AuthorTopic: Another Day Another Shooter  (Read 28950 times)

Offline MKing

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2015, 07:16:58 PM »
What is it with college campuses?

Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
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Offline RE

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2015, 08:18:52 PM »
While most of the shooters fit a similar psychological profile, I don't think that really helps much in terms of prevention.  They still will be able to get hold of a gun on the black market even if they were pre-diagnosed and banned from owning one legally.

The fact they are young males for the most part means they fit in well on a College Campus, so they can walk around without seeming out of the ordinary until they pull the gun.  That's why most of the shootings happen on college campuses.

Now, the solution of having everyone packing heat would likely get the perp shot after himself shooting at most 2 people, which seems like a good result, but it has problems.  The fact is that a lot of college age guys get drunk and get in fights.  So even though you would reduce the number of people a psycho could take out, you would increase the number of instances of drunken guys shooting each other.

The one thing you can say for sure is there will be more of these instances as collapse progresses.  There are more psychologically disturbed people all the time, higher rates of autism etc.  Trying to confiscate the guns of all the people out there who have them would cause its own backlash.  Plenty of gun owners won't give up their weapons without a fight of course.  It also would take a constitutional ammendment, since the right to bear arms is still in there.

In the near term, if I was the parent of a college age student attending class, I would buy him/her Kevlar and Pepper spray.  The kevlar would protect long enough for the potential victim to spray the perp, and then he could be disarmed.

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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2015, 08:28:28 PM »
It is a very complex problem RE. Prescription drugs I'm told are another major factor that the piggy drug outfits mange to keep quiet in the news about these crazies.

You are totally correct about guns, if outlawed they will be as hard to get as booze was during the depression, when everyone was shit faced.

A wonderful black market will open up for the gangsters and pot dealers who are out of work since pot and gambling were legalized.


Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2015, 09:24:11 PM »
GO

Psychoactive prescription drugs are preventing a lot of people doing things like this,  they need to be kept sedated. OTOH theres a problem with the FDA approval process being corrupted by pharmacos with blatant conflicts of interest and this is causing newer drugs with worse side effects in too many people not being acknowledged. Doctors are taught to interpret the statistics by the pharmacos as if they need that. What happens when people  feel worse not better is the dose is increased because most doctors believe the glossy advertising that the prescription pad is the solution to everything. I think only about half of patients or even less respond positively to pychotropic meds,  but are then going to take them the rest of their life. Few stop once they  start. For most of them they cant cope without the meds and will be a nightmare to be around. Some might attack and even kill the people with them, but usually will present for help themself or their family will call 911.

For the ones feeling worse on medication which  is probably 20%, (and about 30% just lethargic and flat with no real change in mood) a few are not just suicidal but homicidal and occasionally kill someone,  but the incidence is not considered statistically  significant. To me it isnt important that only one mother with PND drowns her  baby in a city or state in a year as an adverse reaction to an antidepressant,  but the overall proportion of people not improving or feeling worse cam not be denied as statistically insignificant. This goes on anyway and u already  know why.

Dont  use quote to reply to this post as i plan to  delete it tomorrow,  thanks.
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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2015, 03:02:47 AM »
I got it Uncle. Thanks

Yes, drugs can go either way with some individuals. I have no expertise in the matter at all, just pointed out that many who study these people think they have been crazed by drugs and live in a world of fantasy and demons and such from them. As usual you point out the fact they are very helpful to many folks. Just tryng to point out that guns aren't their problem, it's them and their messed up heads.

They would most likely lob hand grenades into a group, or molotov cocktails, sticks of dynamite, drive a truck into a crowd at a beach if I remember correctly one looney did a while back. They are the problem, not the weapon they choose is my point.

I get weary of people trying to take my rights away from me, every time one of the crazies goes berserk. Even though I have never owned a weapon, or have any plans to do so currently. Our rights under our constitution are precious and are taken from us by an out of control government at every opportunity.

Offline RE

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2015, 06:27:10 AM »
I got it Uncle. Thanks

Yes, drugs can go either way with some individuals.

"Guns don't kill people.  Shrinks prescribing Pharmaceutical anti-depressants kill people."

LOL.

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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2015, 09:38:35 AM »
In 2009 the warnings went onto/into the SSRI boxes in us, eu, uk, japan, canada and oz after a meta analysis turned up a figure of about125 in 100 thousand cases which meant that the "less than one in a thousand" excuse no longer applied.

What im saying is that the number of cases where someone someone actually attempts a homicidal act vs about 30% of people who feel better using it isnt the issue. The issue is the number who experience homicidal ideation and dont act, suicidal ideation, hostility and agression, and just feel worse. Then theres tremor, tachycardia, rashes, even blurred vision and other side effects of both using and withdrawing from the drugs. The pharmacos are covered by calling it a SMALL NUMBER and advising that there should be close monitoring. The close monitoring is not happening most of the time because of the idea its a small number, it isnt.

Add the fact that it is recognised that children should not be prescribed ssri due to these side effects and that warning is more definitive. However the brain of an 18 to 24 yo male is still in important ways not fully developed and plastic, also more impulsive, but you dont see any caution applied there.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 09:40:41 AM by Uncle Bob »
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Offline RE

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2015, 09:55:50 AM »
In 2009 the warnings went onto/into the SSRI boxes in us, eu, uk, japan, canada and oz after a meta analysis turned up a figure of about125 in 100 thousand cases which meant that the "less than one in a thousand" excuse no longer applied.

What im saying is that the number of cases where someone someone actually attempts a homicidal act vs about 30% of people who feel better using it isnt the issue. The issue is the number who experience homicidal ideation and dont act, suicidal ideation, hostility and agression, and just feel worse. Then theres tremor, tachycardia, rashes, even blurred vision and other side effects of both using and withdrawing from the drugs. The pharmacos are covered by calling it a SMALL NUMBER and advising that there should be close monitoring. The close monitoring is not happening most of the time because of the idea its a small number, it isnt.

Add the fact that it is recognised that children should not be prescribed ssri due to these side effects and that warning is more definitive. However the brain of an 18 to 24 yo male is still in important ways not fully developed and plastic, also more impulsive, but you dont see any caution applied there.

The bottom line here is you cannot medicate Unhappy People out of their Unhappiness if the Unhappiness has a real life cause to it.  Life just SUCKS for a lot of people now, so they manifest it with violent actions.

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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2015, 10:10:50 AM »
Quote
The bottom line here is you cannot medicate Unhappy People out of their Unhappiness if the Unhappiness has a real life cause to it.  Life just SUCKS for a lot of people now, so they manifest it with violent actions.

Actually as I think of the world population and the over 300 million people in our country alone, it's amazing there isn't more of it.

Especially when you consider the economic situation, the uber rich flaunting their wealth, and all the friggin drugs and booze out there.

Just saying.   :-\

Offline RE

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2015, 11:19:24 AM »
Quote
The bottom line here is you cannot medicate Unhappy People out of their Unhappiness if the Unhappiness has a real life cause to it.  Life just SUCKS for a lot of people now, so they manifest it with violent actions.

Actually as I think of the world population and the over 300 million people in our country alone, it's amazing there isn't more of it.

Especially when you consider the economic situation, the uber rich flaunting their wealth, and all the friggin drugs and booze out there.

Just saying.   :-\

Have Patience.  There is more coming to a theater near you.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2015, 11:32:52 AM »
It's interesting to consider whether the shooter phenomenon has more to do with the rise in autism, the rise in cognitive dissonance among people who can't access the good life they see on TV, or social isolation due to the breakdowns in family and community life. I expect all of those play.

I have taken care of many, many autistic kids in my work, and they do present an enigma. They seem to live in another reality of their own making, and to them it's just as valid as what we call the real world. But most of the ones I have know are not what I would consider likely to act out mass murder. They don't tend to be functional enough to plan and carry out that kind of attack.

And the lesser affected ones, the spectrum kids, mostly seem to live in their own heads and not care much about what's going on on a societal level.

Whereas schizophrenics are perfectly capable of doing anything their voices tell them to do...just sayin.

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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Another Day Another Shooter
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2015, 03:20:20 PM »
Eddie, I dont think autism is a factor in a massacre  except indirectly as a contributor in 3 ways...

1 social exclusion. He may really want to fit in but cant. That was Rogers reason and a big reason in the usual profile too. I watched about 10 minutes of his home made videos and theres an instance hes wandering around a park obsessing about himself that he used to go there as a child then tries to have a conversation with a young woman with a dog.. now that should be ok .. use the dog as a topic to start talking and get the  girls number etc,  But u see it just goes awkward and creepy and hence all the other obsessing about being good looking and well dressed and having a new bmw but the girls going out with others. Adam Lanza we dont know if not being socially functional bothered him because for the  profoundly autistic it doesnt seem to borher them at all. Harper-Mercer i think it probably did bother him as he had profiles on one of those social media pages and a dating site but clearly had no clue what was appropriate to leave out.

2. A fixation/obsession. Can be anything, usually something introduced. Can sometimes change to something else but not often, wheras with aspergers its more like an intense interest in a subject or thing that can come and go when its run its course and something new comes along.

Two permanent fixations that dont threaten anyone else i can think of are water and audio cassettes. Thre was a boy who had a precocious memory for maps and directions but was happier than a pig in poop if he could go for a swim for a reward or pour water from one cup to another etc. Another kid less profound and in school was obsessed with audio cassettes, the old ones you had to rewind and fast forward. He spent his time in class drawing "tapeys" that were audio cassettes with arms and legs and making up storeys about them involving "tape recorder". He couldnt stay on topic of anything else for long.

Other fixations could lead to danger to others. There was a 17 year old who had a fixation on sex since several years prior happened to see some pornography, this was very unfortunate. If an obsession is with shooting as we know with Adam Lanza his mother had a lot of weapons and took him shooting,  or Harper-Mercer was obsessed with the IRA then taken to the extreme someone can get killed.

3. Not registering emotions/expressions, where the  mildly affected dont recognise the meaning of a small smirk and the fully autistic dont recognise a broad smile but do understand if explained. That could make the whole thing seem like a game and not real,  but if they are fully unable to relate they probably also can hardly look after themself and dont go anywhere unfamiliar anyway.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 03:24:14 PM by Uncle Bob »
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Offline RE

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How Mass Shooters Get Their Guns
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2015, 01:11:28 AM »
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/how_roseburg_newtown_and_other_mass_shooters_got_their_guns.html

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Offline RE

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Attacker stabs five on California university campus
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2015, 11:38:07 PM »
I'm waiting now for a College Campus Chainsaw Massacre.


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http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/4/attacker-stabs-five-on-california-university-campus.html

Attacker stabs five on California university campus


Police shoot and kill student at University of California, Merced, after he stabbed five people on campus
November 4, 2015 4:15PM ET

A student stabbed and wounded five people as classes got underway at a rural university campus in central California before police shot and killed him, authorities said Wednesday.

All those attacked at the University of California, Merced, were conscious when paramedics reached them, Assistant Vice Chancellor Patti Waid said. Two victims were taken by helicopter to hospitals, but their conditions were not immediately known, officials said.

The three others had injuries that were minor enough that they could be treated on campus, Waid said. Campus officials say some, but not all, of the victims are students.

They said the assailant was a student but had not confirmed his identity or provided a motive for the attack. Officials said they were still working out a timeline of events leading up to the stabbings, and it wasn't clear how the attack played out.

University senior Phil Coba, a student government representative, said numerous students told him that the stabbings started inside a classroom and continued outside before campus police shot and killed the attacker.

Authorities have not confirmed those accounts and have said the attack occurred outside a building as students went in to class shortly after 8 a.m.

Student Alex Lopez was heading to class when he realized something was wrong on campus.

"I was listening to a podcast, and there was a break in talking, and I just hear a gunshot," he said.

He said police and first responders flooded the scene.

"You see this stuff all over the news and stuff and you see it happen to all these other schools," but you don't expect it to happen at your school, said Lopez, 21.

The school, surrounded largely by farmland, was mostly deserted Wednesday afternoon. More than 6,600 students are enrolled at the university about 120 miles south of Sacramento in the farm-rich San Joaquin Valley.

The campus in the city of Merced opened a decade ago and is the newest college in the University of California system.

It was erected in the state's farm belt in response to the burgeoning enrollment in the nine other University of California campuses. Regents also felt the mainly agricultural region was unrepresented by higher education.

The Associated Press

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Offline MKing

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Re: Attacker stabs five on California university campus
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2015, 01:36:40 PM »
I'm waiting now for a College Campus Chainsaw Massacre.


RE

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/4/attacker-stabs-five-on-california-university-campus.html

Attacker stabs five on California university campus


Police shoot and kill student at University of California, Merced, after he stabbed five people on campus
November 4, 2015 4:15PM ET


So now the legislatively required "no one will defend themselves here" hunting preserves have attracted the attention of just general kooks. Great.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
-Dalai Lama

 

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