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[RE]

He is a new and active poster so rather than admonish him; asking him to be a bit more specific might be a better course.

I already asked. EPIC FAIL so far.

RE

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[Petty Tyrant]

He is a new and active poster so rather than admonish him; asking him to be a bit more specific might be a better course.

I already asked. EPIC FAIL so far.



RE

I thought your position was he missed the boat. I find on one hand he is waiting for the system to reboot/rebalance and all will be well, OTOH he believes any system is a group/s is corrupted.

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[RE]

I thought your position was he missed the boat.

My Position is that whenever I posit direct questions, I get back ideological claptrap that does nothing practical to resolve the problems we have in front of us.

RE

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[impermanence]

I thought your position was he missed the boat.

My Position is that whenever I posit direct questions, I get back ideological claptrap that does nothing practical to resolve the problems we have in front of us.

RE

RE, the difference between you and me is that you believe that you are right, whereas, I believe that there [essentially] is no right, and what right exists, exists in transitory moments.  The manifestation of this polarity is that you are so emotionally invested in your belief system, that you are willing to denigrate others who might disagree with your pov.  I, otoh, understand that everybody has a different reality, and these realities change each and every moment. 

So, no matter how [fill in the blank] a person's opinion might be, this does not cause me to have a personal problem with them.  As a matter of fact, they are probably a very nice person [as most are].

Many people if have chatted with over the years have a hard time figuring out how I can be accepting of the way things are and still be a relatively happy and productive person.  This is because my own situation is not [necessarily] tied into what is going on outside of me.  Of course, I care greatly about the world and do what I can on a personal level to help, but understand that the best we can do is to put our greatest efforts in the helping process itself.

So, RE, your emotional outbursts directed towards me are not about me at all.  We all carry our own feelings, so I would really enjoy chatting with you further, but [perhaps], you can just try to consider my pov without seeing it as a threat to your own. 

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[impermanence]

He is a new and active poster so rather than admonish him; asking him to be a bit more specific might be a better course.

I already asked. EPIC FAIL so far.



RE

I thought your position was he missed the boat. I find on one hand he is waiting for the system to reboot/rebalance and all will be well, OTOH he believes any system is a group/s is corrupted.

UB, this is what I believe.

There exists two dimensions, The Relative and The Absolute.  The Relative is the intellectual/phenomenal world.  It exists within time, but not the time we think of as time.  It exists in discrete moments, constantly changing, subject to the forces of cause and effect.

I believe that we can not really understand this world because we have no real access to it.  What we can know, we know before our own intellectual processing kicks-in.  Once this happens, we change what we "nakedly perceive" into our own [interpretation of] reality.

The Absolute "exists" outside of our ability to understand.  It just "is."  If you can tap into this, then one can see things closer to the way there are, allowing "better" interaction with ones environment.  It is simply being more aware of what is actually going on as opposed to our interpretation of what's going on.

So, people [generally speaking] have all kinds of problems with this because I have not made it possible for them to convince me that their pov of view is valid [and everybody is seeking affirmation, after all].  So, people label me, call me names, etc., etc.  Whatever.

If people would simply listen to what I am saying, I believe they would find what I am saying pretty interesting.  Maybe not, but I am always interested in people who have different ideas.  After all, variety is the spice of life!

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[RE]

I believe that there [essentially] is no right

IOW, everything is wrong.  AKA Nihilism.  Paint it Black.  I'm not the only one here who notices the Randisms either, or the tendency to not answer questions but rather just use them as ideological springboards.

As far as "emotional outbursts" go, you haven't seen one.  I'm just stating the facts as I read them   You don't think there is any hope for improvement, you think Individualism is good and Collectivism is bad.  You assign positive qualities to Individuals, negative ones to groups.  I see your POV quite clearly.  I don't agree with it.  I think iit is counterproductive and defeatist.

When I have an emotional outburst, trust me everyone will know it.  When I get ticked off, I light it up like Vietnam on a Summer's Day in 1969.  Ask Surly.  He's seen me go ballistic on the likes of LLPOH over on TBP.  I'm not even mildly annoyed here, this is very polite conversation IMHO. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/InRDF_0lfHk?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/InRDF_0lfHk?feature=player_detailpage</a>

RE

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[Surly1]

When I have an emotional outburst, trust me everyone will know it.  When I get ticked off, I light it up like Vietnam on a Summer's Day in 1969.  Ask Surly.  He's seen me go ballistic on the likes of LLPOH over on TBP.  I'm not even mildly annoyed here, this is very polite conversation IMHO. 
RE

FWIW, this is true. This is conversation over tea, ruffled-sleeve stuff. Not even breaking a sweat.



It gets MUCH worse. Furniture breaking, food fights, people getting pitched out of windows...

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[RE]

It gets MUCH worse. Furniture breaking, food fights, people getting pitched out of windows...

Then, if all else FAILS, and you STILL can't get your point across, you go THERMONUCLEAR. 

Fortunately to date here on the Diner, even with F-Bomb I never have had to Push the Button.  The Diner remains a place where at worst we engage in Word Warfare with Conventional Weapons in the Diner Kitchen.  Even there, we seek to settle our differences without too much Collateral Damage, though to be sure it occassionally does occur.

It will be a sorry day indeed if I ever have to pull out ALL THE STOPS and DETONATE.  The Quitting Events come fast and furious when this happens.  It is NOT GOOD for anybody.

However, I AM capable of it.  I have been pitching Napalm on the Net for 20 years.  I have a very thick skin now, you really gotta WORK at it to get me to lose my cool.  When I do though, it is a Take No Prisoners sort of thing and I don't worry about the consequences, I just let the fingers fly on the keyboard and go LOOSE CANNON.  Don't push me to this.  You will REGRET THE DAY YOU WERE EVER BORN.  That is all she wrote.

RE

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[Surly1]

It gets MUCH worse. Furniture breaking, food fights, people getting pitched out of windows...

Then, if all else FAILS, and you STILL can't get your point across, you go THERMONUCLEAR. 

Fortunately to date here on the Diner, even with F-Bomb I never have had to Push the Button.  The Diner remains a place where at worst we engage in Word Warfare with Conventional Weapons in the Diner Kitchen.  Even there, we seek to settle our differences without too much Collateral Damage, though to be sure it occassionally does occur.

It will be a sorry day indeed if I ever have to pull out ALL THE STOPS and DETONATE.  The Quitting Events come fast and furious when this happens.  It is NOT GOOD for anybody.

However, I AM capable of it.  I have been pitching Napalm on the Net for 20 years.  I have a very thick skin now, you really gotta WORK at it to get me to lose my cool.  When I do though, it is a Take No Prisoners sort of thing and I don't worry about the consequences, I just let the fingers fly on the keyboard and go LOOSE CANNON.  Don't push me to this.  You will REGRET THE DAY YOU WERE EVER BORN.  That is all she wrote.

RE

Jeebus, what has you so jacked up?

I recommend deep, cleansing breaths, the better to regain your equipoise; or failing that, three fingers of good whiskey for breakfast.

With eggs.

Diner-style.

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[RE]

When I get ticked off, I light it up like Vietnam on a Summer's Day in 1969.

This is ANOTHER RE "owned" phrase on Google! 

Turns up just one reference, from Oct 20, 2008 on PeakOil.com

However, I used this phrase numerous times on Private Forums that do not show up on Google, going back to the 90s.

RE

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[RE]

Jeebus, what has you so jacked up?

I'm not Jacked Up.  I'm having fun doing the Rifleman thing.    Bombastic Threats.  "You Talkin' to ME?"  LOL.

RE

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[impermanence]

I believe that there [essentially] is no right

IOW, everything is wrong.  AKA Nihilism.

RE

Incorrect assumption.  If there is no right, then, there is no wrong.

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[monsta666]

If there is no right, then, there is no wrong.

I don't believe this to be true. Now I know there is the argument that all our thoughts on what is right and wrong are social constructs therefore morality is all relative to the culture or environment you happen to live in. However I would still reject this notion because in in nearly all cultures there are forms of behaviour that are unacceptable. Killing people in-discriminatory without warning or with little reason are acts that are punished in nearly all societies. Stealing and dishonesty is another common crime that is recognised in most places and I would add the concept of fairness, treating others as relative equals at least within a social class is another common theme. In short while lots of behaviours that are relative I do feel there are absolutes and some things can be considered a crime regardless of what human culture you live in.

On a more practical level though by arguing there is no right by extension you are saying there is no wrong (as you already mentioned). This line of reasoning has the problem of accountability to the people who are most responsible for environmental destruction. I do not see how this is beneficial to excuse people with destroying the environment greatly when they had the knowledge and resources to know otherwise. Just to be clear when I talk about the most responsible people I am talking about the people at the very top of the big corporations who have a large influence on government policy people like the CEO of Monsanto or the Kock brothers.

Furthermore I do not know how much traction it will gain with most people as, rightly or wrongly, nearly anyone has a moral system and more important; they are not prepared to see the world where there is no right and wrong. This is especially true if the person in question feels wronged or their family has suffered some kind of loss. For example if the government comes knocking on your door breaking your house and stealing your property can you still take the philosophical stance that they did no wrong because everything is just relative? I even if you can it is little comfort to most people to hear that no wrong was committed because morals or actions can never be right and wrong so I don't see how we can use this idea if 99.99% of people would reject it. It is not going to gain to many followers and there is no practical applications in how applying this idea would make the world a better place.

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[impermanence]

If there is no right, then, there is no wrong.

I don't believe this to be true.

One can certainly argue that all things are relative, but, for this discussion, I'll agree that there are some absolutes.  The idea of right or wrong is simply one example of the duality which defines all things intellectual as well as how we approach thinking.  It's either up or down, right or left, hot or cold, etc.  But, all of these dualities are relative, determines by ever fluctuating circumstances, primary among them being time [distance]. 

What RE does not get is that there is another realm, the non-intellectual, where you can "exist" without the assistance of the dual nature of things.  In other words, if your intuit your way, then it really doesn't matter what is right or wrong, only what, "makes sense."  Our intellectual processing often leads us astray, whereas a clear mind [acceptance] can see things much closer to the truth of the matter and therefore ascertain the correct response with a higher degree of accuracy.

Acceptance of what is leaves out the morality in the perception, but NOT the ethics in response.  THIS is the point most people miss.

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[RE]

If there is no right, then, there is no wrong.

Fabulous.  Add Moral Relativism to the Imp list of labels.

Here's a list for you.  Pedophile Priests, Ted Bundy, Dick Cheney, John Corzine, GITMO, the Spanish Inquisition, Genocide of the Indigenous Population of the Americas.

No wrong in there, because there is no wrong.

Sell it to the Ayn Rand crowd.  Not flying here.

RE

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