AuthorTopic: Electric Bicycles  (Read 62223 times)

Offline cernunnos5

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #240 on: August 18, 2018, 09:09:32 AM »
Just to stir the pot a bit.

I chose a gas motor over electric. Ya. Nothing is perfect in life. Here is my reasoning (and ya, the verdict is still out till future experimentation gets done through life experience)

Back when I still had money, I wanted a BionX. (Canadian company. Top of the line. prices have come down a bit to the 2500$ range. Was in the 3000 range) I just wasnt ready for that kind of commitment. My used motorcycle cost about that much.

In contrast, My recent gas motor bike build cost less then 300 canadian dollars and that came with some upgraded parts including a free wheel addition from australia.

That couple thousand dollar represents Carbon input in different ways. All the secondary carbon inputs associated with getting that money. Getting to a job. The added carbon and money for vehicles (or bus) gas, insurance, parts, inspection, licensing, mining, shipping, civil infrastructure, police, military, banking etc. Feeding and housing yourself while working at that job.

Plus, as the middle class disintegrates, fantacisation about having having an electric bike is sort of like fantacys about having  a muscle car or a Harley. (There is nothing more annoying as a biker than hearing people say "get a harly". Proper response would be, "do you own a harley. Do you even have a motorcycle license. Fuck off".

In contrast, most people can probably save up 300$. This gets them in the game.... with skin in the game.

C5 Rule of survival- If all else fails, lower you expectations.

Now, at half a century of age, I have come to treat batteries with suspicion.  They are untrustworthy, expensive and they are an ecological disaster.

We are just learning this about lithium ion. There is no shortage of it. But we are once again, exporting ecological destruction to third world countries where desperate people are willing to destroy there own ecosystem to sell this shit to us. Then their is the disposal issue. Our history of "Disposing" of thing is less than spectacular.

So, the verdict is still out on the usefulness of a gas bike engine for Preparedness/ Adaption..... but this is your resident doomer survivalist's thoughts on the matter.

Discussions about electric bikes are sort of like having Fara Faucet posters or porn stars on the walls. Sure, they are desirable... but you cant afford them. And if you really could afford them... you could do better.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #241 on: August 18, 2018, 10:24:33 AM »
I don't need three hundred dollars for an e-bike.  I already have one and if I do get batteries from old laptops my carbon footprint is not very big not that I care.  If that mattered I would not do it at all.  This is more for fun than anything else.   In collapse an e-bike might be around for a little while after gas is gone but so what? 

I'm working in the south end of Seattle where a lot of homeless congregate.  A big flat industrial area.  Smiling old men bike around all day on the rented city bikes.  They are enjoying themselves and getting away from their own smell but that does not mean they have any place to go.  They are all nowhere men.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/93rSXA8aeG4?ecver=2" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/93rSXA8aeG4?ecver=2</a>

I'm one too , but I have a better nowhere.  Once collapse happens  most every destination will be nowhere.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline cernunnos5

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #242 on: August 18, 2018, 11:34:29 AM »
How very defeatist... with a cheap shot at "smelly poor people".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddEvqS6M4o

Prove it, Light Beer. That aint flying. Its falling with style.
I got some serious morning Woody and my cowboy hat on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ89sePcqiU

Offline azozeo

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #243 on: August 18, 2018, 11:49:08 AM »
How very defeatist... with a cheap shot at "smelly poor people".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddEvqS6M4o

Prove it, Light Beer. That aint flying. Its falling with style.
I got some serious morning Woody and my cowboy hat on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ89sePcqiU


Sounds like yer' still at it from last night....

Gimme' 50 & hit the showers  :icon_mrgreen:
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #244 on: August 18, 2018, 12:21:23 PM »
How very defeatist... with a cheap shot at "smelly poor people".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddEvqS6M4o

Prove it, Light Beer. That aint flying. Its falling with style.
I got some serious morning Woody and my cowboy hat on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ89sePcqiU

Quote
a cheap shot at "smelly poor people".
  That was literary license.  A comment on our pathetic existence.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kqnIB24DPXg?ecver=2" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/kqnIB24DPXg?ecver=2</a>

I'm living here and the problem only gets worse.  The embedded video suggests the problem is being solved but that is bullshit.  Homeless tents are three times as common now as they were when this video was made 9 months ago.  Watching down on their luck people bike around in endless loops of despair gives one a defeatist feeling.  No doubt about it.  Money is not available to solve the problem.  The whole 'head tax' issue to try fob the problem off on Bezo's was a total flop and all our politicians want to do is steal any money allocated to homeless needs for their own pet projects.  Money for foster children when they come of age because the 'system' does not provide for them for instance.  Hating on the smelly people is automatic by the bathed.  The bathed have to work and resent it.  They hate the freedom and irresponsibility.  The homeless are outsiders to be shunned.  It goes that way.  When there were few of them everything was different.  I may be seeing a small microcosm of collapse unfold.



Falling with style!

Knows not where he's going to  :roll2: Isn't he a bit like you and me?  Nowhere Man, don't worry Take your time, don't hurry :roll2:  Leave it all till somebody else lends you a hand - wa wa wa.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 12:26:25 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline azozeo

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #245 on: August 18, 2018, 12:26:16 PM »
Beautiful piece of equipment you made there dog. Kudo's

Great old piece of Lennon you resurrected as well, & with the real Paul in the pic I might ad.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #246 on: August 18, 2018, 12:28:31 PM »
Beautiful piece of equipment you made there dog. Kudo's

Great old piece of Lennon you resurrected as well, & with the real Paul in the pic I might ad.

He might not be real if you play the video backwards!
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline cernunnos5

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #247 on: August 18, 2018, 01:20:23 PM »
Thanks for proving my point.

How are you not seeing that?!

Those very well controlled folks(dirty poor folks) under the bridge are you. They have learned to say, Yes, mas'er, We polite to authorities because we have no power and resisting this puts us in lethal danger". It was good PR because they were dirty poor white people instead of black

Sooooooo........ in pointing that out....... are you really trying to pull off that you are the "Big Dog" because you "Saw dirty poor people once" and felt some white guilt from your basement...... or did you live under that bridge. If you ever lived under that bridge, you go to the tops of my post apocalyptic respect list. I have only slept there a few dozen times.

Offline azozeo

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #248 on: August 18, 2018, 01:28:15 PM »
Beautiful piece of equipment you made there dog. Kudo's

Great old piece of Lennon you resurrected as well, & with the real Paul in the pic I might ad.

He might not be real if you play the video backwards!

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....

You knew I'd get that.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline cernunnos5

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #249 on: August 18, 2018, 02:33:05 PM »
Before anyone calls me on it... I didnt sleep under that particular bridge... in Seattle, (only Vancouver near by). I did sleep under a bridge in East LA. That was fucked up. Edmonton was worse because of that whole 30 below thing. Slept in a few squats as well. The sewage smell is why I toughened up my sense of smell. I taught myself to cut off smelling. People who complain about "smelly people" I just see as weak. Reverse prejudiced. FWI, Hindus and Sikhs think westerners absolutely reek  like sour milk .   

Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #250 on: August 19, 2018, 07:10:23 AM »
Interesting...  I like the recycling of laptop packs on the bike. That is some impressive obsessive tinkering!!! My research into lithium batteries for work tells me recycling of them is waiting for volumes to build before its worthwhile. I chose gasification as the least terrible scenario. I think an electric option makes more sense in an urban scenario though; much more discrete. I'll put up a few links for fun:
Charcoal 100cc motorcycle.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/P3wkIAMbMQI?ecver=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/P3wkIAMbMQI?ecver=1</a>
And a video of my atv. I've allowed that project to go dormant but it works, is loads of fun and could be very useful. ATV's are legal on roads here with a driver's license and plates.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/fsZ7haM0xrA?ecver=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/fsZ7haM0xrA?ecver=1</a>

As to the social stuff raised above; My exposure is limited. Some "urban camping" as we called it meaning camping in the bushes in city parks and some seriously sketchy "youth" hostels. All of that is 20 plus years behind me now. In my current area there is so much crown land around warm weather squatting is real and growing to feed the huge increase in employment required in a summer tourist area. Come winter they usually move on to the cities to work or rent a closed down cottage between 4 or 5 people. Good shelter is required or you die... Lots of bikes around with the riders usually following a pattern; brightly coloured tour de france types (tourists) or milk crates tied to the rack types(locals). I come in contact more then most since construction labour is the common employment.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #251 on: August 19, 2018, 09:24:30 AM »
Before anyone calls me on it... I didnt sleep under that particular bridge... in Seattle, (only Vancouver near by). I did sleep under a bridge in East LA. That was fucked up. Edmonton was worse because of that whole 30 below thing. Slept in a few squats as well. The sewage smell is why I toughened up my sense of smell. I taught myself to cut off smelling. People who complain about "smelly people" I just see as weak. Reverse prejudiced. FWI, Hindus and Sikhs think westerners absolutely reek  like sour milk .

Mentioning smell one time is not complaining about it.  I confess to not having smelled any of them.  I spend most of my time in the the tourist area which is still very busy with summertime visitors.  Homeless people are smart enough not to go there.   The rail line that carries the fucking coal to China separates the areas but I'm hesitant to mention that they are smart enough to stay away from tourists for I fear you will then not only think that I think they smell, but you'll think that I think they are stupid as well and only making fun of them because they are smart enough not to be harassed and arrested.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 11:21:28 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline azozeo

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #252 on: August 19, 2018, 12:45:30 PM »
Dog,
You gonna' shoot a helmet cam vid of your happy self cruizin' the mean streets of Sea-Tac on your new HMD ? (home made deal)

That's what the Great State of Colo. puts on a vehicle title when you mix n' match pieces & parts. My bud had a '59 VW baja bug.
It became a '59 HMD....
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #253 on: September 04, 2018, 01:44:50 AM »
I am using a long haul trucker frame.



Mine is an olive green.  The weight of my hub motor causes the front fork to feel floppy, it is a heavy Chinese motor that can put out way more power than the bike actually needs.  A ninety volt battery pack could get the bike going 60 miles an hour. 

The article had some numbers wrong.  I have wire racks on the front and rear.



Here is the hub motor but I really wanted to show the rack on the front.  Wire racks on the back are common and I have one of those too.  Also painted snazzy green and yellow.  The racks each have a shelf that mounts over the fenders on which things are carried.  Never mind that but the rear shelf carries the controller nicely. What I care about is the sides of the racks that are not normally used because on them I'll mount thin Baltic birch plywood which hold batteries in nice 3-d printed enclosures.  each side front and back can be used for 4 mounting surfaces.  If each panel holds 7.5 Amp Hours at 48 volts I'd have 30 amp hours total and that would get me 15 miles to work fast and easy.  Not as fast and as easy as the E350 of course.

I'd have 1440 amp hours.  Twice what the lime bikes have and the packs will be thin with a low center of gravity on the bike.  I'll integrate a charger into the controller box on the back rack so wherever I go (that has a plug) all I need is an extension cord so I'll can at least start getting juiced back up in some places.

The article had an overly optimistic range.  The hills around here kill range and the fifty miles given for a charge is way high.  I had this bike running with the controller on the front rack and 3 batteries on the back, 7.5 amp hour 12 volt lead acids.  That was only 270 watt hours and it was only good for five miles.  I expect something close to a 15 mile range with the new battery setup but not the 25 mile range claimed by the Lime bikes with only half the battery capacity I'll have in the article.  Putting a throttle on a bike makes the legs go to sleep pretty much and the hills will suck power even with a riders help.  A fair range calculation can't consider a riders contribution.   

What I am most proud of is that the Long Haul trucker frame has no disk brake mount and I wanted a disk brake on the back.  I put an 8 inch disk on the back which is nice, as most bike brakes are only 5 inches wide.  I welded a mount onto the frame for the brake and did a perfect job getting it lined up by making a tool to position a steel support before I welded it in place.  I welded it on without putting a hole in the thin bike frame steel or messing up the frame in any way.  Wire brushed off the burned area of powder coating and painted the bracket the dark green you see.  The bike stops great.



Update

So far I have salvaged batteries out of 25 dead laptop packs.  In this pic you see the Opus BT C-3400 battery tester next to a box of batteries which have been tested and marked with their milliamp-hour capacity.  Their are two layers in that box ranging from 1000 mAh capacity to 2397 mAh.  A bit over thirty batteries have been processed in a week.  Batteries less than 1000mAh capacity are tossed.  On a shelf below is a box chocked full of about ninety batteries waiting to be tested.  If I build packs out of 2200 mAh batteries twelve cells paralleled together will give me a bit over 26 Amp hours.  Based on results I experienced with lead acid batteries I was able to get about five miles on 7 Amp hours at 36 volts.  This time I'll have a little more voltage so it should go twenty miles.  This considers 12 x14 or 168 batteries total.  I'll be getting more packs.  Yield is good,  At a buck a pack I'm happy to get an average of one usable battery per pack and I am doing better than that.  New batteries would make a pack with the capacity I have described worth well over a thousand dollars and the capacities of pre-built packs are exaggerated.

If I build my pack for less than $200 I'm doing great and it looks like I will.  The best batteries new can only do 3600mAh.  They are made by Panasonic and if I could get them they would not be cheap.  I expect to get at least 2/3 the capacity of any new pack and since it is so much cheaper to use re-purposed laptop batteries all I have to do is add more batteries to get the same performance.  It may be the case that since my capacities are measured and selected I may actually wind up with a better pack than some new packs.



The wheel you see is another hub motor I mounted on a stand so I could test my motor drive circuits.  It will spin again!  A exercise bicycle device I bought surplus can put a controlled drag on the wheel.  It uses magnets to create a drag on a friction wheel that rolls against the bicycle wheel.  A cable  adjusts the position of a steel plate to chamge the drag.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 02:05:32 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

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Re: Electric Bicycles
« Reply #254 on: September 04, 2018, 02:02:36 AM »
I'm picking up a new Cripple Cart to keep down in the Lower 48 at Brian's place.  When we come to Seattle you gotta do some modifications on it to soup it up!

RE
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