AuthorTopic: Hang 'em High  (Read 8991 times)

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2012, 03:31:09 PM »
Excuse me for being a little impatient. What is the difference between all the people who refuse to see and are too afraid to step out of the status quo and all of the very bright, good hearted, well intentioned people on all of these web sights we all go to every day seeking answers? It's all about which mice will bell the cat. And its still just talk.

Offline EndIsNigh

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2012, 04:36:42 PM »
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Excuse me for being a little impatient. What is the difference between all the people who refuse to see and are too afraid to step out of the status quo and all of the very bright, good hearted, well intentioned people on all of these web sights we all go to every day seeking answers? It's all about which mice will bell the cat. And its still just talk.

I share the frustration but where do we start?  How many people do you know in your immediate vicinity that would support you in talk, let alone action?  Who is willing to put it all on the line when circumstances are still largely comfortable?  Are you familiar with Deep Green Resistance?  Derrick Jensen and DGR talk about the need to take action, to stop asking them nicely, but I haven't seen anything but talk from them either.  I wonder what they're cooking up.  Perhaps we'll see something soon.

Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2012, 04:54:00 PM »
I share the frustration but where do we start?  How many people do you know in your immediate vicinity that would support you in talk, let alone action?  Who is willing to put it all on the line when circumstances are still largely comfortable?  Are you familiar with Deep Green Resistance?  Derrick Jensen and DGR talk about the need to take action, to stop asking them nicely, but I haven't seen anything but talk from them either.  I wonder what they're cooking up.  Perhaps we'll see something soon.

Generally speaking, there has to be an incipient movement going on in the population at large, and then a TRIPPING EVENT that turns normally Peaceful People very, VERY ANGRY. Something like a Fruit Vendor Self-Immolating.

This has not occurred here. YET. There has beenatleast one self-immolation reported,Ithinkit was in MA in front of a Bank, but the Popular Movement is not large enough here yet for this to be a TE.

The Political Conventions this summer could change that.

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Offline agelbert

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2012, 05:52:42 PM »
Karpatok,
I understand your busting at the seams anger and frustration at all the hand wringing that doesn't stop the juggernaut of predatory psychos running this clusterfuck, euphemistically labelled civilization, into species extinction.

Why don't people get off their fat asses from the keyboard follies and go shoot somebody already!!?

As you have pointed out on several occasions, most people are more concerned with their own skin than their principles. That is certainly a part of the problem, but that's not the most important part of the problem.

Let's start with the basics. Everybody likes to have access to food, shelter and a support network to care for them when they are sick, injured or old. These minimum requirements are used both as a carrot and a stick by modern tyrants well versed in brainfuck. For people to depart from these comfort zones requires a lot of searing life experiences. The U.S. Declaration of Independence is an excellent example of how people keep molding themselves into pretzels in order to continue some semblance of a normal life until they just can't take it any more.
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Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Since those days, the plutocrats have learned much about how to manipulate the masses. In the old days, the tyrants needed us for fleecing and slavery. It was good business to keep us around, even at subsistence levels. Now there is a new, far more sinister, twist in the psycho mindset of TPTB. They think there are too many of us around. Those Cassandras like yourself and many here that have been warning of TSHTF scenario must figure into their calculations the incredible capacity for humans to deny the obvious that the monsters in charge have come to the conclusion that THEY DON"T NEED US ANY MORE AND WANT MOST OF US TO DIE. The current modus operandi of the plutocrats is to push, push, push with fraudulent wars, finance and blame the victim horseshit. Please understand, the monsters WANT CAOS. They are DELIBERATELY goading us. They don't need more money. They own most of everything as it is right now. So, as cathartic and appealing as the thoughts of high-energy aggressive actions involving blowing the fuckers away are, I'm sorry to say the "fuckers" are way ahead of you.

So, if overt violence is a handy trap being laid for the spirited heroes that are first to charge the bastions of piggery, what other options do we have? Are we just going to sit here and let the pigs turn us into target practice for those who don't make it and S&M sexual toys for the rich perverts for those who do? HELL NO!

My dear Karpatok, when I first answered a query of yours about drop derivative calculus on high velocity ammunition in modern warfare, I explained that the basic idea in warfare is to HOLD the place, not to simply TAKE it. If you can't HOLD it, you had better not try to TAKE it because, no matter how successful your initial forays will be, you have set yourself up for failure.

What then, hit teams in the Mossad tradition? Nope. Why do you think the e-mails, twitter and forums are spied on? THAT's what they are looking for and will stop them through various means. Even if Mother Mary's Nun Convent develops a Ninja hit team to take out the banking CEOs on Wall Street, after they hit the first one, they'll be shut down. The decentralized cell structure has also proven to be a tool that terrorizes the masses, rather than the plutocrats so that's out too.

Can we all just head fo the hills? Nope. The "hills" are contaminated and, even if we can doomstead our way into subsistence or better, the automated mini drone technology can pick us off if we become too much of a nuisance. It is conceivable for the psychos (See Texas game ranches that Cheney loved and extrapolate into the future) to HUNT us as a type of exotic game. They might even use helicopters like the Palin monster when she shot wolves. The plutocrats don't play fair and abhore level playing fields. They do love to play perverse, inhuman and monstrous games with us. I think you agree but the overwhelming majority of people still do not get it.
 
What we quixotic and somewhat pathetic keyboard jockeys like myself and others are trying to do is a kind of massive sit down strike. We want to stop the wheels of industry non-violently by strangling the profits that power the plutocrats. This requires education and countering the plutocrat media PR that we are "conspiracy wackos" and nihilists that wish to ruin the good times for everyone. The reverse is true but Orwell lives in the media and we have to fight this with words. Shooting press whores is no good because for every George Will that you take out, 10 Koch clones will replace them. As the real agenda of the plutocrats gets more in the face of the people, it is my hope that by keeping people informed of how the plutocrats plan ahead, the masses will behave prudently and starve the beast. The tyrants want you to lose your head; don't do it. Keep pushing a lower carbon footprint, a debt free life and an abhorance to the very idea of "interest" on a debt. That's how these bastards obtained and keep their power. More and more people that act as lackeys for the 1% are getting hit by the evil policies in effect. They read this stuff too and I hope a lot of them wake up.

finally, let me tell you that at West Point in boxing class they explained to us that winning the match is not just about knowing the best footwork or punch sequence. One of the best ways to win a fight is to get the other guy angry. Once he gets angry, he can't think as well and you can set him up with a several right jabs so he lowers his guard on his right side and you can smack him with a left hook. Get em' mad and you win.

I hope this helps. I want you also to know that I enjoyed immensely your smack down of Ashvin. As far as I am concerned, regardless of your beliefs, your behavior is far more golden rule than many that claim to be Christian because you firmly believe that, were you doing what the plutocrats are doing, you too would deserve to get offed. You've got a great heart. Don't let the bastards get the better of you.

All that said, if I have no other choice, I will engage in violence to protect the innocent. For now, I think we have other options. Of course, I also support preparing for the knockdown and learning wilderness survival techniques. I just do not want to see a charismatic dictator knock off the bad guys and then morf into a bad guy himself. I want an egalitarian horizontal government structure as per the Occupy Wall Street folks formula. Nothing else will get humanity out of this greed death spiral.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 06:28:11 PM by agelbert »
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline Tao Jonesing

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2012, 06:04:39 PM »
The Corporation is the Primary Means by which the Responsibility for Individual Acts of Evil or collective AoEs are Obscured first,and then essentially rendered Impotent from a Justice POV.

The corporation is the original moral hazard.  If you want to end moral hazard very quickly, make laws that look corporate personhood with respect to certain crimes and treat all shareholders as jointly and severally liable, putting all of their wealth at risk instead of limiting their exposure to the amount of their bet.

People need to realize that the behavior of CEOs, top management, and Boards of Directors are fully sanctioned by the big institutional investors, who are the only shareholders who count.  Spend some time digging into who holds shares in the largest, skankiest publicly traded corporations, and you'll find the same set of actors every time.  Even companies like Fidelity, who ostensibly are investing other people's money, are actually controlling the votes of the shares they hold in those people's names. 


Offline WHD

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2012, 06:11:27 PM »
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OK, Agelbert, Mr. Shakespeare has said everything significant about what's wrong and what needs to be done. But I didn't read where he explained how this is to be accomplished. Does he or anybody else think that these shits are going to just give up their power and choke-hold because they are directed to? Or by whom? Asked politely by their victims? Or WHAT? In the meantime with very little time left, TALK,TALK,TALK,TALK,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH!

Karpatok,

No revolution or transformation was ever accomplished, without talking about it first. The talk out there is building, a little brighter every day, pushing the boundaries of what can be said. We are approaching a boiling point, hence the work of the current Hegemon to eviscerate the Constitution, the buildup by DHS for internal warfare. Patience, it will come. You may wake up one morning, probably in 2012, and everything about the world as we know it will have changed. Such things cannot be rushed, they unfold in their own mysterious ways. Not a soul the day before the market crash in 2008 said, tomorrow, the market will fall. Not a soul alive today knows the time of TEOTWAWKI - unless of course, there is a FF operation planned, to initiate global Martial Law, as an attempted preemption of revolution. Either way, there's no preempting that, or rushing TEOTWAWKI, but only preparing oneself to be as ready as one can be for such a thing.

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2012, 06:53:27 PM »
Hi, Hunter: Now I'm talking to you on two threads at once so pardon me if I get confused and become the troll Ross is always accusing me of being. Anyway, what difference does it make? OK, if you are sensing that something is growing as you peruse the internet, great. Of course it has to build through discussion and I am just as scared shitless as anybody. I don't want it to end in a bang and I don't want it to end in a whimper either. I can't believe that just a few years ago I knew nothing and when I really try to take it in my heart just breaks like it is shot threw and I weep and I want to scream because I feel so betrayed at the very core. How could they, HOW COULD THEY. All I ever wanted to do was to play music and write poetry and be in nature with animals. Just as you described that you did, I went to the fields and dreamed in the clouds and the blue skies. I lay in the honeysuckle hammocks on the old wire fences and I went to the creeks with my dog and cleaned out the little pools for the new tadpoles. I saved the rabbits and the chipmunks and the baby birds from my cats  and helped my father, the sower of seeds in the garden.I know nothing about war because I was privileged and protected by somebody else. We need leaders. I don't see how it can be won without somebody leading. Horizontal is very ideal, but even in a hora there's a leader. You may think it's a round dance but there's always a leader. And in Calus, which is just another form of fertilizing Morris, there are still leaders even if they are unobtrusive. The only way that I know to be ready is to leave here and go back to the mountains that I'm named for. I see that this is incoherent, maybe I'll do better next time.

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2012, 08:04:07 PM »
Adelbert: Thanks for so much time and input. I hear you and think about what you say. I already think that I don't have much of a footprint. I gave up my truck, I take the bus, I eat only organic, I buy nothing but what I absolutely have to have like food. I have run one small airconditioner in this heat but if I go back to the mountains there won't be any of that. You have obviously been doing this for a relatively long time. As they say in the dance groups, you're one of the "OLD BOYS". That's supposed to be a compliment coming from a culture that still has respect for the experienced old hands. I agree about not wanting some charismatic leader to dethrone those in power and become a dictator himself, but reading Surly about the hash up of the OWs, how can you have the blind leading the blind? Give me CHE any day and I'll runaway and join the fray. Yes, I'm still a romantic through all the tears, and I have to believe in somebody, that they are decent and know what they are doing. Sorry, but I'm not thoroughly Modern Millie. I don't see male chauvinism every whip stitch and even when I do I can tolerate a certain amount. That's why I really did look up to Stoneleigh until, well, you know. Anyway, Ashvin in his latest post, talking about skinning babies by their siblings has really gone scary off the deep end. So you never know about people and it pays to have some skepticism which I'm kind of late in developing.

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2012, 08:12:55 PM »
Agelbert: I apologize, I called you Adelbert.  I'll try not to do it again.

Offline WHD

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2012, 08:31:56 PM »
Quote
How could they, HOW COULD THEY.

Karpatok,

That's it, right there. Two things that every human, if they hope to awaken to the truth of who they are, have to pass through: GRIEF and ANGER.

Grief at how we have been lied to, for what has been done to the earth, for what has been done to us. And anger, for the same reason. We have to dive deep down and see how far it goes, and drain those reservoirs. I'll be saying more about that in my next blog post. I might use that quote, if that's ok with you.

Offline agelbert

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2012, 01:14:40 AM »
Karpatok,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. And don't sweat the small stuff in the name. :icon_mrgreen:

That handle I have, by the way, means "anger bright" in German.  :icon_mrgreen:

No, I'm not German but there are a few of them knocking about in my genetic closet a few centuries ago I believe.

Take this mess we are in one day at a time. William Hunter Duncan and others here are giving very sound advice, as far as I am concerned. Think of us as a support network. We all need some encouragement in these dark days. And don't mind the modern day Pharisee Ashvin; I may be wrong but he strikes me as a rather rigid personality. That type carries giant chips on their shoulder(s) and overreacts to criticism. Don't worry about it. Maybe he'll wake up some day and lighten up. Maybe not. It's not that he lacks intelligence; it's that he lives in his own straight jacket. But enough of that.

I love cats and thank you for being kind to them (and keeping them from eating the baby birds too).  :icon_sunny:
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2012, 02:36:55 AM »
I agree about not wanting some charismatic leader to dethrone those in power and become a dictator himself, but reading Surly about the hash up of the OWs, how can you have the blind leading the blind? Give me CHE any day and I'll runaway and join the fray.

A Leader or more likely Leaders will emerge once the Conduits Fail.  When the Grand Sytem Fails, there will be someone who Steps Up to the Plate in your Neighborhood. Military Commander of a National Guard Troop perhaps,Sheriff or Police Chief Perhaps, Gang Leader perhaps, Preacher Perhaps, Playwright Perhaps.  You know, Vaclav Havel was a Playwright before the Czech Uprising. Or perhaps in this time it will be a Blogger.  Over in Russia, there is a Blogger Alexei Navalny who Stands Tall against Putin and can bring tens or hundreds of thousands into a square to listen.

Quote
Anti-corruption campaigner and top blogger Alexei Navalny is one of the pivotal figures leading protests and activism to challenge the results of Russia's 4 December parliamentary elections.

He is also arguably the only major opposition figure to emerge in Russia in the past five years. And he owes his political prominence almost exclusively to his activity as blogger.

So who knows where the Leaders will come from, but they WILL COME. They will come in varieties as well, with likely more Pol Pots than Ghandis and you can either just HOPE that you get a Ghandi, or you can PICK ONE you got some confidence in and HOPE he doesn't flip out on you. Or if you REALLY have a lot of Hubris, you can put yourself up there also.  All up for Grabs once the Conduits Fail.

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Offline g

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2012, 04:34:28 AM »
OK, Agelbert, Mr. Shakespeare has said everything significant about what's wrong and what needs to be done. But I didn't read where he explained how this is to be accomplished. Does he or anybody else think that these shits are going to just give up their power and choke-hold because they are directed to? Or by whom? Asked politely by their victims? Or WHAT? In the meantime with very little time left, TALK,TALK,TALK,TALK,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH!
K is correct. Everybody pisses and moans about these rotten bastards, and no one does a thing to stop them or punish them. Just the thought of that scuzzball Corzine walking around free without a care in the world turns my stomach. Re's Orkin Man solution is sounding less and less preposterous as the rape and pillaging of the 99% continues unabated.   :exp-angry:

Offline RE

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Re: Hang 'em High
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2012, 04:53:02 AM »
Re's Orkin Man solution is sounding less and less preposterous as the rape and pillaging of the 99% continues unabated.   :exp-angry:

Hell with the Orkin Man. We need the Outlaw Josey Wales now to come down from Heaven.


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