AuthorTopic: The Official Refugee Thread  (Read 124424 times)

Offline RE

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French police come under fire in Paris; three reported shot
« Reply #750 on: April 20, 2017, 02:51:15 PM »
This should improve Marine Le Pen's numbers.

RE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/french-police-come-under-fire-in-paris-two-reported-shot/2017/04/20/fc1f254c-25ff-11e7-bb9d-8cd6118e1409_story.html

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French police come under fire in Paris; three reported shot
Champs Elysees shut after shooting incident

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By James McAuley and William Branigin April 20 at 4:41 PM

PARIS — A gunman opened fire on French police Thursday on a renowned Paris boulevard, killing one and wounding two others before being fatally shot himself in an incident that shook France just three days before a crucial election.

The French Interior Ministry, confirming the shooting, said two police officers were “seriously wounded” and that security forces gunned down the attacker. The ministry said the person fired on a police car.

A spokeswoman for the Paris police, Johanna Primevert, said the gunman attacked police guarding an area near the Franklin Roosevelt metro station Thursday night at the center of the heavily traveled Champs-Élysées avenue, the Associated Press reported.

The Reuters news agency later reported a second police officer died of his wounds.

There was no immediate indication of a possible motive for the attack, nor any immediate claim of responsibility. But French police said they have opened a terrorism investigation in the case.

The incident occurred three days before France holds the first round of a presidential election. The country has been hit by a deadly wave of terrorist violence in the last two years that has claimed the lives of at least 230 people, with hundreds more injured.

[45 years of terrorist attacks in Europe, visualized]

The shooting — on the most famous boulevard in the French capital, always crowded with tourists and commuters — came just two days after authorities arrested two men in the southern city of Marseille on suspicion of plotting what Paris prosecutors described as an “imminent” and “violent” attack. Police discovered an Islamic State flag and three kilograms of explosives in one of their homes.

The Islamic State has claimed responsibility for previous attacks in France, including a coordinated November 2015 terrorist assault on multiple targets in Paris that left 130 people dead and more than 360 wounded.

After that attack and others in the last two years — many perpetrated by Islamic State militants or those claiming to be inspired by the extremist group — terrorism and national security remain crucial issues in the most contentious election France has seen in decades.
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The leader of the far-right National Front party, Marine Le Pen, has campaigned heavily on an anti-immigrant platform and what she has couched as the need to defend France from “Islamist globalization.” In the final days of the campaign, she said she would halt immigration altogether if elected president.

[Growing anti-Muslim rhetoric permeates French presidential election campaign]
What the scene looks like in Paris after a shooting near the Champs-Elysees
View Photos
Police officers reported shot in Paris

The shooting occurred in the middle of a televised campaign event, when each of the 11 current candidates was given 15 minutes to sell voters on their respective platforms.

The Paris police department promptly shut down the boulevard and advised pedestrians and commuters to avoid the Champs-Élysées, citing an ongoing operation.

At least three metro stations were closed, the Interior Ministry said.

There was no immediate information on the identities of the attacker or the policemen who were shot.

French Interior Ministry spokesman Pierre-Henry Brandet said police officers were deliberately targeted but that it was too early to say what the motive was, Reuters reported. The news agency said police sources had said earlier that the shooting could have stemmed from an attempted armed robbery.

In Washington, President Trump said during a news conference with the visiting Italian prime minister that the Paris shooting “looks like another terrorist attack,” and he offered s condolences to France.

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According to Christophe Crépin, a spokesman for the UNSA Police Union, at least two men drove onto the Champs-Elysée and targeted officers patrolling near a Marks and Spencer store on the corner of the busy avenue.

Crépin said the whereabouts of the second alleged gunman were not yet known.

Branigin reported from Washington.

Read more:

Here are the 78 terrorist attacks the White House says were largely underreported

Europe may face a grim future with terrorism as a fact of life

How terrorism in the West compares to terrorism everywhere else

Today’s coverage from Post correspondents around the world

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Offline RE

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The Spectrum of Suffering: Why Europe is unable to handle its refugee crisis
« Reply #751 on: April 30, 2017, 12:29:40 AM »
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2015/09/migrant_crisis_in_europe_the_refugee_convention_of_1951_and_why_the_eu_can.html

The Spectrum of Suffering

Why Europe is unable to handle its refugee crisis.
By Eric Posner


Europe lacks a consistent plan for its refugee crisis. Here, military forces attempt to prevent people from entering the Eurotunnel terminal in Calais, France, July 30, 2015.

Photo by Rob Stothard/Getty Images

The refugees pouring into Europe are no threat to the people who live there, but they do threaten something of considerable importance—the European Idea. This is the idea that neighboring countries can coexist peacefully within political structures that transcend national boundaries. For many decades, the Europeans held out their political system as a model for the world to follow. If they could yield their national sovereignty to transnational courts and administrative bodies, why couldn’t the rest of us? The refugee crisis, coming on the heels of the Greek debt crisis, exposes new cracks in this model and teaches important lessons about the limits of international cooperation.

It is tempting to think that the Europeans are helpless victims of the tide of humanity coming from the south. Syrians, Iraqis, and others from North Africa and the Middle East are fleeing the violence and turmoil in their lives. Europe could not turn them back without violating its moral and legal commitments, but it cannot handle such vast quantities of people. The result: bodies washed up on the beach, chaos in the Keleti train station in Budapest, Hungary, tearful families begging for help from hostile police, huddled masses in public parks and on the streets. But the Europeans are largely at fault—for being too tough in some ways, not tough enough in other ways, and, ultimately, setting up a political system that could not handle major crises.

Huge population movements have been a feature of human existence for millennia. They have always been caused by chaos in one area—war, drought, economic collapse—and have nearly always caused chaos in the areas into which the populations migrate, where overcrowding and cultural differences can lead to political instability. Indeed, displacement of populations is one of the contributing factors to chaos in the Middle East and Africa today.

Throughout most of the rest of the world, however, the state system put an end to uncontrolled migration. Governments became powerful enough to control although not completely halt population movements. The principle of sovereignty provided the legal basis for keeping foreigners out. Control of the border—with guards, walls, or machine guns—is an essential feature of the modern nation state.

However, border controls do not always work. People will scale fences or take rickety boats to foreign shores unless governments use force to repel them, and mass violence against innocent people is morally reprehensible and politically unsustainable.

Most population movements can be handled in a (relatively) humane way. Small numbers of refugees can be absorbed into the local population. Large numbers of refugees can be placed in camps and given basic humanitarian assistance until it is safe to return home. When countries cooperate with one another, burdens can be shared. People who migrate for economic reasons, however, are forced to leave.

This understanding was embodied in the Refugee Convention of 1951. The convention made a key distinction between “refugees”—people fleeing persecution on grounds of race, religion, nationality, and related affiliations—and economic migrants, who enter other countries seeking better jobs. When foreigners enter a country and claim refugee status, the country must hold hearings to determine the accuracy of the claims and allow the people to stay if government officials determine that they are refugees. The convention thus recognizes that countries owe humanitarian obligations to foreigners in desperate circumstances but permits them to protect their populations from excessive migration.

However, the distinction between refugees and economic migrants has turned out to be hard to sustain. It reflects a cold-war sensibility that saw dissent from totalitarianism in the Soviet Union and elsewhere as a heroic stance, deserving of support from the West and well worth exploiting for its propaganda value. Today, it is hard to understand why victims of political persecution deserve more help than victims of natural disasters who may starve if they do not cross the border. People disagree about whether victims of civil war should be put in one category or the other. Suffering ranges across a spectrum; it is not binary. But if simply being a poor person living amid political turmoil rendered one eligible for refugee status, then Western countries would need to accept not thousands of refugees but hundreds of millions, which is impossible. So where does one draw the line?

This problem can be seen in Europe. Many migrants have landed in Greece, a peaceful and politically stable but economically distressed country, where they would not be persecuted but would be condemned to hardscrabble lives. Others entered Europe via Turkey, another stable country where they are permitted to live in refugee camps, free of war and persecution. But refugees do not want to stay in Greece or Turkey. The chaos in Hungary is occurring because the migrants in Greece seek passage to Germany, the richest country in Europe, where they can find well-paying jobs. So are they political refugees or economic migrants? A little bit of both.

Thus, from a humanitarian standpoint, the question is not political versus economic but where to draw the line along the spectrum of suffering. And because suffering is ubiquitous throughout the developing world while the rich world is not willing to let everyone in, the line-drawing will be an ugly process of shutting deserving people out. The international system has depended on natural barriers—mountains, oceans—to keep people from migrating except when they are exceptionally desperate (or wealthy enough to pay smugglers). The people who are most deserving of sympathy are not those who have made it to Europe but those who are left behind in Syria, Iraq, and Libya, where they continue to struggle for survival.

The ugliness of the system is on display when desperation forces larger numbers to migrate than countries are willing to accept. In the 1980s and 1990s, the United States handled a refugee crisis from Haiti by intercepting boats outside American territorial waters and turning them back. Thousands of refugees were warehoused in Guantanamo Bay. Australia, a rich country in a poor neighborhood, opened detention centers offshore in places like Nauru—an independent island nation—where it placed asylum seekers while their applications were evaluated. While Australia has been criticized for this policy and conditions in its detention centers leave much to be desired, this is a predictable and probably necessary response to the problem of excessive migration. Most refugees end up in vast camps in not-so-nice countries like Pakistan, Iran, Jordan, and Chad, funded by Western countries glad to keep the refugees far away.

So the system works only as long as the number of refugees can be kept to levels that the populations of host countries can tolerate. It’s easy to say that people should be more tolerant of foreigners and should welcome desperate migrants—and to complain that Europeans are selfish. One can’t help but cringe when Eastern European countries say that they will welcome Christians and not Muslims. And the migrants who have already arrived—a few hundred thousand—could be easily absorbed into the European Union’s huge population of 500 million. The problem is that if Europe welcomes all the migrants who have already arrived, then they will keep coming, with no end in sight. In 2014, 280,000 migrants applied for asylum in Europe. So far this year, another 350,000 migrants have entered the continent. As many as 4 million Syrians are refugees in Turkey and countries in North Africa, and another 16 million remain at home. No doubt a large fraction of these people are eager to follow their co-nationals to Germany, a country with a population of 80 million.

Germany has demonstrated moral leadership by offering to accept additional migrants and giving financial assistance to Greece. But this may turn out to be a serious error. People back in Syria, Iraq, Eritrea, and elsewhere may now believe that they can take refuge in Germany, and so we can expect even larger numbers of people overwhelming the border countries like Greece and the transit countries like Hungary and even more people drowning in the Mediterranean as they make their way north. Indeed, the next wave of migration—from people in war-torn countries other than Syria who have learned of Germany’s generosity—has already begun. Before long, Germany itself could face an impossible logistical problem.

The only solution is to follow the example of the United States and Australia and block migration at sea; increase funding for camps inside and outside of Europe where refugees receive food, housing, and medical care but are not allowed to take jobs; and share the burdens fairly among European nations. (Countries outside Europe should help out as well.) But Europe has failed to adopt this solution. The reason goes back to its hybrid political structure—a collection of states with no functioning pan-European government. Because of the elimination of border controls between European countries, a country that allows refugees to enter its territory knows that they may end up in some other country, which will be responsible for caring for them. Because European government structures are weak, there is no way to compel the peripheral countries to strengthen their borders or fairly share the cost of compensating them for doing so. The European governments can move forward only by agreeing on a plan, but everyone is holding out for a better deal. This is the source of the current impasse and the resulting chaos.

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The photo kind of makes the case why calling them all "refugees" is tenuous.  Trying to get from France to the UK...that's not really a "refugee" crossing.  More...

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The fumbling of the refugee crisis echoes the Greek debt crisis to a striking degree. In both cases, borders between countries were eliminated—financial borders in the Eurozone, physical borders under the Schengen Agreement—which created great benefits within Europe as capital and people could move around more easily. But in both cases, the necessary regulatory structures were not put in place—a European-wide bank regulator, a European-wide homeland security system—because of residual worries about sacrificing sovereignty to a faceless transnational bureaucracy. With no agency in place when the crisis struck, countries had to agree on ad hoc responses that contended poorly with a similar moral hazard problem: A bailout of Greece could encourage profligacy in other countries; refuge for migrants will just encourage further migration. Unable to solve their problems either by centralizing into a U.S.-style federation or dividing back into independent states, the continent has entered a permanent state of crisis.
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The Tragedy of Forced Displacement
« Reply #752 on: May 21, 2017, 03:32:46 PM »
http://dissidentvoice.org/2017/05/the-tragedy-of-forced-displacement/

The Tragedy of Forced Displacement


by Graham Peebles / May 19th, 2017

It constitutes the greatest humanitarian crisis since the Second World War affecting huge numbers of people and demanding all that is best in us. Yet instead of compassion, understanding and unity, all too often intolerance, ignorance and suspicion characterise the response to the needs of refugees and migrants.

There are now unprecedented numbers of displaced people in our world, with children making up a disproportionate percentage of the total. Figures from UNHCR are detailed and shocking and demand our attention: At 65.3 million, “the global population of forcibly displaced people today is larger than the entire population of the UK.” Of this total, almost 25 million are refugees (half are children, many of them unaccompanied) – 3.2 million of whom are in developed countries awaiting asylum decisions. The rest, 41 million, are displaced within their own countries, Syria, Colombia, Yemen and Iraq making up the lion’s share.

The movement of large groups of people is most commonly the result of wars of one kind or another. This is reflected in the fact that over half the world’s refugees come from just three countries: Syria (4.9 million), Afghanistan (2.7 million) and Somalia (1.1 million). People are also fleeing conflicts in Yemen, Libya, Nigeria and Sudan, and the UN recognises a further five armed conflicts in Africa alone – this does not include Ethiopia, where there is civil unrest, or Eritrea. Add to this list nations ruled by repressive regimes, other countries where economic opportunities are scarce and the magnitude of the migrant crisis begins to surface. It’s worth noting that the overwhelming majority of refugees (people fleeing violence), 90%, are not crowding the cities of industrialised nations, as some duplicitous politicians infer,.  They are in refugee camps in poor countries close to their own, living uncomfortable lives of uncertainty and misery.

Mass Vulnerability

Most people don’t leave their homeland because they want too. They move because either their town or city is a war zone; they are being persecuted and are in danger; or they cannot find work to support themselves. Given the same circumstances wouldn’t we do the same? And yet in countries throughout the world migrants have become the scapegoat for all manner of social-economic ills. Often publicly vilified and treated like criminals by heavy-handed officials and security personnel, herded into holding camps, processing units and detention centres – which in many cases are worse than prison. ‘Migrant’ in some bigoted quarters has become a dirty word, synonymous with criminality and extremism. Described as a potential threat to ‘national security’ or as ‘Islamic terrorists’ by those on the very fringes of sanity – flag-waving fanatics who call themselves politicians, but employ the rhetoric of intolerance and fear to ignite tribal instincts that should have been jettisoned in favour of mutual understanding, tolerance and universal brotherhood decades ago.

Migrants are not criminals. They are human beings trying to survive in a hostile, unjust world: A world in which violent conflicts – that lead to the mass movement of people ­– are engineered by the powerful to sustain an insatiable arms industry (worth $1.7 trillion or 3% of global GDP) and maintain geo-political control. A world based on wrong conclusions, where the commercialisation of all areas of life has lead to the commodification of everything, including persons – including children. In this world of money and fear the most vulnerable are traded and sold; vulnerability grows out of poverty, and allows for exploitation: there are few human beings more vulnerable and defenceless than migrants, particularly migrant children.

For most people fleeing conflict or economic hardship in the Middle East and Africa (North and Sub-Saharan) the primary destination is Europe. In 2016, 363,348 people arrived at one or another Mediterranean port, roughly a third being children, 90% of whom were unaccompanied. Most people cross the sea to Italy or Greece, departing from Libya, of whom 5,078 are estimated to have drowned making the 300-mile crossing during 2016 alone.

Since the ill-judged US-led assault on Libya in 2011, the country has become a chaotic dysfunctional state racked with terrorism, political instability and crime. In this lawless land Human Rights Watch (HRW) records that hundreds of thousands of innocent migrants (including children), experience torture, sexual assault and forced labour at the hands of “prison guards, members of the Coast Guard forces and smugglers.” Recent investigations by the International Organisation for Migration (IOM) found that migrants in Libya are being openly bought and sold as slaves by Libyans; young men from poor families, mainly from Nigeria, Ghana, Gambia and Senegal, are targeted. They pay traffickers hundreds of US$ to get them to Libya, and once they arrive, IOM reports, they are handed over to smugglers for sale. In other cases migrant boys/men are kidnapped, held for ransom and then auctioned off to the highest bidder. Women and girls are “bought by private [Libyan] individuals and brought to homes where they were [are] forced to be sex slaves.” It’s thought that up to 800,000 migrants are currently congregated in Libya.

When those who survive the horrors of Libya make it to Europe, the nightmare for some is far from over. Save the Children reports that thousands of migrants are trafficked in Europe every year; the majority are women/girls, mainly from Nigeria and Romania, who are forced into prostitution, “made to rent sidewalk space to sell sex, ”amid voodoo rituals and violent threats against their families back home. Some are as young as 13. Boys are also victims: “social networking sites like Facebook” are used “to lure boys with the promise of a better life.” The reality is slave labour in Rome or Milan. As the number of unaccompanied children arriving on Europe’s shores doubles year on year, the risks of exploitation and human suffering increase. Europol believes as many as 10,000 “unaccompanied child refugees have gone missing after arriving in Europe.”

Victims of Circumstance

The numbers are huge and the demands on countries to meet the needs of millions of displaced people are intense and complex. But as Pope Francis, who is increasingly the voice of reason and common sense, rightly stated, “we must not be taken aback by their numbers, but rather view them as persons, seeing their faces and listening to their stories, trying to respond as best we can to their situation…in a way which is always humane, just and fraternal. We need to avoid a common temptation nowadays: to discard whatever proves troublesome.”

When migrants arrive at their destination, knowing nobody, not speaking the language and with no understanding of the culture, they are faced with the mammoth task of re-building their lives. All depends on the support and welcome offered. In the US, despite Trump’s antagonistic rhetoric, the attitude amongst most Americans is largely positive. According to a Pew research survey, 63% of US adults think immigrants strengthen the country, with only 27% believing migrants take jobs, housing and health care. In Europe however, the picture was less encouraging; in eight out of 10 European nations surveyed 50% or more of adults questioned said they thought refugees increased the likelihood of terrorism, and in none of the 10 countries did a majority believe diversity was positive.

It is essential, and morally just, that all displaced people should be treated kindly, shown understanding and trust. Destination countries should be welcoming, Government policies supportive and inclusive, refugees integrated – for as Pope Francis said, “a refugee must not only be welcomed, but also integrated…and if a country is only able to integrate 20, let’s say, then it should only accept that many. If another is able to do more, let them do more.”

Displaced people (refugees or economic migrants) sitting in a refugee camp or sheltering in an abandoned building, waiting to hear the result of an asylum application or in transit somewhere in the world, are victims of circumstance. They are not the ones orchestrating or carrying out the violent conflicts around the world, nor are they responsible for the economic conditions in their native countries. They are victims of a divided world, fragmented by religion, ethnicity, ideology and economics; and with the intensification of these causes the effects increase – displacement of people is one such effect.

The solutions to this major crisis, and indeed many of our problems, would naturally flow from the recognition of the fact that we are brothers and sisters of one humanity. In such an understanding, hostile divisions based on nationalism and ethnicity begin to fade, whilst the diversity of differing views and cultural traditions enriches and adds to the tapestry of society. This single shift in thinking – simple yet enormous – would facilitate changes in all areas of society; sharing, co-operation and tolerance of others would begin to shape the socio-economic systems, totally changing their nature, allowing social justice to develop, trust to grow and peace to gently settle upon our troubled world.

Graham Peebles is a freelance writer. He can be reached at: graham@thecreatetrust.org. Read other articles by Graham, or visit Graham's website.
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Online Eddie

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Re: The Tragedy of Forced Displacement
« Reply #753 on: May 21, 2017, 03:57:43 PM »

Migrants are not criminals. They are human beings trying to survive in a hostile, unjust world.
.


Certainly not all migrants are criminals, but only a compleat idiot can fail to realize that refugee camps are desperate places where crimes abound within, and where crimes in other places are planned, and where generations of petty criminals get their start and their training. I wondered how many criminals DO turn out to be migrants. Other people have asked this question from various authorities. Here is a request from someone in the UK, and the government response.   


Percentage of Foreign Nationals in UK Prisons
Chris Casselden made this Freedom of Information request to Home Office
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The request was successful.

Chris Casselden 10 April 2009
Unknown
Dear Sir or Madam,
Please pass this to the person responsible for FOI requests.
I would like disclosed, as a percentage of the total Prison population, the number of Foreign Nationals presently residing in UK Prisons and what plans are in place to repatriate them to their country of origin on or before completion of their sentences.
Yours faithfully,
Chris Casselden


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#outgoing-18415
Link to this
Chris Casselden 14 May 2009
Unknown
Dear Sir or Madam,

I refer to my FOI request of 10 April, to which you have failed to respond within the stipulated 20 Working days and are in breach of the terms of the Act.

Please deal with this matter immediately.

Yours sincerely,

Chris Casselden


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#outgoing-21585
Link to this
CTS Public enquiry account 1, Home Office 14 May 2009
Mr Casselden

Can you please attach your previous e-mail? If it was
Immigration-related it would have been sent to the UK Borders Agency for
action so we would like to check a copy for our records.

Many thanks
CM
Home Office
Direct Communications Unit

show quoted sections


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#incoming-27059
Link to this
Chris Casselden 19 December 2009
Unknown
Dear CTS Public enquiry account 1,

I refer to my FOI letter of 10 April 2009 and reminder of 14 May 2009

You are now in serious breach of the Act and I insist you respond forthwith as dictated by Law.

Yours sincerely,

Chris Casselden


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#outgoing-46470
Link to this
Freedom Of Information Team ( IND ), Home Office 23 December 2009
Dear Mr Casselden,

Thank you for your Email of the 19/12/09.

Please can you forward details of your original requests as we do not
appear to have a record of them

Regards

Freedom of Information Team

UKBA

show quoted sections

Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#incoming-61656
Link to this
Chris Casselden 30 December 2009
Unknown
Dear Freedom Of Information Team ( IND ),

This is now the SECOND time you have requested that this request be repeated.

The text of the original request in included below. You will note that this is now more that 8 MONTHS old. I shall expect a complete response within 10 days or further action will be taken regarding this gross dereliction of your duties under the Act.

"10 April 2009

Dear Sir or Madam,
Please pass this to the person responsible for FOI requests.
I would like disclosed, as a percentage of the total Prison population, the number of Foreign Nationals presently residing in UK Prisons and what plans are in place to repatriate them to their country of origin on or before completion of their sentences.
Yours faithfully,
Chris Casselden"

Yours sincerely,

Chris Casselden


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#outgoing-47193
Link to this
Freedom Of Information Team \( IND \), Home Office 31 December 2009
Dear Mr Casselden,
Thank you for your request and we apologise for the delay in responding
to you. It has now been recorded and is being dealt with under the
Freedom of Information Act. We will respond to you as quickly as we can.
Regards

UK Border Agency
Freedom of Information Team

show quoted sections


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#incoming-62174
Link to this
Chris Casselden 22 January 2010
Unknown
Dear Home Office,

Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.

I am writing to request an internal review of Home Office's handling of my FOI request 'Percentage of Foreign Nationals in UK Prisons'.

The original request is some 9 months old now. The only two responses have been to ask for the query to be resubmitted which has been done, twice.

A proper response should, by law, have been provided by now. This prevarication has to stop and the information requested released without further delay and obfuscation.

A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pe...

Yours faithfully,

Chris Casselden


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#outgoing-50764
Link to this
Jaye Vanessa, Home Office 4 March 2010
1 Attachment
Attachment
FOI 13661 signed response.doc
173K Download View as HTML

Dear Mr Casselden

Please find the attached letter in response to your Freedom of Information
request. Please accept our apologies for the delay.

Briefing and Correspondence Team

Criminal Casework Directorate

UK Border Agency

show quoted sections

Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#incoming-73794
Link to this
Jaye Vanessa, Home Office 4 March 2010
The sender would like to recall the message, " FOI request".

show quoted sections

Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals#incoming-73796
Link to this
CCD Briefing & Correspondence Team, Home Office 4 March 2010
1 Attachment
Attachment
FOI 13661 signed response.doc
173K Download View as HTML

Dear Mr Casselden

Please find the attached letter in response to your Freedom of Information
request. Please accept our apologies for the delay.

Briefing and Correspondence Team

Criminal Casework Directorate

UK Border Agency

show quoted sections

Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or
recorded for legal purposes.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/percentage_of_foreign_nationals

If there was any kind of real response in all of that circular exchange, I never could find it.

The truth is that the UK ,France, Germany, and the Nordic countries are desperately trying to avoid telling their citizens how much of their crime is committed by migrants. And if it weren't much, I think they'd be happy to disclose that, but they do not.





What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: The Tragedy of Forced Displacement
« Reply #754 on: May 21, 2017, 04:07:55 PM »

Migrants are not criminals. They are human beings trying to survive in a hostile, unjust world.
.


Certainly not all migrants are criminals, but only a compleat idiot can fail to realize that refugee camps are desperate places where crimes abound within, and where crimes in other places are planned, and where generations of petty criminals get their start and their training. I wondered how many criminals DO turn out to be migrants. Other people have asked this question from various authorities. Here is a request from someone in the UK, and the government response.   


If there was any kind of real response in all of that circular exchange, I never could find it.

The truth is that the UK ,France, Germany, and the Nordic countries are desperately trying to avoid telling their citizens how much of their crime is committed by migrants. And if it weren't much, I think they'd be happy to disclose that, but they do not.


It's not because they are Refugees that you have a large percentage of criminals, it's because they are POOR people.  Crime rates are always higher in poor neighborhoods, even if your poor people are homegrown locally.

All you need to do to get rid of the crime is take away all the perks the rich people have, and level them down to the same economic condition as the poor people.  Then nobody has a reason to steal from anyone else, since nobody has more than anyone else to steal!

Cousin Trotsky has spoken.  ;D

Indiana Trotsky RE

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Texas Pols Slug it Out over the Wetback Issue
« Reply #755 on: May 29, 2017, 10:28:59 PM »
There is no comedy better than TX Political Comedy.  :icon_mrgreen:

OK, to be honest, no punches actually got thrown.  The title here was clickbait.  ;D  Tempers are definitely getting hot though!

RE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/29/a-texas-republican-called-ice-on-protesters-then-lawmakers-started-to-scuffle/?utm_term=.2dcb88ada49b

A Texas Republican called ICE on protesters. Then lawmakers started to scuffle.
By Peter W. Stevenson May 29 at 5:20 PM
Play Video 0:55

Texas state lawmakers get into scuffle on House floor

Texas state lawmakers got into a scuffle on May 29 on the House floor in Austin amid protests over immigration. (Nar Dorrycott)

Lawmakers scuffled on the floor of the Texas House of Representatives on Monday after a Dallas-area Republican told Democrats that he called Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers on protesters in the House gallery.

“We were just on the floor talking about the SB4 protests, and [state Rep.] Matt Rinaldi came up to us and made it a point to say, ‘I called (ICE) on all of them,’ ” state Rep. Philip Cortez (D) said. “And this is completely unacceptable. We will not be intimidated. We will not be disrespected.”

The protesters were apparently chanting and waving signs against Senate Bill 4, the controversial Texas legislation that Gov. Greg Abbott (R) signed into law this month. It bans sanctuary cities, allows police to question anyone they detain about their immigration status, and compels local officials to comply with federal requests to detain individuals in state and local law enforcement facilities. The law was passed amid a national conversation about immigration enforcement priorities and promises from the Trump administration to aggressively pursue and deport undocumented immigrants.

Signing SB4 into law was seen as a big victory for Texas Republicans, who had tried unsuccessfully to pass a ban on sanctuary cities in each legislative session since 2011. Texas Democrats reacted to the bill’s passage with alarm; one lawmaker went on a hunger strike.

Video of the scuffle shows lawmakers pushing one another, yelling and gesticulating. Later, Democrats said, Rinaldi repeatedly got in their faces and cursed at them.

Afterward, Democrats held a news conference, furious at what they called “disrespect.”
Play Video 2:13
Texas Democrats: Republican legislator said he called ICE on protesters
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Texas Democrats held a news conference after legislators scuffled on the floor of the Texas House of Representatives on May 29 in Austin. (Todd Wiseman/The Texas Tribune)

“He saw the crowd, and he saw illegals,” state Rep. Ramon Romero Jr. said. “He saw people that, whether he likes to accept it or not, in his heart, he has hate for those people, and he wants to see them gone. He wants to see them gone so much, to the point that he called ICE.”

At one point, some of the language between the two sides apparently turned violent.

“There was a threat made from Representative Rinaldi to put a bullet in one of my colleagues’ heads,” state Rep. Justin Rodriguez said during the news conference. “That kind of threatening language, he needs to be called out and held accountable for.”

But Rinaldi said the threat went the other way — that state Rep. Poncho Nevárez (D) “threatened my life on the House floor.”

“I called ICE on several illegal immigrants who held signs in the gallery that said, ‘I am an illegal immigrant and here to stay,’ ” he said in a statement after the incident. Rinaldi went on to detail purported threats against him from Democratic lawmakers, saying he was assaulted and had sought the protection of law enforcement officials.

Rinaldi is reportedly under the protection of the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Without audio of the exchange on the Texas House floor, it’s impossible to say who threatened whom. But scuffles in the legislature show how the issue of immigration enforcement can stir passions on both sides.

Rinaldi’s decision to call ICE agents fits in with Texas Republicans’ main argument on immigration: that laws on the books should be enforced more strictly, and undocumented immigrants should be processed for deportation. Democrats say Rinaldi crossed a huge line, accusing him of profiling Hispanics in the House gallery.

And the fight over sanctuary cities isn’t over. In April, a federal judge said President Trump’s executive order on sanctuary cities is unconstitutional, and a barrage of legal challenges to the new Texas law is expected soon.
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Nigel Farage wants Muslim Internment Camps
« Reply #756 on: June 05, 2017, 03:13:15 AM »
A few more terrorist "incidents", he'll probably get them too.

RE

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/91AvxCANYUk" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/91AvxCANYUk</a>

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/calls-for-internment-will-grow-fox-contributor-linked-to-russia-scandal-suggests-camps-for-british-muslims/

‘Calls for internment will grow’: Fox contributor linked to Russia scandal suggests camps for British Muslims

David Edwards
04 Jun 2017 at 09:38 ET                   
Nigel Farage appears on 'Fox & Friends' !

Fox News contributor Nigel Farage, a former British politician who campaigned for Brexit, suggested on Sunday that Muslims in Britain could be put into internment camps because of terrorist attacks in Britain.

During an interview on Fox & Friends, host Pete Hegseth asked Farage “how the borderless world that London lived in for so long — led by globalists — contributes to the ability for our enemy to infiltrate us and attack us.”

“A lot of people have abused the word refugee,” Farage complained. “The British government, when they were pushed by people like me a few years ago, said they would use the power to stop people who have fought, for example, in Syria from coming back into our country. Over 400 known jidhadi fighters from Syria have come back into Britain and we’ve only stopped one.”

“I hope that [British Prime Minister] Teresa May goes a lot further,” he continued, “and says that not one person who has fought in Syria will be let back into our country.”

According to Farage, a growing number of Britons now supporting putting Muslims in internment camps.
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“This is now the third terrorist incident that has happened in my country in the space of as many months,” he explained. “And the mood that I get now is we want some real action. We don’t just want speeches.”

“And if there is not action, the calls for internment will grow,” Farage added. “We have 3,000 people on sort of a known terrorist list. And we’re watching their actions. But a further 20,000 people who are persons of interests, namely they’re linked by some way to extremist organizations. Unless we see the public getting tough, you will see public calls for those 3,000 to be arrested.”

Farage admitted that the move “might alienate decent fair-minded Muslims.”

Later in the morning, Daily Mail columnist Katie Hopkins also told Fox & Friends that “we do need interment camps.”
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According to The Guardian, the FBI considers Farage as a “person of interest” in the investigation into President Donald Trump 2016 campaign and the Russian effort to influence the U.S. election.
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Re: The Official Refugee Thread
« Reply #757 on: July 08, 2017, 09:07:27 PM »
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-08/europes-liberal-elite-outraged-after-renzi-says-italy-has-no-moral-duty-take-migrant
Europe's Liberal Elite Outraged After Renzi Says Italy Has "No Moral Duty To Take In Migrants"
Tyler Durden
Jul 8, 2017

The liberal facade behind Europe's grand refugee acceptance experiment took a big hit on Friday, when Italy's Former Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, and head of the ruling Democratic Party, said his country does not have "any moral duty to take in migrants", sharply toughening his stance over surging numbers of asylum seekers.  His U-Turn follows that of Angela Merkel, who infamously accepted nearly 1 million mostly Syrian refugees in 2015, only to see a surge in terrorist attacks across Germany and Europe, and a plunge in her popularity as a result of an angry social backlash, prompting her to quietly but forcefully end Germany's "open door" policy.

Now it's Italy turn.

Recall that last week we discussed that with refugees arrivals in Italy up 20% over the same period last year, Rome threatened to close its ports to privately-funded aid boats - many of which are rumored to belong to Soros-linked organizations, or insist that funding be cut to EU countries which fail to help. Italy's interior minister Marco Minniti was angry: "They are sailing under the flags of various European countries. If the only ports where refugees are taken to are Italian, something is not working. This is the heart of the question."

One can see why Italy may be angry: with the Balkan corridor closed, Italy has emerged as the only port of entry into Europe. More than 600,000 migrants have reached Italy over the past four years, the vast majority arriving by boat from Libya. About 85,000 have come ashore this year alone, accounting for the vast majority of European migrant arrivals.

And Just like in Germany two years ago, the popular reaction is one of growing anger - especially since migrants don't get to vote. However, the question has emerged: how does a "moral", liberal Europe square up to what is a growing undercurrent of resentment toward migrants, something traditionally associated with various loathed (by the establishment) populist parties? After all, if the same establishment admitted that what the "populists" offer is the right course of action, then a political crisis would ensue.

That did not stop Italy's former PM Matteo Renzi from saying that "we need to free ourselves from a sense of guilt. We do not have the moral duty to welcome into Italy people who are worse off than ourselves," the Democratic Party leader wrote in new book, excerpts of which were released ahead of publication on the PD website.

"There has to be a fixed number of arrivals," he said, adding that Italy should help migrants in their home countries, and sounding suspiciously close like Italy's anti-immigrant parties.

Sure enough, underscoring the sensitivity of the issue - and just how hypocritical Europe's liberal crown is - Renzi's comments were swiftly removed from the website, but not before they had generated a backlash among some PD supporters, and glee in the right-wing camp.

As Reuters reports, the biggest winner from Renzi's unexpected moments of honesty, was Matteo Salvini, leader of the anti-immigrant Northern League party, who posted the deleted text on his own Twitter account. "Thanks for all the work. We will take it," Salvini wrote. "They (the PD) chatter and get embarrassed about it, while we can't wait to actually do it."

Meanwhile, Italy has found itself boxed in, with Brussels refusing to change its migrant policies even as rising popular anger means growing support for anti-establishment parties.

The upsurge in new arrivals, most of them from sub-Saharan Africa, has unsettled the Italian government, which has urged greater help from European allies in resettling the refugees.  Its requests have fallen largely on deaf ears and Renzi warned on Friday that Rome would look to curb funding to EU nations that had refused to offer help.

"They are shutting their doors. We will block their funds," he said, sounding suspiciously like Turkey's Erdogan who has so far prevented a new refugee crisis in Europe by gating some 2 million migrants inside Turkey's borders.

Making matters worse, Italy's migrant crisis is pushing the balance of power away from establishment parties: last month, Renzi's PD party fared badly in local elections, losing control of 30 municipalities, including the traditional leftist stronghold of Genoa in northern Italy, with the migrant crisis increasingly weighing on the government.

Meanwhile, adding insult and injury to hypocrisy, Former European Commissioner for humanitarian affairs, Emma Bonino, caused embarrassment in PD ranks this week when she said that Renzi's government had requested in 2014 that all the migrants leaving Libya be brought to Italy.  "At the beginning, we didn't realize that this was a structural problem and not a passing phase. We shot ourselves in the foot," said Bonino, a former Italian foreign minister. Oops.

Renzi of course denied her assertion on Friday, but said that in future, Italy should do more to encourage migrants to stay at home and develop their own economies.

"We need to escape from our 'do gooder' mentality," Renzi said.

To which we can only add that we are almost amazed at the speed with which Renzi, Merkel, and so much of Europe's "do gooder" liberal elite flipped its outlook on the idealistic act of accepting "people who are worse off than ourselves" the second said act starting having negative consequences on Renzi, Merkel and Europe's "do gooder" liberal slite. We would almost call this reversal glaringly hypocritical, but we are confident readers can make up their own minds.
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Feds appeal judge’s travel ban ruling to Supreme Court
« Reply #758 on: July 16, 2017, 02:20:59 AM »
Will Gorsuch be Trumpovetsky's lapdog and overturn the ban on the travel ban from the lower court?

RE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/feds-appeal-judges-travel-ban-ruling-to-supreme-court/2017/07/15/fb6cdf2a-69cc-11e7-94ab-5b1f0ff459df_story.html?utm_term=.dd24af4c96a8

Feds appeal judge’s travel ban ruling to Supreme Court


FILE - In this July 6, 2017, file photo, Ali Said, of Somalia, center, waits at a center for refugees with his two sons in San Diego. Said, whose leg was blown off by a grenade, says he feels unbelievably lucky to be among one of the last refugees allowed into the United States before stricter rules were to kick in as part of the Trump administration’s proposed travel ban. A federal judge in Hawaii further weakened the already-diluted travel ban Thursday, July 13, 2017, by vastly expanding the list of U.S. family relationships that visitors from six Muslim-majority countries can use to get into the country. (Gregory Bull, File/Associated Press)

By Alicia A. Caldwell and Elliot Spagat | AP July 15 at 10:17 PM

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is seeking to close a legal window opened for tens of thousands of refugees to enter the United States, appealing a federal judge’s order directly to the Supreme Court.

U.S. District Judge Derrick Watson had ordered the government to allow in refugees formally working with a resettlement agency in the United States. His order also vastly expanded the list of U.S. family relationships that refugees and visitors from six Muslim-majority countries can use to get into the country, including grandparents and grandchildren.

In its appeal Friday night, the Justice Department said Watson’s interpretation of the Supreme Court’s ruling on what family relationships qualify refugees and visitors from the six Muslim-majority countries to enter the U.S. “empties the court’s decision of meaning, as it encompasses not just ‘close’ family members, but virtually all family members. Treating all of these relationships as ‘close familial relationship(s)’ reads the term ‘close’ out of the Court’s decision.”

Only the Supreme Court can decide these issues surrounding the travel ban, the Justice Department said. “Only this Court can definitively settle whether the government’s reasonable implementation is consistent with this Court’s stay,” it said.

On Saturday, the U.S. Justice Department asked the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to put Watson’s ruling on hold while the Supreme Court considers its appeal.

The long, tangled legal fight is expected to culminate with arguments before the nation’s high court in October.

Watson’s ruling could help more than 24,000 refugees already vetted and approved by the United States but barred by the 120-day freeze on refugee admissions, said Becca Heller, director of the International Refugee Assistance Project, a resettlement agency.

“Many of them had already sold all of their belongings to start their new lives in safety,” she said. “This decision gives back hope to so many who would otherwise be stranded indefinitely.”

Citing a need to review its vetting process to ensure national security, the administration capped refugee admissions at 50,000 for the 12-month period ending Sept. 30, a ceiling it hit this week.

The federal budget can accommodate up to 75,000 refugees, but admissions have slowed under Trump, and the government could hold them to a trickle, resettlement agencies say.

“Absolutely this is good news for refugees, but there’s a lot of uncertainty,” said Melanie Nezer, spokeswoman for HIAS, a resettlement agency. “It’s really going to depend on how the administration reacts to this.”

Attorney General Jeff Sessions had said the administration would ask the Supreme Court to weigh in, bypassing the San Francisco-based 9th U.S Circuit Court of Appeals, which has ruled against it in the case.

The Supreme Court allowed a scaled-back version of the travel ban to take effect last month.

“Once again, we are faced with a situation in which a single federal district court has undertaken by a nationwide injunction to micromanage decisions of the co-equal executive branch related to our national security,” Sessions said. “By this decision, the district court has improperly substituted its policy preferences for the national security judgments of the executive branch in a time of grave threats.”

The administration took a first step by filing a notice of appeal to the 9th Circuit, allowing it to use a rule to petition the high court directly. There was no timetable for the Supreme Court to act, but the administration sought quick action to clarify the court’s June opinion.

The justices now are scattered during their summer recess, so any short-term action would come in written filings.

The administration has lost most legal challenges on the travel ban, which applies to citizens of Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya, Iran and Yemen.

The Supreme Court’s ruling exempted a large swath of refugees and travelers with a “bona fide relationship” with a person or an entity in the U.S. The justices did not define those relationships but said they could include a close relative, a job offer or admission to a college or university.

The Trump administration defined the relationships as people who had a parent, spouse, fiance, son, daughter, son-in-law, daughter-in-law or sibling already in the U.S.

Watson enlarged that group to include grandparents, grandchildren, brothers-in-law, sisters-in-law, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews and cousins.

Hawaii Attorney General Douglas S. Chin, who sought the broader definition, said Thursday’s ruling “makes clear that the U.S. government may not ignore the scope of the partial travel ban as it sees fit.”

“Family members have been separated and real people have suffered enough,” Chin said.

___

Spagat reported from San Diego. Associated Press writers Julie Watson in San Diego, Jennifer Sinco Kelleher in Honolulu, Sudhin Thanawala in San Francisco and Sadie Gurman and Mark Sherman in Washington contributed to this report.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 02:23:56 AM by RE »
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Re: The Official Refugee Thread
« Reply #759 on: July 18, 2017, 05:40:57 PM »
Ready for another twist in the Donald Jr meeting affair? - Yawn.  OK, here it is, thanks to RT's amazing journalistic activity of actually asking the people involved.  THE MSM should have done this BEFORE publishing the story.

https://www.rt.com/news/396728-russian-lawyer-scandal-america/
Russian lawyer Veselnitskaya says Magnitsky Act lobbyist Browder behind Trump Jr. scandal
18 Jul, 2017

The scandal concerning the meeting between US President Donald Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr, and Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya was orchestrated by Magnitsky Act lobbyist William Browder, the lawyer told RT in an exclusive interview.

"I´m ready to clarify the situation behind this mass hysteria – but only through lawyers or testifying in the Senate," Veselnitskaya told RT.

“I can only assume that the current situation that has been heated up for ten days or so by now is a a very well-orchestrated story concocted by one particular manipulator – Mr. Browder. He is one of the greatest experts in the field of manipulating mass media,” Veselnitskaya said.

She went on to say that Browder, who is the founder and CEO of the Hermitage Capital investment company, orchestrated this whole disinformation campaign as revenge for the defeat he suffered in a US court in 2013 from a team of lawyers that included Veselnitskaya.

“I have absolutely no doubt that this whole information [campaign] is being spun, encouraged and organized by that very man as revenge for the defeat he suffered in court of the Southern State of New York in the ‘Prevezon’ company case,” she said.

"He wasn't able to convince the court with his lousy human tragedy that actually never happened, about the fate of a dead man - who he only learnt about after his death."

In 2013, Veselnitskaya was one of the lawyers who represented a Cyprus-based holding company Prevezon, owned by Russian businessman Denis Katsyv, in its defense against allegations of money laundering in a court of the Southern State of New York.

The case was settled with no admission of guilt by Prevezon.

The lawyer insisted her meeting with Trump Jr. was aimed at countering Browder’s lobbying in America and had nothing to do with the US presidential election.

“I am already tired of talking about it, but apparently nobody wants to hear. This was the story that I brought to Donald Trump Jr. I wanted him to know that Browder, a person who gave up his US citizenship, is trying to manipulate people in Congress,” she said.

“If the Senate wishes to hear the real story, I will be happy to speak up and share everything I wanted to tell Mr. Trump,” she added, referring to the alleged economic crimes that Browder is suspected of in Russia. “I will share everything I know about this situation when millions came into my country and billions left it – and nobody paid taxes.”

Veselnitskaya also said she is now concerned for the safety of her family as it's been revealed that Browder’s team spied on her family's activities even before her meeting with Trump Jr.

“It’s been revealed that Mr. Browder and his team have been gathering information about my family,” she told RT, adding, that Browder’s team “found photos of my house and sent them to Kyle Parker… a famous man in the House of Representatives, who worked for Mr Browder for many years – and not for any congressmen or congress as a whole.”

People working for Browder also shared all her personal details with representatives of the State Department, Veselnitskaya said.

Earlier, an email containing an alleged photo of the Veselnitskaya’s house was discovered in a trove of emails published online by an unidentified party. It was allegedly obtained from the account of a US State Department intelligence official tasked with monitoring Russia. The email was presumably sent by Browder to Parker on June 6, 2016.

Veselnitskaya also complained about the media attention she now endures over her meeting with Trump Jr., saying the story has been blown out of proportion. Critics of President Donald Trump see the meeting as evidence of his campaign’s collusion with the Russian government meant to undermine his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton. The Russian lawyer firmly denied speculation that the meeting was coordinated by the Russian Prosecutor General’s office.

Browder has a long history of hostility against Russia. In 2013, he was sentenced in absentia to nine years in prison for tax evasion. He was also the boss of the late Russian auditor Sergey Magnitsky.

According to the 2013 court verdict, Browder together with Magnitsky failed to pay over 552 million rubles in taxes (about US$16 million). The businessman was also found guilty of illegally buying shares in the country’s natural gas monopoly, Gazprom, costing Russia at least 3 billion rubles (US$100 million).

Magnitsky died in pre-trial custody in 2009. His death led to a strain in Russian-American relations. US authorities eventually imposed sanctions against Russian officials they deemed responsible for the auditor’s death by issuing the so-called Magnitsky list in 2012. Browder also lobbied European states to follow Washington’s lead.

The Magnitsky Act is a 2012 law that allows the United States to seize assets from a number of alleged Russian human rights abusers, as well as barring them from entering the country. Russia retaliated by prohibiting American families from adopting Russian children.
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Michigan farmer tells Oprah she can have her Cake and Eat it too!
« Reply #760 on: September 25, 2017, 06:10:31 AM »
Come the Revolution, Oprah will be roasted over an open fire.

RE

Michigan farmer tells Oprah the U.S. needs to build a wall, but still have immigrant workers


"60 Minutes" exposed the deep divisions that linger among Americans nearly a year after the presidential election. In her debut Sunday night as a "60 Minutes" special contributor, Oprah Winfrey traveled to Michigan to moderate a heated focus group. In a portion you will see only on "CBS This Morning," Winfrey spoke with one participant, Jeff VanderWerff, who said the biggest danger to America is "we've lost the ability to debate freely."

"To sit down and have intense, passionate, rational debates. And you know what? People may have feelings hurt. And we may really not like each other when we're done. But when we stop having that ability, when we lose the ability to debate ideas, the republic is over," VanderWerff told Winfrey. 

    Post-election, is the U.S. still a nation divided? Oprah Winfrey reports
    Oprah's first 60 Minutes story "felt like coming home"

"Is there a way for us all to reach some kind of common ground where all sides can be heard and that is possible? And if we could do that at this table, why isn't it possible for Congress?" Winfrey asked.

"Well, the thing is, if -- Oprah, if I wanna sell you a bushel of apples for $20 and you only wanna pay me $10, it does me no good if I say, 'No, the price is $20,' and I walk back to my truck. And it does you no good if you say, 'Well, I'm only willing to pay $10.' At some point we have to come together and figure out how we're gonna get to $15, at some point," VanderWerff said.

"Twelve dollars," Winfrey responded.

"Fair enough!" VanderWerff said with a laugh. "And that's what bothers me about Congress is you've got people over here saying, 'No way ever.' And you've got people saying, 'No way ever.' When you have a conversations with people… you take the hot button issues off the table. You look for the common ground. You look for the common denominator. And then you work from there."
oprah-winfrey-michigan-farmer-60-minutes.jpg

The day after our tabletop talk, we visited VanderWerff, a fourth-generation farmer, at one of his orchards outside Grand Rapids. Winfrey asked him what he thought of the discourse around the table.

"You know, I thought it was, I thought it was really good, really interesting discussion. Got to visit with a lot of people that I wouldn't normally interact with in my day-to-day life," VanderWerff said. "So it was... eye opening."

"We were talking last night about whether or not your Congress gets you, whether or not the president gets you. Do you think most of America gets what it takes to do what you do out here every day?" Winfrey asked.

"Unfortunately, I believe the vast majority of Americans really have no clue what it takes to do a lot of what we do out here. Everything you see behind us, all these apples were handpicked. Every apple in the United States is hand-harvested. There are no machines for this. So we depend on migrant labor, on skilled migrant labor to come in and do this. We have had over the years dozens of American, you know, domestic American citizens show up and say, 'Yeah, I'd like to pick apples.' Most of 'em don't make it through a day," VanderWerff said.

"So how are the immigration laws gonna affect you being able to get workers to do this?" Winfrey asked.

"Personally I think we probably oughta let more people into this country at some point. But we have to have a handle on who's coming in, when they're coming in, where they're coming from, all these things," VanderWerff said.

"So if President Trump were here right now, what would you advise him about immigration?" Winfrey asked.

"I would advise the president to continue the path to securing the border because we have to have a secure national border because we have to have a secure national border. I agree with him – " VanderWerff said.

"Does that mean building the wall?" Winfrey asked.

"I think it does mean building a wall. But it has to be a wall with as he said he said during his campaign, I think it was a big, beautiful door in it, or something to that effect," VanderWerff said. "We need immigrant workers to come into this country for a variety of skills and positions. And we allow them to come in and to fill jobs that we have here."
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Re: Michigan farmer tells Oprah she can have her Cake and Eat it too!
« Reply #761 on: September 25, 2017, 09:24:03 AM »
Come the Revolution, Oprah will be roasted over an open fire.

RE

Yes, but will she taste like chicken?
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

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Re: Michigan farmer tells Oprah she can have her Cake and Eat it too!
« Reply #762 on: September 25, 2017, 03:49:29 PM »
Come the Revolution, Oprah will be roasted over an open fire.
Yes, but will she taste like chicken?
I think modern cannibals reference "long pig" due to the taste...
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

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How Bangladeshis are coping with half a million new Rohingya refugees
« Reply #763 on: September 29, 2017, 09:22:18 AM »
Next Story:

How Florida is coping with a half million new Puerto Rican refugees

The Great Migration has begun.

RE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/how-bangladeshis-are-coping-with-half-a-million-new-rohingya-refugees/2017/09/29/4a6624ca-a1ee-11e7-b573-8ec86cdfe1ed_story.html?utm_term=.75d704dd0f18

How Bangladeshis are coping with half a million new Rohingya refugees
By Max Bearak September 29 at 8:32 AM


Rohingya refugees walk across a field at dusk after crossing the border from Burma in Gundum, Bangladesh. (Dan Kitwood/Getty Images)

GUNDUM, Bangladesh — The sudden arrival of half a million Rohingya Muslims has upended life in this humble village, which is now overshadowed by one of the largest concentrations of refugees in the world.

The village’s rundown school and a smattering of rice paddies sit across the road from thousands of acres of bamboo huts covered by black tarp, a safe harbor for the refugees fleeing ethnic violence in Burma. That land was once a forest where villagers picked wild fruit.

Last Saturday, the midday tea-sipping crowd hung out on the benches in front of Munwara Begum’s provisions store here. In their discussion were echoes of a conversation happening around the world about the costs of compassion toward refugees. It was one filled with conflicting emotions.

[One month on, a bleak new reality emerges for Rohingya refugees ]

“The price of rice has doubled since they came. The price of rickshaws has doubled. Vegetables, soap, you name it, and the price has gone up,” said Begum, counting her very real grievances on her fingers. Basic economics is at work here: When demand rises sharply and supply lags in catching up, prices rise.

“And the Rohingya are rich!” she said. “They have nice phones, solar panels. The ones who’ve been here since ’91 are in better shape than us!”

Joshimuddin, an elementary school teacher, who like many here goes by one name, chimed in.

“Crime, too,” he said. “If a Rohingya beats someone or even murders them, they can just hide in the refugee camp. Then what are we supposed to do? They outnumber us.”

“It’s not like I don’t have sympathy — they had their own lives and now they have to stand in line for an hour just to use the toilet,” he continued. “But . ..”

Begum completed his thought with an echo of the Burmese state line she said she’d heard somewhere or the other: “Their boys attacked the military first. What did they expect to happen?”

Eklash Mian, a sharecropper, was visibly uncomfortable. He put his arm around his young son, drew him close and said, “They are poor. They are in trouble. Let them come. We’ll get by.”

Hundreds of thousands of Rohingya refugees are fleeing violence in their villages in Burma, where the military and Buddhist villagers are carrying out a violent crackdown. (Dan Kitwood/Getty Images)

The recent arrivals are most certainly poor and in trouble. Many arrived with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Others who had time to bring along livestock or family heirlooms sold them for a pittance to the boatmen who ferried them to safety across an estuary that separates their burning villages in Burma with Bangladesh. As aid organizations struggle to cope with the sheer scale of need, thousands of Rohingya line the main road here, begging for alms.

Then again, Bangladesh is not exactly a beacon of prosperity. Nor is it a land of wide open spaces.

[Rohingya refugees crossing into Bangladesh face another threat: Land mines]

Bangladesh has far and away the highest population density of any sizable nation — around 3,000 people per square mile pack the alluvial plain that spans most of the country. The average Bangladeshi earns less than $1,500 a year. National highways are often pothole-strewn two-lane roads.

The overcrowding, the poverty and the underdevelopment are amplified in the country’s far southeast, where the half million new arrivals have joined hundreds of thousands who fled earlier waves of violence. The latest exodus out of Burma began Aug. 25, when a band of Rohingya militants attacked police posts in Rakhine state, prompting a violent military crackdown in Rohingya villages.

Returning to Burma anytime soon is simply not in the cards for the Rohingya. Despite living in Burma for generations, they are considered Bangladeshi interlopers, not citizens, and the question of whether Burma will ever grant return to those who have no paperwork is viewed with great doubt here.
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A Rohingya man escaped Burma, scared and badly burned. Then he went back for his mother.
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Mohammad Ilias, a Rohingya Muslim refugee, escaped from Burma after its security forces began burning down his village on Aug. 26. In the chaos, he was separated from his mother. A week later, he went back for her. (Maher Sattar, Joyce Lee/The Washington Post)

But while locals may be reluctant with their sympathy, bigger players in Bangladesh are eyeing political opportunities in this time of crisis.

Speaking to Al Jazeera last week, Bangladeshi Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina brushed aside doubts that her impoverished country could handle the influx, and cast the well-being of the Rohingya as a national cause.

“Bangladesh is not a rich country, it is true. We have 160 million people in a small geographical land,” she said. “But if we can feed 160 million people, another 500 or 700,000, we can do it. We can share our food. We are ready to do it. And our people are already doing it.”

[‘Blood flowed in the streets’: Refugees from one Rohingya hamlet recount days of horror]

Across Bangladesh, streets and highways are lined with posters depicting Hasina wiping a tear off the cheek of a refugee child. They boldly declare: “Sheikh Hasina is the mother of humanity,” and “Where is humanity, there is Sheikh Hasina.” The opposition parties have their own versions. A hotly contested national election is just one year away.

Where politicians hope some will see compassion, others are seeing a ploy to curry support from Bangladesh’s religious right, which has come out strongly in favor of welcoming the refugees. Rohingya Muslims largely adhere to a conservative strain of Islam and speak a language similar to the dialect of Bengali prevalent in the country’s southeast. Bangladesh is 90 percent Muslim.
Scorched earth. Harrowing escapes. Half a million on the move. View Graphic

“Bangladesh offered land to shelter Rohingya. What if these people were Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews but not Muslims? Shelter not for humanity but for votes!” wrote Taslima Nasreen, one of Hasina’s fiercest critics, who has lived in exile since 1994, when she was accused of defaming Islam.

The Islamist groups that hounded secularists like Nasreen out of the country are the same ones spearheading the local relief effort for Rohingya refugees. The camps are full of volunteer groups from religious schools and organizations, handing out food, clothes and cash.

One in particular, Hefazat-e-Islam, has staged increasingly large rallies in Bangladesh’s two biggest cities, Dhaka and Chittagong. Tens of thousands have shown up. On Monday, Hefazat leader Junayed Babunagari issued a public statement saying the Rohingya were facing “genocide” and that if diplomacy fails to return them to their homes in Burma, Bangladesh should consider a military intervention.

Curiously, no religious or governmental organization is suggesting a path to citizenship for the Rohingya, who are expected to be here indefinitely. And government-imposed restrictions confine them to the camps near Gundum. Police checkpoints have turned back thousands seeking to move farther afield.

“The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said that Muslims must help other Muslims,” said Maulana Jameel Hossein, a teacher at a madrassa who was tossing used clothing at refugees who had gathered around his organization’s truck. “The Rohingya are being attacked for no other crime than being Muslim. Until they can go back home, they will be our guests.”

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Perhaps that was easy for Hossein to say. He lives in Brahmanbaria, 250 miles away from the camps that continue to grow by the day.

Mushfique Wadud contributed to this report.


Rohingya refugees reach for food distributed by Bangladeshi volunteers near Gundum, Bangladesh, in early September. (Bernat Armangue/AP)

Read more

‘Textbook example of ethnic cleansing’: Rohingya flood Bangladesh as crisis worsens

The Rohingya exodus from Burma is arduous — and sometimes lethal

Rohingya militants in Burma: Terrorists or freedom fighters?

Today’s coverage from Post correspondents around the world

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UNHCR on 'full alert' as 11,000 Rohingya flee in a day
« Reply #764 on: October 10, 2017, 04:07:16 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-refugees-un/unhcr-on-full-alert-as-11000-rohingya-flee-in-a-day-idUSKBN1CF0YU?il=0

#World News
October 10, 2017 / 1:25 AM / Updated an hour ago
UNHCR on 'full alert' as 11,000 Rohingya flee in a day
Stephanie Nebehay

3 Min Read


Rohingya refugees who fled from Myanmar wait in the rice field to be let through after after crossing the border in Palang Khali, Bangladesh October 9, 2017. REUTERS/Damir Sagolj

GENEVA (Reuters) - Bangladesh border guards reported more than 11,000 Rohingya refugees crossing into their country from Myanmar on Monday, in a sudden surge, the United Nations refugee agency said.

More than half a million Rohingya have fled Myanmar since Aug. 25 after insurgent attacks on security forces triggered a violent government crackdown, but the rate had slowed to about 2,000 refugees per day last week, aid agencies say.

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“We’re back in a situation of full alert as far as influxes are concerned. It is a big increase to see 11,000,” Adrian Edwards, spokesman for the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), told a news briefing in Geneva on Tuesday.

“We have had big numbers coming across by the day over the six weeks of this emergency. So we are back up to approaching some of those peak arrivals. Clearly we have to be prepared for more arrivals,” he said.

Many of the refugees are reported to come from the Buthidaung area in Myanmar’s northern Rakhine state, which is 20-25 kilometers east of Maungdaw.

“Some said they had fled torching and killings back home; one boy was seen with a big gash across his neck,” Edwards said.

“We don’t know at the moment what is driving this,” he added. “Some of these people have fled their homes several days ago and in some cases two weeks ago, so they moved toward the border before coming across.”

There are also indications of more recent problems.

“As you may have seen from media reports which I can’t verify, but there are reports about fires being seen close to the border (and) other problems there,” Edwards said.

Meanwhile, a massive cholera immunization campaign began on Tuesday near Cox’s Bazar, Bangladesh, aimed at protecting newly-arrived Rohingya and host communities from the disease which can be deadly, the World Health Organization (WHO) said.

Some 900,000 oral vaccine doses will be distributed, including 650,000 in an initial 10-day campaign to be followed by a second round from Oct. 31 targeting 250,000 children between one and five years old, the agency said.

There is a “clear and present risk” of the spread of cholera among the population.

“Luckily, we don’t have any confirmed cases of cholera so far,” WHO spokesman Christian Lindmeier said.

Reporting by Stephanie Nebehay,; Editing by Catherine Evans and Ed Osmond
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