AuthorTopic: WW3??  (Read 74063 times)

Offline Bob S.

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WW3??
« on: November 24, 2015, 03:24:00 AM »
Turkey just shot down a Russian jet!

Online RE

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 03:30:36 AM »
Turkey just shot down a Russian jet!

That hadda happen.

Wait till the Chinese sink a Japanese frigate in the South China Sea!

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Offline Bob S.

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 03:43:15 AM »
Today a giant leap toward doom!

In addition to Russian jet --

--group of white guys attacked Black Lives Matter encampment {MSM)
--arctic sea ice hit at record low thickness and area for this time of year.  (Arctic News)

Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 03:49:18 AM »
Lavrov is going to Ankara tomorrow.

The area is very hilly/mountainous.  Agriculture is mostly orchards grown on terraces.  Nothing like this picture.



The border doesn't appear to be well marked on GoogleEarth.
This area is disputed between Syria and Turkey - was once Syrian, now Turkish.

https://www.rt.com/news/323215-warplane-crash-syria-turkey/
Russian Su-24 fighter jet shot down over Syria - Russian MoD
24 Nov, 2015

A Russian Su-24 fighter has been shot down in Syria, the Russian Defense Ministry said, adding the plane hadn’t violated Turkish airspace and was flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters.

“During the flight, the aircraft was flying within the borders of Syria, which was registered by objective monitoring data,” the ministry said, adding that the aircraft was "supposedly shot down from the ground.”

The pilots managed to eject, the ministry said, adding their fate is as yet unknown.

The downing of the Russian plane is "a very serious incident,” said Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov. He added, however, that it is too early to draw conclusions until the whole situation is clear.

Reports of a downed plane emerged earlier in Turkish media. A Habertürk TV reporter on the scene said the aircraft “turned into a fireball.” Numerous witnesses wrote on social media, saying thick plumes of smoke have been rising from the jet crash site.

Turkish military added the plane had been warned at least 10 times over a period of five minutes before being shot down by two Turkish F-16 fighter jets. He said the plane had violated Turkish airspace.

The plane reportedly crashed in a village mostly populated by Syrian Turkmen. The place has been a hotspot between the opposition and the Syrian Army.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has met with officials from the Foreign Ministry. He instructed them to consult with NATO and the UN on the latest developments on the Syrian border, Davutoglu’s office said in a statement.
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Oil Advances as Mideast Tensions Rise After Russian Plane Downed
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 04:06:27 AM »
Look at the upside.  It will get the Oil Price out of the Toilet.  ::)

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-24/oil-trades-near-42-as-saudis-reiterate-market-stability-pledge

Oil Advances as Mideast Tensions Rise After Russian Plane Downed

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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Oil Advances as Mideast Tensions Rise After Russian Plane Downed
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 04:13:38 AM »
Look at the upside.  It will get the Oil Price out of the Toilet.  ::)

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-24/oil-trades-near-42-as-saudis-reiterate-market-stability-pledge

Oil Advances as Mideast Tensions Rise After Russian Plane Downed

Yes, perhaps, but in my view the oil price is responding to the apparent recent change of heart of Saudi Arabia.

Who knows anymore though, 99% of news now is all bull shit propaganda.  :dontknow:

Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 04:32:38 AM »
Yamadi is the HQ of the Free Syrian Army.  That might explain a few things.

http://eaworldview.com/2015/10/syria-daily-washington-reveals-its-big-plan-to-fight-the-islamic-state/
5 October
Videos: Russian Attacks Hit Refugee Camp and Free Syrian Army HQ in Latakia Province

Destruction at the Yamadi refugee camp and a Free Syrian Army headquarters in Latakia Province in western Syria after Russian airstrikes:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/wYy6mwt9W5Q" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/wYy6mwt9W5Q</a>

A local source notes, “Russia is hitting hospitals, refugee camps, and rebels positions very close to the Turkish border — until now, the camps had been safe from attack by the Syrian air force.”


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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 05:27:36 AM »
Putin is angry.  "The incident will have grave consequences".

https://www.rt.com/news/323262-putin-downing-plane-syria/
Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices
24 Nov, 2015

Turkey backstabbed Russia by downing the Russian warplane and acted as accomplices of the terrorists, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

“This incident stands out against the usual fight against terrorism. Our troops are fighting heroically against terrorists, risking their lives. But the loss we suffered today came from a stab in the back delivered by accomplices of the terrorists,” Putin said.

Putin said the plane was hit by a Turkish warplane as it was traveling at an altitude of 6000 meters about a kilometer from the Turkish border. It was hit by an air-to-air missile launched by a Turkish F-16 jet. The crash site is four kilometers from the border. The plane posed no threat to Turkish national security, he stressed.

Putin said the plane was targeting terrorist targets in the Latakia province of Syria, many of whom came from Russia.

Russia has for a long time been aware of oil going from Syria under the control of terrorists to Turkey, Putin said. The money finances terrorist groups.

The downing of the Russian warplane happened despite Russia signing an agreement with the US to prevent such incidents in Syria, Putin stressed. Turkey claims to be part of the US-led coalition fighting against IS in Syria, he added.

The incident will have grave consequences for Russia’s relations with Turkey, Putin warned.

The fact that Turkey did not try to contact Russia in the wake of the incident and rushed to call a NATO meeting instead is worrisome, Putin said. It appears that Turkey want NATO to serve the interests of IS, he added.

Putin said Russia respects the regional interests of other nations, but warned the atrocity committed by Turkey would not go without an answer.

Putin was speaking at a meeting with King of Jordan Abdullah II in Sochi, who expressed his condolences to the Russian leader over the loss of a Russian pilot in Tuesday’s incident, as well as the deaths of Russians in the Islamic State bombing of a passenger plane in Egypt.

The two leaders discussed the anti-terrorist effort in Syria and Iraq and the diplomatic effort to find a political solution to the Syrian conflict.

Earlier a Russian Su-24 bomber was shot down by Turkish fighter jets near the Turkish-Syrian border. Turkey claimed that the plane violated Turkish airspace and did not respond to warnings. Ankara said it was rightfully acting to defend its sovereignty.

Russia insists that the plane stayed in the Syrian airspace.

One of the two pilots of the downed Russian warplane was reported killed by a rebel group as he was parachuting down on the ground after ejecting from the plane. The fate of the second pilot remains unknown.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 05:30:18 AM by Palloy »
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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 05:53:27 AM »
It gets worse.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-search-helicopter-downed-us-made-anti-tank-missile-rebels-claim
Russian Search Helicopter Downed Near Syrian Border By US-Made Anti-Tank Missile, Rebels Claim
Tyler Durden
11/24/2015

The news is coming fast and furious out of Syria on Tuesday where, earlier today, Turkey decided to shoot down a Russian Su-24 which Ankara says violated its airspace while conducting operations near the border.

Russia says the fighter jet was in Syrian airspace for the duration of the mission while Turkey insists that the plane crossed the border and was warned several times before being engaged by two F-16s.

For his part, Vladimir Putin has now called Turkey a “backstabber” on the way to accusing Ankara of funding ISIS and derailing the war on terror.

Meanwhile, the FSA which is aligned with al-Nusra and is backed and funded by the US and Turkey released two videos depicting its fighters celebrating over the body of a dead Russian pilot.

Just in case all of that wasn’t enough, the FSA now claims to have shot down a Russian helicopter as it searched for the two missing pilots.

    SYRIAN OPPOSITION SAYS RUSSIAN HELICOPTER DOWNED: JAZEERA
    RUSSIAN HELICOPTER MAKES EMERGENCY LANDING IN SYRIA: SOHR
    SYRIAN OBSERVATORY SAYS RUSSIAN HELICOPTER HIT IN SYRIA, REBEL GROUP SAYS IT STRUCK IT WITH ANTI-TANK MISSILE

And here's The Telegraph:

    In what appears to be a separate incident, another Syrian rebel group - the Free Syrian Army’s First Coastal Division - says it has destroyed a Russia helicopter on Turkmen Mountain, using a TOW anti-tank missile, writes Louisa Loveluck, Middle East Correspondent.

    Pro-regime media outlets appear to have confirmed the report, suggesting that a Russian helicopter has been forced to make an emergency landing in government-controlled Latakia.

    It was previously reported that Russian helicopters were trying to access the location where the first fighter bomber had crashed.

    If the strike is confirmed, the TOW missile was most likely supplied through the same US and Turkey-backed logistics programme that has reportedly been supplying Alwiya al-Ashar.

    The rebels' usage of these American-made TOW missiles has increased over 800 per cent since Russia began air strikes against them at the end of September, slowing regime offensives across the country by destroying dozens of tanks and other armoured vehicles.

Do note: these are the exact same TOW missiles we discussed on Monday (see here) and that the US and the Saudis have been funneling to the FSA and its allies and that have been shared with al-Nusra. Here's what we said just one day ago:

    Obviously, this is the very definition of absurdity. It would be bad enough if the US were supplying TOWs to anyone in Syria. But this is Washington and Riyadh handing anti-tank missiles to forces that are firing them at the Iranians who are operating under cover of Russian airstrikes. Just to drive that home: the US is waging war against Iran and Russia with but one degree of separation.



If that doesn't count as prescient we don't know what does.

Do note that the helicopter incident is as yet unconfirmed and there are conflicting reports as to what happened, but if this is true, it confirms that US-backed forces supported by Ankara and Riyadh are now using weapons supplied by Washington to shoot down Russian aircraft. Of course they've already been using them to destroy Iranian troops.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 06:14:19 AM »
Putin speaks at a meeting with the King of Jordan.  Starts 5:50 minutes in:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7343nXyGS0s?feature=player_embedded" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7343nXyGS0s?feature=player_embedded</a>
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Re: WW3??
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 06:59:45 AM »
Putin speaks at a meeting with the King of Jordan.  Starts 5:50 minutes in:

Helicopters are chump change.  When they send the Charles de Gaulle to the bottom of Davey Jones Locker, it gets serious.

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 07:21:14 AM »
Note my highlight.

Between a rock and a hard place.  France is a member of NATO but also working together with the Ruskies on Air Strikes. Turkey is a NATO member as well.  If NATO doesn't back up Turkey, it blows the alliance to shit.  If NATO does back up Turkey, they essentially declare War on Mother Russia.

There's not a lot of middle ground here.

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http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/

Putin calls plane's downing by Turkey 'stab in the back'
Don Melvin is a newsdesk editor for CNN in London

By Don Melvin and Zeynep Bilginsoy, CNN

Updated 9:54 AM ET, Tue November 24, 2015 | Video Source: CNN

Story highlights

    Putin says plane's downing "will have serious consequences for Russia's relationship with Turkey"
    Turkey says it warned Russian plane 10 times before F-16s "responded" to airspace violation
    Russia supports Syria's Assad regime; Turkey opposes it

Istanbul (CNN)One of the world's most volatile regions was roiled further Tuesday when Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Turkish-Syrian border. Turkey said it hit the plane after it repeatedly violated Turkey's airspace and ignored 10 warnings.

Turkey and Russia exchanged bellicose language after the downing of the plane, raising fears in the international community that the brutal Syrian conflict could spiral into something much wider.

Russian President Vladimir Putin called the downing of the Russian plane a "stab in the back that will have serious consequences for Russia's relationship with Turkey."

And Turkey's ambassador to the United States, Serdar Kilic, was equally aggressive in his comments, tweeting: "Understand this: Turkey is a country whose warnings should be taken seriously and listened to. Don't test Turkey's patience. Try to win its friendship."

NATO's governing body, the North Atlantic Council, said it would hold an emergency meeting in Brussels at 5 p.m. (11 a.m. ET) on Tuesday. The council is made up of the NATO ambassadors of the 28 countries that are members of the alliance and is NATO's highest decision-making body.

Turkey is a member of NATO, which considers an attack on one of its members to be an attack on them all.


Not long after the plane was shot down Tuesday morning, spitting fire and diving nose-first toward the ground, Turkey claimed responsibility. Turkey's semiofficial outlet, the Anadolu Agency, quoted Turkish presidential sources as saying the Russian Su-24 was "hit within the framework of engagement rules" in Syria's Bayirbucak area, near the border with Turkey.

Russian officials denied the plane had violated Turkish airspace.

Both pilots ejected from the plane, but their fate is unknown, Sputnik reported. The terrorist group ISIS does not operate in the area where the plane went down. But other rebel groups do, including al Nusra Front -- al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria -- along with more moderate U.S.-backed groups.

Abu Ibrahim al-Sheghri, the military leader in the 10th coastal brigade and part of the Turkmen Mountain Military Operation Room, told CNN that the body of one of the pilots had been found in the Nibh Almur area of Syria.The brigade is searching for the other pilot in the same area he said.

A brutal civil war

Turkey released a purported image of the flight path of the plane showing it had violated Turkish airspace. Turkey said it had issued 10 warnings to the aircraft before two F-16s responded "within engagement rules" near the Turkish-Syrian border.

But the Russian Defense Ministry said "objective monitoring confirmed" the plane was not in Turkish airspace.

"The Su-24 bomber jet was in Syrian airspace at the altitude 6,000 meters, the Russian Defense Ministry said," according to Sputnik. "The pilots were reportedly able to parachute out of the jet before it crashed."

A U.S. defense official told CNN that Turkey informed Washington that it had shot down a Russian military aircraft near the Syrian border after an airspace violation. U.S. forces were not involved in the incident, the official added.

Syria has been embroiled for more than four years in a brutal civil war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people, sent millions of families fleeing and laid waste to entire cities.

Turkey vehemently opposes the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad. Russia is propping up the Assad regime.

Skirmishes between Turks and Syrians have taken place in the past, with Turkish officials accusing Syrian planes of violating Turkish air space.

A 'significant escalation'

A Russian plane is seen crashing nose-first in northern Syria.
A Russian plane is seen crashing nose-first in northern Syria.

"The moment of the plane falling into Bayirbucak region across from Hatay's Yayladagi was captured on camera," the Anadolu Agency reported. "The pilot's evacuation via parachute was also captured. Heavy smoke has been seen in the area where the plane fell."

Sajjan Gohel, international security director for the Asia-Pacific Foundation, a think tank, described the downing of the plane as "a very significant escalation."

"It's very much the last thing that's needed right now, especially in the aftermath of the Paris attacks, when there was hope that Russia could form an alliance with France and with the United States against ISIS," Gohel said. "This is going to complicate things. This is going to add unnecessary tensions that really weren't required at this critical juncture."

He said the downing of the Russian plane would hamper efforts to form a united front against the terrorist group ISIS.

"This is a situation that unfortunately was almost inevitable at some point, because Turkey has long been accusing Russia of interfering in their airspace," Gohel said. "They've threatened them in the past. And even though economic relations between the two countries are strong -- politically, there have been tensions recently."

NATO 'in contact with Turkish authorities'

A NATO official told CNN that NATO was monitoring the events closely.

"We are in contact with Turkish authorities and will have to wait to see how it develops," the official said.

The official noted that "when Russian jets violated Turkish airspace a few weeks ago, the Council did meet in an extraordinary session, which resulted in a condemnation of the incursion."

The official would not comment on whether the alliance was in contact with Russian authorities over the incident.

A massive proxy war

Syria's internal conflict has become a massive proxy war for numerous international powers, both in the region and outside it -- a situation that has added to the perception that incidents such as Tuesday's plane downing were inevitable.

Currently, the United States, Russia, France, the Gulf states, Turkey, Israel, Iran, Jordan and Hezbollah are involved, one way or another, in military activity in Syria.

"Russia has a slight get-out-of-jail-for-free card, in that it hasn't lost any actual lives here, but it is insisting that its plane didn't cross into Turkish airspace," said CNN's Nick Paton Walsh

"They have tried in the past to have meetings in Ankara and Istanbul between Turkish and Russian officials to make sure misunderstandings didn't happen, and it's clearly failed," Walsh said.

This incident has the potential to be extraordinarily damaging, but Russia is unlikely to want to start a major conflict with Turkey, a NATO member, over an incident like this -- that could technically be blamed on this jet straying, according to Turkish officials, into the wrong territory -- Paton Walsh said.

Turkey shot down Syrian fighter previously

In March 2014, Turkey shot down a Syrian fighter jet after the warplane strayed into its airspace, according to then-Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan is now the country's president.

"Our F-16s went up in the air and shot that plane down. Why? Because if you violate my airspace, then from now on, our slap will be hard," Erdogan told supporters at a campaign rally in 2014.

But state-run media in Syria called it an act of "blatant aggression" and said the downed plane was over northern Syria at the time.

Zeynep Bilginsoy reported from Istanbul with CNN's Don Melvin writing and reporting from London. CNN's Ben Wedeman, Jim Sciutto, Lucy Pawle and Nick Paton Walsh also contributed to this report.
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Execution Of Russian Pilots While Parachuting Caught On Tape
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 08:23:44 AM »
It's a "War Crime" to shoot Pilots who are parachuting down after the plane they were using to bomb/strafe you is going down in flames?  What?  Who committed a crime first here?  It's not a "War Crime" to drop bombs on people but it is a "War Crime" to shoot them on the way down?  :icon_scratch:

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-pilots-executed-while-parachuting-turkish-media

Execution Of Russian Pilots While Parachuting Caught On Tape

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 11/24/2015 10:37 -0500

    Turkey
 

If Putin was angry when Turkey shot down a Russian plane, which may or may not have crossed Turkish territory - reports on both sides are conflicting - he will be absolutely livid to learn that, according to Turkey's Dogan News, the Russian pilots who had parachuted in an attempt to save their lives after the plane was shot down, had been executed while parachuting down by local rebels, which considering the video released earlier belonged to the Free Syrian Army, are same "rebels" who are funded directly by the CIA.

And this:

As Telegraph points out, the above tweet is from CNN Turk's Foreign Editor who tweeted that the Turkmen rebels DHA spoke to said: "We hit at the two pilots after they parachuted."

This, as many have already pointed out, is a war crime.

The only question is whether this, together with the provocative action by Turkey which many can see being an act of war, will be deemed as such by Putin.

The parachuters can be seen in the second half of the clip below:

 

For those who missed it, here is the video uploaded by the Free Syrian Army of at least one dead parachuter.

 

And here is the video of rebels opening fire on Russian pilots
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Offline Eddie

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2015, 08:33:40 AM »
The murdering bastards are easy to hate, are they not?

However, I'm surprised they didn't save the Russians  for scimitar practice
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Offline azozeo

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2015, 09:42:00 AM »
Let's not forget that the psychopaths make up the rules as they go along.
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