AuthorTopic: The Official Refugee Thread  (Read 122593 times)

Offline Mercury

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2015, 02:34:05 PM »
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 02:37:15 PM by Mercury »
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Offline MKing

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2015, 02:39:26 PM »
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero and your relatives can't get out.

Just be glad that you didn't bring their failings with you. As far as nowhere to run or hide, of course there is. For some it is Alaska, for others places in Central America, you can hide in plan sight in America, and even get ahead if you bring with you from a foreign land something many Americans lack nowadays, which is an understanding of hard work and being in a better place here in the States, as compared to where they came from.
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2015, 03:21:48 PM »
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero.

Glass half empty...

If u look on the bright side, a UN mission will be set up which injects a lot of money into local economy and employs local people, a very sweet gig to get in on. Resettlement programs and housing keep social workers and builders busy. A million Syrians and Africans a year will offset the europeans declining population problem  and DNA does love diversity.

Never mind that if we didnt colonise,  exploit and export all of africas agricultural and mineral commodities out for ourselves, the shafted people wouldnt be following where their wealth ends up. As for the Syrian and Afghan refugees,  what do they have in common with the Vietnamese boat people in the late 70s early 80s?  They were all doing just fine as long as we left them alone,  which kind of makes them more or less our problem.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 03:42:43 PM by Uncle Bob »
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Offline Mercury

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2015, 03:28:04 PM »
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero.

Glass half empty...

If u look on the bright side, un mission will be set up which injects a lot of money into local economy and employs people to a very sweet gig. resettlement programs and housing keeps builders busy, a million syrians and africans a year will offset the europeans declining population and dna loves diversity. Never mind that if we didnt colonise,  exploit and export all of africas agricultural and mineral commodities out for ourselves the people wouldnt be following where their wealth ends up. As for rhe syrian and afghan refugees,  what do they have in common with the vietnamese boat people in the late 70s early 80s?  They were all doing just fine as long as we left them alone,  which now makes them our problem.

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Offline luciddreams

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2015, 04:31:01 PM »
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Offline Mercury

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2015, 04:55:47 PM »
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.
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Offline agelbert

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2015, 05:00:21 PM »
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The cost of sanity in this society is a certain level of alienation. - Terrance McKenna

Human alienation aside, some aliens, however, might get a lot of good laughs out of our Natural De-selection  trajectory.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 05:02:24 PM by agelbert »
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2015, 05:39:13 PM »
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.

Talk about cognizant dissonance.  I was born in the USA and have lived here my entire life (outside of the 6 months on an air craft carrier).  I have no desire to be poor.  I have no desire to immiserate whole continents for my way of life either.  I have no choice in any of this (outside of gaming the system like I'm doing).  I have children.  We do what we have to do where we are I suppose.  I'd rather my country live honestly, but that option got chucked out the window a long time ago...if it ever was an option.  I mean the US did start off by doing it's level best to exterminate the "savages."  I guess if there is any honesty to us we can find it there.  At least we can say we started off as a seedling nation by exterminating millions of natives. 

Still, there is a small part of me that wants to be proud of this nation.  What I thought it used to stand for at least.  Justice?  I think that's always been a philosophical idea that our human nature will not allow for. 

Offline RE

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2015, 06:23:16 PM »
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.

Talk about cognizant dissonance.  I was born in the USA and have lived here my entire life (outside of the 6 months on an air craft carrier).  I have no desire to be poor.  I have no desire to immiserate whole continents for my way of life either.  I have no choice in any of this (outside of gaming the system like I'm doing).  I have children.  We do what we have to do where we are I suppose.  I'd rather my country live honestly, but that option got chucked out the window a long time ago...if it ever was an option.  I mean the US did start off by doing it's level best to exterminate the "savages."  I guess if there is any honesty to us we can find it there.  At least we can say we started off as a seedling nation by exterminating millions of natives. 

Still, there is a small part of me that wants to be proud of this nation.  What I thought it used to stand for at least.  Justice?  I think that's always been a philosophical idea that our human nature will not allow for.

As far as the people who currently live in Italy and Greece are concerned, I doubt they think of these folks as EITHER Climate Refugees or victims of Western Imperialism.  To them, they are just boatloads of poor people who they can't support.

The truth of course is that both are contributing factors.  Western Imperialism is the product of the industrial revolution, climate change is partially the result of the industrial revolution also and so is population overshoot.  The latter is the real issue at work here of course.  Too many people for a given area of land to support.

Sadly, the places they are trying to migrate to also are in a situation of population overshoot, though not quite so bad as Syria of course.  You do know I trust that drought has been ongoing in Syria so long now that many towns inhabited since Biblical times have had to be abandoned.  Those people migrated into Syrian cities, where there were no jobs for them.  Then their own Civil War breaks out, and they try to escape that.

As far as what the FSoA ever "stood for", there is what you were taught in school as to what it stood for and then there is REALITY.  All you have to do is read Smedley Butler's War is a Racket to know that going well back into the 1800s all the FSoA ever stood for was conquering other lands and killing off anyone standing in the way.  Manifest Destiny was all about wiping out the Native population, which was pretty well done by 1900, then the army and navy headed down to South America.  We got a foothold in Asia when Matthew Perry brought his gunboats to Japan in the 1850s.

Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.

Far as your complicity or my complicity in this goes, we are just passengers on the Titanic, we're not in control of the rudder or the engines or the navigation as we move toward the iceberg.  The Syrian Refugees are stowaways who get pitched off the Titanic with no Life Preserver even before it hits the iceberg.

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Offline agelbert

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2015, 07:14:17 PM »
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.

Talk about cognizant dissonance.  I was born in the USA and have lived here my entire life (outside of the 6 months on an air craft carrier).  I have no desire to be poor.  I have no desire to immiserate whole continents for my way of life either.  I have no choice in any of this (outside of gaming the system like I'm doing).  I have children.  We do what we have to do where we are I suppose.  I'd rather my country live honestly, but that option got chucked out the window a long time ago...if it ever was an option.  I mean the US did start off by doing it's level best to exterminate the "savages."  I guess if there is any honesty to us we can find it there.  At least we can say we started off as a seedling nation by exterminating millions of natives. 

Still, there is a small part of me that wants to be proud of this nation.  What I thought it used to stand for at least.  Justice?  I think that's always been a philosophical idea that our human nature will not allow for.

As far as the people who currently live in Italy and Greece are concerned, I doubt they think of these folks as EITHER Climate Refugees or victims of Western Imperialism.  To them, they are just boatloads of poor people who they can't support.

The truth of course is that both are contributing factors.  Western Imperialism is the product of the industrial revolution, climate change is partially the result of the industrial revolution also and so is population overshoot.  The latter is the real issue at work here of course.  Too many people for a given area of land to support.

Sadly, the places they are trying to migrate to also are in a situation of population overshoot, though not quite so bad as Syria of course.  You do know I trust that drought has been ongoing in Syria so long now that many towns inhabited since Biblical times have had to be abandoned.  Those people migrated into Syrian cities, where there were no jobs for them.  Then their own Civil War breaks out, and they try to escape that.

As far as what the FSoA ever "stood for", there is what you were taught in school as to what it stood for and then there is REALITY.  All you have to do is read Smedley Butler's War is a Racket to know that going well back into the 1800s all the FSoA ever stood for was conquering other lands and killing off anyone standing in the way.  Manifest Destiny was all about wiping out the Native population, which was pretty well done by 1900, then the army and navy headed down to South America.  We got a foothold in Asia when Matthew Perry brought his gunboats to Japan in the 1850s.

Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.

Far as your complicity or my complicity in this goes, we are just passengers on the Titanic, we're not in control of the rudder or the engines or the navigation as we move toward the iceberg.  The Syrian Refugees are stowaways who get pitched off the Titanic with no Life Preserver even before it hits the iceberg.

RE

It's happening in many places in the world. Dominicans trying to get to Puerto Rico (for a better life, not because of the environment, YET) drown on a regular basis in the turbulent Mona Passage. A pack of desperate people gets sold a crappy boat, proceed to overload it and the rest is bodies floating at sea.  :emthdown:
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Offline RE

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2015, 07:36:34 PM »

It's happening in many places in the world. Dominicans trying to get to Puerto Rico (for a better life, not because of the environment, YET) drown on a regular basis in the turbulent Mona Passage. A pack of desperate people gets sold a crappy boat, proceed to overload it and the rest is bodies floating at sea.  :emthdown:

Dominicans trying to get to Puerto Rico, and Puerto Ricans trying to get to Amerika, because Puerto Rico is running out of water too!

Eventually, millions of Californicators will try to migrate to Alaska too, and then where will the Alaskans migrate to?  Nunavut?

Mexicans will pour across the border into Texas, where they are not exactly doing so great right now themselves on the water end.  Are Texans welcoming Mexican refugees?

Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Borders are going to be shut down, that is of course already underway with the building of fences and so forth.  People arriving on boats if they make whatever crossing they are trying alive in a piece of shit boat will be shot on site on arrival.

"This is not the end.  It is not even the beginning of the end.  It is however, the end of the beginning."

Thank you Illuminati Scumbag Winston Churchill.

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Offline luciddreams

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2015, 08:00:25 PM »

As far as the people who currently live in Italy and Greece are concerned, I doubt they think of these folks as EITHER Climate Refugees or victims of Western Imperialism.  To them, they are just boatloads of poor people who they can't support.

It's worse than that even.   Because the Greeks can't even support themselves.  So this is unsupportable economic non-person country men being asked by chance to support economical/climate/US imperial over reach victims who only wish they could be unsupportable like the Greeks.  That's fucked man :emthdown:

Quote
The truth of course is that both are contributing factors.  Western Imperialism is the product of the industrial revolution, climate change is partially the result of the industrial revolution also and so is population overshoot.  The latter is the real issue at work here of course.  Too many people for a given area of land to support.

Sadly, the places they are trying to migrate to also are in a situation of population overshoot, though not quite so bad as Syria of course.  You do know I trust that drought has been ongoing in Syria so long now that many towns inhabited since Biblical times have had to be abandoned.  Those people migrated into Syrian cities, where there were no jobs for them.  Then their own Civil War breaks out, and they try to escape that.

Then ISIS says, " that's the enemy over there, the ones that bomb you with toy airplanes controlled on the other side of the world by second generation gamer dorks." 

Quote
As far as what the FSoA ever "stood for", there is what you were taught in school as to what it stood for and then there is REALITY.  All you have to do is read Smedley Butler's War is a Racket to know that going well back into the 1800s all the FSoA ever stood for was conquering other lands and killing off anyone standing in the way.  Manifest Destiny was all about wiping out the Native population, which was pretty well done by 1900, then the army and navy headed down to South America.  We got a foothold in Asia when Matthew Perry brought his gunboats to Japan in the 1850s.

My bamboo teacher is a Japanese man.  We have interesting conversations about this history.  He recently told me that the US is detonating nuclear bombs under the ground for research and development in the good ole USA.  Is that true? 

Quote
Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.

The Chinese are patient.  It won't surprise me if that polarity gets reversed and we become the slaves.  I'm hoping that my bamboo nursery and bamboo culture will convince them that I and mine are worth keeping around.  However, before that I'm hoping that the shit storm we're headed into will make industrial imperial conquest a thing of the past. 

Quote
Far as your complicity or my complicity in this goes, we are just passengers on the Titanic, we're not in control of the rudder or the engines or the navigation as we move toward the iceberg.  The Syrian Refugees are stowaways who get pitched off the Titanic with no Life Preserver even before it hits the iceberg.

RE

Or barnacles on the side of the ship. 

Offline RE

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2015, 08:35:39 PM »

My bamboo teacher is a Japanese man.  We have interesting conversations about this history.  He recently told me that the US is detonating nuclear bombs under the ground for research and development in the good ole USA.  Is that true? 
 

There was a lot of underground testing of nuclear weapons done in the 1950s and 1960's but I don't think it is done very much here now.  They got the weapons pretty well figured out here on how they work.

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Offline agelbert

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2015, 02:41:17 PM »
Quote



RE said, Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.


Lucid said, The Chinese are patient.  It won't surprise me if that polarity gets reversed and we become the slaves.  I'm hoping that my bamboo nursery and bamboo culture will convince them that I and mine are worth keeping around.  However, before that I'm hoping that the shit storm we're headed into will make industrial imperial conquest a thing of the past. 

Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline luciddreams

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Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2015, 03:03:13 PM »
Quote



RE said, Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.


Lucid said, The Chinese are patient.  It won't surprise me if that polarity gets reversed and we become the slaves.  I'm hoping that my bamboo nursery and bamboo culture will convince them that I and mine are worth keeping around.  However, before that I'm hoping that the shit storm we're headed into will make industrial imperial conquest a thing of the past. 



So before this gets completely out of hand I'd like to add that I was being facetious...that's basically my humor, but I have a hard time getting humor sometimes...unless it's stand up and I know it's supposed to be funny.  My point, I suppose, is that I just want to make clear that I'm not a proponent for the Chinese taking over my country.  It just wouldn't surprise me if one day there are Chinese tanks rollin' down the road I live on enforcing a curfew.  I'm hoping the energy situation doesn't allow for that...for any tanks of any origin.  I would not lie down and take that peacefully. 

So I think your post was funny Agelbert.  I'm just not sure how.  Maybe you can help me understand.   :icon_scratch:

 

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