AuthorTopic: Official EV Carz Thread  (Read 23951 times)

Offline RE

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #210 on: February 04, 2019, 12:21:41 PM »
What is the distance? basically it has a heat pump on it that does heating and cooling of the bank and the car. just running the thing heats up the battery some the rest is powered by the battery itself using the heat pump. When its that cold the heat pump would probably be using a heating element since you can't easily exchange heat at that temperature. I think the article mentioned 120 mile range.

Palmer ---> Fairbanks = 330 miles

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« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 12:25:50 PM by RE »
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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #211 on: February 04, 2019, 01:45:04 PM »
What is the distance? basically it has a heat pump on it that does heating and cooling of the bank and the car. just running the thing heats up the battery some the rest is powered by the battery itself using the heat pump. When its that cold the heat pump would probably be using a heating element since you can't easily exchange heat at that temperature. I think the article mentioned 120 mile range.

Palmer ---> Fairbanks = 330 miles

RE
yup not made for the boonies. You dont really hear anyone pushing for adoption in my neck of the woods either. They are made for commuters in the central band of the world which is at least 80 percent of car owners. Cant really blame them.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #212 on: February 04, 2019, 02:14:44 PM »
The Volt would just switch over to its gas engine. Too bad consumers can't be bothered to buy the best engineered passenger car Chevy ever built...and now they quit making them. Par for the course.

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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #213 on: February 04, 2019, 02:26:40 PM »
The Volt would just switch over to its gas engine. Too bad consumers can't be bothered to buy the best engineered passenger car Chevy ever built...and now they quit making them. Par for the course.
yup. The good 5hing is they will be cheap on the used market.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline RE

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #214 on: February 04, 2019, 02:55:59 PM »
The Volt would just switch over to its gas engine. Too bad consumers can't be bothered to buy the best engineered passenger car Chevy ever built...and now they quit making them. Par for the course.

Yes, a hybrid is a better choice, but you still have the problem of a large batt pack that can be damaged by extreme cold weather.

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Offline azozeo

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #215 on: February 04, 2019, 03:13:08 PM »
The Volt would just switch over to its gas engine. Too bad consumers can't be bothered to buy the best engineered passenger car Chevy ever built...and now they quit making them. Par for the course.

Wonder how long GM will cover replacement parts ?
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Offline RE

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🔌 Elon Musk: Model 3 price now starts at $35k -- after incentives
« Reply #216 on: February 06, 2019, 02:26:16 AM »
$35K?  That is $30K TOO MUCH! I haven't paid more for a car than $5K in the last 30 years!

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RE

https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/06/tesla-model-3-price-35k/

Elon Musk: Model 3 price now starts at $35k -- after incentives
Tesla slashes Model 3's prices by $1,100.
Mariella Moon, @mariella_moon
2h ago in Transportation

Roberto Baldwin / Engadget

If you visit Model 3's "Design Your Car" page, you'll notice that it looks a bit more affordable than before. Tesla has lowered its price across versions by $1,100, so you can now get the mid-range battery option for $42,900 before incentives. Meanwhile, the car's long-range version now costs $49,900, while the performance option will set you back $60,900 before savings. Elon Musk said that means Model 3 now has a starting price of $35,000, though that's after you apply tax credits and fuel savings -- you'll have to wait a bit more for a Tesla car with a $35,000 base price. "We're doing everything we can to get there," Musk tweeted. "It's a super hard grind."

Tesla

A spokesperson told Electrek that the price decrease was enabled by the cancellation of the "referral program, which cost far more than [the company] realized." The automaker's referral scheme allowed Tesla owners to give five friends six months of free Supercharging with the purchase of a new vehicle. Apparently, the free charging and other benefits drove up costs too much, compelling the company to end the program on February 1st.

This the second time Tesla slashed Model 3's prices since its federal EV tax credit has been cut in half. In January, it took $2,000 off the prices of all its vehicles to offset the new reduced tax incentives.
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Offline azozeo

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Billionaire Musk releases all Tesla patents to help save the Earth
« Reply #217 on: February 06, 2019, 11:15:46 AM »

SAN FRANCISCO – Elon Musk announced Thursday he had released all of the electric carmaker Tesla’s patents, as part of an effort to fight climate change.

In a blog post, the colorful billionaire founder of Tesla promised the company “will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.”

It was a remarkable move in an industry where the smallest idea or seed of invention is carefully guarded to protect its monetary value.

And it in fact came on the same day US prosecutors charged a Chinese national with stealing secrets from Apple’s self-driving vehicle project.

“Tesla Motors was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport,” Musk said. “If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal.”


https://news.abs-cbn.com/business/02/01/19/billionaire-musk-releases-all-tesla-patents-to-help-save-the-earth?fbclid=IwAR1LnuqoJKxMenn2IVEVQ7o2iCvZhikdEXRvxopFf-danBoPYyEXLoy-PVo
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #218 on: February 06, 2019, 11:35:09 AM »
That's actually an act of serious benevolence. Not sure it'll help much, but I think his heart's in the right place. Maybe he's doing it now because he thinks they're going belly up and he wants to deny the LBO predators the money those patents represents. that's be my guess. I'd do that.
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Official EV Carz Thread
« Reply #219 on: February 06, 2019, 11:58:43 AM »
That's actually an act of serious benevolence. Not sure it'll help much, but I think his heart's in the right place. Maybe he's doing it now because he thinks they're going belly up and he wants to deny the LBO predators the money those patents represents. that's be my guess. I'd do that.

That's a really good thought.

We'll find out.
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Offline RE

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🔌 Carmageddon for Tesla Model 3: US Deliveries Plunge 55% to 60% from Q4
« Reply #220 on: February 10, 2019, 03:20:31 AM »
Bye, Bye Elon.

RE

https://wolfstreet.com/2019/02/09/carmageddon-for-tesla-model-3-us-deliveries-plunge-55-to-60-from-q4-laid-off-delivery-employees-tell-reuters/

Carmageddon for Tesla Model 3: US Deliveries Plunge 55% to 60% from Q4, Laid-off Delivery Employees tell Reuters
by Wolf Richter • Feb 9, 2019 • 47 Comments   


Most everyone in the US who ever wanted & could afford a high-priced Model 3 now has one? Pent-up demand for luxury cars in the era of Carmageddon is a tricky thing, especially when tax credits phase out.

Details trickling out over the 3,200-plus layoffs Tesla announced on January 18 are starting to paint a picture of what is happening on the demand side for the Model 3 in the US. According to two laid-off employees cited by Reuters, the company has gutted its delivery team of 230 people at its Las Vegas facility that delivered tens of thousands of Model 3s to buyers mostly in the US but also in Canada.

About 150 of the 230 employees on the team have been let go, the two sources said who were among those let go, as the company struggles with deliveries that have plunged from the pace in the fourth quarter last year.

The federal tax credit of $7,500 was cut in half to $3,750 at the beginning of the year after Tesla’s EV sales rose past the 200,000-threshold in 2018. Yet the $35,000 Model 3 that CEO Elon Musk promised in 2016 remains a distant promise.

The company already slashed its Model 3 price twice this year to stimulate demand, yet the least expensive Model 3 still has a price tag of $42,900.

“There are not enough deliveries,” one of the laid-off employees told Reuters. “You don’t need a team because there are not that many cars coming through.”

The two laid-off employees said that in the first quarter, delivery targets for North America – mostly buyers in the US but also in Canada – are down 55% to 60% from what they were in Q4 2018.

After a herculean effort late last year, Tesla delivered 145,610 Model 3s in 2018, all of them high-priced luxury versions. During this effort to deliver as many Model 3s as possible while the full federal tax credit of $7,500 was still in effect, the reservation list was “plucked clean” of American buyers “willing to pay current prices,” as Reuters put it, citing those two laid-off employees on the delivery team.

“We sold through just about every car we had on the ground and we called almost every being on the planet who had ever expressed desire to own a Tesla to let them know the tax credit was expiring,” said the other laid-off employee. Late last year, employees around the company were reassigned to pitch in, the source told Reuters.

Reuters said that “Tesla declined to comment on the job reductions in the delivery team.”

Of the 3,200-plus full-time employees to be laid off, at least 1,017 are at facilities in California, according to required disclosures that Tesla filed with the California Employment Development Department, reported by the San Francisco Chronicle on February 6. The layoffs in California will start on March 20:

    802 employees at its plant in Fremont, Alameda County (East Bay), across the board, human resources, quality assurance, delivery experience, sales advisers, service technicians, production associates, 37 manufacturing supervisors, and some manufacturing engineers and technicians.
    137 employees at its warehouse in Lathrop, San Joaquin County (Central Valley); most of them production associates.
    78 employees at its Palo Alto headquarters, Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley), most of them in engineering, including hardware, software, and data engineers.

So what happened to all the reservations Tesla received for Model 3s? Back in July 2017, Musk was out there, being his usual self, promoting the dickens out of Tesla’s stock, saying that over half a million buyers had put down deposits to get their reservation in place for the Model 3, which caused shares to surge. Alas, in 2018, when Tesla actually started selling the Model 3, it delivered 145,610 during the entire year. And now demand is drying up. What happened to the other 300,000-plus reservations? What happened to that pent-up demand?

Analysts wanted to know this too during the earnings call on January 30. And CFO Deepak Ahuja, whose resignation Musk announced minutes later, said: “Reservations are not relevant for us. We are really focused on orders.” And those orders don’t appear to be forthcoming.

Musk shed some light on part of the reasons: “The demand for Model 3 is insanely high. The inhibitor is affordability. It’s just like people literally don’t have the money to buy the car.”

Duh. Yes, that’s a simple fact of life: high-priced luxury goods occupy a small niche in the overall US market.

And then there is this: Americans have veered away from buying “cars.” They’re buying pickup trucks, SUVs, compact SUVs, and vans. Since 2014, annual sales in these “truck” categories have surged 21%, reaching 11.8 million units in 2018, while car sales have plunged 31% to just 5.5 million units – a situation I have come to call “Carmageddon.”

So, Tesla is heroically trying to mass-market expensive luxury “cars” into a small niche of the rapidly shrinking car market.

Now Tesla is focusing on selling the Model 3 in China and Europe, it said. And that’s where most of the Model 3s now being built in Fremont are headed.

Alas, every global manufacturer already has EVs on the market, and their lineups are growing, even in the US. The EVs built by new entrants in the US EV-market will qualify for the full federal tax credit of $7,500 for the first 200,000 vehicles per automaker, while Tesla buyers get $3,750 through the first half of 2019, and only $1,8725 in the second half. And the plunge in demand for the Model 3 shows just how much bunk has been mongered about Model 3 sales not being sensitive to the tax credit, or that the Model 3 could somehow transcend Carmageddon in the US.

Americans love paying big profit margins for big equipment, and automakers love them for it, but total sales are declining, and something doesn’t add up. Read…  New Trucks are Hot, Prices Surge. But Cars Face Carmageddon. And Total Sales Fall 
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Offline azozeo

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Backyard Mechanic takes on Tesla....
« Reply #221 on: March 08, 2019, 01:39:27 PM »


 By Billy Baker, Globe Staff March 04, 2019

SALEM — Three years ago, in his driveway in Salem, Rich Benoit rigged some ropes and pulleys and did something that could modestly be described as a bad idea.

He pulled a 1,300-pound, 400-volt battery out of a Tesla that had been underwater.

And then, with no real clue of what he was doing, he opened it and tried to fix it.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/03/04/the-backyard-mechanic-who-taking-tesla/Sv1l8q2sxpQvTFMp13VFwM/story.html
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Offline RE

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🔌 Tesla’s Mess at the Top: Moody’s Gets Nervous
« Reply #222 on: March 18, 2019, 02:03:01 AM »
https://wolfstreet.com/2019/03/15/teslas-mess-at-the-top-moodys-gets-nervous/

Tesla’s Mess at the Top: Moody’s Gets Nervous
by Wolf Richter • Mar 15, 2019 • 76 Comments • Email to a friend   
Decision-Making Chaos and Epic Strategy Flip-Flops.


“Tesla’s credit profile is strained” despite two “credit-positive” factors, Moody’s writes in a new report: These two credit-positive factors are: One, the repayment of $1.15 billion in maturing convertible debt ($230 million in November and $920 million just now), thus avoiding bankruptcy. Apocalypse not now. And two, after numerous delays and manufacturing hell, being able to mass-produce the Model 3, though “well under Tesla’s original forecasts.” And in terms of the positive, that’s about it. Then the report points at the decision-making chaos at the top.

Moody’s credit rating for Tesla – B3 with negative outlook – is six notches into “junk.” A further downgrade would push the corporate credit rating into the C-range (my cheat-sheet on corporate credit rating scales by Moody’s, S&P, and Fitch). Moody’s already downgraded the $1.8 billion of 5.3% notes, issued in August 2017 and due in August 2025, to Caa1. Friday, these bonds closed at 86.125 cents on the dollar, according to FINRA/Morningstar, trading at a yield of 8.1%.

There are factors outside the company too that get in the way – such as competition. It’s already huge in China, where Tesla is a flyspeck among dozens of EV makers. All foreign automakers will have to offer EVs in China. They’re investing billions of dollars in the brutal Chinese market to figure out how to profitably produce EVs at “affordable” prices.

Tesla can sell its Model 3 for $35,000 if it wants to, but it cannot do so without burning tons of cash. The average selling price of the Model 3s sold so far has been around $60,000, according to Moody’s estimates. That’s the price of a niche luxury car – and way beyond “affordable.”

By creating pent-up demand where people waited for years, Tesla was able to sell the initial batch of these luxury cars. These high-end sales “supported the operating profit generated during the third and fourth quarters of 2018,” Moody’s writes. But to sell the Model 3 in large numbers in the US going forward, Tesla will have to bring the average selling price down to around $35,000 – and do so profitably.

Alas, this “is proving to be very difficult to achieve,” Moody’s says. And this “insight” requires “a major reassessment of the elements of the Model 3 business model.” The math didn’t work from the beginning:

    Tesla’s original plan called for production of the Model 3 to reach 10,000 units per week (or, about 500,000 annually) sometime in 2018 and anticipated that a low-priced Model 3 at approximately $35,000 would generate a gross margin approximating 20%.

    By year-end 2018, weekly production was less than half of the originally-planned rate, and stood at approximately 4,300 units. Tesla’s reported gross margin achieved the 20% target but, importantly, this margin was supported by the sale of Models 3s with an average price that we estimate was about $60,000 rather than the $35,000.

    Tesla has conceded that it would be extremely difficult to generate a profit on Model 3s priced at $35,000. This recognition contributed to significant shifts in operating strategy in an effort to reduce costs.

So to survive its efforts to bring the Model 3 price down, Tesla undertook several erratic cost-cutting measures, and then ended up reversing them even more erratically.

On February 28, Tesla announced that it would shut down most of its 106 retail stores and galleries in the US. The idea was to become largely an online retailer. This was a huge strategic move. No major automaker has yet been able to successfully switch to selling cars online only.

But someone didn’t think this through. There were no negotiations going on with landlords. They heard about it in the news – and called their lawyers. Just because CEO Elon Musk, who walks on water, says so doesn’t mean leases can be broken. It’s serious money: In its annual report, Tesla lists operating-lease obligations of $1.6 billion. Of this, $276 million are due in 2019 and $257 million in 2020. Sure, it would have been nice to shed this expense, along with the other expenses associated with retail outlets, including salaries. Laying off employees is easy, but then the empty stores would still incur lease expenses.

Someone at the company must have finally done the math. So on March 10, there is a sudden and total flip-flop, via Tesla’s blog:

    Over the past two weeks we have been closely evaluating every single Tesla retail location, and we have decided to keep significantly more stores open than previously announced as we continue to evaluate them over the course of several months.

I get it. Musk announces that Tesla would close all stores, and then after the announcement, the company begins to evaluate “every single store” and checks with its lawyers, and reverses the decision. A lesser CEO who can’t walk on water would have done that before the announcement, and would have then scrapped the announcement.

And it gets better, in terms of flip-flops. In February, Tesla announced its second price cut this year for its Model 3, to stimulate demand that has been waning in the US, after the pent-up demand had been absorbed. But cutting prices with sagging volume burns up cash flow in a hurry.

So, on March 10, in the same blog post, Tesla does another epic flip-flop: “As a result of keeping significantly more stores open,” it would need to raise Model 3 prices on average by 3%.

Then there are sudden waves of layoffs after a hiring binge, starting in the summer of 2018, including the announcement in January of 3,200-plus layoffs that included part of the Model 3 delivery team in the US. This was followed by the layoffs entailed in shutting down its retail stores, now on hold, pending further flip-flopping.

Moody’s put this decision-making chaos in perspective:

    Reversals of strategy reflect managerial and planning shortcomings. We believe that Tesla’s decisions to backtrack on plans to significantly scale back its retail outlets; to raise prices on the Model 3 after cutting them; and to make unanticipated employment cuts, all reflect shortcomings in the company planning and decision-making processes.”

Moody’s blames Tesla’s “ongoing pattern of senior management turnover and weak governance” for this decision-making chaos. Never once did it name the guy at the top.

Tesla and Musk had a magic touch when it came to marketing. Walking on water was just a low-level activity. But that was then, and this is now. Read…  Tesla Falls from Grace with Americans, Facebook Plunges to the Ignominious Level of Goldman, Wells Fargo, Sears
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Offline azozeo

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What First Responders Don’t Know About Fiery Electric Vehicles
« Reply #223 on: March 31, 2019, 10:08:31 AM »




Lithium-ion batteries, once ignited, are extremely difficult to douse.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-25/tesla-fires-what-first-responders-don-t-know-about-fiery-evs
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Offline Eddie

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Re: What First Responders Don’t Know About Fiery Electric Vehicles
« Reply #224 on: March 31, 2019, 11:13:33 AM »




Lithium-ion batteries, once ignited, are extremely difficult to douse.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-25/tesla-fires-what-first-responders-don-t-know-about-fiery-evs

This stuff is just spam by those who want to cast aspersions on electric vehicles. It's not exactly like electric cars have a lock on spontaneous combustion. See this biased reporting for what it is....political theater.

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« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 11:29:09 AM by Eddie »
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