AuthorTopic: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism  (Read 16665 times)

Offline MKing

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2015, 12:23:59 PM »
Enough about  me. You're going to paint a target on my back.

Now Eddie, you haven't been playing the over worked poor guy while hiding expensive motorcycles, ski boats, multiple homes, profitable businesses and rental properties from everyone have you?

Most are just jealous Eddie, don't ever forget there is nothing to be ashamed of in generating results in this world, ever. Some just don't have what it takes and want to be rewarded for trying is all.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Online Eddie

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2015, 12:38:36 PM »
I'm not ashamed of any thing I've done, although if i knew then what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.

This whole thread was meant to point out that the difference between my financial status and that of the average working stiff is bupkus, compared to me vs. those RE refers to as masters of the universe. And yet, I can't seem to say that without it turning into a class war, not between us and them, but between us.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2015, 12:45:50 PM »
Enough about  me. You're going to paint a target on my back.

Look at the bright side.  As soon as the wealth disappears, the target disappears with it.   :icon_sunny:

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Offline MKing

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2015, 12:46:23 PM »
I'm not ashamed of any thing I've done, although if i knew then what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.

Isn't that the truth.

Quote from: Eddie
This whole thread was meant to point out that the difference between my financial status and that of the average working stiff is bupkus, compared to me vs. those RE refers to as masters of the universe. And yet, I can't seem to say that without it turning into a class war, not between us and them, but between us.

Hang out with those who don't do so well in the results department, and you won't ever get them to admit why things worked out the way they did. Many try, some achieve. Those that try and do not achieve can be more than a little cranky about the whole affair, and DARING to mention that they might have something to do with the outcome isn't likely to win you any friends among them.

Plus you let them see your goodies. There is a reason "thou shalt not covet" is written into the Bible...even OLD folks knew the "why" on this one.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline RE

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2015, 01:05:05 PM »
This whole thread was meant to point out that the difference between my financial status and that of the average working stiff is bupkus, compared to me vs. those RE refers to as masters of the universe. And yet, I can't seem to say that without it turning into a class war, not between us and them, but between us.

The Class War dividing line is between those for whom the system works and those for whom it does not work.

Greece and Syriza is a very good example.  The only people in Greece who are worried about being pitched out of the Euro are those who still have jobs paid in Euros.  The rest of the population has nothing left to lose, they are already dead broke.

Coming soon to a theater near you.

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Offline azozeo

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2015, 01:10:48 PM »
Threads take on a life of their own. That's the fun of it. Who cares where they go.
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Online Surly1

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2015, 01:35:00 PM »
I'm not ashamed of any thing I've done, although if i knew then what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.

Isn't that the truth.

I think you might reach near-mystical unanimity among Diner forum posters on that assertion.
Write me down in the "Hell, yes" column. In ink.

Quote from: Eddie
This whole thread was meant to point out that the difference between my financial status and that of the average working stiff is bupkus, compared to me vs. those RE refers to as masters of the universe. And yet, I can't seem to say that without it turning into a class war, not between us and them, but between us.

Hang out with those who don't do so well in the results department, and you won't ever get them to admit why things worked out the way they did. Many try, some achieve. Those that try and do not achieve can be more than a little cranky about the whole affair, and DARING to mention that they might have something to do with the outcome isn't likely to win you any friends among them.

Plus you let them see your goodies. There is a reason "thou shalt not covet" is written into the Bible...even OLD folks knew the "why" on this one.

That is unnecessarily harsh, if not surprising. Plenty of us have tried things, have failed, and have learned from the failure, and don't blame anyone else. It really doesn't take too many years before you realize that measuring your worth in goods or cash is a loser's game. One of the smartest men I know just retired, and he realized that the highest value in his life was to retain as much free time as possible. So for decades he was able to schedule his work life into three working days per week.

IMO, that is real wealth.
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline Joseph McCafferty

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2015, 02:20:11 PM »
It's a fine line between credit and debt, and that line is poverty. That's three financial conditions one can be in. Poverty is when you have nothing, debt is when you have minus, and credit is when you have plus.

What you describe as poor RE, I describe as debt peonage. I see that as running as fast as one can, to stay in the same spot. The minute someone in that condition stops running - whoosh! - the deeper they slide into debt. That mirrors the other side of the poverty line which is credit. This is the condition of the rich. It's not just a mirror - one creates the other, so if you want to be rich, people have to be in your debt. These credits and debts are externalities, you can destroy them and you won't die. Your body, mind and what's in your mind - your learning - are your internalities, and are there for you. When someone has no external credit to pay their debit, they have to use their internal wealth, they have to sell it to pay the debit.

Eddie's a fine example of flirting either side of the poverty line. He's got some houses, and if you want to live in one of them, you are automatically in debt to him. How much credit has he got? Well it's an equal and opposite number to the amount of debit his renters have got. You could say, "Aah, but he owns the houses too." How much credit has he got there? Well it's an equal and opposite number to the amount of debit that someone would have to pay to buy it off him
But the world doesn't revolve around Eddie and his renters. He's got his own debts, and they are such that he has to sell his internal wealth - he has to work. His credit only takes him a short distance from the poverty line, and his renters debts only take them a short distance from the poverty line on the opposite side.

This is tolerable for both parties, but what of the people who are further away from the poverty line on the credit side? There has to be an equal and opposite amount of debt. So if someone wants to sit on a yacht, and on their laptop watch their wealth grow, with a cabin crew member serving them G & T, you can bet their is an opposite to that which is absolute and chronic squalor. There is the poverty of having nothing, everything else is rent.

Now you mentioned the 3rd world RE, and you said we're not allowed bring that in. I ain't going to, because there isn't one. We are humans on planet Earth. Now some places on Earth there are people who live in this poverty of which I speak. They don't owe anybody anything, and nobody owes them anything - the whole community is that way. They get all their essentials: song, stories, laughter, love, for free. They are free; they are a community. They get all their food, health care, water, shelter for free - they are poor. To be poor is to have everything for free.

This is not something another person allowed them to do - it is God's covenant. Because in this universe He allowed to be, where there is cataclysm and destruction, He owes you everything. Guess what? He paid it. What does He say? "Just accept it. I give it to you for free - you don't owe me anything."

So you get given the universe, and you're not happy with that. You want more. You have to get someone else's universe....

I'm going off on a tangent here, and making myself angry. I'll just say, what the hell gives anyone the right to say they want to be anything other than poor? To be poor is to be blessed with the universe and everything in it.

I couldn't disagree more.

[1] As Steve often points out, Tycoons like Bill Gates are in fact the biggest debtors.  The Tycoon has access to gobs of credit which the customers are expected to pay off.

[2]Eddie is like an Oil Drilling company, the only difference is he drills teeth instead of the earth and doesn't have access to as much credit as a Fracker does, but it is still a healthy amount.  In his case, his patients are expected to pay off Eddie's debts.

[3]We are not talking about spiritual wealth or impoverishment here, we are talking strictly about material wealth and how you are able to live, what your domicile is, how many of them you have for yourself or you rent to others etc.

[4]I have been to Eddie's house and to his Ranch.  Eddie is not Middle Class.  He likes to self identify as such, but he is not.  He is Rich.  He is not Filthy Rich nor is he a Master of the Universe, but it's ludicrous to call his lifestyle "Middle Class".

RE

1) Yes, the tycoon has gobs of credit. How much? An equal and opposite number to what the customers need to pay.

2) Eddies customers aren't paying his debts. They are paying their debt for Eddie's wealth (sorry Eddie, just using you as an example - I could use myself) Eddie's wealth is his knowledge, skills and resources in dentistry. If you have a bad tooth and want to keep it, you have to pay your debt to Eddie. If Eddie wants to get more gold to fill more teeth, he has to pay his debt to the gold dealer.

3) I'm not talking about spiritual wealth - because there's no such thing. I'm talking about wealth, poverty and debt.

4) I'm not saying he's middle class. I'm not saying he's any class. I'm saying he's a man like you and me.


Offline knarf

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2015, 02:39:43 PM »
I'm not ashamed of any thing I've done, although if i knew then what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.

Isn't that the truth.

Quote from: Eddie
This whole thread was meant to point out that the difference between my financial status and that of the average working stiff is bupkus, compared to me vs. those RE refers to as masters of the universe. And yet, I can't seem to say that without it turning into a class war, not between us and them, but between us.



Hang out with those who don't do so well in the results department, and you won't ever get them to admit why things worked out the way they did. Many try, some achieve. Those that try and do not achieve can be more than a little cranky about the whole affair, and DARING to mention that they might have something to do with the outcome isn't likely to win you any friends among them.

Plus you let them see your goodies. There is a reason "thou shalt not covet" is written into the Bible...even OLD folks knew the "why" on this one.

If you are talking about financial results, let me tell you straight up, that I quit the upward climb up that financial ladder on purpose. I didn't fail. The people I was around, the totally unimaginative things they talked about, the dealing and backstabbing that went on, the games you were made to play for the management and customers, and the total lack of spiritual friendships, that is why I left the business I was really good at ( conventionally speaking ). I covet no material wealth also to debunk that silly passage out of the Bible!
Mark Twain ó 'There are many humorous things in the world; among them, the white man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages.'

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2015, 03:28:17 PM »
I'm not ashamed of any thing I've done, although if i knew then what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.

Isn't that the truth.

Quote from: Eddie
This whole thread was meant to point out that the difference between my financial status and that of the average working stiff is bupkus, compared to me vs. those RE refers to as masters of the universe. And yet, I can't seem to say that without it turning into a class war, not between us and them, but between us.



Hang out with those who don't do so well in the results department, and you won't ever get them to admit why things worked out the way they did. Many try, some achieve. Those that try and do not achieve can be more than a little cranky about the whole affair, and DARING to mention that they might have something to do with the outcome isn't likely to win you any friends among them.

Plus you let them see your goodies. There is a reason "thou shalt not covet" is written into the Bible...even OLD folks knew the "why" on this one.

If you are talking about financial results, let me tell you straight up, that I quit the upward climb up that financial ladder on purpose. I didn't fail. The people I was around, the totally unimaginative things they talked about, the dealing and backstabbing that went on, the games you were made to play for the management and customers, and the total lack of spiritual friendships, that is why I left the business I was really good at ( conventionally speaking ). I covet no material wealth also to debunk that silly passage out of the Bible!

Knarf Mking is showing a selfish side of life. As for 'that silly passage' the commandment is Thou shalt not covet THY NEIGHBORS WIFE.

Debunk these silly passages; "It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a camels hair rope  to enter the eye of a needle." Eddie obsessing over the lifestyle of the rothschilds and complaining he isnt getting their tax breakes is looking back like Lot's Wife, Im trying to get people to understand that in forming a community for those with the money or the best means of making the money which is the gatekept professions in a shrinking economy, its better to be like the party host in the parable who provided the poor with his own dress code coat so they could come in, I know Eddie has it in him.

I used to live in a house that fits RE's criteria of rich now in a simple farmhouse the size of the ones he categorizes middle class, but I relate to what you say about the people u used to be surrounded by. My neighbors before were just as you say, shitty people. My neighbors now are people I admire for their ingenuity and self sufficiency skill but also just being better company. I love getting called up to bring junior along and help because some extra muscle is needed to put poles in holes or whatever. Even though Im so tired from travelling an hour to work and an hour back again, I dont say see you saturday, I say see u when I get home this evening, because we will do something where I am not the source of knowledge but just helping and learning and after that we have dinner together and talk, and the achievement competition of the city is left behind like so much silly nonsense. Our western culture is too individual and seperate, helping others with less is just paying it forward, someone will help you in some way sooner or later if you do it happily.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:41:21 PM by Uncle Bob »
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Offline RE

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2015, 03:46:47 PM »

1) Yes, the tycoon has gobs of credit. How much? An equal and opposite number to what the customers need to pay.

No, not equal and opposite.  There's an INTEREST charge on the debt.  It compounds over time, and as the Tycoon takes on more debt to build railroads (or Microshit, or Facepalm etc) eventually the Industry goes BK and the Taxpayers are left with paying off the debt.

2) Eddies customers aren't paying his debts. They are paying their debt for Eddie's wealth (sorry Eddie, just using you as an example - I could use myself) Eddie's wealth is his knowledge, skills and resources in dentistry. If you have a bad tooth and want to keep it, you have to pay your debt to Eddie. If Eddie wants to get more gold to fill more teeth, he has to pay his debt to the gold dealer.

Let's drop Eddie out of this and substitute The Internist, whose office I just returned from after a 45 minute Initial Visit which he charged $500 for, not including the Blood Tests.  I am paying his debt for the Big Lakehouse he lives in, his Office Building, the McMansions his staff lives in and so forth. The bigger the biz you run, the more debt there is floating around, which is shifted to the customer to pay.  The Internist has a captive clientele, so can live a high debt lifestyle charging whatever the Insurance companies will pay out.  If you don't have Insurance, you don't go to the doctor, it's too expensive.  That is demand destruction in Medicine.

3) I'm not talking about spiritual wealth - because there's no such thing. I'm talking about wealth, poverty and debt.

Surly brought up Spiritual Wealth, and I think quite a few Diners would disagree with the idea there is no such thing as Spiritual Wealth.  However, this conversation is about Material Wealth, so I was reinforcing this fact.

4) I'm not saying he's middle class. I'm not saying he's any class. I'm saying he's a man like you and me.

I am reminded here of the conversation between F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway:

 
   Fitzgerald: The rich are different than you and me.
    Hemingway: Yes, they have more money.


The Class Difference is plain and obvious.  All you have to do is look at what kind of Domicile the person lives in.

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Online Eddie

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2015, 03:48:19 PM »
Eddie obsessing over the lifestyle of the rothschilds and complaining he isnt getting their tax breakes is looking back like Lot's Wife,

No Bob. I began this thread by pointing out how the POTUS is screwing people like me ( and you, btw, if you lived here) and passing it off as "soaking the rich". That was my entire point. That REALLY pisses me off. It isn't right, and I said so. End of message.

I generally allow what MK says on my threads. Not because I agree, but because it lets everyone read what he says and make their rebuttals.

I like my lifestyle. I've been a poor student. Went to school until I was 32 years old, with two kids already. I was just as happy then as I am now...but life is easier. I don't mind saying. You know I believe in community. I've tried to bring all of us together in the virtual world and in the real world too.


What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2015, 03:54:19 PM »
No Bob. I began this thread by pointing out how the POTUS is screwing people like me ( and you, btw, if you lived here) and passing it off as "soaking the rich". That was my entire point. That REALLY pisses me off. It isn't right, and I said so. End of message.

Except Obama-sama IS Soaking the Rich.

He's just NOT soaking the Filthy Rich and the Masters of the Universe.

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Online Eddie

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2015, 03:58:01 PM »
Fitzgerald: The rich are different than you and me.
    Hemingway: Yes, they have more money.



Great quote, but I'm given to understand that it was actually never said. It was made up by Hemingway. Originally it was in The Snows of Kilimanjaro, which was originally published in a magazine....but Fitzgerald, who was still alive at the time, complained to the publisher.

In later reprints elsewhere Fitzgerald's name was removed and the exchange attributed to a made-up character named Julian.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online Eddie

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Re: Martin Armstrong Debunks Obama's False Populism
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2015, 03:59:39 PM »
He's soaking any family with a combined gross income of 150K. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel on rich in my book, bubba.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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