AuthorTopic: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades  (Read 12740 times)

Offline RE

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In the Footsteps of Thomas Paine
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2014, 06:06:16 PM »
Another "Blogging is Worthless" post by Moriarty gets DNFed!  :icon_sunny:



Given this is so worthless, one has to wonder why Moriarty haunts the commentariat?  If it is worthless to Blog, it has to be an order of magnitude MORE WORTHLESS to comment on a Blog!

While it is quite difficult to make much dent in the ongoing clusterfuck as a Blogger, a few people have managed to make a dent.  Alexei Navalny for instance.

Quote
Alexei Anatolievich Navalny (Russian: Алексе́й Анато́льевич Нава́льный, Russian pronunciation: [ɐlʲɪkˈsʲej ɐnɐˈtolʲɪvʲɪtɕ nɐˈvalʲnɨj]), born 4 June 1976) is a Russian lawyer, political and financial activist,[1] and politician. Since 2009, he has gained prominence in Russia, and in the Russian and international media, as a critic of corruption and of Russian President Vladimir Putin. He has organized large-scale demonstrations promoting democracy and attacking political corruption, Putin, and Putin's political allies; and has run for political office on the same platform. In 2012, The Wall Street Journal described him as "the man Vladimir Putin fears most."[2]

Over in China, they are sufficiently scared of Bloggers that they Jail them:

Quote
A Chinese court has jailed a blogger for three years, state media has reported – the first person to be sentenced in a government-led crackdown on so-called internet rumours.

Qin Zhihui, one of hundreds of bloggers reportedly detained in an official campaign to assert greater control over China's popular social media, was found guilty of "slander" and "picking quarrels and provoking troubles", state broadcaster CCTV said on Thursday.

In order to make any dent whatsoever, the first thing you gotta do is get out from the over 1M Ranking category, because just about nobody is reading it.  Once you do have some readership, you are at least making a dent in the thinking of the readership.  This may or may not translate into action either on large scale or small, but I do know from emails from a few Diners that information passed on here has caused them to make changes in their lives, so it's worthwhile to do this even if you only make a tiny dent.

The meme is "SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN", and a Blog sure can't save everybody.  At the moment however, since the MSM provides nothing besides the Corporate Matrix Line, Blogs are the best mass media outlet that Alternative Newz & Information has.

Back in the time of the Amerikan Revolution, Pamphleteers like Thomas Paine made a difference.  Blogs are the modern equivalent of those Pamphlets.  Thomas Paine also wrote about CFS:icon_mrgreen:



Thomas Paine RE
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 06:15:00 PM by RE »
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2014, 07:32:44 PM »

presented through most video news has little impact on the day to day live of viewers.  It is not a means to disseminate information but is a means to disseminate that which people should ignore.  One televised, everything becomes old news.


Sure, but just in case lets not take any chances with telling the truth eh?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/new-terror-laws-will-silence-legitimate/5781002
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Online K-Dog

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2014, 10:23:35 PM »



Given this is so worthless, one has to wonder why Moriarty haunts the commentariat?  If it is worthless to Blog, it has to be an order of magnitude MORE WORTHLESS to comment on a Blog!



You answered your own question below.

Quote

Back in the time of the American Revolution, Pamphleteers like Thomas Paine made a difference.  Blogs are the modern equivalent of those Pamphlets.


Blogging and commenting on blogs carries on an American tradition of freedom power would like silenced.  Those  who support BAU deny truth for truth is now against them.  Those to whom I allude are active with time, money, and effort making sure blogging is relegated to a marginal activity.  Those who would do this have no shame and will do whatever is possible to break up any and all discussions of substance.  It is a matter of life, death, and national security.

They are the sophist of modern times.  To them right and wrong are what people say is right and wrong nothing more.  Saying makes it so.  To them might makes right and whatever is necessary to get what one desires is the righteous cosmic order of the universe.  Success is everything, nothing else matters but the man in the mirror.  Being your bane is their self-validation that they are alive.

The thought that nothing compensates for losing your soul is given no attention.  There is no search for a higher way.
.
.
.
So why would one haunt the commentariat? 
.
.
.
If blogging is silenced and controlled what way left is there for Americans to practice political discourse?  There is none.  The charade of the current two party system long ago destroyed real democracy and dialogue.  The MSM is owned by the two party system and BAU.  Without blogging only collapse is possible.

"SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN"

@Uncle Bob  - Had to look up what kind of dog catcher ASIO stood for in your link.  Australian Security Intelligence Organisation.

Ten years, yikes!  Toto and I could be stuck up the creek in a concrete canoe.



« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 10:50:37 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2014, 12:42:34 AM »


Given this is so worthless, one has to wonder why Moriarty haunts the commentariat?  If it is worthless to Blog, it has to be an order of magnitude MORE WORTHLESS to comment on a Blog!



You answered your own question below.

Quote

Back in the time of the American Revolution, Pamphleteers like Thomas Paine made a difference.  Blogs are the modern equivalent of those Pamphlets.


Blogging and commenting on blogs carries on an American tradition of freedom power would like silenced.  Those  who support BAU deny truth for truth is now against them.  Those to whom I allude are active with time, money, and effort making sure blogging is relegated to a marginal activity.  Those who would do this have no shame and will do whatever is possible to break up any and all discussions of substance.  It is a matter of life, death, and national security.

They are the sophist of modern times.  To them right and wrong are what people say is right and wrong nothing more.  Saying makes it so.  To them might makes right and whatever is necessary to get what one desires is the righteous cosmic order of the universe.  Success is everything, nothing else matters but the man in the mirror.  Being your bane is their self-validation that they are alive.

The thought that nothing compensates for losing your soul is given no attention.  There is no search for a higher way.
.
.
.
So why would one haunt the commentariat? 
.
.
.
If blogging is silenced and controlled what way left is there for Americans to practice political discourse?  There is none.  The charade of the current two party system long ago destroyed real democracy and dialogue.  The MSM is owned by the two party system and BAU.  Without blogging only collapse is possible.

"SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN"

QUOTE OF THE MONTH!

There is also a pervasive subtext of fear here in Moriarty, the fear of losing his power and privilege, the fear of having to live in poverty again, not to mention the fear of being strung up by his gonads if held accountable for Crimes Against Humanity as a polluter.

These folks show up on every blog and website I have ever participated on, trying to derail the discussion and obfuscate the issues.  In Moriarty's case though, with every post he demonstrates what a genuinely selfish and self-centered jerk he is, so he tends to undermine his POV more than help it.

RE
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2014, 03:30:19 AM »
Why bother talking about it or even doing anything about it....WHEN IT NEVER ARRIVES. People don't see it because it isn't there..this doesn't say something about THEIR perspective, but the person perpetually crying wolf.
It's arriving, pretty well on schedule:

as predicted 40 years ago if we did nothing to stop it.

It's not that the wolf isn't coming, it's that he's taking a lifetime to get here, and he's 100 feet tall.  We've had plenty of time to prepare beforehand, but once it happens, there will be little we can do.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline RE

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2014, 03:48:17 AM »
It's not that the wolf isn't coming, it's that he's taking a lifetime to get here, and he's 100 feet tall.  We've had plenty of time to prepare beforehand, but once it happens, there will be little we can do.

Moriarty can't see the Wolf.  His future's so dark he has to wear BLINDERS.


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Offline MKing

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2014, 08:04:29 AM »
Why bother talking about it or even doing anything about it....WHEN IT NEVER ARRIVES. People don't see it because it isn't there..this doesn't say something about THEIR perspective, but the person perpetually crying wolf.
It's arriving, pretty well on schedule:

as predicted 40 years ago if we did nothing to stop it.

It's not that the wolf isn't coming, it's that he's taking a lifetime to get here, and he's 100 feet tall.  We've had plenty of time to prepare beforehand, but once it happens, there will be little we can do.

That same wolf was claimed to be coming when lack of tin began to push humanity out of the bronze age. Catton in "Overshoot" lists at least 5 different times where carrying capacity changed in the past, and then claims, no differently than this model, that it can't happen again.

And that graph? See that "resources" line? It isn't HALF of what it was when Meadows pumped this thing out of a computer model (GIGO), it is now HIGHER. And he ran multiple scenarios in that model, and cherry picking one (much like peak oilers have done over the years) that always has the disaster in the FUTURE, ignores all the ones all disproved by reality. Just like Hubbert's peak oil calls for the planet, or all the forests being chopped down by 1920, or lack of oil and gas by 1915, or Ehrlich's claims of the late 60's.

Cherry picking time frames or pieces of models, while critical to neo-malthusian advancement of doom first, doom early, beat the rush, have not worked out before, and suddenly pretending that a computer model that screws up one of the single most critical variables in the mix is no better of an answer than "a blogger told me so".



Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
-Dalai Lama

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2014, 11:28:01 AM »
That same wolf was claimed to be coming when lack of tin began to push humanity out of the bronze age. Catton in "Overshoot" lists at least 5 different times where carrying capacity changed in the past, and then claims, no differently than this model, that it can't happen again.

And that graph? See that "resources" line? It isn't HALF of what it was when Meadows pumped this thing out of a computer model (GIGO), it is now HIGHER. And he ran multiple scenarios in that model, and cherry picking one (much like peak oilers have done over the years) that always has the disaster in the FUTURE, ignores all the ones all disproved by reality. Just like Hubbert's peak oil calls for the planet, or all the forests being chopped down by 1920, or lack of oil and gas by 1915, or Ehrlich's claims of the late 60's.

Cherry picking time frames or pieces of models, while critical to neo-malthusian advancement of doom first, doom early, beat the rush, have not worked out before, and suddenly pretending that a computer model that screws up one of the single most critical variables in the mix is no better of an answer than "a blogger told me so".
Sorry, I didn't place the correct emphasis.... Collapse will occur IF we do nothing to stop it.

You're absolutely correct about times in the past where carrying capacity has changed, and I honestly don't believe it is technically too late to pull it off again this time.

However, if you were really serious about this, you would be on the same side as AGelbert!

He's the one talking about technologies like chemurgy and duckweed that could seriously make a difference.

Definitely, this is still the Ghost of Collapse Future, just showing a shadow of what might be, if we don't change our ways.

Oh, but I'm not convinced that the "Resources" line is screwed up... are you counting fresh water? top soil? industrial minerals?  Petroleum is not the only resource.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Online K-Dog

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2014, 12:13:17 PM »
Oh, but I'm not convinced that the "Resources" line is screwed up... are you counting fresh water? top soil? industrial minerals?  Petroleum is not the only resource.

The resources line is not screwed up but its height is not what is relevant.  What matters is that the line goes flat.  Take away oil cheap enough to pay for extraction and processing and it does not matter the quantity of resources remaining.  It is not cost effective to produce them and they are not produced.


    Day after day, day after day,
    We stuck, nor breath nor motion;
    As idle as a painted ship
    Upon a painted ocean.

    Water, water, every where,
    And all the boards did shrink;
    Water, water, every where,
    Nor any drop to drink.


The Rime of the Ancient Mariner.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline MKing

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2014, 02:31:31 PM »
Sorry, I didn't place the correct emphasis.... Collapse will occur IF we do nothing to stop it.

Conditionals are nice, but have a fundamental problem. We are ALWAYS doing something to stop it. Some of us drive cars now, commuting for weeks without needing liquid fuels, windmills are sprouting in Kansas like weeds, Americans are driving less and children are viewing it as a dirty thing, soon more and more Boomers will die and their influence of consumerism and spend-spend-spend our children's money will wane. Every day, another person, or 20, or 100,000 makes a change that moves the ball away from "doing nothing" towards "doing something".

And this is good.

Quote from: jdwheeler42
You're absolutely correct about times in the past where carrying capacity has changed, and I honestly don't believe it is technically too late to pull it off again this time.

However, if you were really serious about this, you would be on the same side as AGelbert!

Why in the world would I move backwards into using more liquid fuels, or rip the solar panels off the roof, or live in a state making only 3% or something (Vermont anyway) of its power from wind, versus 18%? Certainly I refuse to do petitions when I can act, and be a better steward for the planet, and certainly I won't retract my anti-Big Oil stance by actively decreasing my use of their products. I'm already in transition and don't have much time for those who talk but can't ever seem to achieve liftoff. But I watch other doers very carefully to see what good ideas they might have.

Quote from: jdwheeler42
Oh, but I'm not convinced that the "Resources" line is screwed up... are you counting fresh water? top soil? industrial minerals?  Petroleum is not the only resource.

It isn't. But it is one of the industrial feedstocks that stop other things, like food production, from happening. As far as industrial minerals, they have the same "gee why do we keep finding more" issues as petroleum, that pesky resource pyramid issue applies to them as well. Certainly WATER quantities on this planet haven't changed much, and just as we have been confusing more and more "difficult" petroleum and minerals, water is far, far easier to handle if only because there is so much of it.

There is a reason why collapse claims have been going on for centuries, and a reason why they haven't don't work out so well. Meadow's computer model certainly doesn't change that, and doesn't validate a date any better than Hubbert's bell shaped curve did.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline RE

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2014, 02:35:35 PM »
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 03:32:07 PM by RE »
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Offline MKing

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2014, 02:44:56 PM »
Take away oil cheap enough to pay for extraction and processing and it does not matter the quantity of resources remaining.

That happened right about the same time Limits to Growth came out, and it didn't work that way.

Most people here have actually grown up in a period of growing fuel prices, I mean really, we all know what gasoline at $0.25/gal was like, right? And then when it went to $1, you would have thought the world ended. But it didn't. And then it went to $4. Same thing. But the world still didn't end, and to be honest, in terms of $$ spent on commuting and whatnot, it is cheaper to do it now than it was then.

Behavior changes matter, whether someone likes it or not is a different thing altogether.

Anyone in the peak oil game when $40/bbl was going to cause collapse? In retrospect, that one was as hysterical as the good old days when it zoomed to the moon! $30/bbl!!


Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
-Dalai Lama

Offline JoeP

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2014, 03:31:30 PM »
Take away oil cheap enough to pay for extraction and processing and it does not matter the quantity of resources remaining.

That happened right about the same time Limits to Growth came out, and it didn't work that way.

Most people here have actually grown up in a period of growing fuel prices, I mean really, we all know what gasoline at $0.25/gal was like, right? And then when it went to $1, you would have thought the world ended. But it didn't. And then it went to $4. Same thing. But the world still didn't end, and to be honest, in terms of $$ spent on commuting and whatnot, it is cheaper to do it now than it was then.

Behavior changes matter, whether someone likes it or not is a different thing altogether.

Anyone in the peak oil game when $40/bbl was going to cause collapse? In retrospect, that one was as hysterical as the good old days when it zoomed to the moon! $30/bbl!!

I think MKing raises a good point here. If I only look at what is currently going on under my roof, I see that 8-9 years ago we (wife and myself) had two vehicles that averaged 20 mpg. Then we purchased a Prius.  This became our "primary" vehicle so now we're getting something like 32-35 mpg on average. We will be buying a new vehicle soon...probably next year.  We have not talked much about what the car will be, but we have had a good experience with the Prius, so we'd like to stay with Toyota.  I hear their latest Hybrid Camry gets pretty good mpg.  I wouldn't be opposed to buying another Prius either (if they have improved the lumbar support in the driver seat). In any event, after this purchase, we will probably be getting somewhere around 45 mpg overall. Mostly city driving. So in in a decade, we will have changed to where we are consuming less than half the gasoline we used to.  We are not the only people doing this.

just my straight shooting honest opinion

Online K-Dog

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2014, 03:33:52 PM »

Windmills are sprouting in Kansas like weeds


Wind power generated 4.13 percent of all the electricity in America in 2013 as the fifth largest electricity source in the U.S., according to the latest data from the Department of Energy’s Energy Information Administration (EIA).  Kansas ranks 7th for number of utility-scale wind turbines.  When current Kansas wind projects under construction are completed wind generating capacity in Kansas will bump up by a third.

Sprouting like weeds is subject to some interpretation.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

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Re: The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2014, 03:53:33 PM »
Certainly WATER quantities on this planet haven't changed much, and just as we have been confusing more and more "difficult" petroleum and minerals, water is far, far easier to handle if only because there is so much of it.

Typically misleading Moriarty claptrap.  You are a buffoon.



The total quantity of water isn't the issue, it's the quantity of available fresh water in the places where people live and grow food.


Not like CA is alone with this problem:




The fallacies in the rest of your analysis are too numerous to detail.  However, you wouldn't be able to understand it if I explained it, so I'm not going to waste my time.

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