AuthorTopic: Occupy Monsanto: Official GMO Foods MUST DIE Thread  (Read 43333 times)

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Monsanto's Patents on Life
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2013, 12:21:00 PM »
The case boils down to this. Monsanto sells its patented genetically engineered (GE) “Roundup Ready” soybean seeds to farmers under a contract that prohibits the farmers from saving the next-generation seeds and replanting them. Farmers like Mr. Bowman who buy Monsanto’s GE seeds are required to buy new seeds every year. For years, Mr. Bowman played by Monsanto’s rules. Then in 2007, he bought an unmarked mix of soybeans from a grain elevator and planted them. Some of the soybeans turned out to have been grown from Monsanto’s patented Roundup Ready soybean seeds. Monsanto sued Mr. Bowman, won, and the court ordered the farmer to pay the company $84,000. Mr. Bowman appealed, arguing that he unknowingly bought soybeans grown from Monsanto’s seeds, not the seeds themselves, and that therefore the law of “patent exhaustion” applies.
I hate to say it, but Monsanto was smart in bringing this case to the Supreme Court.  Even I would have a hard time ruling against them, because he signed a contract.  Depending on the wording of the contract, Mr. Bowman could easily have breached it.  Had he bought them from a seed dealer, his claims of innocence would have much more merit, the onus thereby falling on the seed dealer, but I doubt the grain elevator operator made any claims as to the suitability of the soybeans he was selling for the purposes of planting.  It really sounds to me like Mr. Bowman was trying to weasel out of the contract he signed.  Much as I despise Monsanto, if we don't honor contract law, we are courting chaos.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline WHD

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Re: Monsanto's Patents on Life
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2013, 12:32:06 PM »
The case boils down to this. Monsanto sells its patented genetically engineered (GE) “Roundup Ready” soybean seeds to farmers under a contract that prohibits the farmers from saving the next-generation seeds and replanting them. Farmers like Mr. Bowman who buy Monsanto’s GE seeds are required to buy new seeds every year. For years, Mr. Bowman played by Monsanto’s rules. Then in 2007, he bought an unmarked mix of soybeans from a grain elevator and planted them. Some of the soybeans turned out to have been grown from Monsanto’s patented Roundup Ready soybean seeds. Monsanto sued Mr. Bowman, won, and the court ordered the farmer to pay the company $84,000. Mr. Bowman appealed, arguing that he unknowingly bought soybeans grown from Monsanto’s seeds, not the seeds themselves, and that therefore the law of “patent exhaustion” applies.
I hate to say it, but Monsanto was smart in bringing this case to the Supreme Court.  Even I would have a hard time ruling against them, because he signed a contract.  Depending on the wording of the contract, Mr. Bowman could easily have breached it.  Had he bought them from a seed dealer, his claims of innocence would have much more merit, the onus thereby falling on the seed dealer, but I doubt the grain elevator operator made any claims as to the suitability of the soybeans he was selling for the purposes of planting.  It really sounds to me like Mr. Bowman was trying to weasel out of the contract he signed.  Much as I despise Monsanto, if we don't honor contract law, we are courting chaos.


JD,

He didn't sign any contract that said he couldn't buy any unmarked bag of seeds, which this article and the facts claim that he did. Never mind, what is contract law, when monopolists rule the world? Too, Monsanto can effectively say all soybeans everywhere have their patented genetics in them, since they control 93% of the market, and soybeans cross pollinate easily. The Supreme Court is acting as if monopoly trumps nature, ie Monsanto is more important than anything. Come to think of it, has Monsanto ever lost a court case anywhere other than Europe?

WHD 

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Monsanto's Patents on Life
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2013, 01:27:30 PM »
Quote
I hate to say it, but Monsanto was smart in bringing this case to the Supreme Court.  Even I would have a hard time ruling against them, because he signed a contract.  Depending on the wording of the contract, Mr. Bowman could easily have breached it.  Had he bought them from a seed dealer, his claims of innocence would have much more merit, the onus thereby falling on the seed dealer, but I doubt the grain elevator operator made any claims as to the suitability of the soybeans he was selling for the purposes of planting.  It really sounds to me like Mr. Bowman was trying to weasel out of the contract he signed.  Much as I despise Monsanto, if we don't honor contract law, we are courting chaos.
He didn't sign any contract that said he couldn't buy any unmarked bag of seeds, which this article and the facts claim that he did. Never mind, what is contract law, when monopolists rule the world? Too, Monsanto can effectively say all soybeans everywhere have their patented genetics in them, since they control 93% of the market, and soybeans cross pollinate easily. The Supreme Court is acting as if monopoly trumps nature, ie Monsanto is more important than anything. Come to think of it, has Monsanto ever lost a court case anywhere other than Europe?
The contract he signed might have said that he wouldn't plant seeds from Monsanto unless he purchased them from Monsanto.  And quite frankly, unless a seed grower is being very careful to prevent cross-contamination, I would assume their seeds are.  In fact, I think I am going to start using Roundup on a few test seedlings whenever I buy new seeds to make sure they aren't GMO contaminated.  And of course, the results don't go in the compost pile.  ;)
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline WHD

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Re: Monsanto's Patents on Life
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2013, 02:05:22 PM »
Quote
I hate to say it, but Monsanto was smart in bringing this case to the Supreme Court.  Even I would have a hard time ruling against them, because he signed a contract.  Depending on the wording of the contract, Mr. Bowman could easily have breached it.  Had he bought them from a seed dealer, his claims of innocence would have much more merit, the onus thereby falling on the seed dealer, but I doubt the grain elevator operator made any claims as to the suitability of the soybeans he was selling for the purposes of planting.  It really sounds to me like Mr. Bowman was trying to weasel out of the contract he signed.  Much as I despise Monsanto, if we don't honor contract law, we are courting chaos.
He didn't sign any contract that said he couldn't buy any unmarked bag of seeds, which this article and the facts claim that he did. Never mind, what is contract law, when monopolists rule the world? Too, Monsanto can effectively say all soybeans everywhere have their patented genetics in them, since they control 93% of the market, and soybeans cross pollinate easily. The Supreme Court is acting as if monopoly trumps nature, ie Monsanto is more important than anything. Come to think of it, has Monsanto ever lost a court case anywhere other than Europe?
The contract he signed might have said that he wouldn't plant seeds from Monsanto unless he purchased them from Monsanto.  And quite frankly, unless a seed grower is being very careful to prevent cross-contamination, I would assume their seeds are.  In fact, I think I am going to start using Roundup on a few test seedlings whenever I buy new seeds to make sure they aren't GMO contaminated.  And of course, the results don't go in the compost pile.  ;)

That is the courts effectively enforcing monopoly. We might as well say it is illegal to route any information anywhere except through the NSA.

As for buying Monsanto product to test for Monsanto corruption of nature? I think it would be better to outlaw GMO. Which the Congress nor the courts would ever consider, unless it was proved conclusively that GMO caused cancer or deformities. After which they would legislate immunity for the key players and limit monetary judgements, no doubt. If that sounds cynical, what is the taking over of the food supply with mad scientist doctored food stuff, without any serious testing of potential dangers, and without labelling? Criminal behavior, that's what. Defending the contracts of these people is like saying a contract with the mafia should be enforced, for the sake of the integrity of contracts.

WHD

Offline g

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Re: Occupy Monsanto
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2013, 02:47:56 PM »
Quote
Criminal behavior, that's what. Defending the contracts of these people is like saying a contract with the mafia should be enforced, for the sake of the integrity of contracts.

WHD

Hi again Duncan, this very thing reminds me of a discussion I had yesterday with Monsta. He posted interest rates on payday loans upward of 6000 percent. I told him his sources were tabloids or people who couldn't add. CFS, I said to myself, how could anyone sane lend some poor bastard 10 bucks and present him with a contract to sign that he owed him around 600 at the end of a year. How could such a thing exist in the civilized world.  I posted an article with 500 percent rates here in the US which are just as incomprehensible.

Monsta was correct however and much to my shock I was proven wrong. There are contracts signed every day in England, the birth place of our legal system, for these criminal extortions.  Something is seriously wrong out there and beyond my understanding.  The Mafia is a better place to go  now for a loan it appears.  :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Occupy Monsanto
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2013, 03:04:23 PM »
Monsta was correct however and much to my shock I was proven wrong. There are contracts signed every day in England, the birth place of our legal system, for these criminal extortions.  Something is seriously wrong out there and beyond my understanding.
What is wrong is an almost criminally negligent education system that turns out people without CFS when it comes to financial matters... 
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline g

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Re: Occupy Monsanto
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2013, 03:13:48 PM »
Monsta was correct however and much to my shock I was proven wrong. There are contracts signed every day in England, the birth place of our legal system, for these criminal extortions.  Something is seriously wrong out there and beyond my understanding.
What is wrong is an almost criminally negligent education system that turns out people without CFS when it comes to financial matters...

Hi JD, that certainly is a problem, but don't you think we should have a legal system that disregards such contracts as criminal.

I would like to think we still have judges or magistrates in this world who would tear up such a contract and lock up the presenter of such an instrument in the pokey for a period of reflection.

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Monsanto's Patents on Life
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2013, 03:15:28 PM »
If that sounds cynical, what is the taking over of the food supply with mad scientist doctored food stuff, without any serious testing of potential dangers, and without labelling? Criminal behavior, that's what. Defending the contracts of these people is like saying a contract with the mafia should be enforced, for the sake of the integrity of contracts.
There already is a legal principle that contracts to commit a crime are unenforceable.  But if the contract is for a perfectly legal service, like driving a limo, and is entered into without coercion or deception, yeah, it should be enforced, even if it is for someone in the mafia.

Now, what much of what Monsanto is doing should be criminal, but at this point it is not, and that's Congress's job, not the Supreme Court's.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Occupy Monsanto
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2013, 03:21:14 PM »
Hi JD, that certainly is a problem, but don't you think we should have a legal system that disregards such contracts as criminal.

I would like to think we still have judges or magistrates in this world who would tear up such a contract and lock up the presenter of such an instrument in the pokey for a period of reflection.
Actually, there are such laws, at the state level, against usury.  The way they get around them is by charging fees and limiting lifespans of the loans, but allowing people to take out new loans to cover their old ones.

I am curious if RE sees any payday loan places in Alaska, I've read they still consider anything over 10% APR usury.  Personally I think the big mistake was not tying the usury rate to the Fed rates.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline g

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Re: Occupy Monsanto
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2013, 03:34:14 PM »
Hi JD, that certainly is a problem, but don't you think we should have a legal system that disregards such contracts as criminal.

I would like to think we still have judges or magistrates in this world who would tear up such a contract and lock up the presenter of such an instrument in the pokey for a period of reflection.
Actually, there are such laws, at the state level, against usury.  The way they get around them is by charging fees and limiting lifespans of the loans, but allowing people to take out new loans to cover their old ones.

I am curious if RE sees any payday loan places in Alaska, I've read they still consider anything over 10% APR usury.  Personally I think the big mistake was not tying the usury rate to the Fed rates.

I am quite aware of the laws and the methods of getting around them JD. My point is the same as Duncan's; reason and justice should be the determining factor in such cases of criminal extortion of the poor.

If you are dying of thirst and I offer to sell you glass of cold water for twenty grand and you sign the dotted line should a legal system worthy of it's name enforce such a contract? That is my only point.

Keep in mind when you go into a courtroom the Judge becomes the law, not the mumbo jumbo pieces of paper.

Offline WHD

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Re: Monsanto's Patents on Life
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2013, 10:13:19 PM »
If that sounds cynical, what is the taking over of the food supply with mad scientist doctored food stuff, without any serious testing of potential dangers, and without labelling? Criminal behavior, that's what. Defending the contracts of these people is like saying a contract with the mafia should be enforced, for the sake of the integrity of contracts.
There already is a legal principle that contracts to commit a crime are unenforceable.  But if the contract is for a perfectly legal service, like driving a limo, and is entered into without coercion or deception, yeah, it should be enforced, even if it is for someone in the mafia.

Now, what much of what Monsanto is doing should be criminal, but at this point it is not, and that's Congress's job, not the Supreme Court's.

JD,

So what happens then when Congress and the Supreme Court are on-the-whole criminal? I mean, seriously, Hemp prohibition? I get your point about contracts, but coercion is the top to bottom daily practice of America. Hell, MONEY is coercion at this point, as in, participate or die. Grow hemp and we will take everything you own? So Monsanto populates the government with its minions, and that makes their contracts legit? 9-0 says the Supremecist Court in the Bowman case. The mafia MAKES the laws at this point, and ENFORCES them, ruthlessly. There is no real negotiation with Mafia, when the Mafia is the system.

WHD

Offline WHD

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Re: Occupy Monsanto
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2013, 10:16:53 PM »
Quote
Criminal behavior, that's what. Defending the contracts of these people is like saying a contract with the mafia should be enforced, for the sake of the integrity of contracts.

WHD

Hi again Duncan, this very thing reminds me of a discussion I had yesterday with Monsta. He posted interest rates on payday loans upward of 6000 percent. I told him his sources were tabloids or people who couldn't add. CFS, I said to myself, how could anyone sane lend some poor bastard 10 bucks and present him with a contract to sign that he owed him around 600 at the end of a year. How could such a thing exist in the civilized world.  I posted an article with 500 percent rates here in the US which are just as incomprehensible.

Monsta was correct however and much to my shock I was proven wrong. There are contracts signed every day in England, the birth place of our legal system, for these criminal extortions.  Something is seriously wrong out there and beyond my understanding.  The Mafia is a better place to go  now for a loan it appears.  :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:

Seriously, GO, the government at this point makes the mafia blush. Who the fuck wants to be in the mafia when you can be legit and do ten, a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand times as well. America, England/where the scum of the pot rises to the top.

WHD

Offline RE

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Re: Occupy Monsanto
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2013, 10:30:07 PM »
Who the fuck wants to be in the mafia when you can be legit and do ten, a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand times as well. America, England/where the scum of the pot rises to the top.


RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Surly1

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Re: Occupy Monsanto/It CAN Happen...
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2013, 11:12:52 AM »
"Thousands and thousands of farmers poured their heart and soul into protests of "Law 970," which made it illegal for farmers to save seeds in order for transnational corporations and other companies to gain monopoly control over the market."

They shut down food production and rallied against GMOs and for control of their own seeds...and they won! This is how it's done, folks!
VIDEO: Colombian Farmers Win Back Control Of Their Seeds After Prolonged Strike
http://www.popularresistance.org/video-colombian-farmers-win-back-control-of-their-seeds-after-prolonged-strike/

National Farmers and Social Strike gets seeds control law 970 suspended

In Colombia after 21 days of a nationwide strike by thousands of farmers, blocking more than 40 roads nationwide, protesting farmers forced the Colombian government to negotiate the rejection of a farm bill and the release of detained protesters.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Vz0tiRKvD0&amp;feature=player_embedded&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/9Vz0tiRKvD0&amp;feature=player_embedded&fs=1</a>

"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline WHD

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Re: Occupy Monsanto/It CAN Happen...
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2013, 10:26:12 PM »
"Thousands and thousands of farmers poured their heart and soul into protests of "Law 970," which made it illegal for farmers to save seeds in order for transnational corporations and other companies to gain monopoly control over the market."

They shut down food production and rallied against GMOs and for control of their own seeds...and they won! This is how it's done, folks!
VIDEO: Colombian Farmers Win Back Control Of Their Seeds After Prolonged Strike
http://www.popularresistance.org/video-colombian-farmers-win-back-control-of-their-seeds-after-prolonged-strike/

National Farmers and Social Strike gets seeds control law 970 suspended

In Colombia after 21 days of a nationwide strike by thousands of farmers, blocking more than 40 roads nationwide, protesting farmers forced the Colombian government to negotiate the rejection of a farm bill and the release of detained protesters.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Vz0tiRKvD0&amp;feature=player_embedded&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/9Vz0tiRKvD0&amp;feature=player_embedded&fs=1</a>

Awesome!

Unfortunately, there would need to be farmers in this country. The only one's left are tenant Agri-businessmen.

WHD 

 

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