AuthorTopic: Welcome!  (Read 59280 times)

Online RE

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Welcome!
« on: February 19, 2012, 03:57:45 PM »
Welcome to the Doomstead Diner!  Here you will find a great hub for discussion and information pertaining to the ongoing Economic Collapse of the Industrial Economy.

DD is the result of the last 5 years of research and debate we have been engaged in on many other boards, including the Reverse Engineering Yahoo Group, where the founding members of this board all come from.  There are many great sources of information out there still, good Blogs and a few good message boards as well.  Here at the DD, our goal is to bring together all the information we can to assist in planning for the world to come.

Blogs and Message Boards both have their limitations, so to overcome them we have integrated both formats into this website.  All the posts made on our Blog are mirrored  inside the database of the Mesage Board, and are categorized for easier research of older posting.  We have enabled HTML and Photo and Video embedding for any member who posts up inside the message board area, so you can compose your own articles complete with all the multimedia you would like to include in the body of the article.  This takes some playing around with, but we will have an FAQ section here to answer questions on how you do this.

There are no explicit "rules" or Code of Conduct here at DD.  We do however hope that members will keep in check the temptations to ad hom arguments and excessive Napalm.  If it gets out of control, the Mod staff here reserves the right to ban posting.  No posts will ever be edited for content, it either posts up or it doesn't or gets deleted.

We hope that all members will be respectful of each other and maintain decent decorum in the discussions and debates, and understand their legal responsibilities for what they write.  We provide the Forum for discussion, but we do not control what you choose to keyboard out.  This responsibility ultimately falls on you.

With all that in mind, we Welcome you here to join with us on the Doomstead Diner as we investigate, discuss and debate the ramifications of the Economic Collapse of Industrial Civilization.  Often referred to in shorthand as TEOTWAWKI.  The End of the World as We Know It.

RE
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 04:49:48 PM by RE »
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Offline peter

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 09:40:15 AM »
 
Here's my take on equality and the intent of this forum...
(Forum administration is not excluded.)

Rather than talking specifics I'll talk about my philosophy regarding the role this forum could possibly play in our lives.
 
The Internet has brought forward a lot of information that suggests our current way of life is very destructive to the world in general and also to ourselves. There are many indicators that our society will self-destruct if we don't change our ways.


However there is a large contingent of our society that is still comfortable within the status quo and really resents that anyone is suggesting that they/we must change our ways. They have a strong vested interest in maintaining the status quo.


TPTB are the worst offenders and use their power and influence to try to stamp out any dialog among disaffected people that would jeopardize their position. They actively fund/organize efforts to keep Internet discussion from effectively leading to change.


The way this  is accomplished is mostly covertly by creating dissension between individuals so they can't organize themselves to effectively create an alternative lifestyle.  Understanding how this is accomplished is essential to avoiding their trap.


We have been conditioned from birth to unconsciously accept that there is only one truth that must apply to everyone equally. For others to think and act differently than ourselves is seen as offensive, often to the point of starting wars and worse. Creating one rigid set of laws and rules which 'you/we' favour can never work for everyone. This applies to a forum along with other aspects of life.


Understanding that  "truth" is always "relative" rather than "absolute" is essential to learning to interact with others comfortably.

I'll use an analogy to describe the difference between "absolute" and "relative".

 
If myself and someone else were both looking at one of my cats for the first time, each from a single fixed but different position, and we had never seen a cat before, and I was looking the cat in the face, and the other person was looking at the cat from the rear, we would each describe the cat very differently.




About all we could agree upon is the general colour. Because of the way we have been conditioned we would likely end up in an argument because we each see very different things. Such arguments are actively encouraged in our society.



In the analogy above the way to approach agreement/cooperation is to both step out of our rigid fixed initial position and look at the cat from more angles. After each viewing the cat from many different relative positions, we would discover  that both of us had been right. We also discover that a cat has more aspects than just the one seen from our original fixed position. In fact there are infinite relative aspects to a cat all of which are just as valid as any other.




It is critical to understand that in real life, similar to the example above, every single situation we encounter has all the aspects of a cat [infinite] and that anyone else may potentially have a valid opinion or vision even if it disagrees with ours.

IF we desire to cooperate/coexist we must be respectful of each other and assume the other persons views are as valid as our own and the only apparent differences are the result of the other person viewing a different aspect of the situation than the one we have seen.

Adding the information others provide to our own allows us to get a fuller [more accurate?] view of the situation. Disregarding the other person's input leaves us stuck with our own limited perspective. Being stuck leads to arguments with others instead of constructive dialog.



In the real world we do need to assess the other person's ability to grasp the "big" picture. If it becomes obvious they are stuck in a single "absolute" viewpoint and unwilling to increase their perspective/understanding then their input is of 'limited' value. Even then they should be dealt with respectfully. Calling them idiots and worse for being unable to grasp the bigger picture starts wars.



It is possible to disagree in a respectful manner but this is mostly missing on the Internet. Respectful behavior towards each other on the internet and elsewhere is critically needed if we hope to change the world.

My intent is to make this forum a place where we can increase our understanding cooperatively which will result in our being able to create a different and hopefully better world.


 


Peter


 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 11:05:53 AM by peter »

sensetti

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2012, 05:46:26 AM »
RE

I see you have been busy! I am looking forward to the new blog, it looks great. :)

sensetti

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 12:20:05 PM »
thanks sensetti.  the "look" of the blog is the work of our resident computer wizard, Peter. should be a fun place for collapse discussion  8)

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Offline Danno

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 07:18:11 PM »

Hi All,
Thanks for letting me join. I like the post Peter, a decent take on humanness. As this looks to be the 'Welcome' thread, I'll introduce myself here!

I've been a student of all things for some time now. I started coming out of my stupor some 12 years ago when I found out about the limits of resources starting with oil. I have a son and a daughter in law that get it. They are the only people I know on the meat plain that I can learn from. I'm trying to put an act together here that may bring our community up to speed. It is not that they don't want to but, IMHO, lack the information to make reasonable decisions to meaningfully affect their future. TPTB, resources, how money works... My son and I have come to the conclusion that we are pretty much screwed where the whole world is concerned. I have hopes that community can survive.

To be clear, I don't see an 'event', an Armageddon, in our future. At least, nothing that will change our rural setting other than we-be the frog in the kettle. I'm old enough that my concern is not for my ass, but for my kids'. My boy is scary smart, but I don't think life would be very worth living if he had to do it without community, smart or not.

As far as the economy, I see it is a lively topic here. I'll post there eventually. In a nut shell, I think looking at the numbers will reveal the future. There is little chance of hyperinflation, we just don't have the mechanism to support it. Sure government spending is getting a bit much and the QEs are akin to printing. But the dollar amounts are rather paltry compared to total credit market debt.  And BTW, I am staunchly opposed to the system of legal tender as bank created money. It is sad that most folks in this country don't have a clue as to how fundamentally corrupt this is. They hear capitalism and stop there. If they would look capitalism up in the dictionary and compare it to our present condition... But that would mean doing some work.

9/11? It was a couple of years after it happened and the other theory came to my attention. As one person brought up the approach of F77 I thought I would run the numbers and snuff that out. The numbers told me I could not. There is no way an airliner, even with a well seasoned pilot, could make that approach on the pentagon. Of course, I found so many things wrong with that day from there. If the same experts that defend the official story would just 'do the science', but they won't.

My son is a student of human nature. His latest books, 'The Authoritarian' and 'The Psychopath Test'. It is from books like these that he thinks we are screwed. I see the occupiers gather to listen to the likes of Robert Reich as if a god, I think we are screwed.

So, this looks like it will be a fun place!

Best, Dan.

Offline peter

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 08:03:04 PM »
Hi Dan.... Welcome on board. Good post! I'm looking forward to picking your brain.

Offline Danno

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 07:10:32 PM »
Hi Peter,
Thanks. Don't pick too much, I don't have a lot left. :)

We'll see if I survive this place. I've only stuck with one listserver group for an extended time. My day job is going to keep me pretty busy until May.

Best, Dan.

Offline peter

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 08:11:43 PM »
"The Psychopath Test", sounds interesting. What is it?

Offline Danno

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 08:40:30 PM »

It was written by Jon Ronson, the same guy that did 'The Men Who Stare at Goats'. It is investigative journalism on the subject of psychopathy. It gets slow toward the end but not hard to read. There was a 'This American Life' on psychopaths about a year ago he had a hand in. The test was created by Robert Hare who is interviewed quite a bit in the book.

Jon does not try to lead you to any conclusions, he did a good job of just being a journalist. Right after you read the book you might find psychopaths under the bed :) They are really all around us. I think the book leads to a better understanding of our condition. Mitt Romney seems to pass the test with flying colors. Dog on the car roof and all.

I found 'The Authoritarian' even more interesting. It is so how human nature works at the tribe level.

Best, Dan.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6MWpxH-RlFQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/6MWpxH-RlFQ</a>

Offline peter

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 09:22:15 PM »
This book is a very difficult read but offers a lot of insight.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/224670-Political-Ponerology-A-Science-on-The-Nature-of-Evil-adjusted-for-Political-Purposes



Quote
Comment: Now more than ever people need to understand the devastation and suffering wrought on our world by the few at the expense of the many. Presented for the first time on Sott.net, what follows is Laura Knight-Jadczyk's comprehensive review of Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes, the product of monumental efforts from intrepid researchers of a generation past to bring humanity into awareness about the psychopaths that rule our world.

Its been a few years since I read the book but I remember I uploaded a copy to share. I'll find it and put up a link. There is a lot of good relevant material at SOTT.

Online RE

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 09:56:07 PM »
This book is a very difficult read but offers a lot of insight.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/224670-Political-Ponerology-A-Science-on-The-Nature-of-Evil-adjusted-for-Political-Purposes



Quote
Comment: Now more than ever people need to understand the devastation and suffering wrought on our world by the few at the expense of the many. Presented for the first time on Sott.net, what follows is Laura Knight-Jadczyk's comprehensive review of Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes, the product of monumental efforts from intrepid researchers of a generation past to bring humanity into awareness about the psychopaths that rule our world.

Its been a few years since I read the book but I remember I uploaded a copy to share. I'll find it and put up a link. There is a lot of good relevant material at SOTT.

We probably should make a Reference Book Page, especially with books that are available online as pdfs.  On the To Do List.
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Offline reanteben

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 11:18:00 PM »
welcome dan!

seen 'fishead' and listened to the this american life episode, the latter of which I felt was a bit of a soft-peddle.

this 37min vid, 'defense against the psychopath,' is a good primer. towards the end it details the two options for dealing with a psycho. the recommended one is to evade them, much as peter did with his visitor, and the other, last resort option, is to expose them. nothing worse than a blown cover, apparently, for a psycho.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/MgGyvxqYSbE&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/MgGyvxqYSbE&fs=1</a>

following up on peter's post, nassim at TAE introduced the board to 'political ponerology.' here's an interview with the editors of the book that I enjoyed very much:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148141-The-Trick-of-the-Psychopath-s-Trade-Make-Us-Believe-that-Evil-Comes-from-Others

Offline peter

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 07:41:50 AM »
Finally got through fishead on my less than stellar satellite link. Overall I think it's an excellent video however there's a couple of significant disconnects for me.

The video does a good job of describing the harm done by individual psychopaths but doesn't touch on what happens when the majority or all top positions in corporate or public organizations eventually become filled with psychopaths because they get rid of all those that have a conscience. Psychopaths do seem to be able to cooperate with other psychopaths just fine if it suits their purposes. When their combined efforts capture an asset it appears to me they then use that asset to further consolidate control both inside and outside the organization. Eventually everyone is required to take on psychopathic attributes just to survive.

The final segment that suggests that being a good/positive example affects those around you and also makes them better people probably only applies to non-psychopaths. I think it is dangerous to leave the audience hanging without warning them that such methods might not work with psychopaths.

Offline peter

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2012, 07:45:40 AM »
Here's a link to get the book Political Ponerology

« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 02:43:12 PM by peter »

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Re: Welcome!
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2012, 01:12:20 PM »
Hi Peter, reanteben

So I read the start of the book in pdf. Thanks. Good stuff. I've ordered the book, 300+ pages, I've got to use paper. I spend enough time looking at this screen now. I've missed many of the books my son has read as he Kindles them.

Yea, NPR soft peddles everything from what I see. I do have KJZZ in my ear all day. But I don't watch TV and read major media rags; it is my current even feed. I see NPR as the leftest-pseudo-intellectual authoritarian. Much like FOX is the authoritarian for the right side types. They both have the same agenda. Keep folks asking the wrong questions so they don't have to worry about the answers.

And yes, I agree with your assessment of fishhead. The hope bit in the end just didn't ring. But it is typical to conclude with, 'there is a fix!' If we had some bacon, we could have bacon and eggs, if we had some eggs...

Best, Dan.