AuthorTopic: WW3??  (Read 105514 times)

Offline K-Dog

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2015, 08:54:00 PM »
The only groups excluded from the ceasefire are Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) and Al-Nusra Front, Al-Qaeda’s branch in Syria.
HTF is it a "ceasefire"  If ISIS & Al-Nusra are excluded?   :icon_scratch:  Isn't that who everybody is supposedly shooting at?

RE

No, the original revolutionaries are Syrians who rose up and challenged Assad for a brutal regime.  They were put down with lethal force and the civil war was off and running.  It escalated but was not reported in American news.  I had links on my website to revolutionary Syrian Websites representing Kobanî after ISIS showed up to take over the revolution and wipe out the Kurds when the American news blackout was going on.

Turkey has always been wanting to wipe out the Kurds and ISIS wants them gone so we have alliance one.

1) The Turkey and ISIS alliance.

Assad has forfeited any right to rule but his police state still fights the Syrian people who are split into several ethnic groups all under the name 'revolutionaries'.

A Sunni Syria is possible so we have Alliance two.

2) The U.S., Saudi Arabia and Sunni Syrian Rebels. 

The U.S. would really like nothing more than a big clusterfuck so they can advance the Moslems are evil meme domestically.  So we have alliance three.

3) The U.S. and chaos.

Enter Russia who wants ISIS put down because they have a lot of Moslems in Russia and they don't want this ISIL shit on their soil.  This is alliance four.

4) Russia and Assad.

I'd give Putin some advice but I doubt he would listen.  Anyway this is the basic picture and:

Quote
Isn't that who everybody is supposedly shooting at?


Isn't ignorance because of stupidity but very little news about Syria has been allowed to reach the American People due to Alliance 3.  The agenda to create American hate for Moslems and to destabilize the Levant with the exception of the American gas tank has caused domestic news to be suppressed.

I think RE was playing and just wanted someone to explain it.  This thread is called WW3 after all!

Fascist states always manage the news.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 09:09:32 PM by K-Dog »
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Offline RE

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2015, 09:28:28 PM »
I think RE was playing and just wanted someone to explain it.  This thread is called WW3 after all!

No, I'm serious.

How can you have a "cease fire" when a major player in the game is not included?  Russia, NATO, turkey whoever can keep dropping bombs on Syria and just say "We are bombing ISIS" regardless where the bombs fall.  Since ISIS is not included, they can keep dropping IEDs on the roads and sending out Suicide Bombers willy nilly.  Everybody keeps shooting their Kalishnikovs because it's always "ISIS" they are shooting at and always "ISIS" shooting back.  What kind of fucking "cease fire" is that?

RE
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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2015, 10:45:55 PM »
I think you have that history completely wrong, K-Dog - heavily influenced by US media.

Firstly Assad's regime was widely popular, and secular, and could afford to protect Palestinian refugees, and Iraqis opposed to Saddam Hussein (Shi'ites).  Syria was a relative haven of security.  Assad used to be a dentist, he's really not cut out to be a monster.

Then Peak Syrian Oil happened, and soon after a collapse in profit from oil exports, and rampant inflation with unhappy people in the streets protesting noisily but peacefully.

Then Saudi-Qatari jihadists turned up and shot at police AND protesters from rooftops.  And then did it again at the obligatory mass funeral marches.  Assad's complaints about "armed thugs" were ignored.  (Sounds like Ukraine, doesn't it? )

Then armed police and the army turned up and were serious, given what had just gone before.

And then the US propaganda started: "Assad must go!", "He's massacring peaceful protesters!!", "He's using barrel bombs !!!", "If he starts using his chemicals weapons, that's the red line", "He's using poison gas !!!!".

Then Putin stepped in and said "Back off, he is going to surrender all his chemical weapons."  And he did.

All this time ISIS didn't even exist, and the jihadis were obedient to their various masters.  The Free Syrian Army were a group of non-professional  local fighters that would have died out if they were the only ones fighting Assad, but the US kept pumping in weapons and money to keep them going, and they kept losing them to the professional jihadi fighters.

And THEN ISIS was born, and all the while the White House was being conned by Saudi and Turkey that they were still good allies, the jihadis were still controllable, and that Assad would fall soon, and we could sort out the mess later.  Obama believed that because he doesn't want to be remembered as the President who started another unwinnable war, he wants to be the Nobel Peace Prize President.

Then Mosul's military defected to ISIS in the face of Iraqi Shi'ite maltreatment, which had to be reported as them running away and disappearing.  Now Obama wanted to act against ISIS, but his good allies didn't.  Turkey didn't join the anti-ISIS coalition for another year, and Saudi and Qatar never did much.

Then Putin came in and said : first priority ISIS, second priority ceasefire and political solution, and just this week that's what happened.
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Offline K-Dog

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #123 on: December 18, 2015, 11:11:18 PM »
If I have it wrong I got it from British propaganda and several documentaries.  The documentaries may be propaganda as well.
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #124 on: December 18, 2015, 11:14:45 PM »
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0U01B920151217
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Offline K-Dog

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #125 on: December 18, 2015, 11:25:56 PM »
A quick search for 'Assad popularity' shows that Assad as a blood drinking Satan is an exaggeration but some Syrians who have been suppressed by him might disagree.  Never having been to Syria I don't know the truth.  My questions about him would be satisfied by an accurate assessment of his brutality.

Turkish hate for Kurds who I like because they seem to respect their women is a matter of history and has been going on for a long time.  I watched Kobani fall virtually alone abandoned by everyone so 'alliance three' stands. 
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Re: WW3??
« Reply #126 on: December 18, 2015, 11:29:15 PM »
I think RE was playing and just wanted someone to explain it.  This thread is called WW3 after all!

No, I'm serious.

How can you have a "cease fire" when a major player in the game is not included?  Russia, NATO, turkey whoever can keep dropping bombs on Syria and just say "We are bombing ISIS" regardless where the bombs fall.  Since ISIS is not included, they can keep dropping IEDs on the roads and sending out Suicide Bombers willy nilly.  Everybody keeps shooting their Kalishnikovs because it's always "ISIS" they are shooting at and always "ISIS" shooting back.  What kind of fucking "cease fire" is that?

RE

Point taken.  If people are being killed calling something a cease fire is inaccurate and confusing on top of being disrespectful to victims.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #127 on: December 19, 2015, 05:06:18 PM »
Oops, sorry, again.

https://www.rt.com/news/326515-pentagon-strike-iraqi-soldiers/
Pentagon: US strike that killed Iraqi soldiers could be 'mistake' by both sides
19 Dec, 2015

An airstrike by a US warplane that killed Iraqi soldiers could have resulted from "a mistake that involved both sides," the Pentagon chief said, according to AP.

"[Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi] and I agreed that this was an event that we both regretted and that there would be an investigation of it, but that these kinds of things happen when you're fighting side by side," US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said on Saturday.

The US said they are conducting an investigation into the incident, which was the first confirmed case of friendly fire since the US-led coalition started a bombing campaign against the terrorist group Islamic State in Iraq.

Earlier, Iraq's defense minister said nine servicemen were killed in the strike.

"The coalition air forces were covering the advance of army ground troops near Fallujah because the Iraqi army helicopters were not able to fly due to the bad weather. The final death toll of the strike is nine soldiers killed, including an army officer," Defense Minister Khaled al-Obeidi told a news conference.

The Iraqi military earlier reported one fatality in the incident, which happened some 65 kilometers west of Baghdad, and said nine others were injured. Soldiers involved in the incident told the media that as many as 25 troops could have been killed. Medical sources reported treating at least 20 injured in the wake of the airstrike.

Baghdad said the US mistake was likely due to Iraqi troops and their opponents having been close to each other at the time of the bombing.

“The distance between our forces and the enemy was very close, meters,” an Iraqi Defense Ministry statement said Friday. “Our forces got mixed.”

The assessment was questioned by an Iraqi officer, who was injured by the US airstrike.

“We were moving forward and Daesh were retreating, when suddenly the bombing took place on the forces that were behind us,” he said on condition of anonymity, using the Arabic abbreviation for Islamic State.

He added that the fact that senior officers got injured indicates that the airstrike didn't target the frontline.

The incident fuels suspicions in Iraq that the US-led coalition may be helping IS rather than fighting against it, a notion that is widespread in the country. Shiite militias, which are fighting against IS forces in Iraq, had suffered from American interventions that helped the terrorists in the past, militia commander Hakim al-Zamili told RT. Al-Zamili also heads the Iraqi parliament’s defense and security committee.

“We don't believe it was a technical mistake. We constantly see that the United States are trying to provide air cover to Islamic State. They are preventing us from making an offensive,” he said.

“I think everyone is now convinced that the United States is not sincere in its fight against Islamic State. Maybe they have another agenda. The Pentagon, the CIA and other agencies in the US are trying to make a [rift] between Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq,” he added. “They are trying to tear [apart] Iraq with the help of their allies like Turkey and the Gulf states.”

The Shia militias are fighting against IS with the help of instructors and officers from Iran. The US refuses to coordinate its combat missions in Iraq with Tehran. Some members of the US-led coalition, such as Saudi Arabia and Turkey, see Iran as an enemy and would oppose any cooperation with Tehran.

The attack on Iraqi troops is the second embarrassing incident for the US Air Force in recent months. In early October, American warplanes bombed a hospital run by the international aid organization Doctors Without Borders in Afghanistan city of Kunduz, killing at least 42 people. Amid widespread condemnation, Washington said the strike was a mistake and issued a presidential apology, a rare development for incident involving civilian casualties caused by US bombings.
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Offline K-Dog

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #128 on: December 19, 2015, 09:18:31 PM »
Quote
The incident fuels suspicions in Iraq that the US-led coalition may be helping IS rather than fighting against it, a notion that is widespread in the country.

The empire of chaos.  This must be a demoralizing blow to the coalition.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #129 on: December 21, 2015, 05:38:38 AM »
France wouldn't go public with details of offers if it hadn't already been agreed that he wouldn't be rebuffed.  Putin is succeeding in getting NATO to break ranks with the US.

https://www.rt.com/news/326642-france-russia-action-isis/
French defense chief to ask Russia to step up anti-ISIS ops
21 Dec, 2015

Ahead of his visit to Moscow on Monday, the French defense minister told journalists Paris would ask Russia to increase its action against Islamic State, and would offer intelligence sharing and plans for a joint vision on combating terrorist groups in Syria.

French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian heads for Moscow this Monday in pursuit of enhanced collaboration between France and Russia to combat Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) on Syrian soil. His main goal is to ask Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu to increase strikes against IS, according to AFP.

"We will discuss what we consider to be terrorist groups, and how Russia might increase its action against Daesh [an Arabic acronym for IS], which is our sole enemy," Le Drian was quoted as saying by AFP.

Despite other Western countries being slow to join efforts with Russia in suppressing IS militants, Paris is showing signs of a far more pragmatic approach towards combating international terrorism.

Le Drian also told journalists he would offer the Russian military an intelligence-sharing framework to exchange information on Russian as well as French speakers in IS, which could be useful for both sides.

The minister stressed France is ready to act responsibly, as “intelligence sharing requires giving on both sides.”

French and Russian defense chiefs will also discuss measures to prevent dangerous incidents in Syrian airspace between the two countries’ warplanes during combat sorties.

The French defense minister’s trip comes after President Francois Hollande visited Moscow in November in the wake of the Paris terror attacks that killed 130 people. Hollande’s talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin resulted in a joint declaration to intensify strikes against IS and coordinate the military effort in and around Syria.

Following the political statement by the French president, Le Drian is now coming to Moscow with a roadmap outlining exact strategies for tackling the threat posed by IS.

France has recently deployed its aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, off Syria's coast, complete with 26 bomber jets on board. Russian guided missile destroyer the Moskva is ready to provide temporary cover, with President Putin ordering the Russian military to work “as allies” with the French.

On Sunday, President Putin called on European states to act independently and join forces with Russia in combating international terrorism, saying in a documentary on the emerging world order that Europeans’ best interests “lie in joining efforts with Russia.” Moscow is ready to cooperate even in the midst of sanctions, Putin stressed.

The French military is carrying out anti-IS strikes as part of the US-led coalition that has not proved effective so far. The coalition’s legitimacy is highly questionable, as Damascus has at no time invited the West to conduct an air campaign on Syrian territory.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #130 on: December 26, 2015, 09:54:42 PM »
Al-Baghdadi has released his Christmas message for the world, and the future doesn't sound peaceful.

https://www.rt.com/news/327165-isis-threats-israel-saudi/
ISIS leader threatens Israel, calls for revolt in Saudi Arabia
26 Dec, 2015

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of Islamic State terrorist group, allegedly issued an audio recording, threatening to turn Palestine into a “graveyard” for Israelis, and urged an insurgency against Saudi Arabia rulers he called “apostates” perverting Islam.

In the audio statement distributed via ISIS-affiliated social media accounts on Saturday, al-Baghdadi said the terrorist group has not forgotten Palestine “for a moment” claiming that Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) is getting closer to Israel “every day”. He claimed that the extremists would surround Israelis one day, which “is close” according to the terrorist group leader, Israeli media reported.

The IS leader also claimed that Palestine would become “a graveyard” for Israelis and stated that since all “the Jews of the world” had gathered in Israel, war against them would be “easy.”

In his audio message, al-Baghdadi also slammed Saudi Arabia’s initiative to create an Islamic coalition against the terrorist group. The self-proclaimed Islamic State leader said that the new coalition was “falsely” called Islamic. He added that a “truly Islamic coalition” would be aimed at freeing Palestine and fighting Israel.

He also urged Saudi citizens to turn against the country’s rulers, which he called “apostate tyrants,” AFP reported.

The terrorist group leader also used the opportunity to threaten Russia and the US and claim that the air strikes conducted by the coalitions allegedly did not weaken the jihadists. He declared that the group gets only “tougher” as the world intensifies its efforts to defeat it.

The 20-minute-long audio recording is the first statement attributed to al-Baghdadi in the last seven months as the last recording featuring his voice was published in May. The authenticity of the latest statement has not yet been verified, although the voice in the recording matched al-Baghdadi’s previous audio statements, AFP reported.

The whereabouts of al-Baghdadi still remain unknown, although it was previously reported that he was severely injured in one of the US-led coalition airstrikes. He made his only public appearance in summer 2014 in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, which is held by IS.

Although al-Baghdadi mentioned Israel in his statement for the first time, this audio message was not the first one, in which IS threatened Israelis.

In October, militants claimed they would enter Al-Aqsa mosque in Palestine “as conquerors” in a Hebrew-language video attributed to ISIS. On December 4, the terrorist group released another video beginning with the images of the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in which the militants threaten to kill “all Jews,” the Algemeiner reports.
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Offline RE

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A New Ottoman Empire?
« Reply #131 on: December 28, 2015, 09:53:25 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Anz-SjDFUsI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Anz-SjDFUsI</a>
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Offline Palloy

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #132 on: December 29, 2015, 05:00:51 PM »
This very sober assessment of the situation is uncharacteristic of PCR.  Even then, he doesn't spend any time considering factors that might lead to a different outcome than WW3. 

Don't empires collapse through overreach?  Not only are there wars going on in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Yemen, but major internal strife in Turkey, Pakistan, South Sudan, Mali, Nigeria. 

Russia could easily take out the parts of Georgia it doesn't already control, linking up with friendly Armenia and Iran, and encircling the former Soviet Republic of Azerbaijan, which could easily throw out its corrupt dictator and change sides.  Then, with almost no effort on Putin's part you would have this:



Would the US be able to respond?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43823.htm
Why WWIII Is On The Horizon
Paul Craig Roberts
December 29, 2015

The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 gave birth to a dangerous American ideology called neoconservativism. The Soviet Union had served as a constraint on US unilateral action. With the removal of this constraint on Washington, neoconservatives declared their agenda of US world hegemony. America was now the “sole superpower,” the “unipower,” that could act without restraint anywhere in the world.

The Washington Post neoconservative journalist Charles Krauthammer summed up the “new reality” as follows:

“We have overwheming global power. We are history’s designated custodians of the international system. When the Soviet Union fell, something new was born, something utterly new–a unipolar world dominated by a single superpower unchecked by any rival and with decisive reach in every corner of the globe. This is a stagering new development in history, not seen since the fall of Rome. Even Rome was no model for what America is today.”

The staggering unipolar power that history has given to Washington has to be protected at all costs. In 1992 top Pentagon official Undersecretary Paul Wolfowitz penned the Wolfowitz Doctrine, which became the basis for Washington’s foreign policy.

The Wolfowitz Doctrine states that the “first objective” of American foreign and military policy is “to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat [to US unilateral action] on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.” (A “hostile power” is a country sufficiently strong to have a foreign policy independent from Washington’s.)

The unilateral assertion of American power begin in ernest during the Clinton regime with the interventions in Yugoslavia, Serbia, Kosovo, and the no-fly zone imposed on Iraq. In 1997 the neoconservatives penned their “Project for a New American Century.” In 1998, three years prior to 9/11, the neoconservatives sent a letter to President Clinton calling for regime change in Iraq and “the removal of Saddam Hussein from power.” Neoconservatives set out their program for removing seven governments in five years. http://www.globalresearch.ca/we-re-going-to-take-out-7-countries-in-5-years-iraq-syria-lebanon-libya-somalia-sudan-iran/5166

The events of September 11, 2001, are regarded by informed people as “the new Pearl harbor” that the neoconservatives said was necessary in order to begin their wars of conquest in the Middle East. Paul O’Neil, President George W. Bush’s first Treasury Secretary, has stated pubicly that the agenda of President Bush’s first meeting with his cabinet was the invasion of Iraq. This invasion was planned prior to 9/11. Since 9/11 Washington has destroyed in whole or part eight countries and now confronts Russia both in Syria and Ukraine.

Russia cannot allow a jihadist Caliphate to be established in an area comprising Syria/Iraq, because it would be a base for exporting destabilization into Muslim parts of the Russian Federation. Henry Kissinger himself has stated this fact, and it is clear enough to any person with a brain. However, the power-crazed fanatical neoconservatives, who have controlled the Clinton, Bush, and Obama regimes, are so absorbed in their own hubris and arrogance that they are prepared to push Russia to the point of having their Turkish puppet shoot down a Russian airplane and to overthrow the democratically-elected government in Ukraine that was on good terms with Russia, substituting in its place an American puppet government.

With this background, we can understand that the dangerous situation facing the world is the product of the neoconservative’s arrogant policy of US world hegemony. The failures of judgment and the dangers in the Syrian and Ukrainian conflicts are themselves the consequences of the neoconservative ideology.

To perpetuate American hegemony, the neoconservatives threw away the guarantees that Washington gave Gorbachev that NATO would not move one inch to the East. The neoconservatives pulled the US out of the ABM Treaty, which specified that neither the US nor Russia would develop and deploy anti-ballistic missiles. The neoconservatives re-wrote US war doctrine and elevated nuclear weapons from their role as a retaliatory force to a pre-emptive first strike force. The neoconservatives began putting ABM bases on Russia’s borders, claiming that the bases were for the purpose of protecting Europe from non-existent Iranian nuclear ICBMs.

Russia and Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, have been demonized by neoconservatives and their puppets in the US government and media. For example, Hillary Clinton, a candidate for the Democratic nomination for president, declared Putin to be “the new Hitler.” A former CIA official called for Putin’s assassination. Presidential candidates in both parties are competing in terms of who can be the most aggressive toward Russia and the most insulting toward Russia’s president.

The effect has been to destroy the trust between nuclear powers. The Russian government has learned that Washington does not respect Washington’s own laws, much less international law, and that Washington cannot be trusted to keep any agreement. This lack of trust, together with the aggression toward Russia spewing from Washington and the presstitute media and echoing in the idiotic European capitals, has established the ground for nuclear war. As NATO (essentially the US) has no prospect of defeating Russia in conventional war, much less defeating an alliance of Russia and China, war will be nuclear.

To avoid war, Putin is non-provocative and low-key in his responses to Western provocations. Putin’s responsible behavior, however, is misinterpreted by neoconervatives as a sign of weakness and fear. The neoconservatives tell President Obama to keep the pressure on Russia, and Russia will give in. However, Putin has made it clear that Russia will not give in. Putin has sent this message on many occasions. For example, on September 28, 2015, at the 70th anniversary of the United Nations, Putin said that Russia can no longer tolerate the state of affairs in the world. Two days later Putin took command of the war against ISIS in Syria.

The European governments, especially Germany and the UK, are complicit in the move toward nuclear war. These two American vassal states enable Washington’s reckless aggression toward Russia by repeating Washington’s propaganda and supporting Washington’s sanctions and interventions against other countries. As long as Europe remains nothing but an extension of Washington, the prospect of Armegeddon will continue to rise.

At this point in time, nuclear war can only be avoided in two ways. One way is for Russia and China to surrender and accept Washington’s hegemony. The other way is for an independent leader in Germany, the UK, or France to rise to office and withdraw from NATO. That would begin a stampede to leave NATO, which is Washington’s prime tool for causing conflict with Russia and, thereby, is the most dangerous force on earth to every European country and to the entire world. If NATO continues to exist, NATO together with the neoconservative ideology of American hegemony will make nuclear war inevitable.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 05:04:06 PM by Palloy »
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Offline RE

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #133 on: December 29, 2015, 06:17:44 PM »
Russia could easily take out the parts of Georgia it doesn't already control, linking up with friendly Armenia and Iran, and encircling the former Soviet Republic of Azerbaijan, which could easily throw out its corrupt dictator and change sides.  Then, with almost no effort on Putin's part you would have this:

Since a Tank War is out of the question for NATO on the Georgia border, one suspects they would try to use air power out of Turkey to destroy Putins Tanks once they crossed the Georgia border, citing aggression by Putin as justification.  Putin would of course retaliate by bombing Turkish airbases.  It seems unlikely they would allow Putin to roll over all that territoy unchallenged.

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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: WW3??
« Reply #134 on: December 29, 2015, 07:08:49 PM »
he doesn't spend any time considering factors that might lead to a different outcome than WW3

He did put a few forward eg france, germany or uk pulling out of nato. They dont line up with the facts on the ground like france, uk,  and germanys buildup in syria which is why he left out that minor detail. There was nothing in the article that hasnt been repeated many times and wouldnt be any revelation  we havent already heard, except to the uninformed i thought. Maybe he has blown his wad* already.

*RE, DD 2015  :icon_mrgreen:
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 07:11:22 PM by Uncle Bob »
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