AuthorTopic: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter  (Read 17608 times)

Online K-Dog

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Apple kabuki
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2016, 07:46:08 AM »
More kabuki.



The encoded flash files could have already been downloaded into a supercomputer to be thrashed with passport cracking routines until they give up their secrets.  I'll assume the government has access to the right tools for the job of opening the I-phone and 'bonding out' the appropriate flash chips.  I don't think that assumption is much of a stretch but if they have any trouble they can ask the Israelis for help.

Secrets the F.B.I. already knows but like a daddy playing Santa Claus on Christmas this show is for your amusement.  The show must go on.


The amusing thing, knowing nothing about how electronics are assembled (I most certainly do, it is my profession) the guys in the black robes issuing the legal rulings take themselves seriously, not understanding in their August courtrooms that they are servants and patsies of empire.

Do you really think the knowledge to read out the data is proprietary to Apple?  Apple did not make the I-phone.  The I-phone was made in China by subcontractors (Foxconn) using standard components.  The design is far from secure. 

A thinking person should realize that this theatre is a dot of data that suggests false flag.  Theatre would not be part of any real investigation.  This theatre is an insult to any authentic search for justice.
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Apple kabuki
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2016, 11:25:47 AM »
The encoded flash files could have already been downloaded into a supercomputer to be thrashed with passport cracking routines until they give up their secrets.  I'll assume the government has access to the right tools for the job of opening the I-phone and 'bonding out' the appropriate flash chips.  I don't think that assumption is much of a stretch but if they have any trouble they can ask the Israelis for help.

Secrets the F.B.I. already knows but like a daddy playing Santa Claus on Christmas this show is for your amusement.  The show must go on.

The amusing thing, knowing nothing about how electronics are assembled (I most certainly do, it is my profession) the guys in the black robes issuing the legal rulings take themselves seriously, not understanding in their August courtrooms that they are servants and patsies of empire.

Do you really think the knowledge to read out the data is proprietary to Apple?  Apple did not make the I-phone.  The I-phone was made in China by subcontractors (Foxconn) using standard components.  The design is far from secure. 

A thinking person should realize that this theatre is a dot of data that suggests false flag.  Theatre would not be part of any real investigation.  This theatre is an insult to any authentic search for justice.
Someone, I think it might have been on the Market Ticker, explained what is really going on.  This isn't kabuki, this is legal drama.  It never was about getting the information off the phone.  It is about getting the information off the phone in a manner that preserves it beyond reasonable doubt.  The FBI wants a method that they can use in court as evidence.  Many hacker schemes fail that legal criterion.
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Online K-Dog

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Re: Apple kabuki
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2016, 01:19:08 PM »
The encoded flash files could have already been downloaded into a supercomputer to be thrashed with passport cracking routines until they give up their secrets.  I'll assume the government has access to the right tools for the job of opening the I-phone and 'bonding out' the appropriate flash chips.  I don't think that assumption is much of a stretch but if they have any trouble they can ask the Israelis for help.

Secrets the F.B.I. already knows but like a daddy playing Santa Claus on Christmas this show is for your amusement.  The show must go on.

The amusing thing, knowing nothing about how electronics are assembled (I most certainly do, it is my profession) the guys in the black robes issuing the legal rulings take themselves seriously, not understanding in their August courtrooms that they are servants and patsies of empire.

Do you really think the knowledge to read out the data is proprietary to Apple?  Apple did not make the I-phone.  The I-phone was made in China by subcontractors (Foxconn) using standard components.  The design is far from secure. 

A thinking person should realize that this theatre is a dot of data that suggests false flag.  Theatre would not be part of any real investigation.  This theatre is an insult to any authentic search for justice.
Someone, I think it might have been on the Market Ticker, explained what is really going on.  This isn't kabuki, this is legal drama.  It never was about getting the information off the phone.  It is about getting the information off the phone in a manner that preserves it beyond reasonable doubt.  The FBI wants a method that they can use in court as evidence.  Many hacker schemes fail that legal criterion.

Explain to me then what they need evidence for.  I agree this is legal drama and they would like the legal precedent set but that also means they already have the contents of the phone.  With the actors/perpetrators/pawns and patsys dead there is no need for evidence because there is nobody to bring to court.  No way to even get to court without someone to try and while they play kabuki the 'valuable evidence' sits in a sealed evidence bag.  If the investigation is important at all that means the info has already been downloaded. 

If they have the contents they will have no trouble getting a court to sign off on any warrants leads on the phone produce.  That assumes of course that they even bother with warrants before they put someone else under a microscope.  I can attest from personal experience that they do not bother.

Your troll on Market Ticker was spinning a legal fiction and has had little experience with law.  At the least they are merely ignorant about what it means for an FBI agent to testify under oath.  At the most they are a player in the chess game in which only one side knows a game is being played.

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Offline Surly1

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Re: Apple kabuki
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2016, 03:17:16 AM »
The encoded flash files could have already been downloaded into a supercomputer to be thrashed with passport cracking routines until they give up their secrets.  I'll assume the government has access to the right tools for the job of opening the I-phone and 'bonding out' the appropriate flash chips.  I don't think that assumption is much of a stretch but if they have any trouble they can ask the Israelis for help.

Secrets the F.B.I. already knows but like a daddy playing Santa Claus on Christmas this show is for your amusement.  The show must go on.

The amusing thing, knowing nothing about how electronics are assembled (I most certainly do, it is my profession) the guys in the black robes issuing the legal rulings take themselves seriously, not understanding in their August courtrooms that they are servants and patsies of empire.

Do you really think the knowledge to read out the data is proprietary to Apple?  Apple did not make the I-phone.  The I-phone was made in China by subcontractors (Foxconn) using standard components.  The design is far from secure. 

A thinking person should realize that this theatre is a dot of data that suggests false flag.  Theatre would not be part of any real investigation.  This theatre is an insult to any authentic search for justice.
Someone, I think it might have been on the Market Ticker, explained what is really going on.  This isn't kabuki, this is legal drama.  It never was about getting the information off the phone.  It is about getting the information off the phone in a manner that preserves it beyond reasonable doubt.  The FBI wants a method that they can use in court as evidence.  Many hacker schemes fail that legal criterion.

I thought tht part of the agenda was encryption: bad, law enforcement: good. To generate support for corpstate's assault on encryption products, because anyting that transacts beyond th reach of the panopticon is terrorism by definition.
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Online K-Dog

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2016, 08:32:49 AM »
Quote
Anything that transacts beyond the reach of the panopticon is terrorism by definition.

Yes, everyone involved in AI wants a piece of the action and encryption is a thorn in the side of liquid surveillance.  Not enough goodies to go around means some get none and the way to decide who gets what and maximize docility is to develop computational algorithms which surveil without human interaction via big data.  Encryption stops big data and must be eliminated from the social organism.  Motivation and choice are ignored as big data extracts network connections and the terrorist becomes defined merely as data point outliers who don't fit in.  Unforeseen by Orwell or Huxley in their dystopian future visions is that the watchers and the watched would not define separate social classes but that social inequity would become institutionalized by computers which by the use of AI algorithms would manage social structure guaranteeing that those who have keep what they have and that the impoverished remain impoverished.

The singularity will never be but the "Will of Landru" shall emerge. 



This new vision of our emerging dystopian future was first articulated in "The Return of the Archons" Star Trek. episode #21 which aired February 9, 1967.

Those hired by the Department of Homeland Security and the Army to monitor the internet will find what they believed to be secure employment is employment which will now be replaced by autonomous cyber systems as they rejoin the ranks of the watched and are replaced by machines.

The chewy center of the panopticon becomes inhabited by silicon brains devoid of humanity.

******

While this may seem farfetched it is less farfetched than the notion that the FBI actually need the contents of that phone.
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Online K-Dog

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More 'Will of Landru'.
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2016, 08:53:08 AM »
I just heard that mass media currently is complaining that hospital privacy laws in Belgium are preventing them access to information they need to spin a wider web of fear.  Mass media wants to sensationalize the injuries of the Belgium attack victims but bad 'privacy laws' are being made part of the story as it prevents mass media exploitation of victim injuries.

Encription is privacy and privacy must be eliminated so big data can triumph and control.  Big data is the soup du jour and mass media factotums have gotten the memo.  Privacy shall belong to the elite only.  That hospital patients should have privacy is not to be allowed in the panopticon.  Their social standing is too low.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2016, 05:01:35 PM »
It's over.  It certainly was a melodrama, but there is still no proof that Apple was part of it - in fact they clearly lost out of it, and would never have taken part in the melodrama if they had known its outcome.  Now they have to work out a way of migrating the old OS to the newer one, which already has better encryption, or else offer everyone a cheap upgrade to a new phone and OS.  And OS 7 will no doubt be even better, and OS 8 ...  "Get the latest new thing, which is so much better than the old latest new thing."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-28/us-drops-case-against-apple-after-fbi-successfully-hacks-terrorists-iphone
US Drops Case Against Apple After FBI Successfully Hacks Terrorist's iPhone
Tyler Durden
03/28/2016

Dear Tim Cook, the DoJ and FBI will no longer require your assistance in unlocking the iPhone of Syed Farook who, along with his wife Tashfeen Malik, murdered more than a dozen people at an employee holiday party in San Bernardino last December.

    U.S. DROPS APPLE CASE AFTER SUCCESSFULLY ACCESSING IPHONE DATA

As we outlined last week, Israel's Cellebrite, a provider of mobile forensic software, was set to assist the Feds in their attempt to unlock the iPhone. “The government has now successfully accessed the data stored on Farook’s iPhone and therefore no longer requires the assistance from Apple,” the Justice Department said in a filing (embedded below). Here's the mainstream media line from The New York Times:

    Yet law enforcement’s ability to unlock an iPhone through an alternative method raises new uncertainties, including questions about the strength of Apple’s security on its devices. The development also creates potential for new conflicts between the government and Apple. Lawyers for Apple have previously said that the company would want to know the method used to crack open the device. The government may make that method classified.

    “From a legal standpoint, what happened in the San Bernardino case doesn’t mean the fight is over,” said Esha Bhandari, a staff attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union. She noted that the government generally goes through a process whereby it decides whether to disclose information about certain vulnerabilities so that manufacturers can patch them.

    “I would hope they would give that information to Apple so that it can patch any weaknesses,” she said, “but if the government classifies the tool, that suggests it may not.”

Right. Or this could all be nonsense. That is, Apple may have just made America an unwitting participant in an iPublicity stunt, as it were. As we suggested just five days ago, "the entire Apple 'stand' for privacy and consumer rights might be one big theatrical spectacle as both parties involved clearly were aware the iPhone can be penetrated with the right tools." Here's AP:

    The FBI says it successfully used a mysterious technique without Apple's help to break into an iPhone linked to the gunman in a California mass shooting.

    The surprise development effectively ends a pitched court battle between Apple and the Obama administration.

    The government told a federal court Monday without any details that it accessed data on gunman Syed Farook's iPhone and no longer requires Apple's assistance. Farook and his wife died in a gun battle with police after killing 14 people in San Bernardino, California, in December.

    Apple did not immediately comment on the development.

    A U.S. magistrate last month ordered Apple to provide the FBI with software to help it hack into Farook's work-issued iPhone. The order touched off a debate pitting digital privacy rights against national security concerns.

So just like that, it's all over. No hard feelings. And all of this on the heels of what is almost sure to go down as one of the biggest product launch flops in company history. The timing of it all certainly leaves us with more questions than answers.

306201341 DOJ Requests SB iPhone Order Vacated
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2016, 05:22:23 PM »
I''d bet they didn't get jack shit off that phone, as far as useful info for "fighting terrorists".

All that hacking to get his iTunes playlist and few phone numbers that have already been disconnected.
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Offline RE

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2016, 05:35:02 PM »
Another possibility here is that the FBI is just BLUFFING that they hacked the phone.  Are they revealing any significant data they got off the phone?  Nope.  Have they made any arrests based on data hacked from said phone?  Nope.

Pure Theater, designed to soften up the public for less privacy based on the ever-present "terrorist threat" and gobs of child pornography stored on smart phones.

Far as the terrorists go, if they are on a suicide bombing mission, WTF would you leave a working phone behind when you push the button?  Have a little slot in your bomb vest to drop the phone into when you blow yourself up, and blow it to smithereens!  Good luck to the FBI reassembling the melted chips.

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« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2016, 06:13:51 PM »
Just put a Self Destruct Button on the device that wipes all the fucking data!


Even if you don't wanna kill yourself, when cornered by the Gestapo you hit the self-destruct button!

RE
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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2016, 07:56:17 PM »
I used to test flash memory for an MP3 player prototype.  Removing the flash chips from a phone and reading them out so password cracking software can have at the flash contents is no big deal with the right tools.  The chips I tested were the same kind of chips used in I-phones. 

You can bet your last dollar this was not the first time the FBI wanted to read flash memory contents.  This being true they already had procedures in place for what to do so they did not need any outside help to begin with.  This whole brouhaha was a total distraction to keep our eyes off whatever balls they really have in play.

If I could have done it, and I certainly could have, then there was no reason to bring Cellebrite or anyone else in.  Once the files are in a supercomputer it is only a matter of time before passwords are found.

Which MP3 Player was it you may wonder.  This was the one:



So the question is, why the theatre?  Having to 'unlock' the phone was just plain stupid but if one does not have a BSEE degree, which I do, how would you know that.  You wouldn't.

One way it might be done is to dissolve the flash chip black epoxy package in solvent.  The bare silicon chips could then be re-bonded with a wire bonder.  I have used wire bonding equipment myself and it is very easy to use.  Line up the cross-hairs and press a button.  That is about all there is too it and I used to remove old wire bonds with a wooden skewer.  The same kind of skewer used for meat kebabs which are sold in grocery stores everywhere.  A gentle push sideways under a microscope is all it takes and it is amazing how delicate and precise your hands can be when working under a microscope.  The pointed tip makes the perfect tool.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2016, 10:11:03 PM »
Nobody was claiming that they couldn't read flash memory, or the TPM chip either.  They had to read both, obviously.  Then they had to "un-hash" the password from the memory and the phone's ID from the TPM, combine them somehow, and use that as the key to decrypt the filestore (encrypted in AES-256).  Since un-hash is difficult, if not impossible, especially when the result is just a random string of bits, and there are two un-hashes to be done, they could have worked out how long a time it would take (on average) to crack it, and how much it would cost in terms of computer resources.

Quote
"Once the files are in a supercomputer it is only a matter of time before passwords are found." 

Yes, but it might be millions of years away. 

AES gives 2256 level of protection, so why would the Apple key-generating algorithm have less protection than that? - it might have, but then that would make it the thing to target, not the AES encryption.

Then they would have compared that solution with: the public embarrassment of having to go to Apple and admit they couldn't decrypt it themselves, and asking for help, which they knew would be denied, then going to court and getting a ruling against Apple, or not, but with the future pay-off that they could then use the method to crack any iPhone 5c - maybe 100 million phones in the whole world.

And it was Farook's work phone, which he didn't destroy, not his terrorist phone, which he did destroy, so it probably didn't have anything of interest in it anyway.  And they had the iCloud backup from six months ago, which showed nothing.

OK, so considering all that, they had a difficult decision to make, and chose to go the court route AND Cellebrite, and keeping open the option of simply declaring that they had cracked it and got something useful from it, without ever saying what.

And we will NEVER know the truth, but that won't stop anybody from pontificating on the issue.
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Online K-Dog

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2016, 09:05:54 AM »
Palloy, I was talking to someone last week about password cracking algorithms.  There are some programs which do a very good job and produce excellent results.  The trick is not to have to try every possibility but to make intelligent guesses.  Combine an advanced password cracking algorithm with a supercomputer which has a few thousand threads of execution running on multiple cores and your millions of years might only be twenty minutes.

Guessing 'Praise Allah' in Arabic is not that hard to do.  I guessed 'Praise Allah' right here right now and all I have to do now is translate it.

But these technical details detract from the original point.  The FBI did not need Apple to unlock the phone.  The whole point of unlocking allegedly was so they could try multiple passwords on the phone.  Using an unlocked phone and hand entry it could indeed take millions of years to find a password.  A locked phone only allowed three attempts but unlocking it really could not have helped much.

By pointing out the AES gives 2 to the 256th power of unique combinations you actually have made the point that the whole Apple FBI drama was theatre because unlocking the phone was giving the FBI nothing the FBI did not already have.  Also Apple does not have any special ability to unhash a hash that the FBI does not already have and hashes are not unhashed anyway.  Candidate passwords are hashed and then compared to a known hash.  Hashing generally goes in only one direction.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2016, 08:21:53 PM »
Guessing passwords would only work against unsophisticated users (which is most people, but not Al Qaeda operatives), so yes it COULD only take 20 minutes, but with a decent password it could easily take 10 years on a machine costing $10,000 / day to run.  Maybe they can afford the $36,500,000 , but 10 years is an impractical wait-time.

By writing "un-hash" (in quotes) I was taking a short-cut for our non-technical readers - hash is indeed a one way function.  Hashes can be worked out in advance to save time (rainbow tables), but then again it is easy to change a hashing algorithm and the number of times the hash is repeated on itself, and the seeding algorithm, so Apple can make it as complicated as they like, until the algorithm has more than 2256 solutions, at which point it is stronger than AES-256 and not the most vulnerable point.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: Judge orders Apple to access iPhone belonging to San Bernadino shooter
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2016, 02:52:41 PM »
Google can remotely reset the password on Android phones.   :o
"We carefully scrutinize subpoenas and court orders to make sure they meet both the letter and spirit of the law," a Google spokesman said in a statement.
Oh well, that's all right then - carry on!   :o :o

There's not enough information here to fully understand the implications of this, but it means that if you switch on your Android phone and it is already unlocked, you should destroy it.  Definitely do NOT take it home and sync it over your wifi/bluetooth/USB(OTG) link to your PC.

http://thehackernews.com/2016/03/unlock-google-android.html
Google has also been Ordered to Unlock 9 Android Phones
March 30, 2016
Swati Khandelwal

The legal battle between Apple and the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) over a locked iPhone that belonged to one of the San Bernardino shooters may be over, but the Department of Justice (DoJ) are back in front of a judge with a similar request.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has discovered publicly available court documents that revealed the government has asked Google’s assistance to help the Feds hack into at least nine locked Android smartphones citing the All Writs Act.

Yes, Apple is not the only company facing government requests over privacy and security — Google is also in the list.

The Google court documents released by the ACLU show that many federal agencies have been using the All Writs Act – the same ancient law the DoJ was invoking in the San Bernardino case to compel Apple to help the FBI in the terrorist investigation.

Additionally, the ACLU also released 54 court cases in which the federal authorities asked Apple for assistance to help them access information from a locked iPhone. However, this is the first time it has confirmed that Google has also received such requests.

All the cases appear to be closed, and the company is believed to have complied with all of the court orders. As in the majority of cases, Google was required to reset the passwords or bypass the lock screens of Samsung, HTC phones, Kyocera and Alcatel, among a number of other unidentified Android devices.

Unlike Apple, Google Can Reset Android Devices Remotely

In 2015, the New York District Attorney revealed that Google can remotely reset Android device password, in case a court demands access to it.

In other words, unlike Apple, Google has technical abilities to reset device passcode for about 74% of Android users (~Billions) running all versions older than Android 5.0 Lollipop that does not have full disk encryption.


Google had been ordered for technical assistance by many federal agencies over several cases including:

    The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in an investigation of an alleged child pornographer in California.
    The FBI in the investigation of an alleged cocaine dealer, who go by the name “Grumpy,” in New Mexico.
    The Bureau of Land Management in the investigation of an alleged marijuana grow operation in Oregon
    The Secret Service in an unknown court case in North Carolina.

However, Google said none of the cases required the company to write new backdoored software for the federal government.

    "We carefully scrutinize subpoenas and court orders to make sure they meet both the letter and spirit of the law," a Google spokesman said in a statement. "However, we have never received an All Writs Act order like the one Apple recently fought that demands we build new tools that actively compromise our products’ security….We would strongly object to such an order."

No doubt, 1789 All Writs Act is being misused as a tool against encryption, which was never intended to allow the government to dictate software design.
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