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Offline Eddie

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Why All the Shooters?
« on: July 25, 2015, 12:02:53 PM »


Consider that as the number of incarcerated people has dramatically risen, the number of people incarcerated for violent crimes has fallen WAY off.



The real answer to the question of violent nut-cases is best understood by reading and understanding the reality of these two charts.

If we want to decrease the gun violence, it might be considered that we could do so by using all the wasted money we spend on warehousing and enslaving non-violent criminals....to lock up criminally insane people, as we once did.

Drugs don't work to protect society from criminally insane people. We need more hospital care for the mentally ill. It's that simple. We emptied the mental hospitals, expecting anti-psychotic drugs to take their place. It hasn't worked.



I grieve with the families of these two young women from Lafayette. Just look at them. Young, beautiful, with their lives in front of them. They were each someone's beloved daughter, wife, best friend.



What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline MKing

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2015, 12:14:32 PM »
Drugs don't work to protect society from criminally insane people. We need more hospital care for the mentally ill. It's that simple. We emptied the mental hospitals, expecting anti-psychotic drugs to take their place. It hasn't worked.

It would be nice if just hospital care would cure "the crazies". But let us say we lock up all the crazies. Who determines who is crazy? Did you know that end of the worlder types, doomers on forums just like this one, are scared to tell their spouses that they have doomer feelings because it can be used against them in any custody case during divorce proceedings? Some were just scared to tell their shrinks in private, for fear it could be used against them, and get them locked up.

Because doomers occasionally run off and kill their families to save them from all the collapse results that never arrive, you can see how deciding WHO is crazy can be a bit tricky in determining.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2015, 02:44:16 PM »
Because doomers occasionally run off and kill their families to save them from all the collapse results that never arrive, you can see how deciding WHO is crazy can be a bit tricky in determining.


Sorry, but I don't buy it.

The streets are full of people that are well known to their families and neighbors to be be mentally ill. Sure, there may be doomers who are undiagnosed schizophrenics. There are also investment bankers, and maybe petroleum engineers who are undiagnosed schizophrenics.

I say, lets just create some inpatient care for the real obvious ones, and see how that works out, as opposed to depending on Big Pharma to sedate them into acting normal.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline MKing

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 03:11:48 PM »
Because doomers occasionally run off and kill their families to save them from all the collapse results that never arrive, you can see how deciding WHO is crazy can be a bit tricky in determining.


Sorry, but I don't buy it.

No requirement you buy it. You are certainly allowed to believe that laws are there for the protection of all, fairly applied, evenly inflicted by altruistic civil servants worried about nothing but the welfare of the body politic. My experience with others deciding whether or not what I did was right or wrong leads me to be appropriately paranoid about the good intentions of civil servants, inflicted upon the citizenry.

Quote from: Eddie
The streets are full of people that are well known to their families and neighbors to be be mentally ill.

Absolutely. And if they have any money headed their way, be it SSI, crazy disability, workers comp, an inheritance, family members will be more than helpful in making sure they control their affairs and get them locked up. Or lock them in a basement and collect their checks to help "support" them. Been there, done that. You appear to be assuming family members are fundamentally altruistic…when there is money involved? I know mothers who WANT their children to be considered retarded or impaired that they may collect social security money. It is quite a profit center, having kids to get them declared impaired in some way.

Quote from: Eddie
Sure, there may be doomers who are undiagnosed schizophrenics. There are also investment bankers, and maybe petroleum engineers who are undiagnosed schizophrenics.

All of the above, no doubt. But never geochemists. And I didn't say they were diagnosed as anything, they were just scared that their end of the world rigamarole would be confused with some mental disease or another, and get them locked up. Let us not forget that Heaven's Gaters looked perfectly okay right up until it was time for their belief system to kick in. If someone really does believe the world is ending, the fear of consequences drilled into them probably doesn't have near the weight it once did.

You do understand that a moderator over at po.com committed suicide over things that you and I kick around as just sorta/maybe scenarios? You understand Ruppert's psychological history, right? Harm to themselves or others is generally the criteria, and if someone thinks you are about to off yourself or harm others, you win the prize! And that can be pretty hard to live down, later, as we learned from Mike's experience through the mental health system. And ti ultimately failed anyway.

Quote from: Eddie
I say, lets just create some inpatient care for the real obvious ones, and see how that works out, as opposed to depending on Big Pharma to sedate them into acting normal.

I'm all for inpatient care for all sorts of things. I don't even mind kicking loose all the "non-violent last time drug offenders" to free up the funds, as long as the citizens ability to defend themselves against such folks when they decide to change from non-violent to violent is absolute.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline RE

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 03:26:05 PM »
The State Mental Institutions were closed because they were hell holes and because taxpayers didn't want to fund them.  I had an uncle who was in one of them, Ward's Island in NY Shity from the time he was 17 until he was in his early 40s, when they closed the places and started dropping these folks into group homes.

They eventually ended funding them anyhow, with the increasing prison population of the mentally ill.  Of course in this case you have to wait until the do something criminal to incarcerate them.

Locking them up prior to doing something criminal is what Uncle Joe Stalin would do, except of course the diagnosis of insanity was usually made for political reasons.  Here in the FSoA now they can do that also, simply by calling people who they think are potential Terrorists mentally ill.

There is increasing mental illness in the population for many reasons, partly all the chemicals in the environment and  partly the dysfunctional nature of society.  So you would need a lot of facilities, a lot of doctors, a lot of nurses etc to house all of them, who all need to be paid from your tax dollars.  That is assuming there are even enough psychiatrists out there willing to work in such facilities at whatever the state will pay them, which I doubt.  Prison Guards hired by private contractors come cheaper than psychiatrists, plus only the ones who actually pull off a criminal act need to be incarcerated.

Basically you have a Wicked Problem here, with the current Wicked Solution.  You can expect many more shooters moving into the future, some of whom have real psychiatric problems, others who have a dislocation in their lives like loss of a job, and others motivated by political reasons.  Trying to lock up all the "potential threats" out there is an impossibility, especially since they will exponentially increase in number as the collapse progresses.

RE
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Offline MKing

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 03:38:38 PM »
…..especially since they will exponentially increase in number as the collapse progresses.

RE

Progresses? You mean, gas prices are going to get lower AGAIN?!?!?
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline RE

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2015, 04:08:27 PM »
Like Vitamins.  One a day.

RE

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/24/there-have-been-204-mass-shootings-and-204-days-in-2015-so-far/?tid=sm_fb

There have been 204 mass shootings — and 204 days — in 2015 so far

Mass shootings that forever changed America(1:35)
From Columbine to Charleston, here's a look at some of the most notable U.S. mass shootings. (Alice Li/The Washington Post)

The headlines all start to sound the same after awhile. Seven people shot inside Louisville nightclub. Four men shot in Suffolk early Sunday morning. Two dead, two hospitalized in Brice Street shooting.

The shootings happen so often, the circumstances become so familiar, that we tune them out. One dead, five injured in west Columbus shooting. Four shot in grocery store ambush. One dead, four injured in Stockton shooting.

Every now and then a particularly heinous crime makes us pause and reflect. Nine dead in shooting at black church in Charleston. Four marines, one sailor killed in attacks on Chattanooga military facilities. Gunman opens fire on Louisiana movie theater.

The Mass Shooting Tracker, a crowd-sourced project of the anti-gun folks at the Guns Are Cool subreddit, lists 203 mass shooting events so far in 2015. Add in the shooting at a Louisiana movie theater last night and you get 204. Incidentally, yesterday was the 204th day of the year.

[Another day, another massacre – and it’s hard to explain why]

The Mass Shooting Tracker is different from other shooting databases in that it uses a broader definition of mass shooting. "The old FBI definition of Mass Murder (not even the most recent one) is four or more people murdered in one event," the site's creators explain. "It is only logical that a Mass Shooting is four or more people shot in one event."

These shootings have become so common that they typically don't even make national news. Do you remember the four people shot in Cincinnati earlier this month? How about the seven in Cleveland, or the nine in Fort Wayne? Unless you live in these areas, you probably didn't even hear about them.

This year there were 18 mass shootings in April, 39 in May, 41 in June, and 34 so far in July -- and the month isn't over yet. The theater shooting was Louisiana's 8th this year. There have been 10 in Ohio, 14 in California and 16 in New York.

Will anything change? Probably not. The Charleston shooting did produce a fruitful national conversation -- not on guns, but on the symbolism of the Confederate flag, which the shooter adopted as a banner of his racist beliefs. It took 150 years and a national tragedy for the country to reach something like a consensus on the meaning of a battle flag.

"Those who live in America, or visit it, might do best to regard [mass shootings] the way one regards air pollution in China: an endemic local health hazard which, for deep-rooted cultural, social, economic and political reasons, the country is incapable of addressing," The Economist wrote in response to the Charleston massacre. "This may, however, be a bit unfair. China seems to be making progress on pollution."

Christopher Ingraham writes about politics, drug policy and all things data. He previously worked at the Brookings Institution and the Pew Research Center.
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Offline roamer

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2015, 04:27:41 PM »
Also need to add in the blowback generated from this sort of shit.  It will only breed more, mirrors our tactics in the middle east too well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-iraq-i-raided-insurgents-in-virginia-the-police-raided-me/2015/07/24/2e114e54-2b02-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

Offline MKing

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2015, 04:50:56 PM »
Also need to add in the blowback generated from this sort of shit.  It will only breed more, mirrors our tactics in the middle east too well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-iraq-i-raided-insurgents-in-virginia-the-police-raided-me/2015/07/24/2e114e54-2b02-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

You know, I thought this was a completely unreasonable thing that you referenced, then I read the entire article. Yeah, he was unarmed, but in the middle of a negotiation because he had threatened the cops, they knew he had a gun, and the guy who pulled the trigger thought he moved. Now, he might NOT have moved, or moved enough to register with some, but this wasn't just some cop blowing away some unarmed innocent walking down the street in beach shorts and sandals, any more than Treyvon Martin was some scrawny child innocently walking home with some skittles.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline g

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 05:37:54 AM »
Drugs don't work to protect society from criminally insane people. We need more hospital care for the mentally ill. It's that simple. We emptied the mental hospitals, expecting anti-psychotic drugs to take their place. It hasn't worked.

It would be nice if just hospital care would cure "the crazies". But let us say we lock up all the crazies. Who determines who is crazy? Did you know that end of the worlder types, doomers on forums just like this one, are scared to tell their spouses that they have doomer feelings because it can be used against them in any custody case during divorce proceedings? Some were just scared to tell their shrinks in private, for fear it could be used against them, and get them locked up.

Because doomers occasionally run off and kill their families to save them from all the collapse results that never arrive, you can see how deciding WHO is crazy can be a bit tricky in determining.

Thanks MKing. You saved me the trouble.

Gold Bugs such as myself are considered crazy as well by both the dim and the psychos that use it as a weapon against you, like being a doomer. That is not conjecture my friend it is fact.

When I bought my first Gold mining stock way back in my early twenties I was required by the major NYSE firm I had an account with to sign all sorts of declaration papers. Consisting of the following.

I was counseled by them that my purchase was folly and they has warned me in writing and orally.

That it was an idea that came into my head by outside research or advice and never a word was ever uttered by them or an employee of theirs to suggest such a purchase.

That if losses were to follow my deed in no way could I sue them as they were merely acting as my agent and warned me of the danger of such a move fulfilling all manner of fiduciary responsibility, and going overboard in that regard.

The  stock was the worlds largest gold miner at the time, Vaal Reefs mining and Exploration. a South African wonder of the world mining millions of oz annually.

I purchased the stock at 10  and sold it a few years later at 115,  but that is only part of the story, it paid dividends of twice my purchase price the final year of my ownership after gold's price explosion of twenty dollars a share, two semi annual 10 dollar payments.

Wish I could take credit for being so smart but I was acting both on the purchase and sale by advice from my mentor C.V. Myers. What a brilliant man he was and how I miss him. You would have liked Vern, you remind me of him in a way. He was a Geologist and a good one, and produced facts and figures on everything from Gold, Silver, Oil, Coal, he knew his stuff and was ahead of his time. No BS from Vern, facts, figures, unhedged strait talk and specific advice with reasoning fully explained.

I was thinking of Vern and his massive brain when I recalled that broker and office manger talking to me like I was a wayward foolish child they were counseling. They were probably right about me, but it was Vern Myers they were calling crazy, and luckily I knew who the fools were at that time.
 
Enough said  for who is considered crazy and by whom.    :laugh:


                                                   
He's  Crazy
He's  Crazy
                       

                     
                                                             

« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 05:58:12 AM by Golden Oxen »

Offline MKing

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2015, 07:09:09 AM »
Drugs don't work to protect society from criminally insane people. We need more hospital care for the mentally ill. It's that simple. We emptied the mental hospitals, expecting anti-psychotic drugs to take their place. It hasn't worked.

It would be nice if just hospital care would cure "the crazies". But let us say we lock up all the crazies. Who determines who is crazy? Did you know that end of the worlder types, doomers on forums just like this one, are scared to tell their spouses that they have doomer feelings because it can be used against them in any custody case during divorce proceedings? Some were just scared to tell their shrinks in private, for fear it could be used against them, and get them locked up.

Because doomers occasionally run off and kill their families to save them from all the collapse results that never arrive, you can see how deciding WHO is crazy can be a bit tricky in determining.

Thanks MKing. You saved me the trouble.

Gold Bugs such as myself are considered crazy as well by both the dim and the psychos that use it as a weapon against you, like being a doomer. That is not conjecture my friend it is fact.

Can you imagine what happens if some capricious, subjective and mean spirited person is put in charge of who is crazy? We already have the examples of what that looks likeon internet forums where people are labelled and ridiculed because they don't fall into an "approved" category.

Comply or be cast out, same old same old.

Quote from: Golden Oxen
I was thinking of Vern and his massive brain when I recalled that broker and office manger talking to me like I was a wayward foolish child they were counseling. They were probably right about me, but it was Vern Myers they were calling crazy, and luckily I knew who the fools were at that time.
 
Enough said  for who is considered crazy and by whom.    :laugh:                         

I just bought my gold off a guy who was in a pinch. Sort of like buying a candy bar when walking out of a convenience store because it is right there in front of you, and you have an urge.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline g

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2015, 09:13:49 AM »
Drugs don't work to protect society from criminally insane people. We need more hospital care for the mentally ill. It's that simple. We emptied the mental hospitals, expecting anti-psychotic drugs to take their place. It hasn't worked.

It would be nice if just hospital care would cure "the crazies". But let us say we lock up all the crazies. Who determines who is crazy? Did you know that end of the worlder types, doomers on forums just like this one, are scared to tell their spouses that they have doomer feelings because it can be used against them in any custody case during divorce proceedings? Some were just scared to tell their shrinks in private, for fear it could be used against them, and get them locked up.

Because doomers occasionally run off and kill their families to save them from all the collapse results that never arrive, you can see how deciding WHO is crazy can be a bit tricky in determining.

Thanks MKing. You saved me the trouble.

Gold Bugs such as myself are considered crazy as well by both the dim and the psychos that use it as a weapon against you, like being a doomer. That is not conjecture my friend it is fact.

Can you imagine what happens if some capricious, subjective and mean spirited person is put in charge of who is crazy? We already have the examples of what that looks likeon internet forums where people are labelled and ridiculed because they don't fall into an "approved" category.

Comply or be cast out, same old same old.

Quote from: Golden Oxen
I was thinking of Vern and his massive brain when I recalled that broker and office manger talking to me like I was a wayward foolish child they were counseling. They were probably right about me, but it was Vern Myers they were calling crazy, and luckily I knew who the fools were at that time.
 
Enough said  for who is considered crazy and by whom.    :laugh:                         

I just bought my gold off a guy who was in a pinch. Sort of like buying a candy bar when walking out of a convenience store because it is right there in front of you, and you have an urge.

You can't con me MKing, your a closet Gold Bug.  :icon_mrgreen:

You tipped your hand to GO when you mentioned Sprott and others in the gold community a while back, and then there are your laments at your kids being the ones who are going to do the big Gold Score, and hopes they spend it wisely.  You sure sound like a long term precious yellow bull for sure.  ;D :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:

Not to worry, GO understands, and will continue throwing NUGGETS, pun intended, of Golden wisdom your way.  At least your not a make believe doomer.  :exp-grin: :exp-grin: :exp-grin:


                                                     
Auric Goldfinger
Auric Goldfinger
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 09:28:17 AM by Golden Oxen »

Offline MKing

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 10:21:58 AM »
You can't con me MKing, your a closet Gold Bug.  :icon_mrgreen:

Might have been. For a second. Once. But then it didn't work out so well compared to other forms of investments so..oh well..lesson learned.

Quote from: Golden Oxen
You tipped your hand to GO when you mentioned Sprott and others in the gold community a while back, and then there are your laments at your kids being the ones who are going to do the big Gold Score, and hopes they spend it wisely.

Didn't realize I referenced Sprott, but I do remember mentioning my kids are the ones who will get the WOO HOO!! moment when I drop dead. Unless I drop dead and the wife converts it all into some opportunity to hunt down a bigger and better deal.

Quote from: Golden Oxen
You sure sound like a long term precious yellow bull for sure.  ;D :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:

Well, certainly I am at about the 30+ year mark in my gold holdings, so sure, I'm a long term investor for sure!!

Quote from: Golden Oxen
Not to worry, GO understands, and will continue throwing NUGGETS, pun intended, of Golden wisdom your way.  At least your not a make believe doomer.  :exp-grin: :exp-grin: :exp-grin:

Doom isn't some fantasy scenario to me, it is concrete, predictable and certain as death. The WHEN part might be a little tricky, but yep, I am as doomer as it gets because it is a certainty. There are others trying to make every little thing into doom…please…I am into certainty and in this universe, what we humans do to each other is nothing compared to what is just waiting out there for us. Not sure how well hoarding gold is going to help anyone, but it keeps us preoccupied until the REAL fun begins.





Flood basalts are also great. Like the price of gold declining 3% can even compete, or even the market falling 20%.

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/columbia-river-flood-basalts
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Offline roamer

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2015, 10:43:37 AM »
Also need to add in the blowback generated from this sort of shit.  It will only breed more, mirrors our tactics in the middle east too well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-iraq-i-raided-insurgents-in-virginia-the-police-raided-me/2015/07/24/2e114e54-2b02-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

You know, I thought this was a completely unreasonable thing that you referenced, then I read the entire article. Yeah, he was unarmed, but in the middle of a negotiation because he had threatened the cops, they knew he had a gun, and the guy who pulled the trigger thought he moved. Now, he might NOT have moved, or moved enough to register with some, but this wasn't just some cop blowing away some unarmed innocent walking down the street in beach shorts and sandals, any more than Treyvon Martin was some scrawny child innocently walking home with some skittles.

Dude got raided for being a suspected squatter in his own apartment.  As we creep towards that type of militarization there will be blowback.  That is quite an unreasonable approach regardless of how suspect acts under raid.

Offline MKing

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Re: Why All the Shooters?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2015, 11:02:12 AM »
Also need to add in the blowback generated from this sort of shit.  It will only breed more, mirrors our tactics in the middle east too well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-iraq-i-raided-insurgents-in-virginia-the-police-raided-me/2015/07/24/2e114e54-2b02-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

You know, I thought this was a completely unreasonable thing that you referenced, then I read the entire article. Yeah, he was unarmed, but in the middle of a negotiation because he had threatened the cops, they knew he had a gun, and the guy who pulled the trigger thought he moved. Now, he might NOT have moved, or moved enough to register with some, but this wasn't just some cop blowing away some unarmed innocent walking down the street in beach shorts and sandals, any more than Treyvon Martin was some scrawny child innocently walking home with some skittles.

Dude got raided for being a suspected squatter in his own apartment.  As we creep towards that type of militarization there will be blowback.  That is quite an unreasonable approach regardless of how suspect acts under raid.

I apologize Roamer, I was referring to the other one, I might have even screwed up the thread it was in. I'm pretty sure I read it from a link you provided though, "unarmed man shot dead by cops" something to that effect?

This link, I read it as well, and it is completely reasonable. This militarization routine has gone too far, Ferguson is a perfect example of it as well, and I wonder how long it will take before citizens begin booby trapping their entrances to put more than a little fear into ANYONE who just decides to come busting in.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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