AuthorTopic: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea  (Read 9625 times)

Offline Palloy

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 3754
    • View Profile
    • https://palloy.wordpress.com
China raises the stakes.

http://zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-28/russia-and-china-will-hold-joint-naval-drills-contested-south-china-sea
Russia And China Will Hold Joint Naval Drills In Contested South China Sea
Tyler Durden
Jul 29, 2016

When on July 12 we described the symbolic, if utterly meaningless ruling by the Hague's Permanent Court of Arbitration on July 12, according to which China had no legal claim on most of the South China Sea (obviously, a ruling that China said repeatedly both before and after it would ignore), we said that "Ironically, in attempting to stem China's territorial expansions in the region, the tribunal will likely just provoke Beijing even more."

Just over two weeks later we got the first official confirmation that this is precisely what has happened, when overnight China's Defense Ministry announced that China and Russia would hold "routine" naval exercises in the contested area in the South China Sea this coming September, "adding that the drills were aimed at strengthening their cooperation and were not aimed at any other country."

Translation: the drills are aimed at the US, whose diplomatic relationship with "uber hacker" Russia is the worst it has been since the cold war, and whose ties with China have been deteriorating over the past several years, and culminating with July's ruling which clearly pinpointed the biggest geopolitical tension point - the South China Sea.

As Reuters trivially adds, "the exercises come at a time of heightened tension in the contested waters after an arbitration court in The Hague ruled this month that China did not have historic rights to the South China Sea and criticized its environmental destruction there. China rejected the ruling and refused to participate in the case."

"This is a routine exercise between the two armed forces, aimed at strengthening the developing China-Russia strategic cooperative partnership," China's defense ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told a regular monthly news conference.

"The exercise is not directed against third parties."

Of course, it isn't.

While China and an isolated by the west Russia, have been developing increasingly closer commercial ties over the past several years, including bilateral currency swaps, a major natural gas pipeline, and joint exploration projects, so far the two countries had not had a chance to demontrate the tight nature of their Eurasian geopolitical "axis." Furthermore, China and Russia are veto-wielding members of the U.N. Security Council, and have held similar views on many major issues such as the crisis in Syria. This has repeatedly put them at odds with the United States and Western Europe.

Last year, they held joint military drills in the Sea of Japan and the Mediterranean. However, nowhere has the tension been higher than in the South China Sea, which is precisely where China will show the US how is boss. And it will have Russia by its side.

Naturally, White House spokesman Josh Earnest played down the significance of the exercises even though he conceded that the South China Sea was "a sensitive diplomatic topic right now".

"I don't know what exercises they are planning, but in the same way the United States and China have a military-to-military relationship, I'm not surprised that Russia and China are seeking to build upon their military-to-military relationship as well," he told a regular briefing.

The question then is whose military-to-military relationship is more important to Beijing.

China has recently taken part in U.S.-led multinational naval drills in the Pacific and a U.S. defense official said he did not expect the China-Russia exercises to affect U.S. military activity or behavior in the South China Sea.

“We're not concerned about the safety of U.S. vessels in the region as long as interactions with the Chinese remain safe and professional, which has been the case in most cases,” the official said. Except for those cases in which it wasn't.

China claims most of the South China Sea, through which more than $5 trillion of trade moves annually. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam have rival claims.

China has repeatedly blamed the United States for stoking tension in the region through its military patrols, and of taking sides in the dispute. The United States has sought to assert its right to freedom of navigation in the South China Sea with its patrols and denies taking sides in the territorial disputes.

And this is why September's drills are important: Russia has been a strong backer of China's stance on the arbitration case, which was brought by the Philippines. Yang said China and Russia were comprehensive strategic partners and had already held many exercises this year.

"These drills deepen mutual trust and expand cooperation, raise the ability to jointly deal with security threats, and benefit the maintenance of regional and global peace and stability," he said.

And, as time goes by, Russia and China will only become closer strategic partners, to the exclusion of the US and Washington's own Pacific Rim sphere of influence.
The State is a body of armed men

Offline Palloy

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 3754
    • View Profile
    • https://palloy.wordpress.com
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2016, 04:00:46 PM »
The US's first response to the new friendship between China and Philippines was to sail a destroyer through Xisha/Paracel Islands, claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam.  Same old thing - resorting to military muscle-flexing.

Then People's Daily carried this opinion piece, but only in short form on-line at http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/1022/c90000-9131304.html
Sister publication Global Times has the English translation of the full piece:

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1013206.shtml
China will never allow US to run amok in South China Sea: People’s Daily
Source:People's Daily Published: 2016/10/23 21:49:27

China will never allow the US to run amok in South China Sea waters, the People's Daily asserted in a commentary on Sunday after a US Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS Decatur, sailed through the waters of the Xisha Islands on Friday without the Chinese approval. 

What the US did, driven by its hegemonic mentality, cannot increase its influence in Asia-Pacific region, the article said, adding that such acts to stir up enmity and make troubles will only result in the accelerated decline of its global influence.

The Chinese government resolutely opposes such provocative behavior and takes a series of effective counter-measures, added the commentary under the byline of Zhongsheng.

The following is the translation of the article:

A US Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS Decatur, sailed through Xisha Island waters, part of the South China Sea as Chinese territorial waters, on Friday without the approval of Chinese authorities. The Chinese government resolutely opposes such provocative behavior and will take a series of effective counter-measures.

In the statement of the Chinese government on the territorial sea baseline issued in May 1996, China clarified the baseline of the Xisha Islands. The Law of the People's Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone and other international laws also stipulates that all foreign warships need to gain approval from the Chinese government before entering Chinese waters.

The illegal entry of US warships into Chinese waters without permission seriously violates China's sovereignty and security interests, breaches both Chinese and international laws as well, and poses threats to peace, security as well as order in the relevant waters.

What the US did aims to encroach upon the sovereignty, security and maritime interests of regional countries in the so-called name of a "freedom-of-navigation operation." But such provocative acts once again expose the negative energy of its "Rebalance to Asia" strategy, and at the same time verify the US' role as a real trouble-maker in the South China Sea.

The so-called patrol launched by the US this time came just as China and the Philippines, a country immediately concerned with the South China Sea issue, were restoring their ties. During Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte's state visit to China, the two countries inked a series of cooperation agreements.

This US provocation in Chinese territorial waters, at a time when the improvement of ties between China and relevant countries is pulling the South China Sea issue to a encouraging solution, proves that the US has been destabilizing the South China Sea by playing up tensions.

By launching the so-called patrols, the superpower is telling the world that it can tolerate neither a tranquil South China Sea, nor a peaceful and stable Asia-Pacific. Since it cannot find a puppet troublemaker any longer, the exasperated Washington has to create a disturbance by itself.

President Duterte pointed out in a speech that "the US feels a little anxious over China's sound ties with the Philippines," and his remarks revealed the complicated psychology of the US. Its peremptory provocation, as a matter of fact, can be regarded as a way to release its depression and an inertia to maintain its hegemony.

Washington has to realize that it is rightly this hegemonic mentality that has resulted in its declining global influence and inability to provide public goods with positive energy. It also has to admit that the era when one country can dominate an alliance network by creating tensions with lies will never come back.

No one wants to weaken the US' influence in the Asia-Pacific region, but such influence must be based on a positive dedication to common development of the whole region. Its outdated hegemonic mentality is by no means accepted by regional countries who aspire for peace, cooperation and shared progress.

It is well-known that "freedom-of-navigation," often cited by the US as a pretext, is actually a falsehood to allow the country to pursue "absolute freedom" of its own security. But the US should bear in mind the ultimate consequences of seeking absolute security as the country has paid enough bitter prices for its arrogance and ignorance.

The arbitrary decision will certainly bring the country to deadlock, and such a stubborn country may obtain some hard power, but never soft power and smart power.

If the US really wants to be a world power, it can never resort to guns, firearms, separation or fishing in troubled waters. Efforts to expand interests can be shared by all countries. Highfalutin words but obstinate and aggressive deeds will win no respect and trust from other countries.

Over the past years, in a bid to cement its maritime hegemony, the US has been destabilizing regional peace and stability by meddling in the South China Sea, challenging China and alienating ties between China and the Philippines.

Washington has not realized that those tricks cannot overturn the regional trend of peaceful development. As the Philippines once appealed, "We can't be US' 'little brown brother' forever." Its choice to adjust diplomatic policies and reinforce cooperation with China also proves that an unjust cause committed to by the US finds little support.

What's more, the US should not bear any fantasy in terms of the South China Sea issue as this is not its first head-to-head game with China. China has a rock-solid determination to safeguard its sovereignty and territorial integrity. China will not ask for anything not belonging to itself, but it will fight for every inch of its territory within its sovereignty.

Chinese President Xi Jinping, at the gathering commemorating the 80th anniversary of the conclusion of the Long March (1934-36), urged the entire military to remain vigilant and be aware of its responsibilities, stressing that the modernization of national defense and armed forces must advance in a bid to safeguard the country's national sovereignty, security and development interests.

The US' consolidation of hegemony with military actions will only highlight China's necessity to strengthen defense, and activate China's resolution to improve its capability to safeguard its own interests.

The Chinese army will definitely safeguard China's national sovereignty and security by stepping up patrols based on demand and optimizing its defensive capabilities. China will never allow the US to run amok in the South China Sea, an issue concerning principles.
The State is a body of armed men

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 33745
    • View Profile
Recent developments surrounding the South China Sea
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2017, 07:43:04 PM »
Sunday, Feb 5, 2017 05:30 PM AST
Recent developments surrounding the South China Sea
Hrvoje Hranjski, Associated Press Skip to Comments

Topics: From the Wires, News
Recent developments surrounding the South China Sea


FILE - In this Saturday, Feb. 4, 2017 file photo, U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis answers questions during the joint press conference with Japanese Defense Minister Tomomi Inada at the Defense Ministry in Tokyo. On his first trip to Asia as secretary of defense, Mattis ruled out a military response to China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea but promised to continue with freedom of navigation operations to oppose Beijing’s occupation of disputed islands. "At this time, we do not see any need for dramatic military moves at all," Mattis told reporters in Tokyo, emphasizing the need for diplomacy. (AP Photo/Eugene Hoshiko, File)(Credit: AP)

BANGKOK (AP) — A look at recent developments in the South China Sea, where China is pitted against smaller neighbors in multiple disputes over islands, coral reefs and lagoons in waters crucial for global commerce and rich in fish and potential oil and gas reserves:

___

EDITOR’S NOTE: This is a weekly look at the latest developments in the South China Sea, home to several territorial conflicts that have raised tensions in the region.

___

MATTIS RULES OUT MILITARY RESPONSE IN SOUTH CHINA SEA

On his first trip to Asia as secretary of defense, Jim Mattis ruled out a military response to China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea but promised to continue with freedom of navigation operations to oppose Beijing’s occupation of disputed islands.

“At this time, we do not see any need for dramatic military moves at all,” Mattis told reporters in Tokyo, emphasizing the need for diplomacy.

He said that “freedom of navigation operations and other actions by the U.S. forces in the South China Sea contribute to maintaining maritime order based on the rule of law.”

“Freedom of navigation is absolute, and whether it be commercial shipping or our U.S. Navy, we will practice in international waters and transit international waters as appropriate,” he said.

Over China’s objections, U.S. warships have deliberately sailed close to Chinese-occupied features four times since October 2015 in operations meant to enforce Washington’s position that the waters must remain open to international navigation.

China has repeatedly warned the U.S. to stay away from the South China Sea disputes because it is not a claimant.

Mattis also explicitly stated that the Trump administration will stick to the previous U.S. stance that the U.S.-Japan security treaty applies to defending Japan’s continued administration of the Senkaku islands in the East China Sea, which are contested by China and also known as the Diaoyu.

In response, China’s Foreign Ministry reasserted its claim of sovereignty over the tiny, uninhabited islands and called on the U.S. to cease “making wrong remarks” over the issue.

In an editorial, the ruling Chinese Communist Party newspaper Global Times called Mattis’ statement on the South China Sea a “mind-soothing pill.”

“For, at the very least, it dispersed the clouds of war that many feared were gathering over the South China Sea,” the paper said.

___

PHILIPPINES DOESN’T BELIEVE IN U.S.-CHINA WAR

The Philippine defense secretary doesn’t think the U.S. and China will go to war over the South China Sea despite hardened rhetoric.

“Trump is a businessman and he knows that if war breaks out, businesses will suffer,” Delfin Lorenzana told the Bloomberg news agency.

He also questioned U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson’s suggestion during his Senate confirmation hearing last month that Washington should deny China access to its man-made islands where Beijing built airstrips, radars and installed weapons in waters which are also claimed by the Philippines and five other governments.
 
SPONSORED STORIES

    7 Reasons Why Glasses Should be Bought Online 7 Reasons Why Glasses Should be Bought Online GlassesUSA
    Sell Your Home Faster And For 15% More Sell Your Home Faster And For 15% More HomeLight
    Kim Kardashian's Short Skirt Caused A Major Scene Kim Kardashian's Short Skirt Caused A Major Scene Zimbio

Recommended by

“How can you prevent something that’s already there?” he said. “I’m not going to wage war over those small islands. … Even if we have the military might, we will also think twice before we engage in a shooting war.”

The prospect of a military confrontation between the U.S. and China over the South China Sea was raised by President Donald Trump’s chief strategist Steve Bannon when he hosted the conservative Breitbart News Daily radio show in 2015 and 2016, according to USA Today, which reviewed audio recordings.

“We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years, aren’t we?” Bannon was quoted as saying in March 2016. “There’s no doubt about that. They’re taking their sandbars and making basically stationary aircraft carriers and putting missiles on those. They come here to the United States in front of our face — and you understand how important face is — and say it’s an ancient territorial sea.”

Lorenzana, whose government under President Rodrigo Duterte has distanced itself from its U.S. ally and is mending relations with Beijing, said that the Philippines will continue to speak up against Chinese incursions in its waters. “We are not abandoning our claim in the South China Sea,” he said, adding that Manila’s position is backed by an international arbitration ruling last year that invalidated China’s claims in the South China Sea.

advertisement

Duterte expressed concern last week that his country may get entangled in any U.S.-China conflict, and put Washington on notice that he won’t allow any storage of lethal weapons in facilities operated by the U.S. military inside Philippine army camps. U.S. Ambassador Sung Kim denied that any weapons depots are being built.

A 2014 defense agreement, which was criticized by China, allows U.S. forces to preposition troops and equipment in five Philippine army bases close to the South China Sea.

___

U.S. PACIFIC COMMANDER TO OPEN MULTINATIONAL DRILLS IN THAILAND

U.S. military commander in the Pacific Adm. Harry Harris will be the highest-ranking American officer to attend the Cobra Gold military exercises in Thailand since a coup there three years ago.

The U.S. had scaled down the 10-day drills since the 2014 coup, and Harris’ scheduled appearance at the Feb. 14 opening ceremony is seen as a sign that the U.S.-Thai military ties are on the mend.

The largest multilateral exercise in Asia, Cobra Gold brings together 29 nations as participants and observers and 3,600 U.S. troops in drills both ashore and afloat.

___

Follow Hrvoje Hranjski at www.twitter.com/hatbangkok
SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN

Offline Palloy2

  • Administrator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 6097
    • View Profile
    • Palloy's Blog
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2017, 06:22:47 AM »
China says not to aggravate tensions, so what does US do? - sends an aircraft carrier group.  Very subtle.

https://www.rt.com/news/377841-us-carrier-china-sea-patrols/
US aircraft carrier group deployed for ‘routine patrols’ in S. China Sea
19 Feb, 2017

Ignoring repeated warnings from Beijing not to aggravate tensions in Southeast Asia, the US Navy has deployed an aircraft carrier strike group for “routine” maritime patrols in the vicinity of the disputed South China Sea waters.

The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, together with aircraft from the Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 2, and the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Wayne E. Meyer started “routine operations in the South China,” the US Navy announced.

The deployment of the Carrier Strike Group (CSG) 1 began Saturday, just days after China issued a stern warning to stay away from the area.

“China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and their adjacent waters,” China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Wednesday. “China respects and upholds the freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea which countries enjoy under international law, but firmly opposes any country’s attempt to undermine China’s sovereignty and security in the name of the freedom of navigation and overflight.”

Despite the warning, US patrols got underway in the disputed waters, right after an American flotilla held drills off the islands of Hawaii and Guam to “maintain and improve their readiness and develop cohesion as a strike group.”

“The training completed over the past few weeks has really brought the team together and improved our effectiveness and readiness as a strike group,” said Rear Adm. James Kilby, commander of CSG 1. “We are looking forward to demonstrating those capabilities while building upon existing strong relationships with our allies, partners and friends in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region.”

As tensions between US and China intensify, the US Navy appears to continue disregard Beijing’s interests in the immediate proximity of the disputed islands, claiming the moves are designed to ensure the principles of freedom of navigation in international waters.

The Spratly Islands, or Spratlys, comprise more than 750 islets, atolls, and reefs, and lie off the coastlines of Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and China, with all the claimants having their own national names for the archipelago. Beijing persists in claiming the reefs in defiance of a ruling issued by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) at the Hague.

While freedom of navigation and military drills accelerated under President Barack Obama's administration, Trump and his team appear to be heading on a collision course with China.

US-China relations, already frosty over the disputed South China Sea islands, became more strained after Trump’s phone conversation with Taiwan’s President Tsai Ing-wen, which immediately followed the Republican’s victory. The exchange infuriated Beijing, who considered it running against the bilateral protocol of the so-called 'One-China' policy, under which Washington views Taiwan as part of China.

And just over the last two weeks, both Trump and James Mattis, the current US Secretary of Defense, vowed to protect Japan in any territorial disputes it has with China in the East China Sea.

The situation has been further exacerbated by China’s militarization of the South China Sea. Chinese State media Xinhua announced on Friday that China's Navy had completed a week-long exercise there. The “scheduled” maneuvers entailed sudden attack drills and had three Chinese warships participating, including a destroyer.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Golden Oxen

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12062
    • View Profile
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2017, 06:34:30 AM »
Quote
“China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and their adjacent waters,” China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Wednesday. “China respects and upholds the freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea which countries enjoy under international law, but firmly opposes any country’s attempt to undermine China’s sovereignty and security in the name of the freedom of navigation and overflight.”

Palloy, let me first say I agree entirely with your assessment of the issue. Dangerous and warlike actions for sure.

However for the sake of accuracy, the explicit headline of the article does not in fact jibe with the statement from China that I presented from your posting. It's a troubling post and thank you for calling it to our attention.

Not trying to demean your posting in the slightest, but in matters of this nature extreme exacting precision and accuracy are a must.                                                                                                                   Regards, GO

Offline JRM

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 3190
    • View Profile
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2017, 07:40:20 AM »
Personally, I see China as a thuggish entity, especially with regard to Taiwan, which should be allowed complete national autonomy.

But I sure as hell would not want the US to go to war with China over these islands!  And especially not with trump at the helm.   trump should be taken aside and told to leave well enough alone here.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Golden Oxen

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12062
    • View Profile
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2017, 07:51:03 AM »
Personally, I see China as a thuggish entity, especially with regard to Taiwan, which should be allowed complete national autonomy.

But I sure as hell would not want the US to go to war with China over these islands!  And especially not with trump at the helm.   trump should be taken aside and told to leave well enough alone here.

It is rather difficult to see why such a major fuss. Especially when they say you are  free to travel around and do your commerce. Let's not forget we are dealing with Military strategists, they see things in a much different light than us, especially matters of this nature.

JRM, this matter has been festering long before Trump. Ashton Carter an Obama appointee is a big time hawk on this issue.

Offline JRM

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 3190
    • View Profile
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2017, 08:15:12 AM »
In my opinion, a deal was made with the devil and China about Taiwan.  The world made that deal, not just the USA.

Those who say "Taiwan has always been a part of China" don't acknowledge that traditional China came to an end with the Chinese Communist Revolution, which resulted in a split, with one faction leaving the mainland and going off to live in Taiwan.  For the mainland (CCP) to insist ever since that Taiwan belongs to them is nothing more than bullying and a continuation of war.  A kind of cold war.

It was the world which failed Taiwan, by kowtowing to the big bully, China (CCP), probably largely in order to sustain happy trade relations (for the rich).
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Palloy2

  • Administrator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 6097
    • View Profile
    • Palloy's Blog
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2017, 07:09:31 PM »
Quote
GO: However for the sake of accuracy, the explicit headline of the article does not in fact jibe with the statement from China that I presented from your posting. It's a troubling post and thank you for calling it to our attention.

Not trying to demean your posting in the slightest, but in matters of this nature extreme exacting precision and accuracy are a must.   

I don't understand what you are getting at.
Quote
US aircraft carrier group deployed for ‘routine patrols’ in S. China Sea

... doesn't jibe with ...

Quote
“China has indisputable sovereignty over the South China Sea islands and their adjacent waters,” China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Wednesday. “China respects and upholds the freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea which countries enjoy under international law, but firmly opposes any country’s attempt to undermine China’s sovereignty and security in the name of the freedom of navigation and overflight.”

?
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Golden Oxen

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12062
    • View Profile
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2017, 07:33:58 PM »
Hi Palloy let me try and explain.

The statement from China did not warn of  World War III. My reading of it leads me to believe the headline by RT is an exaggeration of what China actually said.

This is how I read it. What's your bitch US. You can use the area around here to move your ships and do commerce. No one is Fucking with you. Mind your business and don't be telling us what the fuck to do here or fabricate excuses to start trouble.

It's only my opinion but to me that is far short of threatening World war III.

Your deduction that it well could is reasonable and one I concur with.

But in all actuality China did not threaten a World War III, at least not yet.

Where we are talking nuclear powers, it is my feeling we should be as exacting as possible at what is actually said and let inferences be labeled as just that. 

It's becoming a very troublesome issue and the vibes emanating from it are horrible.  :'( :-\                  Regards, GO
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 07:35:46 PM by Golden Oxen »

Offline Palloy2

  • Administrator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 6097
    • View Profile
    • Palloy's Blog
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2017, 08:57:43 PM »
I think I see now.  Are you confusing the title of the thread, "China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea", with the RT article's title, which doesn't mention WW3 at all?

Looking back at the start of the thread, I don't see any direct quote for China warning of WW3 in so many words.  In fact that wouldn't be their style at all.  They may allow that sort of thing from a private qualified analyst/commenter in People's Daily.

An example of this from 2014, based on the tension over Ukraine:
http://en.people.cn/n/2014/0916/c90000-8782955.html
As possibility of third world war exists, China needs to be prepared
By Professor Han Xudong (Global Times)   
September 16, 2014

Judging from the contention of the global sea space, the Arctic Ocean, the Pacific and the Indian Ocean have seen the fiercest rivalry. It's likely that there will be a third world war to fight for sea rights.

In an era when a third world war may take place, an important topic for the Chinese military is how to develop its power to maintain its national interests.
====

I can't find the same thing being mentioned over South China Sea, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  You can see how that gets translated into Western media, and used as a thread title.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Palloy2

  • Administrator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 6097
    • View Profile
    • Palloy's Blog
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2017, 09:13:11 PM »
I think "Global Times" is not on the internet, hence the above article must have been reposted on People's Daily.

This from Telegraph in UK has some direct quotes from a Global Times article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/11630185/US-China-war-inevitable-unless-Washington-drops-demands-over-South-China-Sea.html

Global Times, a tabloid newspaper run by the Communist Party, said that China might have to “accept” there would be conflict with the United States.

“If the United States’ bottom line is that China has to halt its activities, then a US-China war is inevitable in the South China Sea”, said the paper, which is often seen as a mouth-piece of hardline nationalists in the government in Beijing.

State media reported on Tuesday that Beijing had begun building two lighthouses on reefs in the Spratly Islands, a smattering of outcrops that are claimed by an array of countries including not only China but also Vietnam and the Philippines.

Last month, satellite imagery revealed the Chinese had almost completed an air strip on another reef - Fiery Cross - while they are turning another rock, Mischief Reef, into a full island through land reclamation.

The Global Times article described the construction of runways, harbour facilities and buildings on the disputed Spratly Islands as the nation’s “most important bottom line”.

Speaking at a press conference in Beijing, Yang Yujun, a spokesman for the Defence Ministry, dismissed international criticism of China’s policies in the South China Sea, claiming the work was the same as building roads and homes on mainland China and that it would benefit “the whole of international society”.

“From the perspective of sovereignty, there is absolutely no difference”, he said, adding that “some external countries are also busy meddling in South China Sea affairs”.


"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 33745
    • View Profile
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2017, 09:50:15 PM »
Both sides are sabre-rattling to show how macho and tough they are.  WWIII may not be expressly mentioned in an official statement, but it's always there lurking in the background sub-text.

It's really all about who controls the sea lanes, because he who controls those controls World Trade.  This is known since the days of the Roman  Empire, which controlled trade aroud the Mediterranean Sea, and the Persians who were a land based Empire.  Both the Brits and the Dutch built their Colonial Empires from small countries by using the power of the Navy to control trade.

The FSoA inherited this from the Brits after WWII, and that's why they run all the big Carrier Groups, to project power around the world and control the shipping lanes.  The Chinese are challenging them not globally, but in their own waters by building the bases on the Spratly "Islands", which are just sand bars really.  The FSoA Navy wants to show it is still the Big Dog (Shark) in the neighborhood, so sends a Carrier Group to motor around the neighborhood intimidating everybody.  ::)

Eventually there will be an "accident" or False Flag when the economic problems become untenable.  It still doesn't look like an immediate threat though.  Both sides have too much to lose by going directly mano-a-mano with each other.  I give it at least 2 years before we are in a direct shooting war with the Chinese.

The bigger more immediate threat is a collapse of one of the TBTF (GSIB) Banks like DeutcheBank or Unicredit.  That is the most likely spark to set off a new round of Fast Collapse inside the next couple of years, IMHO.

RE
SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN

Offline Golden Oxen

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12062
    • View Profile
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2017, 04:12:32 AM »
Quote
I think I see now.  Are you confusing the title of the thread, "China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea", with the RT article's title, which doesn't mention WW3 at all?

Exactly Palloy, was treating the entire posting as a unit rather than separate parts.

Thanks for taking the time to explain my error. Whatever the case, it is a worrisome situation and it certainly appears to be worsening.                                                                                                                      Thanks Again and regards, GO
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 04:20:37 AM by Golden Oxen »

Offline Palloy2

  • Administrator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 6097
    • View Profile
    • Palloy's Blog
Re: China Warns Of World War 3 Unless The US Backs Down On South China Sea
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2017, 05:51:18 PM »
Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, and Brunei are all allowed to have claims in the South China Sea, but China is not, according to the US whose nearest territory (Guam) is 4,000 Km away, with mainland US over 14,000 Km away.  Guam was taken by force from the Spanish in 1898.  It was taken by force by the Japanese in 1941, and retaken by the US in 1944.

Calling the South China Sea a "disputed waterway" doesn't do it justice, being 1,000 Km across at its narrowest point.  The last thing China wants to do is close this ocean to international shipping.

https://www.rt.com/news/384793-stethem-south-china-sea/
USS Stethem conducting operations in S. China Sea – Navy
14 Apr, 2017

The Arleigh Burke-class, guided-missile destroyer USS Stethem (DDG 63) is “conducting routine operations” in the South China Sea, according to a Friday press release from the US Navy.

The statement went on to note that the guided-missile destroyer had been refueled at sea by Her Majesty’s New Zealand Ship (HMNZS) Endeavour (A 11).

The refueling allowed the vessel to remain mission ready, according to Command Senior Chief William Palmer IV.

“Conducting these types of operations with our allies builds proficiency and sustains our ability to maintain a persistent presence throughout the 7th Fleet area of operations,” Palmer said.

The release stated that the US vessel has regularly communicated with Chinese naval vessels during its operations, stating that countries use the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES) to “communicate navigational intentions to ensure safe maneuvering.”

Fire Controlman Senior Chief Robert Kline, a tactical actions officer, said working with foreign navies increases the responsiveness and effectiveness of his crew.

“As forward deployed naval forces, you are constantly operating around ships from other navies,” Kline said, adding “this provides vital operational experience that increases our proficiency in mission critical areas.”

The Stethem, based in Yokosuka, Japan, has been operating in the Western Pacific since departing its home port earlier this year. In addition to its operations in the South China Sea, it has operated in the waters off the Korean Peninsula alongside the Carl Vinson Strike Group and the Republic of Korea (ROK) Navy during the 2017 Foal Eagle exercises. It has also conducted routine port visits to South Korea.

The Stethem’s arrival in the South China Sea comes amid ongoing tensions between Washington and China over Beijing’s claims to the disputed waterway.

In February, China warned that it is building a “first-class navy” that will intercept “intruding aircraft” and follow any military vessels operating within its controlled areas.

That announcement came just three weeks after Beijing warned Washington against taking any action challenging China’s “sovereignty and security,” after a US carrier group began patrolling the South China Sea.

The US has long criticized China’s construction of man-made islands in the sea and its build-up of military facilities on them. US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson stated in January that Beijing’s access to those islands should be restricted.

In response, China’s state-sanctioned Global Times newspaper wrote that it would take a “large-scale war” to deny Beijing access to those islands.

China lays claim to almost all of the resource-rich South China Sea, despite competing claims from Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, and Brunei.

"The State is a body of armed men."

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
493 Views
Last post April 24, 2013, 11:37:10 PM
by Golden Oxen
8 Replies
3967 Views
Last post May 26, 2015, 03:15:48 PM
by Palloy
0 Replies
308 Views
Last post January 03, 2016, 02:36:14 PM
by Palloy