AuthorTopic: Privare: To deprive, to take, to rob.  (Read 13689 times)

Offline Ka

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Re: Privare: To deprive, to take, to rob.
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2015, 01:39:06 AM »

Ka and Ashivin,
The bottom line is that humans, although we are tasked as self aware beings with being stewards of those life forms who are not, are a function of the biosphere, just as all the other life forms are.

We have NOT "risen above" the other life forms with our polluting example. The reverse is true. Our science CANNOT replace life forms that go extinct. We can't even make a paramecium! We are STUCK when a large enough percentage of the biosphere we MUST have to survive dies off. And THAT is ALREADY BAKED IN, according to Hansen and thousands of other serious scientists.

We have NOT earned the right to do anything on this biosphere except to obey the rules of  planetary biochemistry that our scientists have discovered. We don't do that and we die, period.

Agreed.

Quote
So we can sit here and hem and haw about whether this or that system is "doable", "practical" or "too utopian" while we are oh, so cautious in not wanting to tinker with all those "Great traditions" and "individuality" and "freedom" that gave us our present Dystopia. Good luck with that.

As far as I can tell, I am in full agreement with you as to the correct attitude and actions for the individual and society to take with respect to the environment. That's the whole point of it being GREEN Libertarian Socialism. As to the libertarian socialism, as I see it, that is the only way that what you want to see happen w.r.t. the environment can be institutionalized. What do you propose instead?

Offline agelbert

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Re: Privare: To deprive, to take, to rob.
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2015, 03:36:00 PM »

Ka and Ashivin,
The bottom line is that humans, although we are tasked as self aware beings with being stewards of those life forms who are not, are a function of the biosphere, just as all the other life forms are.

We have NOT "risen above" the other life forms with our polluting example. The reverse is true. Our science CANNOT replace life forms that go extinct. We can't even make a paramecium! We are STUCK when a large enough percentage of the biosphere we MUST have to survive dies off. And THAT is ALREADY BAKED IN, according to Hansen and thousands of other serious scientists.

We have NOT earned the right to do anything on this biosphere except to obey the rules of  planetary biochemistry that our scientists have discovered. We don't do that and we die, period.

Agreed.

Quote
So we can sit here and hem and haw about whether this or that system is "doable", "practical" or "too utopian" while we are oh, so cautious in not wanting to tinker with all those "Great traditions" and "individuality" and "freedom" that gave us our present Dystopia. Good luck with that.

As far as I can tell, I am in full agreement with you as to the correct attitude and actions for the individual and society to take with respect to the environment. That's the whole point of it being GREEN Libertarian Socialism. As to the libertarian socialism, as I see it, that is the only way that what you want to see happen w.r.t. the environment can be institutionalized. What do you propose instead?


Well, I propose that we go from a defunct "carrying Capacity" meme to a "Caring Capacity" meme.
This world view modification is life promoting, instead of death rewarding.

First, we would need to adopt Hansen's "Golden Opportunity" (tax and dividend) on fossil fuels  along with the elimination of any and all subsidies and tax deductions for exploration for fossil fuels.

Second, codifying into international law fines and/or imprisonment for biosphere harming activities (e.g. fossil fuel exploration and non-bioremidiated mining) must occur across the board in order to ensure compliance to the Caring Capacity meme.

Third, we adopt the product of a Caring Capacity concept called a modified Borsadi Constant.  The modification consists of Biosphere math applied to the basket of commodities Borsadi proposed. The modified Borsadi Constant must be the ONLY LEGAL TENDER in order to ensure compliance to the Caring Capacity meme.
Of course, the international community could expand that basket to include other, less known, but important commodities vital to biosphere restoration. This requires a planetary ecology inventory of the biosphere by objective scientists. 

An inventory of the biosphere must be RADICALLY different than those now made by the CIA and all the other profit over planet exploiters that operate on the carrying capacity meme (i.e. ANYTHING we get from the ground that harms the biosphere MORE than nurtures it MUST be considered too expensive to extract, period).

For those that will wail and moan about how we need fossil fuel this and fossil fuel that (pesticides, fertilizers, plastics, etc.) in order to avoid having to cull the human population, I present to you the example of China BEFORE the industrial revolution.

For over 1,000 YEARS they had such a perfectly balanced use of human feces for fertilizing crops, that they obtained a population density FAR above anything any other country in the world has reached as of this date. And they did that WITHOUT warring on other countries (yeah they had internal conflict but nobody's perfect!  ;D)  and WITHOUT CAPITALISM several centuries before the industrial revolution. 

With the knowledge we now possess, ALL the products we need to thrive can be obtained IN HARMONY with the biosphere. Any population pressure we experience can be solved by GROWING the biosphere onto arid, desolate portions of the globe. There are a LOT of those.

When the limit to THAT is reached within a century or so, we can terraform mars to give us another 1000 years of growing elbow room. It's a BIG universe out there! The reason more people don't see this is that they are brainwashed to think SCARCITY, SCARCITY and SCARCITY equals VALUE. That's the exploitive, profit over planet mindfuck we have been visited with for the benefit of the Gordon Gecko IDIOTS.


Here's the CARING CAPACITY CURRENCY part of the proposal:


Dystopia:

The "currency" of Dystopia:

3 09 Ralph Borsodi Constant Currency

22 § Community Currency Magazine March 2009 Issue
Quote

The BorsodI Constant aka “the Exeter experiment ”InFLatIon Free Currency (approximately 1971-1974)


United States Constitution forbids the counterfeiting of this nation’s currency, however, it in no way limits the circulation of a completely alternative medium of exchange...

3 09 Ralph Borsodi Constant Currency

What MUST we do to have a type of FUNCTIONAL society based on human CARING CAPACITY instead of the exploited biosphere's "carrying capacity"?  ???

We must adopt a currency that reflects REAL VALUE in the biosphere. The use of this currency must nurture LIFE, not reward coercion, greed, war and death.

Ralph Borsodi came up with a local currency called the "CONSTANT".

I like it. With some fine tuning   ;D, it would fit the bill for a Green Libertarian Socialist  currency that would meet the Caring Capacity requirement to nurture LIFE, not reward coercion, greed, war and death.

SNIPPET:
Quote

The first Constants were sold on June 21st 1972. Over a period of about three years, Borsodi presented his ideas to many people who deposited approximately $100,000 in his bank experiment called Arbitrage International and the funds were used to buy the basket of 30 basic commodities on the world market. (Arbitrage International maintained a Luxembourg and a London office, in addition to its temporary headquarters in Exeter, New Hampshire.)

“The value of a Constant was based on that of specific amounts of thirty basic commodities,
including gold, silver, iron, aluminum, lead, copper, nickel, tin, zinc, coal, oil, wheat, barley, rice, rye, oats, soya, maize, wool, cotton, cocoa, coffee, copra, hides, jute, rubber, cement, sulphur and sugar, and holders could sell them at any time for the total of whatever the constituents were then worth:



Borsodi’s organisation, Independent Arbitrage International, recalculated the Constant’s underlying value monthly and let the banks know. “ People who bought Constants from Borsodi’s organisation at, say, $2.18 a 10-Constant note were surprised later when the bank
paid them $2.19 for it” a local newspaperman, Mel Most, wrote after the experiment had been running for seven months.” 

“To everybody’s surprise, even including Borsodi, many people bought Constant notes and made deposits in the bank checking account. At the same time Constants began to circulate around the town of Exeter, where restaurants and other businesses accepted them in payment.”

The participants in the experiment saw the value of their constant rise 17% in three years. 36 months into the test, “...a constant bought in 1970 can still be traded for exactly one constant’s worth of goods . . . while a dollar will now buy only 85% of what it would purchase three years ago.”

3 09 Ralph Borsodi Constant Currency

HERE is the typical BALONEY double talk response from the gooberment:
Quote
What did the U.S. Treasury Department have to say about the private currency? 

A Treasury agent was quoted at the time saying, “We don’t care if he issues pine cones, as long as it is exchangeable for dollars so that transactions can be recorded for tax purposes. ” 


"Tax purposes" DOES NOT HAVE BEANS to do with it and COERCION to make people accept a  worthless fiat currency issued by the "Federal" Reserve has EVERYTHING to do with it. But they don't say that, do they?  ;)  THE INSTANT people with REAL currency try to PROPERLY value fiat dollars (see USED toilet paper or less), the profit over planet counterfeiters get their balls in an uproar. 







 

 
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

 

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