AuthorTopic: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??  (Read 7883 times)

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2014, 09:31:30 PM »
Yaaaawn. Your answer again is only that you know better or we cant handle the truth and the end is nigh crap that nobody ever claimed. Pick any name you mentioned, take an article they wrote and write a rebbuttal. Where they say this will lead to this, write why you think it will not instead of only ever fanning out a fancy peacock tail.
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2014, 10:53:28 PM »
Pick any name you mentioned, take an article they wrote and write a rebbuttal. Where they say this will lead to this, write why you think it will not instead of only ever fanning out a fancy peacock tail.

How much time do you think such an endeavor should require?

You have time to say theyre wrong, you should have time to prove it. The rest of us give reasons for our opinions. Youre getting paid anyway. Should be simple if you write entire theses bianually.
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2014, 07:36:09 AM »
Pick any name you mentioned, take an article they wrote and write a rebbuttal. Where they say this will lead to this, write why you think it will not instead of only ever fanning out a fancy peacock tail.

How much time do you think such an endeavor should require?

You have time to say theyre wrong, you should have time to prove it.

I already did that...with Ugo anyway. It took a matter of minutes, a few footnotes and that was just from a single sentence he wrote.

But you didn't imply to simply refute them, you said "article". I am working on one right now, I started the outline in October.

So how much time do you think this type of endeavor should take? When bad factual information can be discredited in a matter of minutes, how much time SHOULD be required to refute, say, one of Gail's graphics? One of her concepts? A single blog post? Her writings at TOD?

Is it enough to simply hunt down her using censored information, and showing that she doesn't understand that? Or are basic logic faults enough?

Just wondering, some folks who can't even be counted on to follow a footnote won't accept the advocate of their belief system being shot down no matter how much information you stack up against them. Like, say, a devout Catholic or other zealot.

Quote from: UB
The rest of us give reasons for our opinions. Youre getting paid anyway. Should be simple if you write entire theses bianually.

I give reasons for my opinions all the time. You aren't asking for that. You said "article". When some of these folks can't write a sentence without screwing up FACTS, and those facts can be shown wihtin a footnote or two to be inaccurate, why in the world is anything more substantial required?

 According to your lack of reasoning then this footnote proves you wrong.

http://ourfiniteworld.com/

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Offline WHD

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2014, 07:43:09 AM »
I think you still think it's 1914.

You would be incorrect.

Quote from: WHD
All this coming from the one who admits he works for TPTB, to spread "information."

I work for no more TPTB than the moderators of this forum, but yes, one of my occasional roles in life is to educate folks on various aspects of the oil and gas business, clarifying, explaining, doing presentations. I have done the same around here for those who occasionally asked a leading question but really....do you really care about how the geoscience based, Bayesian inference system, employed by XOM to generate prospects actually works? Isn't it just easier to slap a bell shaped curve to some data and proclaim OH NOES!! THE END IS NIGH!!

Quote from: WHD

Good ol' Woodrow. He gave the economy/dollar to your banker friends, btw. No wonder you love to use him as a foil.

WHD

I don't love Woodrow. I love his real world demonstration of the same scarcity fear that is being peddled today among those who can't take the time to learn even a little history on the topic of resource scarcity.

http://www.mc.cc.md.us/Departments/hpolscrv/jzeck.html


I wonder how many of the Diners who read this forum, but who never comment, know that your links are often not what you claim they are? Or rather, much more than you claim they are.

So in other words, from the MKing of critical thinking, the Teapot Dome scandal of the Warren Harding administration is proof that we will effectively never run out of fossil fuels! If you believe that, I would call you a fool. But you are not a fool, you are a dissembler. Your methods are straight out of:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/02/24/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/

WHD

Offline Bot Blogger

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2014, 09:01:33 AM »
How much time do you think such an endeavor should require?

MKing shit or get off the throne. You've never EVER say anything. Yet you yammer on-and-on about opinions and opinions-of-opinions. It's amazing.

But you're a confidence man. That's what you sell. That's your product. The CON.

You have ONE idea, that people don't know 2+2= 4.

You use this fact that people are easily fooled, to make a living. You're paid to convince people in whose interest it is to be fooled, that they should be ok with it.

SAY SOMETHING!!!!!!

Something that MEANS something.


I'm not sure which is more pathetic:
  • being paid to shill for OIL on a doomer blog or
  • doing it in your spare time as a hobby.


Do you get paid by the hour or the word? Probably the word, because there is little value in your writing. This is why you're so concerned about the amount of  time you'd have to spend. You won't get paid for it. So why do it?  Figuring out how to explain to people who don't give a fuck about your profession is too much work. Better to impress geology chicks with your clever tricks for squeezing farts out of a rock. Cause that's what you do. Ride motorcycles and impress yourself with your own impressibility. Goof.

I had to laugh when you tried to put a green spin on your occupation with the ol': we now flood the aquifer with sea water 'like nature intended' line. Your comment that you don't use notes when presenting your power pointlessness, had me rolling too. Of course you don't need notes!!!! That's what power point IS. It's your notes on a 16x9 foot screen.

As a bullshitter you suffer from 'crustal abundance'.

Your doing a bad job. On your service satisfaction feedback form, I give you one point out of ten. The one point is for attendance. But I guess otherwise you wouldn't get paid...

In two seconds of googling I found more honest to goodness disinformation about fracking than you have provided in years. Scientific American may shill for oil too, but at least there are are links, clear language and an attempt at self examination. (Something else you never do.)


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-fracking-be-done-without-impacting-water/
Fracking Can Be Done Safely, but Will It Be?
Fracking for natural gas doesn’t have to be an environmental disaster, says a new report

Out of sight (and smell), natural gas slowly bubbled up into Norma Fiorentino’s private water well near the town of Dimock in northeastern Pennsylvania—in the heart of the new fracking boom in the U.S. Then, on New Year's Day 2009, when a mechanical pump flicked on and provided the spark, Fiorentino's backyard exploded. She and many others blame the blast on fracking—the colloquial name for the natural gas drilling process that combines horizontal drilling and the fracturing of shale deep underground with high-pressure water to create a path for gas to flow back up the well.

The fracking revolution has freed up previously inaccessible natural gas in shale formations like the Marcellus, which underlies states from New York down to West Virginia and has been heavily tapped in Pennsylvania. On May 16 the U.S. Department of Interior released its new guidelines for such fracking on public lands. And a new review article funded by the National Science Foundation and published in Science on May 16 examines what fracking may be doing to the water supply. "This is an industry that's in its infancy, so we don't really know a lot of things," explains environmental engineer Radisav Vidic of the University of Pittsburgh, who led this review. "Is it or isn't it bad for the environment? Is New York State right to ban fracking, and is Pennsylvania stupid for [allowing it]?"

According to the review, the answer is no. "There is no irrefutable impact of this industry on surface or groundwater quality in Pennsylvania," Vidic says.

That's not to say there haven't been problems. That's because there are many ways for things to go wrong with a natural gas well during the fracking process. A new well—or the 100,000 or so existing but forgotten wells—can allow natural gas from either the Marcellus or shallower deposits to migrate up and out of the rock and into water or basements. Leaking methane, in addition to being a potential safety hazard, is also a potent greenhouse gas that exacerbates climate change, although that environmental impact was not examined in this study.

The key environmental safety factor is the casing, the industry term for the sheath of cement that surrounds a newly drilled well. If improperly made, gas can migrate along the outside of this sheath. The gas can also itself leave cracks in the sheath if it is poorly made, freeing yet more gas. According to citation records from the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP), from 2008 to 2013, 6,466 wells were issued 219 violation notices for well construction problems, suggesting that such problems afflict roughly 3 percent of all wells. The DEP is "not seeing any evidence for groundwater contamination from methane leaks," Vidic adds, noting that government and industry are working on better ways to ensure cement integrity in fracked wells. But problems persist. For example, a test well drilled this past October near Owego, N.Y., continues to leak.

At the same time, wells in New York State where there has been no fracking show similar concentrations of methane to those in Pennsylvania where fracking is abundant. Northeastern Pennsylvania—where Dimock is located—seems to be a hotspot for such methane contamination, even compared with other parts of the same state. "These formations in northeastern Pennsylvania are, for whatever reason, more problematic," Vidic says, adding that in the future a more precise understanding of the constituents in natural gas from various regions may allow accurate identification of where any contamination comes from, whether the Marcellus or shallower coal seams. "But there's no irrefutable, sustained evidence of contamination going on continuously, so [the gas industry] must be doing something right."

One reason there is no such irrefutable evidence is because of a lack of publicly available baseline data for the condition of groundwater prior to any drilling and fracking. That data is collected, often by the gas companies themselves, but not shared due to privacy issues. (For example, it may affect the potential sale value of property found to have existing contamination.) And Pennsylvania also lacks good groundwater monitoring because it is not required by law. "If we forced Pennsylvania to enact that rule, that would be a good outcome," Vidic says.

A study in 2011 found levels of methane contamination were higher closer to fracking among 60 wells tested, although Vidic suggests that the levels were close to the background levels published by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS).

Not all experts share that interpretation—or the generally rosy outlook of the new Science review. "I don't agree that the levels we found were similar to background levels found by USGS," argues environmental scientist Robert Jackson of Duke University, who lead that study and was not involved with this one. "This review is a mixed bag. Its call for additional monitoring makes perfect sense. Its dismissal of all environmental concerns doesn't."

Another particular concern is the potential for the fracking fluid itself to contaminate water. The exact fracking fluid cocktail is kept secret, although it can range over some 750 secret ingredients, such as coffee grounds or methanol. Each well requires some 7.5 million to 26.5 million liters of water for the fracking operation itself. Such tainted water has been found outside the Marcellus shale zone deep underground, although still more than a kilometer beneath groundwater supplies. And shallow wells fracked in other regions, such as West Virginia and Wyoming, have contaminated the groundwater. But as of yet, fracking fluid has not yet fouled Pennsylvania’s groundwater. "I'll take my chances on winning the lottery over the chances of frack fluid in the groundwater," Vidic says, noting that water from specific formations could also be tracked like the gas itself.

Another potential environmental problem comes from all the wastewater that flows back up the well and has to be properly disposed of. At present, Marcellus shale wells are mostly absorbing the water pumped in to them. But at some point in future, all of these wells will begin to produce water that carries toxic and even radioactive contaminants leached from the surrounding rock along with lots and lots of salt. That is already happening; contamination seems to be showing up in the state's rivers, streams and other waterways, according to the review. And if Pennsylvania were to decide to deal with such water by evaporating it, Vidic notes, they will have to figure out how to get rid of the 10 million metric tons of sodium chloride left over. "The entire U.S. uses maybe 15 million tons for de-icing,” he adds, “and you can't put it in a landfill because it will just dissolve."

Other states use disposal wells to dump the water back down deep underground where it came from, but that's not an option in Pennsylvania due to the underlying geology and regulations. As a result, drillers and gas companies in the state increasingly reuse the water in new wells. In fact, in the first six months of 2012 they achieved a reuse rate of 90 percent. "The best thing to do with wastewater is to recycle or reuse it," Duke's Jackson says. "Industry deserves credit for increasingly doing this." But that won't last forever.

Ultimately, the question becomes: What will be the long-term legacy of these wells? After all, the now-moribund coal industry left the Keystone State a toxic legacy it is still coping with today. Although some provisions have been put in place to deal with future abandoned wells, there is not enough money set aside to deal with these future liabilities. "Do we leave them or plug them up, and what are the potential impacts?" Vidic asks. "Now's the time to think about who's going to pay for it when the wells have run their course."

Offline roamer

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2014, 09:03:36 AM »
WHD,
Damn that was an interesting link...... 

FWIW i don't get why any of us here care about what MKing is saying.  Personally I do not, i have ceded to him he was correct that early Peak Oilers were wrong.  However he is and always has been mute about the future  and certainly offers no insight in how the very real problems of finite resource constraints will be solved.  He gets everyones goat here cause it seems many people bought into a concrete notion of how the "doom" would unfold and he just keeps pressure on the numerous points where descent and peak oil is just not happening the way we thought it would.  Give him a pat on the back for being an expert oil modeler and give him due credit for not falling for false premature predictions that so many of us have fallen for (myself certainly included), and then ask him if maybe he actually has some constructive insight for how mankind will transition away from fossil fuels when that undetermined point in the future actually comes.

I think the peak oil/doom community has been sold or was manufactured (not sure which) a false ideology and needs to reexamine stances and timelines.  John Micheal Greer has been all along warning of the vulnerability of people for taking the bait on fantasies of apocalypses and conversely cornocopian heavens.  Its a psychological weakness of our culture, and it really makes anyone with that reality bias tendency vulnerable to a host of premanufactured views.  I guess i can only speak from my own experience, but i fell for the bait.  I took stupid risks and chances to try to prepare myself for "doom" and everything i've done out of even an ounce of fear of collapse has been a waste.  From now on if an idea triggers either the doom or salvation trigger in my brain i'm going to be skeptical.  Giving in to fear and desire is like handing the keys to your brain over to someone else, not going to do that anymore.

None of that is to say i think energy descent and financial collapse won't happen, i think they still are highly probable if not imminent. Also not giving up on the SUNstead dream, i have and will continue to seek that way of living because its what has always called to me. Its just am going to be vigilant about not letting myself fall be identified as a doomer, its a psychological trap.






Offline WHD

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2014, 09:34:33 AM »

Quote
FWIW i don't get why any of us here care about what MKing is saying.  Personally I do not, i have ceded to him he was correct that early Peak Oilers were wrong.  However he is and always has been mute about the future  and certainly offers no insight in how the very real problems of finite resource constraints will be solved.

MKings basic argument is that the sun will run out of fuel before we run out of hydrocarbons. Hence, we will soon all be driving electric cars, on our way to a glorious high tech future for ever, or at least until the sun dies. IOW, no need whatever to worry about it, trust the experts. Which is why I accuse him of being psy-ops, or their kissing cousin. Feeding the dominant story line, with a different spin. That is why I care about what he says, because it is not leading to a constructive conversation about the future, but more of the same BAU.

Quote
I think the peak oil/doom community has been sold or was manufactured (not sure which) a false ideology and needs to reexamine stances and timelines.

The concept of peak oil is like any understanding, evolving. Early on, many jumped to conclusions that seemed obvious to any serious observer. Any idea is weak, to the degree it becomes fixed. JMG's attitude about it is what it is, in part, because his concept of fossil fuel extraction has been ever evolving. I think most here, are the same, ever evolving on it, hearing what MKing has to say, as well as all the rest. For myself, I have come to believe that fracking as savior (as an idea) is mostly driven by mal-investment, a refusal to come to terms with de-growth, and a deep indifference to the health of the biosphere.

Quote
I guess i can only speak from my own experience, but i fell for the bait.  I took stupid risks and chances to try to prepare myself for "doom" and everything i've done out of even an ounce of fear of collapse has been a waste.  From now on if an idea triggers either the doom or salvation trigger in my brain i'm going to be skeptical.  Giving in to fear and desire is like handing the keys to your brain over to someone else, not going to do that anymore.

I personally don't see the SUNstead idea or the Off-Grid plans for my house (that you have helped work on), as being about fear of doom. More just the recognition that resources are going to become harder to come by for most people, esp in this every-man-for-himself culture, ongoing. I am trying to adapt. Which is what evolution is about.

Quote
None of that is to say i think energy descent and financial collapse won't happen, i think they still are highly probable if not imminent.

I do suspect, a financial collapse could happen any day now.

WHD
 






 

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 10:02:30 AM »
Remind yourself of the topic of this thread you started roamer. Did George Orwell make a false call of the future surveillnce state and poxy proxy wars as 1984 just because he wrote in 1948 and simply  reversed the order of 48 to 84? Here is the net, youre staring at it, there is orwells big brother running it exactly as you said, reassuring you 1984 didnt work out so well and only idiots rinse and repeat it.

You mention a slow descent, we pretty much all do with black swan caveats. Bury that point in double digit daily posts calling you a crackpot crazy camp david koresh follower, and the DD is nothing but a little comedic relief like 'doomsday preppers' just before your nightly news of the ongoing economic recovery.
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Offline g

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Re: The Net an Engineered System : Fox Picks Up The Apple Spyware Story
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2014, 05:47:06 PM »
From Libertarian and one of my favorite bloggers Karl Denninger


Fox Picks Up The Apple Spyware Story

Quote
Well well....

    Zdziarksi is certain that these mechanisms, whatever their purpose, are no accident. He has seen them become more complex, and they seem to get as much maintenance and attention as iOS's advertised features. Even as Apple adds new security features, the company may be adding ways to circumvent them.

    "I am not suggesting some grand conspiracy," Zdziarski clarified in a blog post after his HOPE X talk. "There are, however, some services running in iOS that shouldn't be there, that were intentionally added by Apple as part of the firmware and that bypass backup encryption while copying more of your personal data than ever should come off the phone for the average consumer."

    "My hope is that Apple will correct the problem," he added in the blog posting. "Nothing less, nothing more. I want these services off my phone. They don't belong there."

It's not a "problem" when something is intentionally done.

It's a choice and a decision.

How does any person or corporation justify buying, using or allowing on their network a device where the manufacturer has placed on it software that can and does bypass the security, including encryption, that they claim "protects" your data.
 
   :-[

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229222

Offline g

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2014, 06:52:35 AM »
Karl Denninger Explains how Apple is a spy machine. Karl knows his stuff and you can forget about thinking you can protect your privacy with these devices.

Karl appears on spot 1500 of the video, the other sections are quite informative as well.

 
  Steve Keen talks Debt & Karl Denninger on iOS security issues

   Published on Jul 23, 2014

Argentine President Cristina Fernandez's battle against "holdout" investors suing her country is increasing the odds that her government will default for a second time in 12 years. In a hearing on Tuesday, US District Judge Thomas Griesa decided not to grant Argentina's request for more time to negotiate with holdout creditors. Griesa directed both parties to meet with a court appointed mediator to reach a settlement. Erin takes a look.

Then Erin brings you part two of her interview with Dr. Steve Keen, and they explore debt levels and whether steering the economy using short-term interest rates is dangerous. After the break, Erin speaks to libertarian blogger Karl Denninger about mobile devices and privacy, looking especially at the vulnerabilities in your iPhone.

Then in today's Big Deal, Edward Harrison and Erin talk about Apple, China, and the future growth of the mobile market in emerging economies. Check it out!


                                                          <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nfi4_7jvcEA&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/nfi4_7jvcEA&fs=1</a>

Offline Randy C

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Re: The Net an Engineered System of Governance??
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2014, 10:03:00 AM »
I think TPTB didn't have a clue in the beginning that the internet would even be used regularly by people who weren't military or academic. However, as the net has evolved into what we have now, they probably have spent lots of time thinking about how to use its power, and that at this point, they are using it as much as they can for whatever their purpose du jour happens to be.

That's why we see a couple of things occurring...the morphing of the net into a TV-like entertainment medium, because that really suits their purposes...and also a slow erosion of our rights to use the net ourselves for whatever purposes we dream up.

And it's perfect for spying on us to see what we're up to...

I see it as opportunism more than design, but what do i know?

 :emthup:

As much as we like to think the government has it all under control, they don't.  Invent the internet with this long term objective?  Probably not, make use of what is now available?  Of course.  Toss 9/11 in, the Patriot Act, NDAA 2013, etc, before you know it, you have a police state.  No tinfoil hat required...

 

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