AuthorTopic: Hang 'em High  (Read 9188 times)

Offline RE

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Hang 'em High
« on: July 09, 2012, 01:25:23 AM »
New Feature Article now up on the Diner Blog, Hang 'em High.

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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 04:51:24 AM »
English common law has already been replaced.  The law of the land hasn't applied for almost 150 years in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  (I'm not shouting, that is the proper name for the corporation that is in charge.)  What has replaced it is the law of the sea, the law of international trade.

We would do well to go back to English common law.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 05:14:56 AM »
English common law has already been replaced.  The law of the land hasn't applied for almost 150 years in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  (I'm not shouting, that is the proper name for the corporation that is in charge.)  What has replaced it is the law of the sea, the law of international trade.

We would do well to go back to English common law.

Yes, that argument has some validity, along with the argument that our current Goobermint operates under various emergency Executive Powers rather than real control by the Political structure of CONgress.  Certainly the Military is not under the control of CONgress or the POTUS, if it ever was which I doubt.

Nevertheless, English Common Law clearly never worked to develop a Just Society in Jolly Old England, where if you read the endless posting from Slogger John Ward who keyboards pretty much as fast as I do the Bollocks are even WORSE over on that side of the Pond than they are here.

Far as Principles go here in Justice, I am fine with any Code that gets the job DONE of dispensing Justice which serves the People and Mother Earth. Our current Justice System does not DO that. You MUST have Punishments to fit the Crimes!

What Punishment Fits the Crime of turning half of Japan at LEAST into a DEATH Zone? What Punishment fits the crime of Pauperizing an entire COUNTRY like Greece? What Punishment fits the crime of robbing Generations into the future of any chance at a decent life?

Only ONE Punishment fits that Crime.

HANG 'EM HIGH!


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Offline EndIsNigh

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 05:34:21 AM »
I agree in the importance and value of justice.  Once upon a time, scumbags of epic proportion could be banished from the tribe and that may have served as adequate punishment.  Perhaps worse than death.  But that's not feasible any more for a number of reasons, not only because they're outside the influence of our tribe.

What say you to the risks of such discussion?


Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 06:08:36 AM »
I agree in the importance and value of justice.  Once upon a time, scumbags of epic proportion could be banished from the tribe and that may have served as adequate punishment.  Perhaps worse than death.  But that's not feasible any more for a number of reasons, not only because they're outside the influence of our tribe.

What say you to the risks of such discussion?

Well, as I have said before, if you simply stripped the Elite of their Wealth & Power, most of them would likely commit Sepukku and off themselves anyhow.  There isn't a big difference here in this regard, they end up DEAD either way.

In fact, even people of only medium status in society based on their Wealth will make the choice to off themselves rather than live a life of poverty.  So in this sense, the Guillotine and the Noose are not all that essential.

Where the Guillotine and Noose are important is as LESSONS to other people that certain behaviors are so unacceptable that your community will not just SHUN you, they will ROLL YOUR HEAD off the rest of your body for it.

Shunning works in small communities,  really it is as good as a Death Sentence for most.  Shunning does not work too well in large disconnected societies like we have now though. Everybody shuns everybody in these societies already, and so long as you have the right Connections to the Credit Creation Biz, you really never can be stripped of your wealth or power.

So it will remain true also until the Failure of the Conduits. When that occurs, the Playing Field is Levelled. This would not be a good time to hold onto ANY claim to Wealth of any sort.  Give it all away before that day comes, because to hold onto it is your DEATH SENTENCE.

Nothing truly belongs to you on this Earth. You can only keep for a while what you can protect and defend and carry with you. The rest is a Chimera, it belongs not to you but to Mother Earth and to God.  Those who attempt to keep more than this during the Time of Great Dieing will go to the Great Beyond, one way or the other, by their own hand or by the inexorable working of Eternal Justice.

So it will be done.

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Offline WHD

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 10:05:04 AM »
Quote
Where the Guillotine and Noose are important is as LESSONS to other people that certain behaviors are so unacceptable that your community will not just SHUN you, they will ROLL YOUR HEAD off the rest of your body for it.

Unless of course they start rolling out the guillotine for things like smokin pot, or writing blog posts about peak oil, or loppin' off elite heads

Quote
Nothing truly belongs to you on this Earth. You can only keep for a while what you can protect and defend and carry with you. The rest is a Chimera, it belongs not to you but to Mother Earth and to God.  Those who attempt to keep more than this during the Time of Great Dieing will go to the Great Beyond, one way or the other, by their own hand or by the inexorable working of Eternal Justice.

I think the piece needed a bit more of this. The first sentence esp.

Offline Tao Jonesing

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 08:11:50 PM »
Nice rant.

Where I agree with you is that most people fail to see the evil because of its banality.  We simply don't understand how the banksters are murdering thousands of people a day because the correlation between their evil and the homocides s is obscured to prevent people from seeing the causation.

I get it, though.

Where I disagree is to move suddenly from what we have today into full-blown Inquisition mode.  That seems arbitrary and capricious, the opposite of justice.  If what you seek is legitimacy, then you need to temper your approach to allow for the fact that you're changing the rules on everybody after the fact.  If you don't care about legitimacy, you'll be the next tyrant the oppressed string up.



Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 12:05:15 AM »
Unless of course they start rolling out the guillotine for things like smokin pot, or writing blog posts about peak oil, or loppin' off elite heads

This is why it is important before the Auto da Fe begins to carefully define what the High Crimes Against Humanity actually are, so hopefully you can keep the number of Heads Turned Bowling Balls to a reasonable number, like maybe 1%.

You also need to carefully choose the Chief Justice and Lord High Executioner carefully.  A person of High Integrity who holds carefully to his Principles and has a good Sense of Humor is an Ideal Choice.  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote
Quote
Nothing truly belongs to you on this Earth. You can only keep for a while what you can protect and defend and carry with you. The rest is a Chimera, it belongs not to you but to Mother Earth and to God.  Those who attempt to keep more than this during the Time of Great Dieing will go to the Great Beyond, one way or the other, by their own hand or by the inexorable working of Eternal Justice.

I think the piece needed a bit more of this. The first sentence esp.

Waxing a bit Poetic there I was.  I could have done more I suppose but it was getting late and I wanted to get the article up before heading off to the Dream World.  Another day perhaps.

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Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 12:49:40 AM »
Nice rant.

Where I agree with you is that most people fail to see the evil because of its banality.  We simply don't understand how the banksters are murdering thousands of people a day because the correlation between their evil and the homocides s is obscured to prevent people from seeing the causation.

The Corporation is the Primary Means by which the Responsibility for Individual Acts of Evil or collective AoEs are Obscured first,and then essentially rendered Impotent from a Justice POV.

We generally do agree that Monsanto is an EVIL Corporation. However currently, about the best that could be done under current Laws would be to Sue Monsanto, make the Damages so Big the Corp is forced outta Biz, but you KNOW the top Owners andmanagers of Monsanto are all Hedged on this one with CDS, so they don't get Bankrupted when Monsanto does.  Then in the Firesale Liquidation of all Monsanto "Assets",the SAME folks go back in and buy it all up again for Pennies on the Dollar.  The LIABILITIES Monsanto had are all foisted onto the backof J6P through Da Goobermint.

While at least most of us will agree on the GUILT of Monsanto, it's much less possible to get most to agree on WHO in Monsanto should be held ACCOUNTABLE? Is it JUST the CEO and Top Executives? What about all the Scientists they employ to research up and develop Poisonous Foods?  What about the Investors who buy Monsanto Stock? What about the Banksters who Underwrite Monsanto Commercial Paper? Yet it is all these VERY SAME peoplewho will go reform up a NEW Monsanto, so if you do not hold them PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE for the actions of the Corporation as a whole, the Cancer still exists. The "New Monsanto" may even have the very same NAME, just like the "New" GM.

How DEEP do you go in such a Purge?  What is sufficient culpability to warrant the ULTIMATE Punishment of the Inquisition? These questions need to be worked out before you start Rolling Heads. I do have ideas on this of course.  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote
Where I disagree is to move suddenly from what we have today into full-blown Inquisition mode.  That seems arbitrary and capricious, the opposite of justice.  If what you seek is legitimacy, then you need to temper your approach to allow for the fact that you're changing the rules on everybody after the fact.  If you don't care about legitimacy, you'll be the next tyrant the oppressed string up.

I can see various means to make a transition.   The most obvious is to provide a Grace Period during which individuals could step forward and ADMIT GUILT prior to being called up by the Auto da Fe. Anyone who did this might be spared the Ultimate Punishment and merely be required to spend the rest of their lives Cleaning Cesspools. Those who will not Admit Guilt would be then Tried, and if found Guilty of High Crimes Against Humanity, be handed the appropriate Consequence for their Actions. Which in the case of Lloyd Blankfein is probably an extremely long and painful Execution shown nightly on Reality TV for an entire Season.

Legitimacy of course is important, and a general Consensus must be reached by J6P before this is Undertaken.  In fairly short order here though, I do not think it will be all that difficult to achieve such Consensus and Legitamacy.

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Offline g

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2012, 04:40:24 AM »
RE Quote "I can see various means to make a transition.   The most obvious is to provide a Grace Period during which individuals could step forward and ADMIT GUILT prior to being called up by the Auto da Fe. Anyone who did this might be spared the Ultimate Punishment and merely be required to spend the rest of their lives Cleaning Cesspools. Those who will not Admit Guilt would be then Tried, and if found Guilty of High Crimes Against Humanity, be handed the appropriate Consequence for their Actions. Which in the case of Lloyd Blankfein is probably an extremely long and painful Execution shown nightly on Reality TV for an entire Season."

Excellent idea. Your mercy in allowing a stepping forward and admitting of guilt and begging for a life in the cesspools is admirable and noted.
In the case of dear LB how about a nightly seasonal entitled Lloyd on the Rack. We could have a contest or quiz show of contestants who had been placed in debtor's prison, and the winner would be allowed to turn the old screw a bit to much music, clapping and fanfare. His prize would be a 10 million dollar check from Lloyd's estate. That one could run a few seasons from the size of the estate and would turn LB into a spitting image of good old Ichabod Crane. A much improved creation me thinks.  :icon_sunny:

Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 05:21:45 AM »
Excellent idea. Your mercy in allowing a stepping forward and admitting of guilt and begging for a life in the cesspools is admirable and noted.
In the case of dear LB how about a nightly seasonal entitled Lloyd on the Rack. We could have a contest or quiz show of contestants who had been placed in debtor's prison, and the winner would be allowed to turn the old screw a bit to much music, clapping and fanfare. His prize would be a 10 million dollar check from Lloyd's estate. That one could run a few seasons from the size of the estate and would turn LB into a spitting image of good old Ichabod Crane. A much improved creation me thinks.  :icon_sunny:

Despite the endless comparisons made between my Inquisition construct and Uncle Joe Stalin or even Cousin Pol Pot, the 'Inquisition" here really is not the same.  I am TRYING, in a process oriented way over many years now of discussion on these topics to develop a comprehensive and real set of good CRITERIA for what constitutes Crimes Against Humanity and how to JUSTLY mete out the appropriate Punishments.

It really does BUG me that people so often misunderstand this and immediately jump on the Hitler/Mao/Stalin analogies, but at this point I am used to it.  Making all the necessary distinctions in culpability level, which has a lot to do with access to the levers of Power at the highest levels is hard to do. Essential though if the Justice is to be Fair and not Capricious.

I am also not against Mercy even for the Highest Crimes if someone will Admit Guilt and show complete Penitence by living a life of Poverty in Service to all he Wronged.  I do doubt however that such as Lloyd Blankfein would ever be so truly Penintent.

Insofar as Punishments you can come up with for the Unrepentant and Truly Guilty, the Entertainment Value is tremendous and might pay off at least a part of the thefts here.  The "Bankster Execution Reality TV Show" is a GUARANTEED Nielsen Ratings Chart Topper.

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Offline WHD

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 05:32:04 AM »
RE,

Quote
Those who will not Admit Guilt would be then Tried, and if found Guilty of High Crimes Against Humanity, be handed the appropriate Consequence for their Actions. Which in the case of Lloyd Blankfein is probably an extremely long and painful Execution shown nightly on Reality TV for an entire Season....

to develop a comprehensive and real set of good CRITERIA for what constitutes Crimes Against Humanity and how to JUSTLY mete out the appropriate Punishments....

It really does BUG me that people so often misunderstand this and immediately jump on the Hitler/Mao/Stalin analogies.....

The "Bankster Execution Reality TV Show" is a GUARANTEED Nielsen Ratings Chart Topper....

I think if we start reveling in the killing of people, then Hitler/Mao/Stalin is what we will become.


Offline EndIsNigh

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 05:34:37 AM »
Quote
I think if we start reveling in the killing of people, then Hitler/Mao/Stalin is what we will become.

This has been my objection also.  I'm not so sure about the reality TV show idea, I mean, do we really need another reality TV show?  I don't watch the idiot box and wouldn't turn it on, even for this.

Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 05:54:11 AM »

I think if we start reveling in the killing of people, then Hitler/Mao/Stalin is what we will become.

You are making a Jump here that WITNESSING EXECUTIONS is precisely the same thing as "Reveling" in them. There is certain amount of the "Rubbernecking" phenomenon involved, just like on the highway when you see a real bad accident you slow down to takea good look at all the carnage.

It does however TEACH YOU A LESSON every timeyouseeone of those wrecks, and if you learn from it hopefully you do NOT drive Drunk or weave your way through the traffic to get to your destination faster than the traffic will allow.

Nobody sees ANYBODY get really PUNISHED for Wrongdoing anymore.  The worst these guys get is a few years in a cushy Federal Pen for White Collar Criminals. Even THAT hardly occurs nowadays.

I Guarantee it, if Kids were watching Bankster Scumbags being executed every day, they would be a LOT less likely to wanna grow uptobe a Bankster Scumbag.

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Offline g

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 05:56:44 AM »
WHD Quote"I think if we start reveling in the killing of people, then Hitler/Mao/Stalin is what we will become."

Perhaps, not as bad though methinks.
That is why I choose the more humane punishment of just stretching them a measly foot or two. They claim a good Stretch has great benefit in the learning department and usually cures the patient of his bad behavioral problems.         :icon_study:


 

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