AuthorTopic: Down the Rabbit Hole  (Read 22987 times)

Offline Tao Jonesing

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2012, 11:11:50 PM »
Tao: You are usually quite eloquent but in this case I don't know to what the "yep"refers and also how the elites have changed the form of the abyss. Care to elaborate?                                                                                                                                                                                          GO: You seem to have dumbed down and modified my post to some extent. I am not just speaking about "taking responsibility for our actions" but about psychological projection taking place against a background of lack of integration of the personality or the ability to accept all the parts of ourselves without having to disown them. In other words, a whole psyche versus a split or fractured one where only good and righteousness resides within and anything unacceptable such as sexuality for example is cast out and projected elsewhere.

The two parts of my response to your comment are unrelated.  The first part disagrees with the notion in your opening sentence that we've tried to pull ourselves out of the abyss.  We have been distracted from doing so and repeatedly encouraged to replace one set of myths with another.  The second part wholeheartedly agrees with everything you said after the first sentence.  That's why I separated out the first sentence for comment.

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2012, 11:23:32 PM »
 Thank you Tao. And having thought more on the subject I tend to agree with your assessment of my first sentence but with this reservation; that I find humankind complicit in its situation and not the victim.

Offline el Gallinazo

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 03:40:52 PM »
Back from a quick sojourn into the belly of the beast to visit the Apple store before I move in the next couple of weeks to southern Mexico.

Let me state briefly what the primary purpose of writing this article was.  I was not, from my perspective, trying to discuss whether humans are inherently evil enough without outside agent provocateurs to commit all these atrocities through recorded history (or what purports to be history. And if we are evil enough to do it on our own, while that might add some evidence to doing it on our own, it certainly doesn't prove it.  Anymore than a card shark might be skilled enough to clean everyone else out without resorting to cheating means that he didn't cheat.  After all, why leave this shit to chance?)  Though I did mention these topics just to point out where the most innocuous initial forays down the rabbit hole can lead one. 

Those who remember my writings from TAE know that one year ago, beyond mentioning repeatedly the most obvious no-brainer fact that 9/11 was a false flag inside job (for which I was constantly reprimanded by Ilargi), my ideas were pretty conventional to what they have become.   I was hoping to give an example of what got me started down this rabbit hole.  And that excellent example was the work that Martyn Stubbs did at great though self-rewarding effort over years.  Forgetting about the so called authorities, human or otherwise, what that work shows beyond a reasonable doubt is that things in orbit beyond our atmosphere are very strange indeed and not what we are told.  Trying to figure out what that hidden NASA footage signifies is, IMHO, a worthy comment thread and one that I would have found very interesting to follow and participate in.   It also shows that at the astronaut and immediate controller level of NASA, they are deliberately hiding very interesting information from us.  Whether that hiding was, as Stubbs comically put it, similar to a parent hiding Easter eggs form his four-year-old, or rather just arrogant sloppiness is an open question.  I had hoped that the article, centered around Stubbs' work would inspire a few commenters to access some new data of high quality, and this would result in a thoughtful comment thread reflecting on this data.  But what we got was really just a rehash and sparring of everyone's preconceived opinions and not the very smallest peep about Stubs' interview and footage.  This probably indicates that everyone was simply "too busy" and too enlightened to learn something new.  Whatever.

As Leonard Cohen sang it:

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows


Offline RE

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2012, 04:10:06 PM »
As Leonard Cohen sang it:

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GUfS8LyeUyM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/GUfS8LyeUyM</a>

You gotta use the Embed button and Embed Code El G

RE
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Offline EndIsNigh

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2012, 05:12:50 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to explain your intent El G.  While I didn't comment, I too observed the lack of discussion of the video you presented.  For what it's worth, I did watch 2 of (I think) 6 videos before getting sidetracked.  I intend to view the remaining videos, but having come across Stubbs before, am not completely ignorant to his findings.  What those findings represent is anyone's guess.  I would be interested in seeing more evidence that might shed some light on the nature of the objects he filmed, if you've found any.

Offline RE

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Down the Rabbit Hole: Leonard Cohen Feature Video
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2012, 05:49:24 PM »
I made the Leonard Cohen "Everybody Knows" Video the Blog Homepage Feature Video.  He's even better in 2008 as an Old Guy singing this tune then he was when he was a Young Guy.

RE
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Offline Tao Jonesing

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2012, 06:45:27 PM »
I had hoped that the article, centered around Stubbs' work would inspire a few commenters to access some new data of high quality, and this would result in a thoughtful comment thread reflecting on this data.  But what we got was really just a rehash and sparring of everyone's preconceived opinions and not the very smallest peep about Stubs' interview and footage.  This probably indicates that everyone was simply "too busy" and too enlightened to learn something new.  Whatever.


Sorry to disappoint you, el G.   It's not that I was too busy or too enlightened to learn something new, I just have other things that I want to learn first, and I only have so much time.  I also have a personal aversion to clicking on and watching internet videos that allegedly prove something.  I've just verified too many instances of these kinds of videos shading and/or fabricating "the truth."  For whatever reason, when I find an argument or statement of fact compelling, I feel the need to verify it for myself, which can distract me for days from other things I want to learn.

That's why I focused on the nature of your presentation rather than on its content.

Offline WHD

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2012, 07:23:30 PM »
Quote
But what we got was really just a rehash and sparring of everyone's preconceived opinions and not the very smallest peep about Stubs' interview and footage.  This probably indicates that everyone was simply "too busy" and too enlightened to learn something new.  Whatever.

El G,

I watched all eight videos. I have never been a believer in Aliens. I feel a little as I did recently, however, looking into the evidence on both sides about 9/11, propelled there by the current warnings about a new FF op planned perhaps for the Olympics (I think Dec 21 is more likely.) I can't refute what I saw. What am I to do with that? About the same as I've always felt about aliens. If all that is out there, particularly as seen in the tether video, WHERE THE FUCK IS THE HELP?

Offline el Gallinazo

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2012, 02:50:50 PM »
Ashvin

I am neither a scholar nor an academic.  When I try to fit the reality pieces into that great metaphysical jigsaw puzzle, I do not place too much weight on which group espoused a certain idea and which group held it heretical, other than  that groups I consider to be basically evil (a bit more on this later) require a double scrutiny.  But even then I do not necessarily throw out all their concepts.  A good disinformationalist will compose his output to be at least 75% truthful into which he will insert his deceits.  Sort of like hiding a pill in the hamburger for your dog.  And a really skilled one will insert deliciously valuable nuggets in the truth compartment, not just truths you can pick up at WalMart on sale.

I read some of Blavatsky's work about 40 years ago.  I thought it was interesting but don't remember much.  But when I looked at her personal life, I found it rather distasteful.  Even if I were looking for some sort of guru, I would be as likely to take on one with a tarnished personal life as I would a 350 pounder as an obesity physician.  She reminds me in some ways of the other Russian bitch who followed her out of Mother Russia, Ayn Rand.  As to the Gnostics, I don't have a huge knowledge base about them either.  I know that a lot of the ideas I have picked up recently as tentatively valid, which you ascribe to the Gnostics, go back to the Vedas which are dated at 5000 and more years ago, well before the historical Gnostics.

But I don't really judge a religion by its ideas anyway, as I am not in the market.  I prefer to construct my own as I go along, picking quality pieces out of the junkyard of life.  And when I evaluate a religion I really don't care much about their metaphysics.   After all, one person's heresy is another person's premium kibble.  The only thing I care about is their historical atrocity record.  Have these religions committed genocide, torture, and crimes against humanity?  The rest to me is irrelevant.  The track record of the Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are blacker than the ace of spades in this respect.  So as a non-scholar and a rather lazy person, have the Gnostics and their distantly related  ideological descendants such as the Cathars (before they were wiped out man, woman, and child by the RCC Inquisition) committed organized atrocities, and if they have, could you give me some credible links where this is laid out?  This is not a rhetorical question.  I will check out your links.  But please don't waste my time with what you consider heresy.  I am interested in murder and torture on a grand organized scale.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 02:54:33 PM by el Gallinazo »

Online Ashvin

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2012, 05:05:06 PM »
El G,

Thanks for your considered response. I made it 5 out of 8 of Stubb's account before being convinced that what he discovered in the footage was a genuine UFO phenomenon, and, in fact, I believe a large portion of sightings within the atmosphere are genuine also. His account fits in nicely with my already established metaphysics, so for now I take it as being supportive of that worldview, or at the very least, neutral. And I do believe this stuff is being "hid" from the public like a parent hides Easter eggs from a child.

Quote
As to the Gnostics, I don't have a huge knowledge base about them either.  I know that a lot of the ideas I have picked up recently as tentatively valid, which you ascribe to the Gnostics, go back to the Vedas which are dated at 5000 and more years ago, well before the historical Gnostics.

I can't say that I am an expert on Gnosticism or anything like that, but the main idea is that "gnosis" or human knowledge/evolution will be the key to our salvation, rather than faith in God. In that sense, there are similarities between new age spirituality, gnosticism and theosophy, which are all deeply rooted in Ancient Eastern spiritual traditions, such as those of Hinduism and Buddhism. However, I think they are a very distorted versions of those traditions, as well as distorted versions of Christianity. Ultimately, they are all trying to destroy God's redemptive plan for humanity by convincing us that the God described in ALL of these traditions does not exist. I can't say that Gnostic Christianity started out this way, but it certainly contained the core elements of deceit needed by later traditions such as Theosophy.

In many ways, salvation in Hinduism and Buddhism is fundamentally related to salvation in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It is about destroying the ego and unconditionally surrendering yourself to THE higher power. My discussions with Ka on another thread helped me explore this relationship further. James Ratsinger, professor of theology at USC (and Eastern Orthodox Christian), makes a good analogy - these faiths are like trails on a mountain that all lead to the same Summit (Jesus and the Father), except some trails are much more straightforward than others, and a few may be more prone to leading you off in the wrong direction if you are not very careful and attentive to where you are going. This also fits in with my view that Eastern mysticism can potentially be dangerous for those who just follow whatever spiritual entities they happen to come in contact with.

Quote
The track record of the Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are blacker than the ace of spades in this respect.  So as a non-scholar and a rather lazy person, have the Gnostics and their distantly related  ideological descendants such as the Cathars (before they were wiped out man, woman, and child by the RCC Inquisition) committed organized atrocities, and if they have, could you give me some credible links where this is laid out?  This is not a rhetorical question.  I will check out your links.  But please don't waste my time with what you consider heresy.  I am interested in murder and torture on a grand organized scale.

Well, I think what you are calling the track record of the Abrahamic religions, I am calling the track record of the Catholic Church (whose very existence is not supported by the Bible), Gnosticism and all derivative esoteric spiritual movements. I believe these are the institutions and secret societies that have really been calling the shots for the better part of at least the last 1500 years. How could any of the atrocities of the Inquisition, Crusades, anti-Semitic persecutions, "terrorist acts", etc. be attributed to the teachings of Jesus Christ, who is obviously a VERY important figure in Christianity and Islam (the Bible and Koran), and should have been the prophesied Messiah of Judaism in the OT (according to me). I don't believe that they can.
 
A good place to start with this alternate religious history is a film series produced by Chris Pinto, called Secret Mysteries of America's Beginnings. It comes in three 2.5  hour parts, though. I will embed Volume 1 "The New Atlantis" here if anyone wants to get started on it. It's probably better to call it an "alternate alternate" version, because it casts a lot of doubt on the common alternative view of religious history in New Age circles, perhaps summed up best by the Zeitgest "documentaries". We have to remember that, according to Judeo-Christian theology, from the very beginning of humanity, Satan has tailored his deceptions to contain A LOT of truths or half-truths about the nature of God and humanity.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/8zYM-unUeNY?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/8zYM-unUeNY?feature=player_detailpage</a>

Pinto is a Christian, but the argument presented is meticulous and objective. Frankly, I was surprised a documentary about this subject matter could ever be so objective and could reference so many different sources.

If you can't deal with this sort of length, then I will try to dig up some written material on the same issues.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 05:25:19 PM by Ashvin »

Offline JoeP

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2012, 05:17:20 PM »
Quote from: LG
I don't really judge a religion by its ideas anyway, as I am not in the market.  I prefer to construct my own as I go along, picking quality pieces out of the junkyard of life.

IMO - This is worthy of consideration for "quote ot he month".
 
There has been a lot of religious discussion round here lately.  I think I'm probably somewhere between RE's Pantheism snd LG's Big Toeism.
   
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 05:50:39 PM by JoeP »
just my straight shooting honest opinion

Online Ashvin

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2012, 08:20:59 PM »
Oh, here is another good documentary that summarizes a lot of these issues. I believe it touches on Gnosticism and Eastern spiritual traditions for a little while.

YouTube description:

Quote
Full length feature of Age of Deceit: Fallen Angels and the New World Order. A biblical look at the history of fallen angels and it's relationship to the New World Order and the new age movement. Topics covered are the fall of mankind, the pre-flood world as Atlantis, the new age through theosophy, the fallen angels and their origin of planting the seeds to society, UFO's, ET's and abduction cases, demonic possession, channeling, and more. All of these things are explained and predicted in the bible. Featured on the video are Chris White of http://youtube.com/knowwheretorun1984 and http://nowheretorunradio.com as well as Douglas Hamp, author of "Corrupting the Image: Angels, Aliens and the Antichrist" at http://douglashamp.com.

NOTE: Alice Bailey quote at 27 min is taken out of context and is my mistake. Bailey is describing Nazi ideology, however it does not change her views on Christianity as a whole.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/wjmFm8PIz8M?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/wjmFm8PIz8M?feature=player_detailpage</a>

Offline el Gallinazo

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2012, 02:31:12 PM »
Quote
So as a non-scholar and a rather lazy person, have the Gnostics and their distantly related  ideological descendants such as the Cathars (before they were wiped out man, woman, and child by the RCC Inquisition) committed organized atrocities, and if they have, could you give me some credible links where this is laid out?  This is not a rhetorical question.  I will check out your links.  But please don't waste my time with what you consider heresy.  I am interested in murder and torture on a grand organized scale.

Online Ashvin

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2012, 04:07:39 PM »
Quote
So as a non-scholar and a rather lazy person, have the Gnostics and their distantly related  ideological descendants such as the Cathars (before they were wiped out man, woman, and child by the RCC Inquisition) committed organized atrocities, and if they have, could you give me some credible links where this is laid out?  This is not a rhetorical question.  I will check out your links.  But please don't waste my time with what you consider heresy.  I am interested in murder and torture on a grand organized scale.

Was the torture and genocide perpetrated by Hitler's Third Reich grand and organized enough for you? We're obviously talking about at least 6 million European Jews here, and millions more gypsies, homosexuals and "inferior" people. It may interest you to know that Adolf kept a copy of "The Secret Doctrine" (Blavatsky) at his bedside and was an ardent Theosophist, which in turn borrowed much of its metaphysics from Gnosticism. 

What you have to understand here is that Gnostic Christianity influenced A LOT of esoteric spiritual movements over the centuries. This includes the more secretive movements/societies such as Rosicrucianism, the Freemasons, the Hellfire Club, the Illuminati and Theosophy, but also the much more notable ones such as Roman and European Catholicism, the Jesuits, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, etc.

Between these groups, you will find just about all of the organized atrocities you care to find. They will include atrocities by people who claim to be Christian, as well as people who claim to be Jews (and perhaps are in the racial sense), such as the Rothschilds, who ended up aiding in the persecution and slaughtering of racial and religious Jews. Sir Francis Bacon would have called himself a Christian, and his colonization scheme for the New World ended up slaughtering countless numbers of indigenous people.

When you dig deeper, though, you find out that he was a Rosicrucian and Freemason, with the former deriving its name from the fusion of Pagan mystery religions (Rose) and Christianity (Cross). It is very similar to what Gnosticism did, except the Gnostics borrowed heavily from Eastern spiritual traditions. We also find this fusion running through the legacy of the Catholic Church. We see that the most powerful people in both Western Europe and America have been Rosicrucians or Freemasons or some derivative of the two.

All of this and much more was presented in the first video series I posted in a systematic, objective and academic manner (a lot of referenced sources). That one doesn't even adopt a Biblical Christian perspective or quote scripture. In fact, many of the sources are historical people that were highly influential within these movements, such as Blavatsky, Bailey, Manly P Hall, Albert Pike, etc, as well as people within the organizations today (or when the video was made), such as Lord Northampton, who is arguably the most powerful Freemason in the world. It just takes a good amount of time to watch and digest.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 04:13:07 PM by Ashvin »

Offline el Gallinazo

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Re: Down the Rabbit Hole
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2012, 03:33:54 PM »
Blavatsky derived far more of her belief system from Vedic Hinduism and Tibetan Buddhism than from the Gnostics.  I did run through a couple of the Gnostic Gospels Apocrypha recently, mainly curious because David Icke claimed that the 4D beings whom he refers to as Reptilians were labeled the Archons by the Gnostics, who regarded them as evil and destructive.  I found their belief system to be ethical and gentle.  That you can equate every vicious Illuminati and Vatican front group and Satanic secret cult with the first and second century Gnostics is just typical of your batshit fanaticism and twisted logic.  Save it for a muppet court of law.  This is a jury of one who acquits.  I am well aware that Hitler was very much into the occult, and that he would be very familiar with Blavatsky doesn't surprise me.  He was convinced that the Ark of the Israelites was a high tech weapon which he wanted to obtain, and Spielberg's movie is far more based in fact than the average gum chewer would guess, sending many agents to the Middle East and Tibet searching for it.    For me, you did not make your case, though I am sure you will reply with your endless convoluted logic to do so.  I am not in the market for your religion or the Gnostics either, for that matter.  As mentioned, my primary interest in the Gnostics centered around their knowledge of the Archon beings.   I regard your writings on religion in particular to be a vast energy drain for anyone dumb enough to get sucked in.  Every wonder why it's so important to you that everyone regard Jesus exactly as you do?  Got that Zippo handy and loaded with fluid.

 

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