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Online Eddie

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A Seastead With Wheels
« on: December 29, 2014, 03:37:23 PM »



I thought I'd post this, even though it might be considered a little far-fetched. We've talked about boats, and how the main difficulty in maintaining a potential floating bug-out vehicle has to do with parking these days...slips generally run $300-400 per month here, unless you can negotiate a better deal with someone who owns private waterfront. Much of the country it's about the same, but some places, NY, CA, or HI are more.

Perhaps it hasn't been mentioned, but there are other ongoing costs of owning a boat that have to do with bottom painting, replacing sacrificial zincs, varnishing any sun-exposed woodwork, and painting and resurfacing weather exposed decks, whether they be fiberglass or some other material, keeping some kind of engine running to get in and out of harbors and other tight spaces....it's a lot, and the costs go up exponentially with every foot in length. Rigging, the stuff that holds up the mast and take the stress of the wind, that has to be maintained and eventually replaced.

You might have noticed that smart solo sailors almost always prefer fairly small boats. Ray Jason's boat is a thirty footer. It's because it's less work to sail, more manageable in a storm, and more maneuverable in tight quarters. The trade-off is living space and storage. The boat my wife and I used to dream about owning was a Hardin 45, a huge thing with a salon big enough to throw a cocktail party, and a huge galley, pilot house...really nice when parked but a pain in the ass to get in and out of the average marina, so much so that many owners equipped them with bow thrusters to help them turn in tight marinas.

There is a boat called the Nor'Sea 27, a compact but well thought out boat designed by the late Lyle Hess, who started his career by building a small boat he and his brother used to sail down in Baja. He met a guy with similar ideas to his (smaller is better) named Wixom, and together they built many of these well-founded micro-yachts, which have been referred to as "simply the finest small voyaging vessel ever built". The idea was that they would be light enough to trailer. They weren't that light because they had a cast lead keel, so they are more properly referred to as transportable, rather than trailerable. They still make them, but really top flight boats aren't cheap, and a new one might go today for $175,000 or a bit more with upgrades, including a triple axle trailer. And you'd need at least a one ton pick-up to pull it.

But the nice news is that in today's deflationary environment, you could expect to find a decent used Nor'sea 27 for maybe 35-40K, with trailer. Not the cheapest boat out there, but built like a brick shithouse, and cleverly laid out. Several have circumnavigated, and several sailing couples have made one their home for periods of years.

And you could store it indoors on the trailer, out of the sun, out of the salt water, and out of the rain. Cost on the Texas coast, maybe $135/month. A trained crew of two can launch in 3 to 4 hours.

To me this compares favorably cost-wise to owning a medium-sized RV, and an awful lot of people seem to have the money to buy those.

I saw this one on my semi-local CL, which is what got me thinking.

http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/4795861097.html





« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 03:46:17 PM by Eddie »
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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2014, 04:31:32 PM »



I thought I'd post this, even though it might be considered a little far-fetched. We've talked about boats, and how the main difficulty in maintaining a potential floating bug-out vehicle has to do with parking these days...slips generally run $300-400 per month here, unless you can negotiate a better deal with someone who owns private waterfront. Much of the country it's about the same, but some places, NY, CA, or HI are more.

Perhaps it hasn't been mentioned, but there are other ongoing costs of owning a boat that have to do with bottom painting, replacing sacrificial zincs, varnishing any sun-exposed woodwork, and painting and resurfacing weather exposed decks, whether they be fiberglass or some other material, keeping some kind of engine running to get in and out of harbors and other tight spaces....it's a lot, and the costs go up exponentially with every foot in length. Rigging, the stuff that holds up the mast and take the stress of the wind, that has to be maintained and eventually replaced.

You might have noticed that smart solo sailors almost always prefer fairly small boats. Ray Jason's boat is a thirty footer. It's because it's less work to sail, more manageable in a storm, and more maneuverable in tight quarters. The trade-off is living space and storage. The boat my wife and I used to dream about owning was a Hardin 45, a huge thing with a salon big enough to throw a cocktail party, and a huge galley, pilot house...really nice when parked but a pain in the ass to get in and out of the average marina, so much so that many owners equipped them with bow thrusters to help them turn in tight marinas.

There is a boat called the Nor'Sea 27, a compact but well thought out boat designed by the late Lyle Hess, who started his career by building a small boat he and his brother used to sail down in Baja. He met a guy with similar ideas to his (smaller is better) named Wixom, and together they built many of these well-founded micro-yachts, which have been referred to as "simply the finest small voyaging vessel ever built". The idea was that they would be light enough to trailer. They weren't that light because they had a cast lead keel, so they are more properly referred to as transportable, rather than trailerable. They still make them, but really top flight boats aren't cheap, and a new one might go today for $175,000 or a bit more with upgrades, including a triple axle trailer. And you'd need at least a one ton pick-up to pull it.

But the nice news is that in today's deflationary environment, you could expect to find a decent used Nor'sea 27 for maybe 35-40K, with trailer. Not the cheapest boat out there, but built like a brick shithouse, and cleverly laid out. Several have circumnavigated, and several sailing couples have made one their home for periods of years.

And you could store it indoors on the trailer, out of the sun, out of the salt water, and out of the rain. Cost on the Texas coast, maybe $135/month. A trained crew of two can launch in 3 to 4 hours.

To me this compares favorably cost-wise to owning a medium-sized RV, and an awful lot of people seem to have the money to buy those.

I saw this one on my semi-local CL, which is what got me thinking.

http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/4795861097.html

Ed when I saw u  considering the canada stead, I thought u were going off track and seasteading  with a predetermined somewhat prepared destination was the better bugout option.
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Online Eddie

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2014, 04:40:51 PM »
For the moment. all options are open. It's a good practice to brainstorm. Thanks for your feedback. That's why I share my ideas with you guys. You will not let me live in fantasy for very long.

The reality is that I'm tied to a job that can't be readily transported. The skills can, but the patient base, built over many years, cannot. It would be expensive to own a boat just for a bug-out, unless I really need one. Then it would be the cheapest insurance I ever purchased. So it bears consideration.
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Online RE

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 04:58:52 PM »
For the moment. all options are open. It's a good practice to brainstorm. Thanks for your feedback. That's why I share my ideas with you guys. You will not let me live in fantasy for very long.

The reality is that I'm tied to a job that can't be readily transported. The skills can, but the patient base, built over many years, cannot. It would be expensive to own a boat just for a bug-out, unless I really need one. Then it would be the cheapest insurance I ever purchased. So it bears consideration.

I take credit for this plan, I suggested it several times already. :P

I still like the Ian Farrer Folding Trimarans.  Because they have no weighted keel, they are much lighter to pull.  They go much faster than a keelboat, and they have very shallow draft and can be easily beached.  You pretty much can sail anywhere a canoe has enough draft, go places keelboats just can't go.

As you can see, this one goes on a single axle trailer just fine.



They are narrower than keel boats so less room inside in the cabin, but a lot more room on deck because of the wings.  You could store a lot of preps in water tight containers on the wings.


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Online Eddie

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2014, 05:31:55 PM »
A Farrier design Corsair 27 is about the biggest trailerable one of those trimarans. They are extremely basic in their appointments, and not considered suitable for ocean crossings by most people. Still, the points you mentioned are worth considering. Price on the used market is similar to the Nor'sea.

Here's part of a review I found.

The F-27 is certainly not a boat for anyone interested in roomy accommodations. Though the body of the main hull flares out a great deal above the waterline to maximize interior space, the layout and furnishings are cramped and strictly minimal. There is only sitting headroom, except under the pop-top roof near the companionway where the simple galley is located. Berthing is limited: in the tiny aft cabin there is a narrow double berth, there are two narrow settee berths in the saloon (separated by a small removable table), plus there’s a tiny berth suitable for a small child in the forepeak.

Even a couple sailing alone on this boat will want to spend much of their time, weather permitting, hanging out in the cockpit or on the wide nets between the amas and the hull. As such, the F-27 serves best as a weekend cruiser with perhaps occasional stints aboard as long as a week or two. Though several of these boats have made ocean passages, they are not really suitable for long-range bluewater cruising unless you are something of a masochist.
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Online RE

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2014, 07:26:26 PM »
A Farrier design Corsair 27 is about the biggest trailerable one of those trimarans.

The 34' versions are trailerable, they fold to 8'6" width.

Seller's Note
1999 Contour 34 Trimaran Sailboat For Sale in Hamilton Ontario

Sailboat - Contour 34 Trimaran, 1999. Cole Beadon design. Located in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Single owner. Asking price $69,500 Cdn. Length: 34' Width: 24'4", 12' folded, 8'6" for trailering Bridge clearance: 50' Draft: 5'3" (daggerboard down), 1'3" (daggerboard up) The boat is optimized for shorthanded cruising or racing Tacks and jibes effortlessly and safely All sail controls, including a reefing line, are led to the cockpit Oversized, upgraded deck hardware, such as self-tailing Lewmar sheet winches, Garhauer blocks Included with the boat: Self-tacking jib 125% genoa Oversized square top mainsail, full-batten, large roach, lazy jacks Kevlar screacher Storm jib (The Gale Sail, hoisted over the furled headsail) Bowsprit Separate Harken tracks for the self tacking jib, Genoa and screacher Rotating mast with rotation limiter Electric winch for single-handed mainsail hoisti...

You can also vastly increase usable interior space while at anchor or docked (most of the time) by having a couple of Dome Tents to set over the wings.  I think the 20' X 10' size would work well.  You could NOT do this with a keelboat.

A few folks have circumnavigated in the 27' Farriers.  However, coastal sailing the better choice for the novice.

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« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:13:19 AM by RE »
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Trimaran Solar-Electric Auxiliary Motor System
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2014, 11:06:58 PM »
I thought of another advantage for the Trimarans.

Because they are much lighter than keelboats and pull less draft, you could power them easily for maneuvering around packed Marinas with a couple of electric trolling motors mounted on the Pontoons, each powered by DC Marine Batteries in water-tight compartments in Pontoons, and Solar PV arrays to charge the batteries  which you mount while at anchor to charge.

Trimaran Solar-Electric Auxiliary System
Trimaran Solar-Electric Auxiliary System

Tremendous advantage here with the two motor system, because by running one forward and the other reverse, you could basically turn around on its own footprint without Bow Thrusters.

You also keep aboard a powerful Gas Outboard motor to mount on the central hull, say a Merc 150 HP job powerful enough to drive the boat into a 50 MPH Headwind to navigate into the Fjord where Ocean Falls and Wallace Bay are located.    So you don't have to risk sailing in there with the shifting winds, you just drive the sucker straight through them for the last few miles.

To get from the West Coast of Texas to Ocean Falls is a straight shot up the coast.  All you need is enough gas in the tank of your 1T Pickup to drag the boat from its shelter at the Toothstead across Texas and drop it in the water there, sail up the coast to British Columbia, and when you hit the right Fjord, if the weather is bad drop the Merc on the rear transom and power your way in.  If it is mild weather, you probably can do it with the electric trolling motors.  You might even be able to sail most of the way in if the conditions are decent.

The ULTIMATE Bugout Prep Machine!  :icon_sunny:

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« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:15:06 AM by RE »
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Online Eddie

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2014, 12:13:51 PM »
Eight feet is the limit to put a boat on the road here without a special permit (meaning tax and a licensed, bonded mover). The newer Corsair 32 fits the bill, but at a high cost...over a hundred thousand. The 27's were real pricey too, new. Now that there's a lot of them out there, and since people are getting rid of pleasure boats as they deleverage, it has gotten better. A 32 ft Farrier design would be great if you could find one for the right price.

People like the torqueedo electrics for cats and tris. Some nice videos on youtube, of people playing around with that.  A 150 horse gas engine would be WAY too heavy for even a 34. A thirty horse would be fine for a light boat like that. With two torqueedos, though, you might not even need any gas engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udBoNSPZYBo
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Online Eddie

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2014, 01:24:35 PM »
The ULTIMATE Bugout Prep Machine!  :icon_sunny:

I like it, but it only looks adequate for a solo sailor.

 I never sailed one of those Farrier designs, but I have a friend who raced a Corsair. Did you know if the rudder breaks you can find yourself sailing backwards? It happened to my friend. No shit whatsoever on that story.
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Online RE

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2014, 01:39:11 PM »
Eight feet is the limit to put a boat on the road here without a special permit (meaning tax and a licensed, bonded mover). The newer Corsair 32 fits the bill, but at a high cost...over a hundred thousand. The 27's were real pricey too, new. Now that there's a lot of them out there, and since people are getting rid of pleasure boats as they deleverage, it has gotten better. A 32 ft Farrier design would be great if you could find one for the right price.

People like the torqueedo electrics for cats and tris. Some nice videos on youtube, of people playing around with that.  A 150 horse gas engine would be WAY too heavy for even a 34. A thirty horse would be fine for a light boat like that. With two torqueedos, though, you might not even need any gas engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udBoNSPZYBo

Box trailers are 8'6", all you need is a CDL to pull them.  Anyhow, I think in a bugout situation the cops are going to be too busy to haul you over for being 6" overwidth.  Worst you get here is a fine, and if you slip the cop a C-Note I'm sure when he measures the width it will come in at 8' exactly.  LOL.

On power, OK, a 30hp plus two torqueedos sounds good.

Price is definitely an issue when new, just gotta watch the used market.

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Online Eddie

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2014, 01:49:46 PM »
Anyhow, I think in a bugout situation the cops are going to be too busy to haul you over for being 6" overwidth.

The key would be to have storage very close to your intended launch site, which is doable here. The 8 ft. rule was something I read, haven't actually gone to the trouble of checking the statute. Bribing cops here is not a strategy I'd recommend. Better to be quick and not get caught if you were breaking laws. In a true SHTF situation, I'd be trying hard to not encounter ANY cops or bureaucrats. The nice thing is that you could put one of those tris in at just about any boat ramp, and there are a lot of boat ramps on the Texas coast. Thousands..you'd just need to do a little research, find one far from town, preferably. There are some lonesome stretches on the Texas coast.

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Online RE

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2014, 01:54:05 PM »
Anyhow, I think in a bugout situation the cops are going to be too busy to haul you over for being 6" overwidth.

The key would be to have storage very close to your intended launch site, which is doable here. The 8 ft. rule was something I read, haven't actually gone to the trouble of checking the statute. Bribing cops here is not a strategy I'd recommend. Better to be quick and not get caught if you were breaking laws. In a true SHTF situation, I'd be trying hard to not encounter ANY cops or bureaucrats. The nice thing is that you could put one of those tris in at just about any boat ramp, and there are a lot of boat ramps on the Texas coast. Thousands..you'd just need to do a little research, find one far from town, preferably. There are some lonesome stretches on the Texas coast.

Lemme know when you find the right boat at the right price and the right location to store it on the cheap, I'll chip in.  :icon_sunny:

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Online Eddie

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Re: A Seastead With Wheels
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2014, 02:06:38 PM »
Texas law, like most fucking law, is ambiguous. While the maximum width for a trailer without a special permit is 8ft 6 in, there is another law that says that a "passenger vehicle and its load" cannot exceed 8 ft.

I'm guessing in most cases  8 ft 6 inches would be fine behind a bigger pickup.

Those big folding cats seems to be few and far between on the used market.  And expensive. Maybe next year, when the market loses 50+ percent, it might be a different story.

Interesting that boats keep getting cheaper, and slips, more expensive.
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