AuthorTopic: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith  (Read 59817 times)

Online RE

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #345 on: February 09, 2015, 04:34:48 AM »
You are correct RE, there certainly are levels of evil.

I was referring to the bickering and name calling amongst ourselves as we do our best to cope. I feel roamer was beat upon by members for trying his best to cope and being honest, none of us here has the right to belittle his work or question his morality imho. He is but a recent example chosen to illustrate.

Sloppy writing on my part, will attempt to be more precise.

Roamer was hardly "beat on" by Diner standards.

Far as I am concerned, I already said I think he is doing precisely what he should be doing to keep himself floating another day.  However, he cannot justify this by saying that Fracking is the right way to go here, at least not by simply declaring that as truth.  He has to make decent arguments as to how fracking is safe for the water supply, how it is economically justifiable and how people can afford to buy the fracked oil.  He just does not DO that.  He is simply making a self serving argument for why he is doing this, which I completely understand, and if I was his age in the same circumstance would most likely do myself.  Its practical economics.

You are jumping all over the place here, quoting Jesus but then saying there are "Levels of Evil".  I don't think Jesus made distinctions between Global Evil and Local Evil.  Without such distinctions, how do you place blame, and who do you take to account for this?  WWJD?

RE
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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #346 on: February 09, 2015, 04:43:03 AM »
Quote
I don't think Jesus made distinctions between Global Evil and Local Evil.

I can't speak for Him, but am of the opinion he would consider John Corzine or Jamie Dimon in a different light than a teenager that stole a candy bar out of the local Seven Eleven.

In the Roman catholic religion we have what are known as Mortal sins and Venial sins.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #347 on: February 09, 2015, 04:47:09 AM »
I've approved them all but one, which I find to be objectionable. If RE decides this thread is toxic, I guess he can send it to the Smokehouse. I don't think I violated the rules of posting by okaying this stuff, but it's a fine line.

Play nice.

While Eddie, that was very brave of you. Thanks much! It just seems as though the instant Roamer has LEARNED something in meatspace, and brings those ideas back here, he is attacked because some academic who never spent a minute wielding a pipe wrench, let alone doing the real oil field work that Roamer has been at for awhile now, an admittedly advocate who decides it is okay to not tell the truth because the public doesn't understand it, being used as a means to attack Roamer is just flat out unfair and consists of the same sort of bullying applied to me during SpyGate. And Roamer doesn't deserve itÖall he did was let everyone know that he plans on THINKING FOR HIMSELF. While I know this is anathema to some around here, and have always been prepared to accept the consequences for doing so myself, Roamer didn't do anything wrong, isn't a prick like me, and has only decided to THINK for himself. That should be a perfectly legitimate activity without being attacked, or challenged to refute a puff piece by a self admitted advocate for a given position who thinks it is okay to take advantage of the ignorance of the topic among the common folks.

Just step back and admire the form on this victim pose. And while styling himself the vic, he manages more self-puffery.

Magnificent.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Online RE

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #348 on: February 09, 2015, 04:59:34 AM »
Quote
I don't think Jesus made distinctions between Global Evil and Local Evil.

I can't speak for Him, but am of the opinion he would consider John Corzine or Jamie Dimon in a different light than a teenager that stole a candy bar out of the local Seven Eleven.

In the Roman catholic religion we have what are known as Mortal sins and Venial sins.

I tend to agree with that, however your quotation of "Let he who is without Sin cast the first Stone" in no way indicates a difference in the levels of sinfulness and overall responsibility for our Global Predicament.

If you cannot identify the responsible people and blame EVERYONE for being sinful, you cannot correct the problem,  It is defeatist thinking to approach it this way,

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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #349 on: February 09, 2015, 05:08:34 AM »
Again RE, Jesus was talking to a small group of people who wanted to stone a woman they considered a whore.

My comment was meant to apply to the inter Diner moral judgements about what we do to earn our daily bread.

Your dealing with the TPTB swill that control and fuck us daily. Have your way with them please, My hatred of them equals yours.

Online RE

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #350 on: February 09, 2015, 05:15:03 AM »
I've approved them all but one, which I find to be objectionable. If RE decides this thread is toxic, I guess he can send it to the Smokehouse. I don't think I violated the rules of posting by okaying this stuff, but it's a fine line.

Play nice.

While Eddie, that was very brave of you. Thanks much! It just seems as though the instant Roamer has LEARNED something in meatspace, and brings those ideas back here, he is attacked because some academic who never spent a minute wielding a pipe wrench, let alone doing the real oil field work that Roamer has been at for awhile now, an admittedly advocate who decides it is okay to not tell the truth because the public doesn't understand it, being used as a means to attack Roamer is just flat out unfair and consists of the same sort of bullying applied to me during SpyGate. And Roamer doesn't deserve itÖall he did was let everyone know that he plans on THINKING FOR HIMSELF. While I know this is anathema to some around here, and have always been prepared to accept the consequences for doing so myself, Roamer didn't do anything wrong, isn't a prick like me, and has only decided to THINK for himself. That should be a perfectly legitimate activity without being attacked, or challenged to refute a puff piece by a self admitted advocate for a given position who thinks it is okay to take advantage of the ignorance of the topic among the common folks.

Just step back and admire the form on this victim pose. And while styling himself the vic, he manages more self-puffery.

Magnificent.

Poor Moriarty, Victimized and Bullied by Know-Nothing Bloggers!  So Sad. :(

It's tough being a World Class Geochemist on OPBs!  You get shit on non-stop!  However, you keep posting up, because you enjoy the abuse and playing the Victim.

This story is getting old.

RE
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Online RE

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A MISSION FROM GOD
« Reply #351 on: February 09, 2015, 05:27:26 AM »
Your dealing with the TPTB swill that control and fuck us daily. Have your way with them please, My hatred of them equals yours.

I will Soldier On with this task.  :icon_sunny:

It's a MISSION FROM GOD.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-4YrCFz0Kfc?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-4YrCFz0Kfc?feature=player_detailpage</a>

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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #352 on: February 09, 2015, 06:14:41 AM »
Again RE, Jesus was talking to a small group of people who wanted to stone a woman they considered a whore.

My comment was meant to apply to the inter Diner moral judgements about what we do to earn our daily bread.

Your dealing with the TPTB swill that control and fuck us daily. Have your way with them please, My hatred of them equals yours.
Indeed, I think the "cast the first stone" comment really does call on us to differentiate between the kinds of sins we all commit versus institutionalized evil, as evidenced by his reaction to the moneychangers in the temple.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline MKing

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #353 on: February 09, 2015, 06:17:11 AM »
Does anyone get sick and tired of people not listening when I tell them that fracking has been going on for more than half a century and they keep PRETENDING otherwise to make some rhetorical point?
I certainly do... I knew the fracking boom was coming shortly after the turn of the millennium.  It was just a matter of oil becoming expensive enough -- about $70 a barrel -- for it to be worthwhile.

Commerciality was established by about 1949, when the nominal price of oil was $3/bbl perhaps? Real price of $20/bbl perhaps, in 2011 dollars?

Recommendation...get access to the IHS database, and go add up all the frac jobs between 1949 and whatever point in time you think $70 was hit, and when you see that the answer to that question requires 7 figures to quantify, we can talk about what you know about the fracking "boom" being a turn of millennium event. Or not.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #354 on: February 09, 2015, 06:34:59 AM »
You are correct RE, there certainly are levels of evil.

I was referring to the bickering and name calling amongst ourselves as we do our best to cope. I feel roamer was beat upon by members for trying his best to cope and being honest, none of us here has the right to belittle his work or question his morality imho. He is but a recent example chosen to illustrate.
Far as I am concerned, I already said I think he is doing precisely what he should be doing to keep himself floating another day.  However, he cannot justify this by saying that Fracking is the right way to go here, at least not by simply declaring that as truth.  He has to make decent arguments as to how fracking is safe for the water supply, how it is economically justifiable and how people can afford to buy the fracked oil.  He just does not DO that.  He is simply making a self serving argument for why he is doing this, which I completely understand, and if I was his age in the same circumstance would most likely do myself.  Its practical economics.
I agree with Roamer that we are in a predicament here and there are no good solutions.  And I agree with RE that Roamer is doing what is best for Roamer, and none of us can fault him for that.  (Although I really, really hope that Roamer is putting at least 5-20% of the money he is saving up into precious metals -- and not just the paper kind -- it would be somewhat tragic if after all he did he got wiped out by bank failures.)

However, just because you're using the system to your advantage doesn't mean you should be supporting it.  In my case, if income taxes were repealed or made so simple any idiot could do them, I would lose a career -- and I would be very, very happy about it.  The benefits to society would be so great -- including my share in them -- I wouldn't mind the loss of income.  So I support any efforts to seriously reform and simply the tax code, even though it goes against my professional interests.  (Of course, any reform efforts that are not serious just make things more confusing and give me even more job security.)

In Roamer's case, until they start shutting down drilling operations due to lack of workers, somebody is going to get the oil companies' money for running the rigs, and I'd rather it be someone like Roamer who is committed to working towards a more sustainable world.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline Surly1

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #355 on: February 09, 2015, 08:13:45 AM »
I've approved them all but one, which I find to be objectionable. If RE decides this thread is toxic, I guess he can send it to the Smokehouse. I don't think I violated the rules of posting by okaying this stuff, but it's a fine line.

Play nice.

While Eddie, that was very brave of you. Thanks much! It just seems as though the instant Roamer has LEARNED something in meatspace, and brings those ideas back here, he is attacked because some academic who never spent a minute wielding a pipe wrench, let alone doing the real oil field work that Roamer has been at for awhile now, an admittedly advocate who decides it is okay to not tell the truth because the public doesn't understand it, being used as a means to attack Roamer is just flat out unfair and consists of the same sort of bullying applied to me during SpyGate. And Roamer doesn't deserve itÖall he did was let everyone know that he plans on THINKING FOR HIMSELF. While I know this is anathema to some around here, and have always been prepared to accept the consequences for doing so myself, Roamer didn't do anything wrong, isn't a prick like me, and has only decided to THINK for himself. That should be a perfectly legitimate activity without being attacked, or challenged to refute a puff piece by a self admitted advocate for a given position who thinks it is okay to take advantage of the ignorance of the topic among the common folks.

Just step back and admire the form on this victim pose. And while styling himself the vic, he manages more self-puffery.

Magnificent.

Poor Moriarty, Victimized and Bullied by Know-Nothing Bloggers!  So Sad. :(

It's tough being a World Class Geochemist on OPBs!  You get shit on non-stop!  However, you keep posting up, because you enjoy the abuse and playing the Victim.

This story is getting old.

RE

Not for him.

A bad case of masturbation addiction.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Surly1

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #356 on: February 09, 2015, 08:30:33 AM »
You are correct RE, there certainly are levels of evil.

I was referring to the bickering and name calling amongst ourselves as we do our best to cope. I feel roamer was beat upon by members for trying his best to cope and being honest, none of us here has the right to belittle his work or question his morality imho. He is but a recent example chosen to illustrate.

Sloppy writing on my part, will attempt to be more precise.

Roamer was hardly "beat on" by Diner standards.

Far as I am concerned, I already said I think he is doing precisely what he should be doing to keep himself floating another day.  However, he cannot justify this by saying that Fracking is the right way to go here, at least not by simply declaring that as truth.  He has to make decent arguments as to how fracking is safe for the water supply, how it is economically justifiable and how people can afford to buy the fracked oil.  He just does not DO that.  He is simply making a self serving argument for why he is doing this, which I completely understand, and if I was his age in the same circumstance would most likely do myself.  Its practical economics.

RE

I tend to agree with both of you, FWIW.

1) I would like to see a little less name calling among our regulars, and less descent to ad hom. There are those who deserve the full measure of scorn of which a human is capable; and we know who he is. As for the rest of us, we tend to get a little chippy, and that's not always necessary to make the point.

2) Roamer was not "beat on" by Diner standards at all. RE challenged his ideas. That's fair and legit, and I am looking forward to Roamer's answer, as he usually makes pretty good sense. That R is pursuing an individual employment strategy that makes sense is unarguable, plus none of our business. He is also of a generation that will be creating responses to our current quandary, and/or living with the consequences, which makes his contributions that much more valuable.

3) Fracking operations vary in terms of oversight and safety. As in any line of human endeavor, there are those both scrupulous and unscrupulous operators. Given the tendency of extractive industries to externalize public health and mitigation costs, the industry bears the burden of proof for safety.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline WHD

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #357 on: February 09, 2015, 07:03:10 PM »
Stpaulygirl:
Quote
While I have only known Roamer a short time, I have met him and we had real conversations. I have looked him in the eyes and I see a kindred soul. If anyone will be in a position to be part of the changes and innovations that need to happen in the future, especially those related to the conservation of the Earth, he will be a leader and educator in many of these areas. Not only do I know that he can but also that he will do it. This capability is because of the skills, experience, and education he has, but also because he wants to do the right thing.

JDW:
Quote
In Roamer's case, until they start shutting down drilling operations due to lack of workers, somebody is going to get the oil companies' money for running the rigs, and I'd rather it be someone like Roamer who is committed to working towards a more sustainable world.

I support Roamer. I worked for one of the biggest banks in the world, and I didn't turn into a banker.

WHD


Offline WHD

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #358 on: February 09, 2015, 07:11:20 PM »
Misdirection. Obfuscation. Predictable as a clock.

WHD


The craziest shit is, MKing, you aren't even that good at obfuscation. You just bury people with the volume of it. Cheney indeed.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/safety-first-fracking-second/

Your link does not verify your claim that Cheney is somehow responsible for the use of a particular well completion technique that predates your birth, or his first master of the universe plans during college. Cheney was certainly involved in the industry at a later point in time, but you do not get to pretend that it was he who somehow changed the rules which allowed it....half a century after it was already becoming established within the oil and gas industry.

Quote from: WHD
As for that EIA link, did you think I wouldn't read it, hack obfuscator?

I provided it for your education, of course I thought you might read it. Education and learning are always good, even if people refuse to participate in their rush to judgement that supports their preconceived notions on the topic.

Offline right to left

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Re: Religionís smart-people problem: The shaky foundations of absolute faith
« Reply #359 on: August 05, 2017, 01:13:12 AM »
An important piece in the puzzle of why some people are religious, while others are skeptical about divine purpose in our world or in our lives in particular, can be better explained by a theory of mind called Dual Process Theory - which contends that we have two systems of thinking and decision-making going on constantly within our brains.
1. At a conscious level

 

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