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Offline WHD

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #405 on: April 14, 2013, 06:38:32 AM »
Quote
none were hurt more than one-time hedge fund idol John Paulson, who according to estimates, lost more than $300 million of his own money in one day.

The particular wording of this statement I like most is, "his own money." Mr Treasury Secretary, caring so much about his country, having helped sell his country out to his scum bag Wall Street, Goldman Sachs cronies. That he is "worth" 9.2 billion now is 9.2 billion dollars worth of NUTS. That sounds to me like about 9.2 billion lives of grubs being parasitized by wasp larva, Karmic-ally speaking. Justice will prevail, lol.

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #406 on: April 14, 2013, 06:56:17 AM »
Quote
none were hurt more than one-time hedge fund idol John Paulson, who according to estimates, lost more than $300 million of his own money in one day.

The particular wording of this statement I like most is, "his own money." Mr Treasury Secretary, caring so much about his country, having helped sell his country out to his scum bag Wall Street, Goldman Sachs cronies. That he is "worth" 9.2 billion now is 9.2 billion dollars worth of NUTS. That sounds to me like about 9.2 billion lives of grubs being parasitized by wasp larva, Karmic-ally speaking. Justice will prevail, lol.

Hi WHD, I share your views entirely on the Mr Paulson you are referring to, but this gentleman is another with the same last name. Easy to confuse but this one has no government position; he is a world famous hedge fund manager such as Soro's, Jimmy Rogers, etc.

Offline WHD

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #407 on: April 14, 2013, 07:07:08 AM »
Quote
none were hurt more than one-time hedge fund idol John Paulson, who according to estimates, lost more than $300 million of his own money in one day.

The particular wording of this statement I like most is, "his own money." Mr Treasury Secretary, caring so much about his country, having helped sell his country out to his scum bag Wall Street, Goldman Sachs cronies. That he is "worth" 9.2 billion now is 9.2 billion dollars worth of NUTS. That sounds to me like about 9.2 billion lives of grubs being parasitized by wasp larva, Karmic-ally speaking. Justice will prevail, lol.

Hi WHD, I share your views entirely on the Mr Paulson you are referring to, but this gentleman is another with the same last name. Easy to confuse but this one has no government position; he is a world famous hedge fund manager such as Soro's, Jimmy Rogers, etc.

My bad. I though Hank Paulson's first name was John. Whatever, peas in a pod.

So is it John or Hank who was talking about moving to Puerto Rico to shield his assets? Cuz I think I made the same mistake some time ago, just as certain, railing about John as Hank, when that story came out. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut about financial matters? Nothing worse than coming off as a loud-mouth ass who doesn't know what he's talking about.  :emthdown:

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #408 on: April 14, 2013, 07:26:11 AM »
It was the hedge fund Paulson escaping for tax reasons WHD.

Don't be silly, all comments are always welcome. You sure had the other Paulson pegged correctly.  We all make mistakes, EXCEPT of course the DM.  ;D

Offline RE

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Mike Baloney Shills for Gold
« Reply #409 on: April 14, 2013, 02:01:42 PM »
Love how when the PMs market takes a hit, the Gold Shills appear IN FORCE on Zero Hedge to reiterate this is a "Buying Opportunity". Mike is "aggravated" by the pullbacks, but he'll stick it out to the bitter end! LOL.

RE

Mike Maloney: Today's Low Gold & Silver Prices Are Not Realistic
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/14/2013 13:27 -0400

Broken SystemCentral BanksDeficit SpendingPrecious MetalsPurchasing PowerReal estateReality


Submitted by Adam Taggart of Peak Prosperity,

During this very tumultuous week for precious metals prices, Chris sat down with Mike Maloney, founder and owner of GoldSilver.com, one of the world's largest bullion dealers.

Mike is a true scholar of monetary history. His reasons for getting into the bullion business have their roots in a very predictable cycle that has happened time and again over the centuries (more accurately millennia):

1.A new monetary system is introduced, based on sound money (most commonly, using gold and/or silver)
2.Currency (e.g., paper bills backed by sound money) is introduced to faciliate trade and commerce
3.Governments begin to tinker with ways to 'print' more currency than can be fully backed (e.g., coin clipping, partially-backed notes, FRNs)
4.A false prosperity ensues. Those closest to the new money creation benefit most and debase the currency further to forward their advantage.
5.Reality begins to catch up with this deficit spending and the purchasing power of the currency weakens dramatically.
6.The monetary system collapses under too many claims on a limited pool of sound money.
7.Eventually, a new monetary system backed by sound money rises from the ashes (see Step 1, above).
Mike believes that we are currently experiencing Step 6 and that we will witness the birth of a new monetary regime within the next ten years.

What makes this moment in history unique is that all past monetary regime collapses have happened regionally. This is the first time in human history in which all the world's major currencies are collapsing together. Which is why he is so passionate about owning gold and silver.

In his opinion, we will soon witness the greatest transfer of wealth ever seen, as countries worldwide realize they need to revert to monetary systems backed by sound money (i.e., the precious metals). Those acquiring gold and silver beforehand will not only preserve their wealth as existing fiat currencies are extinguished, but will see staggering increases in their purchasing power. Those interested in learning more of Mike's specific vision can watch Episode One of his new Hidden Secrets of Money video series. (Chris and I received advance screenings of the next few episodes, which are excellent in terms of explaining the processes and shortcomings of our current monetary system.)

On the Tightening Physical Market for Gold & Silver

What most people do not understand is that the price of gold and silver are not determined by how much gold and silver is being sold. It is how many gold and silver IOUs are being sold. And you can write as many IOUs, futures contracts and options, as you want. Those are unlimited. The supply, though, of physical gold and silver is quite limited, and so when people actually start asking for it and they want the physical, then there is a divergence of the paper price versus the physical price, and we are seeing that right now.

 

We are in a back-order situation with all of the suppliers. Spreads are going up. Silver eagles cost about fifty cents over spot more than they normally cost because all of the suppliers have had to raise their price to try and find the supply/demand equilibrium that the markets are for. The markets are there to try and find a supply/demand equilibrium, so then price is the arbitrator. Price rises; that draws more supply and reduces demand. Price falls; that reduces supply and increases demand.

 

So the price discovery mechanism of the markets is what is supposed to ensure that things are in equilibrium. We have this broken system where there are a few big players that manipulate the market, and it always shows up when shortages start developing in the physical market. You know that the price of gold and silver right now are too low to be realistic. And the good thing about that is that it cannot last.

On the Hidden Wealth Transfer Caused by Inflation Targeting

Everybody got in an uproar over [the Cyprus bank deposit haircuts], but nobody gets in an uproar over the central banks targeting 3% inflation. That compounds out to 34% of your wealth that they are confiscating every decade. People got mad because it happened all at once and they could see it. One day their bank account said one thing; the next day it said another thing. With this insidious confiscation known as inflation, this is the inflation tax – you do not see it because the number on your bank account might say that you could make a deposit and if there are no fees or anything on that deposit, $100,000 deposit a decade ago still stays $100,000. Except gasoline went from $1.25 to near $5.  Measured in gasoline, you lost 75% of that $100,000, but it still says $100,000.

 

So the central banks targeting this 3% inflation rate is a wealth transfer from the public to the financial sector.

On the Recent Price Weakness in the Precious Metals

You do not want to stay in just one investment class your whole lifetime. But it is a very powerful tool to be able to measure these classes against each other and then jump from an over-valued asset class to an under-valued asset class at the appropriate time for the road to true wealth. And it only requires a few big decisions during your lifetime.

 

Now, when I discovered wealth cycles, I was looking at the Dow Gold ratio and thinking this thing has a cycle. I made another check of the Gold Dow ratio instead the Dow Gold ratio, and put them on top of each other. Lo and behold – there is a cycle. It has a positive side and a negative side. If you are doing a Dow Gold ratio, you jump from being invested in paper assets like stocks and then back to gold for the long investment waves. I would say it is somewhere between 8 and 20 years you spend in an asset class, and you can do this with anything. If you measure your house in how many barrels of oil it is worth over a century and you jump back and forth from being invested in oil wells to being invested in real estate, it is the same thing as being invested in gold or the Dow. It is a very powerful tool that I believe has a high degree of predictability and safety to it, if you do not let the short-term noise flush you out.

 

Right now we are in consolidation. Gold has been chopping sideways for 19 months now, and it has worn people out. But basically gold is up. It is not up from 19 months ago when it was nearing $2,000, but it sure is up over the last decade. So I do not let the short-term noise affect me now that I know that we have not reached the point where the price of gold equals the points on the Dow. Right now gold’s value is one-ninth of the Dow, and so I know that it needs to rise by a factor of 18 against stocks before I need to get worried and start watching gold.

 

So I am very comfortable in these pullbacks. It gets a little aggravating, but still it does not bother me that much and is definitely not going to flush me out.
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Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #410 on: April 15, 2013, 03:50:28 AM »
Gold & Silver in a free fall again this morning. Gold down 100 silver down over 3.00. Stocks look to open sharply lower also, stocks lower everywhere.

                                                               
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Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News: Gold crushed by 400 tonnes of Selling Friday
« Reply #411 on: April 15, 2013, 04:21:28 AM »
ROSS NORMAN - Gold crushed by 400 tonnes or $20 billion of selling on COMEXy 400 tonnes

The gold futures markets opened in New York on Friday 12th April to a monumental 3.4 million ounces (100 tonnes) of gold selling of the June futures contract (see below) in what proved to be only an opening shot. The selling took gold to the technically very important level of $1540 which was not only the low of 2012, it was also seen by many as the level which confirmed the ongoing bull run which dates back to 2000. In many traders minds it stood as a formidable support level... the line in the sand.

Two hours later the initial selling, rumoured to have been routed through Merrill Lynch's floor team, by a rather more significant blast when the floor was hit by a further 10 million ounces of selling (300 tonnes) over the following 30 minutes of trading. This was clearly not a case of disappointed longs leaving the market - it had the hallmarks of a concerted 'short sale', which by driving prices sharply lower in a display of 'shock & awe' - would seek to gain further momentum by prompting others to also sell as their positions as they hit their maximum acceptable losses or so-called 'stopped-out' in market parlance - probably hidden the unimpeachable (?) $1540 level.

 The selling was timed for optimal impact with New York at its most liquid, while key overseas gold markets including London were open and able feel the impact. The estimated 400 tonne of gold futures selling in total equates to 15% of annual gold mine production - too much for the market to readily absorb, especially with sentiment weak following gold's non performance in the wake of Japanese QE, a nuclear threat from North Korea and weakening US economic data. The assault to the short side was essentially saying "you are long... and wrong".

Futures trading is performed on a margined basis - that is to say you have to stump up about 5% of the actual cost of the gold itself making futures trades a highly geared 'opportunity' of about 20:1 - easy profit and also loss ! Futures trading is not a product for widows and orphans. The CME's 10% reduction in the required gold margins in November 2012 from $9133/contract to just $7425/contract made the market more accessible to those wishing both to go long or as it transpired, to go short. Soon after we saw the first serious assault to the downside in Dec 2012, followed by further bouts in January 2013 - modest in size compared to the recent shorting but effective - it laid the ground for what was to follow. One fund in particular, based in Stamford Connecticut, was identified as the previous shorter of gold and has a history of being caught on the wrong side of the law on a few occasions. As badies go - they fit the bill nicely.

 The value of the 400 tonnes of gold sold is approximately $20 billion but because it is margined, this short bet would require them to stump up just $1b. The rationale for the trade was clear - excessively bullish forecasts by many banks in Q4 seemed unsupported by follow through buying. The modest short selling in Jan 2013 had prompted little response from the longs - raising questions about their real commitment. By forcing the market lower the Fund sought to prompt a cascade or avalanche of additional selling, proving the lie ; predictably some newswires were premature in announcing the death of the gold bull run doing, in effect, the dirty work of the shorters in driving the market lower still.

This now leaves the gold market in an interesting conundrum - the shorter is now nursing a large gold position and, like the longs also exposed - that is to say the market is polarised between longs and shorts and they cannot both be right. Either the gold bulls - like in a game of tug-of-war - pull back and prompt the shorters to panic and buy back - or they do nothing, in which case the endless stories about the "end of gold" will see a steady further erosion in prices. At the end of the day it is a question of who has got the biggest guns - the shorts have made their play - let's see if there is any response from the longs to defend their position.   

Ross Norman

This story is provided by Sharps Pixley, for more information and content please visit: www.SharpsPixley.com

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #412 on: April 15, 2013, 08:48:37 AM »
I'm heading to the coin store on my lunch break.   :coffee:

Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #413 on: April 15, 2013, 09:05:03 AM »
I'm heading to the coin store on my lunch break.   :coffee:

Hopefully to buy Haniel, looks like a great entry point. Figure the Comex will raise margins, blaming the move on the volatility and that will be it; but who knows. The fiat crowd with their options, futures, leverage etc have turned all the markets into a gambling den in  the short term.  Posting an article on Gold and the stench of the smackdown by J H Kunstler, you might find it interesting. Will be up in a moment.










Offline g

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Re: Gold & Silver News: Smack Down Time J H Kunstler
« Reply #414 on: April 15, 2013, 09:09:35 AM »
 
Smack Down Time
By James Howard Kunstler
on April 15, 2013 7:46 AM

     What a humdinger last week was in a money world that is chugging toward maximum velocity and turbulence. Readers know (and may be sick of hearing) that I'm allergic to conspiracy theories, but my allergy is not absolute or total and there are excellent reasons to believe that the smack down of gold and silver was an orchestrated event. By whom? So far, in the opaque realm of paper gold sales, we don't know, except that it was a 500-ton dump that set off the larger skid, and it is even quite possible, as one anonymous wag put it on James Sinclair's website, that the buyer and seller were virtually the same entity -- meaning that the probable naked short transaction only amounted to a mere bookkeeping jot when all was said and done.
    Anyway, the 500-ton all-at-once dump could only be calculated to drive the price down. Any rational strategic sale of so much gold would be parceled out in smaller amounts over time so as not to drastically impair the sales revenue, as this sale did. And, by the way, who even has the roughly $25 billion holdings in paper gold besides a major government, a major central bank, or one of the Fed's Too Big To Fail handmaidens (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley)? Or who could afford to eat the $billion-plus loss on the smacked-down sales value? In other words, the usual suspects.
        I hate the term The Powers That Be, with its odors of recycled paranoia and lumpen extremism, but signs of collusion abounded last week. First, on Wednesday, Goldman Sachs issued an advisory to short gold as the price flirted with $1600/oz. Then on Thursday, The New York Times planted a front-page story headlined: "Gold, Long a Secure Investment, Loses Its Luster." The story featured a quote by supreme market manipulator and world-class schmikler George Soros: "Gold was destroyed as a safe haven, proved to be unsafe," Mr. Soros said in an interview last week with The South China Morning Post of Hong Kong. "Because of the disappointment, most people are reducing their holdings of gold."

   Well, there you have it. Soros sez: Gold = shit. If you get some on your shoe, scrape it off. All that set the stage for the Friday smack down. Notice how falling gold and silver prices make the US dollar look good -- it takes fewer dollars to buy more precious metal. The dollar must therefore be sound! And this is in the interest of whom? Say, perhaps, a Federal Reserve busy systematically melting away the value of dollars through so-called quantitative easing (money "printing" or  promiscuous credit creation) plus financial repression (interest rate chicanery), and also a US government so deep underwater on its debt obligations that Treasury Secretary Jack Lew shares office space with the giant squid of the Aleutian Trench.
    To complicate matters, the day of the gold smash, rumors flew of a plan by the Cyprus government to sell off its relatively small gold holdings to pay off its EU debt -- didn't happen -- but the rumor had the effect of further queering the gold price some more by implying that the EU would soon come calling on all the PIIGS nations to settle up their vigs with yellow metal.
    Thursday, interesting things happened in another ring of the circus. The novelty investment called Bitcoin, having developed a hockey-stick chart profile, shooting up from about $60 a month ago to $260, got smacked smartly back down to $60. It had been attracting a lot of attention as a shelter from international monetary shenanigans -- and hypothetically as an eventual rival to funny-money central bank currencies. Bitcoin is a web-based species of virtual "money" invented by a shady character (or cohort of characters) called Satoshi Nakamoto whose true persona remains mysterious. Bitcoin's supposed virtue is that it can't be confiscated by governments -- though experienced programmers know any website can be hacked -- or otherwise meddled with, making it a more reliable store of value than the traditional "safe harbor"
 investments such as sovereign bonds and precious metals. Well, okay, but it raises a couple of questions: 1) Does the world need an even more abstract form of "money" than fiat currencies, CDOs, Fannie Mae promissory notes, and JC Penny stock? I don't think so. If anything, the world needs more tangible instruments to represent a store of value, a medium of exchange, and an index of price. Bitcoin is little more than a bundle of algorithms. Granted, math helps with the management of money, but is math "money?" 2) what happens if you can't get online to access your Bitcoin "wallet?" Is Bitcoin, after all, just another example of the techno-narcissism infecting contemporary culture?
     That idea is just off the radar screens of Bitcoin pimps such as Jon Matonis of Forbes Magazine who said last week that "civilization won't regress to the state of having no electricity." Really? You think so? Just watch. Electric grids all over the world are aging and decrepit -- the USA's in particular -- and the capital is not there to renovate them. And perhaps you haven't noticed the gathering scarcity problem with fossil fuels. You bet society could regress to, first, spotty electrical service and then possibly no electricity at all in many places. But that is an extreme case because in the meantime all it would take is a "denial of service" incident to render Bitcoin useless -- and the mysterious Mr or Ms Nakamoto him/her/itself induced a half-day time-out in Bitcoin last week, taking its Mt.Gox trading platform off-line.
     The week ahead in world money matters looks bloody and gruesome. Japan is committing financial hara-kiri by central bank desperation. In artificially suppressing the gold price, the American Powers That Be (yccchhh....) give China, Russia and other rivals the opportunity to buy gold cheaply, and to do so by dumping some of their US Treasury holdings, weakening the dollar's international exchange value -- which the gold smack down was supposed to enhance! China and Russia have both been steadily accumulating their gold holdings in plain sight, with the possible motive of backing currencies with more appeal in international trade settlements than the dodgy US dollar.
     The weeks ahead could be a bloodbath for the four horsemen of monetary apocalypse: the dollar, the Japanese yen, the Euro, and Great Britain's pound -- that is, the core of the so-called advanced economies of the world. What a prankster history is!

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/clusterfucknation/~3/sig8Rm3erzw/smack-down-time.html   :icon_study: :icon_study: :icon_study:

« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 09:14:11 AM by Golden Oxen »

Offline Eddie

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Re: Kunstler on Gold Smackdown
« Reply #415 on: April 15, 2013, 09:24:59 AM »
A very plausible explanation. The thing is that the seeds have been planted for the biggest world wide deflationary collapse of all time. Gold is not likely to weather that storm without more downside.
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #416 on: April 15, 2013, 10:07:13 AM »
Gotta love kuntsler, such a way with words. he only neglected to mention or didnt know of the massive amount of gold Soros had bought himself in recent months, as well as what he said in recent days.
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Offline g

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Re: Kunstler on Gold Smackdown
« Reply #417 on: April 15, 2013, 10:19:03 AM »
A very plausible explanation. The thing is that the seeds have been planted for the biggest world wide deflationary collapse of all time. Gold is not likely to weather that storm without more downside.

Perhaps, it would seem so,at least at the beginning of such an event. There is another body of opinion on the matter, of which I am a member, that thinks because of it's lack of counter party risk, the fact that it is not someone's liability, will make it much sought after after the inititial panic out of everything.

My mentors on Gold, C.V. Myers, William Tehan, Dr Franz Pick, were of the opinion that Gold would be the most sought after asset in the world in a deflationary bust because it was in essence the only REAL CASH. I realize it is a debatable point but it has merits in my opinion.

Offline monsta666

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #418 on: April 15, 2013, 10:48:00 AM »
I would not completely discount the possibility that in the event of a deflationary collapse gold would hold its value relative to other assets. In other words if the value of other assets deflate by 90% while gold only deflates by 80% then gold would become strong relative to other assets such as real estate etc. In even this case the gold bug would come on top (relatively speaking) as their investment did not go as far south as other investors. They could then monetise the gold and buy the other now cheaper assets and be richer than when they first made their gold investment. This is a possible scenario.

However I think the more likely scenario and the one I would still maintain in occurring is that a collapse in world trade is likely to cause the value of gold to diminish. As trade declines rapidly you will need to pay more and more gold to get the same number of goods as the decline in goods would go down more rapidly than the amount of gold in circulation. I would be interested to know how well commodities such as gold fair in war torn countries such as Somalia or even depressed regions such as Greece or even Weimar Germany. I believe in all such examples the role gold played in helping or alleviating such issues was trivial if it can even be measured at all. At the very least gold's "stability" were not the main drivers to economic recoveries and in some ways may even exacerbate recoveries (countries who insisted in staying on the Gold Standard recovered the slowest during the Great Depression for example). I would say finding such points in history would be the acid test on how helpful gold would really be in times of need. With that said there could be a window were gold puts you ahead but I do think in some shape or form you must "cash out" on gold in some way or you will get clobbered either through inflation or by confiscation both direct or indirect.

Offline agelbert

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Re: Gold & Silver News
« Reply #419 on: April 15, 2013, 11:11:10 AM »
]WHY, oh WHY doesn't ANYBODY want to admit that if PHYSICAL ownership was the only criteria for pricing PMs, this downward pressure would be IMPOSSIBLE in a the current currency debasing environment!!?
It's the NAKED SHORTING ON PAPER that is doing this, PERIOD!  :evil4:


From Standard Bank Gold report last friday labelled "Positioned for a Blood Bath:

Quote
Participants showed a reluctance to unwind short positions;
in fact, 1.1 tonnes were added (51.2 tonnes were added the
previous week). This brings total shorts to 267.7 tonnes,
more than 2.5x the 5-year average (106.7 tonnes) and
closing in on the 5-year high of 292.4 tonnes recorded in
mid-February of this year.

A paltry 7.8 tonnes were added to long positions; clearly, the
market was no where near confident in gold’s prospects for
further upside. This turned out to be prescient, as Friday
(not included in this data) saw a dramatic sell-off in gold
(and most other commodities), pushing it well below
$1,500/oz.

http://www.kitco.com/reports/
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

 

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