AuthorTopic: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse  (Read 1775 times)

Offline RE

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Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« on: July 31, 2015, 02:42:42 AM »


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Published on the Doomstead Diner on July 31, 2015



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Recently James Hansen, considered by many to be the #1 Climate Scientist in the world published an academic article of over 100 pages in length where he delineates scientifc evidence for ongoing and rapidly accelerating Climate Change.  Said climat change seems likely to cause a hefty Sea Level Rise a good deal faster than the Century or more it was originally predicted to take.  According to Jim, we could se Big Shities like Miami and New York going under inside 30 years if we don't "change our ways".



Now, it's pretty clear in low lying cities like Miami that this is already today's problem, not tomorrow's problem.  With every High Tide and just a little extra push from a light breeze, the Miami streets start flooding and the sewage systems backup.



http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/miami-flooding.jpg



You would think with this occurring on virtually a monthly basis, people would get a clue and start moving out of Miami, but alas no.  The Florida State Goobermint itself is in Denial about the problem, because of course the last thing they want to do is panic the residents, watch the real estate market and tax revenues tank and lose their jobs!  So they jawbone about great new techno infrastructure projects, they'll build a big Dyke around FL, just like those industrious Little Dutch Boys did in Holland!  Precisely where they will get the $trillions necessary to try and pull off this stunt is anybody's guess.  Certainly Florida Pols have no clue as to where the money will come form.



http://www1.rfi.fr/actuen/images/108/netherlands_dikes_floods_432.jpgNeedless to say, as impressive as that infrasturcture is in the Netherlands, they will be going under also here in the not too distant future.



So Sea Level Rise is clearly a pretty significant problem we have to face here, but it's sure not the only problem coming down the pipe, or even on our doorstep already!



Inland, far away from the beaches and well above Sea Level, Las Vegas and Phoenix have the OPPOSITE problem, the water isn't arriving, it's LEAVING!  Fresh water in this case also, which is kind of important for people since they need it to DRINK, not to mention grow their AG crops.



http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2015/04/22/lake-mead-1.jpgLake Mead provides the most obvious problem here on this front, but it of course is the Tip of the Proverbial Iceberg.  The same problem is hitting about every CA Resevoir, and then the entire Ogallalla Aquifer is being drained as well, which provides the AG water for the "breadbasket" of the FSoA, the midwester Corn, Soybeabs and Wheat fields which provide the bulk of the food for not just Fat Amerikans, but also for the many places we ship Food Aid too.  When this food production system goes down, it's not "Houston, we've got a Problem" or even  "Vancouver! Vancouver! This is IT!", it's "World, we've got a problem, and this is IT!"



Same drought and food production problems of course are occurring in many places, Sao Paolo in Brasil, India hit by this and of course the entire region of MENA, which generally has been undergoing progressive desertification for a few thousand years of AG civilizations in the neighborhood.



http://www.techandinnovationdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/FukushimaPic.jpgAs if that wasn't enough here, we also have that small problem of over 400 Nuke Puke reactors sprinkled around the Globe, with their associated Spent Fuel Ponds usually housed right on the property because nobody can figure out precisely what they want to do with the Puke.



Each and every one of these plants is a Fukushima Daichi 1 waiting to happen, and it doesn't take a Tsunami or Earthquake to do it, all it takes is for the Electrical Grid to go down for a long enough time and for the cooling systems for the spent fuel ponds to quit.  So in all likelihood, unless we get off the pot here and start cleaning up this mess very soon, pretty much the entire world will have Thyroid Cancer rates similar to those in Fukushima Prefecture already.  That won't necessarily kill off everybody immediately, but it's not going to make life any more pleasant either.



Meanwhile in the Newz every day we have those other small problems of the Monetary system imploding and all those little WARS people seem to find a need to start, be they our own set of Neocon assholes like Dick Cheney or ISIS Insaniacs like Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.  The fucking Ecoomistas and Banksters running the monetary system are either CLUELESS or just plain EVIL, and the folks in charge of the War Machines on all sides are all incontrovertibly EVIL, so this obviously is not a very good situation to be in.  If your leadership is either Clueless or Evil, you got real problemss here.



Did I mention that little ENERGY problem we have ongoing here?  Those millions of years of Fossil Fuels we have been harvesting up and burning are running kind of thin on a Global level, while at the same the Population seems to still be increasing and more people every day aspire to living the Happy Motoring lifestyles that Amerikans and Europeans got in the post WWII years.  theGreat Myth was this "prosperity" could be delivered to everyone, but it cannot be, because of course the resources and the planet are Finite.  You can't have Infinite Growth on a Finite World, but that is what the politicians and the economista promise to the population on a daily basis.



So, clearly we have just a SHIT LOAD of problems here, but at the same time when you get scientists like James Hansen telling you Sea Level rise is gonna be a big problem and Religious leaders like the Pope delivering a similar message, the focus of discussions tends to be on these things.  Is Sea Level Rise really the biggest problem we face, and on what timeline?  What do we really need to be concerned with, and when?  Prioritization is necessary.



In an effort to get some kind of handle on this, I dropped on a Survey allowing Kollapsniks to Rank the problems we are facing, so we can focus on the most pressing problmes which will hit the first and/or the hardest.  Basically, you do not need to worry about Sea Level Rise if Nuclear War will kill you first.  You don't need to worry about Food Production problems if you simply cannot acquire food because the monetary system has collapsed and the distribution sytem fails.



I will say the preliminary results from this survey surprised me a bit, given I know which websites the respondents frequent and what is HOT in Collapse Newz lately.  I expected Sea Level Rise to come up a lot higher in the survey than it did, in fact the only thing currently ranked lower is the threat of Terrorism, which if you polled the general public and not Kollapsniks would liekly come up much higher on the list.



I also was a little surprised that in fact most Kollapniks do grasp that the biggest near term problem we face is only tangentially related to the climate issues, it's the monetary system.  You can't fix any of the other problems (if they are even "fixable" in any sense) if you can't fix the monetary system.  It's the glue that holds everything else together in this type of civilization.



Here are current Stats from the Survey:



survey-says



TAKE THE SURVEY HERE



(survey results updated 8/2/2015)




























































































































































































 

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

Responses

Weighted Average

Monetary System Collapse

24

(33.8%)


11

(15.49%)


8

(11.27%)


6

(8.45%)


4

(5.63%)


3

(4.23%)


5

(7.04%)


1

(1.41%)


71

3.72 / 12

Food Production

10

(14.08%)


9

(12.68%)


9

(12.68%)


15

(21.13%)


8

(11.27%)


10

(14.08%)


2

(2.82%)


4

(5.63%)


71

4.25 / 12

Geopolitical Conflict/War

3

(4.23%)


8

(11.27%)


13

(18.31%)


11

(15.49%)


8

(11.27%)


9

(12.68%)


6

(8.45%)


4

(5.63%)


71

5.06 / 12

Drought

4

(5.63%)


5

(7.04%)


8

(11.27%)


11

(15.49%)


11

(15.49%)


5

(7.04%)


16

(22.54%)


3

(4.23%)


71

5.39 / 12

Human Population Overshoot

9

(12.68%)


5

(7.04%)


8

(11.27%)


3

(4.23%)


11

(15.49%)


5

(7.04%)


8

(11.27%)


3

(4.23%)


71

5.75 / 12

Fossil Fuel Energy Depletion

5

(7.04%)


12

(16.9%)


6

(8.45%)


4

(5.63%)


2

(2.82%)


11

(15.49%)


6

(8.45%)


10

(14.08%)


71

5.82 / 12

Loss of Liberty/Police State

5

(7.04%)


5

(7.04%)


5

(7.04%)


6

(8.45%)


2

(2.82%)


10

(14.08%)


7

(9.86%)


9

(12.68%)


71

6.49 / 12

Atmospheric Carbon Content

9

(12.68%)


6

(8.45%)


2

(2.82%)


6

(8.45%)


4

(5.63%)


5

(7.04%)


3

(4.23%)


9

(12.68%)


71

6.65 / 12

Population Migrations/Refugees

1

(1.41%)


4

(5.63%)


2

(2.82%)


5

(7.04%)


7

(9.86%)


5

(7.04%)


8

(11.27%)


10

(14.08%)


71

7.55 / 12

Nuclear Power Plants/Spent Fuel

1

(1.41%)


4

(5.63%)


5

(7.04%)


4

(5.63%)


7

(9.86%)


3

(4.23%)


6

(8.45%)


2

(2.82%)


71

7.94 / 12

Sea Level Rise

0

(0%)


2

(2.82%)


5

(7.04%)


0

(0%)


4

(5.63%)


5

(7.04%)


3

(4.23%)


14

(19.72%)


71

8.52 / 12

Terrorism

0

(0%)


0

(0%)


0

(0%)


0

(0%)


3

(4.23%)


0

(0%)


1

(1.41%)


2

(2.82%)


71

10.86 / 12


Oveerall, the Climate problems of Sea Level Rise and Atmospheric Carbon Content tend to be rated lower by Kollapsnkiks than things like Monetary System Collapse and Nuclear War.  For fairly obvious reasons here, the latter two are more likely to wreak havoc with the lives of people in the nearer term than the latter two are.  They are of course related phenomena, but it doesn't make much sense to be worrying about Sea Level Rise if you think a Thermonuclear Bomb will be dropped on your head before the Ocean rolls into you neighborhood.



It may occur that Homo Saps and a good percentage of the currently extant life forms on the planet will go Extinct in relatively short order.  For most people though, they have more pressing problems to worry about, like where they will get money to buy their next meal or pay their rent?  Will there be Water coming out of the tap tomorrow or not?  I suspect people in Sao Paolo worry about this a good deal more than they worry about when the Sea Level will rise enough and Copacabana Beach has to be evacuated and all the Brasileiros have to move inland to Sao Paolo, which sadly of course no longer exists because 30 years earlier all the Paolistas moved to Rio!  lol.



At this point, how much Carbon is geting jacked into the atmosphere is a moot point.  The planet is clearly going to significanlty change in overall climate.  Now the thing to do is to pioritize the problems and figure out how to negotiat this clusterfuck, for as long as you can.



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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 03:34:29 AM »
Excellent article, big problems from this arising, no doubt about it.

This acidification of the oceans that Surly often mentions is quite troubling as well.

Another horrifying thing going on with the oceans is this coral reef disappearing. watched a show on Discover a few years ago with some real big head scientists explaining what a total horror this was for ocean life and mankind. Scared me shitless and depressed the hell out of me.

It's tough not to be a doomer, especially a lite doomer like me. Starting to think it's time to rethink that position.  :icon_scratch:

Offline Eddie

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 05:47:54 AM »
I also was a little surprised that in fact most Kollapniks do grasp that the biggest near term problem we face is only tangentially related to the climate issues, it's the monetary system.  You can't fix any of the other problems (if they are even "fixable" in any sense) if you can't fix the monetary system.  It's the glue that holds everything else together in this type of civilization.

I just can't rate that too high, because it isn't, by itself, a problem of the same magnitude as PO or climate change, or population overshoot. It's a feature of collapse, and it's a big thing, but it isn't on the same level in terms of consequences.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 11:53:18 AM »
I also was a little surprised that in fact most Kollapniks do grasp that the biggest near term problem we face is only tangentially related to the climate issues, it's the monetary system.  You can't fix any of the other problems (if they are even "fixable" in any sense) if you can't fix the monetary system.  It's the glue that holds everything else together in this type of civilization.

I just can't rate that too high, because it isn't, by itself, a problem of the same magnitude as PO or climate change, or population overshoot. It's a feature of collapse, and it's a big thing, but it isn't on the same level in terms of consequences.

I don't agree there, first off because the monetary system ties together so many other systems. "Money makes the world go round".

Second, the problems with the monetary system will hit first, although specific areas are being hit by drought already.

Third, it's the problems with the monetary system that lead to the Wars.  The Great Depression led to WWII and the rise of Nazi Germany.  Both China and Russia are in even worse condition than the FSoA is.

Peak Oil is the underlying cause of this of course, because there isn't enough available energy for a population of 7B to keep growing, while at the same time climate change reduces the amount of arable land for growing food for that population.  As proxy for energy though, the money problems are the leading indicator and most pressing problem.  The survey results match my own choices pretty closely in fact.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2015, 12:06:59 PM »
he problems with the monetary system will hit first

I agree completely on this one, but if energy and resources weren't the problem, we could just have the usual reset that's happened over and over, and it would all begin again. Hence the saying "it's only money." This time is different from all previous times, though, as you well know.

Another good survey would be to take those same collapse issues and put them in timeline order. It'd be a different order, for sure.

it's the problems with the monetary system that lead to the Wars.  The Great Depression led to WWII and the rise of Nazi Germany.  Both China and Russia are in even worse condition than the FSoA is.

Can't argue with that....but climate change trumps even global thermonuclear war as an extinction level event. And wars have been fought since time immemorial, and humans just keep having babies and getting more numerous anyway.

Climate change and overpopulation are the two tops, got to be. Resource depletion next. Money just can't top any of those in my book. jmho.

I will miss money, don't get me wrong.

 
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2015, 01:02:21 PM »
he problems with the monetary system will hit first

I agree completely on this one, but if energy and resources weren't the problem, we could just have the usual reset that's happened over and over, and it would all begin again. Hence the saying "it's only money." This time is different from all previous times, though, as you well know.

Yes, but again in terms of prioritization, since the monetary issues hit first and cause so many other problems, you have to deal with them first.  It's why you are buying Gold Coins.

Another good survey would be to take those same collapse issues and put them in timeline order. It'd be a different order, for sure.

I have 3 Surveys already done for the next 3 weeks.  :icon_sunny:

I can do a timeline order on this one also, although since some things like drought and war are already occuring on a location by location basis, it's hard to do a straight timeline.  Depends where you are.


it's the problems with the monetary system that lead to the Wars.  The Great Depression led to WWII and the rise of Nazi Germany.  Both China and Russia are in even worse condition than the FSoA is.

Can't argue with that....but climate change trumps even global thermonuclear war as an extinction level event. And wars have been fought since time immemorial, and humans just keep having babies and getting more numerous anyway.

The poll is not about an ELE.  It's just about the different problems we are facing up to here coming down the pipe.  Extinction may be the result, but which problems do you need to tackle first to try to avoid extinction?

Climate change and overpopulation are the two tops, got to be. Resource depletion next. Money just can't top any of those in my book. jmho.

Well, they are probably the BIGGEST problems long term, but not the most pressing ones RIGHT NOW.

I will miss money, don't get me wrong.

I already miss it.  :(
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Offline azozeo

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2015, 02:13:49 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ou_irbB9fyc&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Ou_irbB9fyc&fs=1</a>
Oh, let the sun beat down upon my face
And stars fill my dream
Iím a traveler of both time and space
To be where I have been
To sit with elders of the gentle race
This world has seldom seen
They talk of days for which they sit and wait
All will be revealed

Offline azozeo

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2015, 02:19:38 PM »
I missed taking the survey, however my numero uno pressing engagement
to kissing my sweet ass goodbye is listed below. Oxie has been made privy
to this gentleman's work last week.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/bQDeKV7tHtA&amp;list=PLp79wLlx8oyiUrQKyTpPSoK_STInd0RgV&amp;index=2&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/bQDeKV7tHtA&amp;list=PLp79wLlx8oyiUrQKyTpPSoK_STInd0RgV&amp;index=2&fs=1</a>
Oh, let the sun beat down upon my face
And stars fill my dream
Iím a traveler of both time and space
To be where I have been
To sit with elders of the gentle race
This world has seldom seen
They talk of days for which they sit and wait
All will be revealed

Offline RE

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 02:32:03 PM »
I missed taking the survey, however my numero uno pressing engagement
to kissing my sweet ass goodbye is listed below. Oxie has been made privy
to this gentleman's work last week.

Survey is still open.  They stay up for 9 days on the FREE account.

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Offline RE

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Re: Survey: The Most Pressing Problems of Collapse
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 06:05:09 PM »
Survey has been updated with the latest tallies.  There are now 64 Respondents to the survey.  Rankings haven't changed much.

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