offshoring millions of US middle class jobs for the sake of executive bonuses and shareholder capital gains. They could see what was in the cards, and began exiting the dollar for gold and silver.

Central banks are slower to act. Saudi Arabia and the oil emirates are dependent on US protection and do not want to anger their protector. Japan is a puppet state that is careful in its relationship with its master. China wanted to hold on to the American consumer market for as long as that market existed. It was individuals who began the exit from the US dollar.

When gold topped $1,900, Washington put out the story that gold was a bubble. The presstitute media fell in line with Washington’s propaganda. “Gold looking a bit bubbly” declared CNN Money on August 23, 2011.

The Federal Reserve used its dependent “banks too big to fail” to short the precious metals markets. By selling naked shorts in the paper bullion market against the rising demand for physical possession, the Federal Reserve was able to drive the price of gold down to $1,750 and keep it more or less capped there until recently, when a concerted effort on April 2-3, 2013, drove gold down to $1,557 and silver, which had approached $50 per ounce in 2011, down to $27.

The Federal Reserve began its April Fool’s assault on gold by sending the word to brokerage houses, which quickly went out to clients, that hedge funds and other large investors were going to unload their gold positions and that clients should get out of the precious metal market prior to these sales. As this inside information was the government’s own strategy, individuals cannot be prosecuted for acting on it. By this operation, the Federal Reserve, a totally corrupt entity, was able to combine individual flight with institutional flight. Bullion prices took a big hit, and bullishness departed from the gold and silver markets. The flow of dollars into bullion, which threatened to become a torrent, was stopped.

For now it seems that the Fed has succeeded in creating wariness among Americans about the virtues of gold and silver, and thus the Federal Reserve has extended the time that it can print money to keep the house of cards standing. This time could be short or it could last a couple of years.

However, for the Russians and Chinese, whose central banks have more dollars than they any longer want, and for the 1.3 billion Indians in India, the low dollar price for gold that the Federal Reserve has engineered is an opportunity. They see the opportunity that the Federal Reserve has given them to purchase gold at $350-$400 an ounce less than two years ago as a gift.

The Federal Reserve’s attack on bullion is an act of desperation that, when widely recognized, will doom its policy.

As I have explained previously, the orchestrated move against gold and silver is to protect the exchange value of the US dollar. If bullion were not a threat, the government would not be attacking it.

The Federal Reserve is creating $1 trillion new dollars per year, but the world is moving away from the use of the dollar for international payments and, thus, as reserve currency. The result is an increase in supply and a decrease in demand. This means a falling exchange value of the dollar, domestic inflation from rising import prices, and a rising interest rate and collapsing bond, stock and real estate markets.

The Federal Reserve’s orchestration against bullion cannot ultimately succeed. It is designed to gain time for the Federal Reserve to be able to continue financing the federal budget deficit by printing money and also to keep interest rates low and debt prices high in order to support the banks’ balance sheets.

When the Federal Reserve can no longer print due to dollar decline which printing would make worse, US bank deposits and pensions could be grabbed in order to finance the federal budget deficit for couple of more years. Anything to stave off the final catastrophe.

The manipulation of the bullion market is illegal, but as government is doing it the law will not be enforced. 

By its obvious and concerted attack on gold and silver, the US government could not give any clearer warning that trouble is approaching. The values of the dollar and of financial assets denominated in dollars are in doubt.

Those who believe in government and those who believe in deregulation will be proved equally wrong. The United States of America is past its zenith. As I predicted early in the 21st century, in 20 years the US will be a third world country. We are halfway there.


http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/04/the-assault-on-gold-paul-craig-roberts/  :icon_study: :icon_study:


URL to article: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/04/the-assault-on-gold-paul-craig-roberts/


Offline RE

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Re: Gold & Silver News: The Assault On Gold — Paul Craig Roberts
« Reply #389 on: April 06, 2013, 04:18:23 AM »
Gold as an Asset Class is extremely subject to psychology of perceived value.  It does not have that much real utility.  "Manipulation" is all about playing with perceived Value.  In any event, as with all Asset Classes that are leveraged (and most Gold is even if yours is not) it is subject to Margin Calls. If large Gold Holders are forced by Margin Calls to Unload in a Hurry, it is no different than holders of Reno Real Estate forced to Unload. The price drops in a hurry.

I won't buy Gold at any Price.  I will Pan it Up and Sell it though if the price is high enough to justify the time spent doing so.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

 

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