AuthorTopic: Golden Oxen's Newz Channel  (Read 165794 times)

Offline agelbert

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Free Speech is not a license to engage in Fascist Buillshit
« Reply #1350 on: March 19, 2018, 01:58:30 PM »

Eddie and Surly, I must admit I cannot figure out why you continue to attempt to reason with  (GO).

If you want to just keep some dialogue going for the sake of views, then that is understandable...

I argue with RE on this score as well.

Politically, GO and I will never agree. Yet this is a man susceptible to the arguments of Chris Hedges, who I think we can all agree is one of the smartest guys in the room and a man of impeccable morality. Politics aside, GO has made many contributions to this forum which I find useful and helpful. Edifying, even. When he goes ad hom (or when you or I do), we get to take our respective vocabularies for a walk, vent some spleen, but really accomplish nothing.  An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, etc.

I can be as sanctimonious as the next motherfucker, but what does that make me? An asshole. At least I have the satisfaction of being correct, but I'm not going to convince GO of anything. He will have to convince himself. IN the fullness of time, I think he will, although he might not admit it. This place has a decided leftward twist, so GO has chosen a tough room in which to make a living. Yet he shows up here every day for the give-and-take. GO is so far to the right he thinks Eddie is a lefty, which is actually pretty funny. He's anything but. I grew up the son of a trade union Dem, picked up some academic leftism in college, but consider myself to have the same attitudes my father had. It's the world that's gone and done spun to the right, making people like me look like communists.

One can only show admiration for a man who shows he can take a punch. Having taken plenty of my own along the way, I do, anyhow.

This just in: it's only words. I give AZ a good thwok between the shoulder blades when he posts strange stuff, and find no difficulty arguing with Palloy or even RE. Hell, especially RE. If I'm not pissing on his shoes one every two weeks or so he thinks I don't love him anymore.

RE started the Diner Forum as a forum for untrammeled free speech and vigorous disputation. We'd be insulting the premises of this place if we offered anything less. As for Continuing an ongoing conversation with GO, when it comes to politics I will defend my turf, but feel free to enjoy the other aspects of his offerings, whether it's the statue of a pilgrim or an appreciation for the fine points of corned beef.

Maybe it's because I'm keenly aware of my own mortality, but I find myself thinking of the old quote, "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." And let's keepit in perspective: by the simple fact of showing up here, we all recognize the fact that we're all doomed.

Surly, how do you know that Golden Oxen is not putting up a sympathetic front appearing to be susceptible to the arguments of Chris Hedges?

A long time ago on this forum you argued with me stating you "did not believe GO is a racist". He is. I knew it then. You resisted, and probably still resist, believing it. All those pictures of the downtrodden that GO posts, just like his claim to celebrate all that Chris Hedges stands for, is not credible. GO can sound SO sympathitic and SO reasonable for a while. Then one fine day he blurts out what he really thinks. If you want to believe he is just "on the rag" that day, fine. I vigorously disagree.

I could write for HOURS about what I have observed from Mr. GO passive aggressive fun and games for the last 5 years or so, but you have been there too, so I will leave you to ponder whether GO is stringing you along or not.  ;)  8)

This is not about sanctimony, it is about TRUTH and OBJECTIVE DISCOURSE.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 02:20:06 PM by agelbert »
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Offline Palloy2

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Re: Golden Oxen's Newz Channel
« Reply #1351 on: March 19, 2018, 02:04:10 PM »
I am being actively censored by AG.
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Online RE

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Re: Golden Oxen's Newz Channel
« Reply #1352 on: March 19, 2018, 02:10:17 PM »
I am being actively censored by AG.

I'll leave this one up to explain.

AG has his own board, as do you.  You can each run your own boards as you see fit.

You are not "censored" anywhere else on the Diner, although you might be moderated if your posting gets too ad hom.

RE
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Offline agelbert

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Re:I am being actively censored by AG.
« Reply #1353 on: March 19, 2018, 02:11:38 PM »
I am being actively censored by AG.

And you will continue to be as long as you insist on pushing mendacious, but clever, fossil fuel friendly happy talk that threatens the future of the human species. Have a nice day.  :icon_sunny:
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Goldne Oxen said: That's the group your a member of, would think long and hard about staying in it and espousing their hate mongering, crybaby loser, unpatriotic and destructive  behavior Eddie.

No it's not. You are deliberately misrepresenting my POV, which is ad hom. Lay off,
or I'll tell you what team I think you're on. Anyone who follows your posts gets wise to your game after a while. Don't think you can play schoolyard games with me. This ain't my first rodeo. I'm nicer to you than I should be, most of the time. Don't take advantage.







We differ in our opinion of who and what Donald Trump is.

Hillary Clinton, and Obama have not moved on, that's the problem.

Both lumps of shit continue their venomous attacks, unprecedented in American pride, in insulting and defecating on our President and the disgusted with the status quo millions of our fellow citizens who saw fit to vote for him.

No. Just no.

Fox "News" (sic) avers that Trump and HRC are somehow "bickering." I put it to you to count up the number of times Trump has mentioned Clinton compared to the opposite. Trump rage-tweets about HRC and calls her a name almost every day, especially when he needs to keep his base of dupes riled. Punching down is a crowd-pleaser. The only mention HRC has made lately of Orange Hitler is that she accused Trump of having “quite an affinity for dictators” and said he “really likes their authoritarian posturing and behavior.”

That's the self-evident truth.

Fat Nixon has arguably spent an inordinate amount of time on social media attacking a person whom he defeated, leading to the $64 question: Is Trump obsessed with Hillary Clinton? He certainly finds her to be convenient.

And Obama? Really? Since decamping, he has comported himself with the same dignity that he displayed while Presidentin' While Black.


Quote
Both lumps of shit continue their venomous attacks, unprecedented in American pride, in insulting and defecating on our President and the disgusted with the status quo millions of our fellow citizens who saw fit to vote for him.

"Lumps of shit," "venomous attacks," insulting and defecating." Sounds like projection to me.

You want to prove that assertion?
Show your work. Post it here, and source it from some reputable news source. If it exists, i'd like to see it, because I comb through the sewers of the internet each day compiling a digest, and I have yet to find it. But I'm just an old crank with a hobby.

I'm betting you can't, because evidence of such behavior on the part of HRC or BHO, that is, behavior equivalent to the outrages committed by the current resident of the White House, does not exist outside of the fevered imaginations of right wing fantasts or operators of Macedonian web sites.


Well said, Surly.

Eddie and Surly, I must admit I cannot figure out why you continue to attempt to reason with   

If you want to just keep some dialogue going for the sake of views, then that is understandable, but Golden Oxen, consistent pseudo-Christian devoted worshipper of gold and himself, is enamored of Trump. Therefore, he cannot be reasoned with.

Golden Oxen hypocritically rails about government corruption that he "claims to be against" and is silent as DEATH when massive real estate FRAUD by "private" enterprize Trump India hotels business partner is caught DOING in India what Trump has AWAYS DONE EVERYWHERE, whether in government or out of it (it's in the news today  ;D).

The irrelevant half truths constantly being recycled by the Trumpers (Obama was "worse", Hillary evil, etc. Ad Nausem) are so transparently obvious attempts at distraction from Tump's Traiterous Governmental Corruption and Crime Spree that they would be worthy of pity if they weren't pushed so repeatedly by the fascist/Libertarian Kochroaches trying to destroy the last vestiges of individual freedom and liberty we have in this country.

As I said about six months ago, Golden Oxen has gone fully into Orwellian mindfuck 😈. That is what Trumpers 🦀 in a desperate attempt to keep people from seeing that it is they 😈 who have all the mens rea dastardly society destroying activity that they accuse others of. 


Trumpers, like Trump, are "wise" in their own eyes. Golden Oxen is an unapologetic Trumper.

Quote
Do you see a man wise in his own eyes?

There is more hope for a fool than for him. Proverbs 26:12

In my view, we can either respond to GO's posts and try to make our dissenting case in a reasonable way, or we can do something we like a lot less, which is not let him make his posts (and I'd hate to do that), or put him under moderation, which is way more work than I want to do.

What I don't like to do is allow comments I strongly disagree with to stand up with no dissent.  I favor open dialog and even heated arguments to censorship....and censorship is a "gotcha" that GO likes to use to claim he isn't treated fairly. I won't play that game. I'd rather just tell him when I disagree. And that's not just GO, but anybody. I favor letting people speak their piece, and then calling them out if it seems necessary. And anybody can be wrong. I'm wrong a lot, and I try to be willing to listen to other people's POV.

I guess I ran Knarf off arguing with his SJW and #MeToo posts. I hope not. I just like to say what's on my mind. I try to be respectful to everyone. 

At heart, GO wants to be part of a group that thinks just like he does. He want to belong. He also likes to suck up to people he considers special, like Ashvin and LD.  He always writes them such effusive compliments, he's practically falling all over himself. It's completely transparent. But I think he often makes good points, and he's a good man. Libertarian belief systems resonate with me. But I've learned that for most high profile people, the powerful people of our world, that it's an excuse and a smokescreen.

If you read what Charles Koch says in an interview, you'd think he was a great guy and a genius. In reality, he's committed more atrocities than you can list. You have to judge on what people do, and not just on what they say.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online RE

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In my view, we can either respond to GO's posts and try to make our dissenting case in a reasonable way, or we can do something we like a lot less, which is not let him make his posts (and I'd hate to do that), or put him under moderation, which is way more work than I want to do.

What I don't like to do is allow comments I strongly disagree with to stand up with no dissent.  I favor open dialog and even heated arguments to censorship....and censorship is a "gotcha" that GO likes to use to claim he isn't treated fairly. I won't play that game. I'd rather just tell him when I disagree. And that's not just GO, but anybody. I favor letting people speak their piece, and then calling them out if it seems necessary. And anybody can be wrong. I'm wrong a lot, and I try to be willing to listen to other people's POV.

It gets more time consuming to respond to all the ad hom and Trumpovetsky Propaganda GO posts than to just moderate it.  It's also a violation of the CoC to complain about censorship, so just shit-can those posts also.  Takes much less time out of your day than writing a detailed point-by-point refutation of complete nonsense.

Quote
I guess I ran Knarf off arguing with his SJW and #MeToo posts. I hope not. I just like to say what's on my mind. I try to be respectful to everyone.

Knarf goes Walkabout regularly.  He's a sensitive guy and when his belief system is challenged, it upsets him.  He'll return at some point I would wager. 

Quote
At heart, GO wants to be part of a group that thinks just like he does. He want to belong. He also likes to suck up to people he considers special, like Ashvin and LD.  He always writes them such effusive compliments, he's practically falling all over himself. It's completely transparent. But I think he often makes good points, and he's a good man. Libertarian belief systems resonate with me. But I've learned that for most high profile people, the powerful people of our world, that it's an excuse and a smokescreen.

No he doesn't.  He likes to be in a group where he is in the minority and can fight with people.  If he wanted to be part of a group where he would fit in, it would be on TBP.  His fawning over certain people is positively repulsive.  All his "Geniuses" like Elon Muskrat, and Kunstler.  ::) Gimmee a break.

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Offline agelbert

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Exactly
« Reply #1356 on: March 19, 2018, 02:42:24 PM »
I am being actively censored by AG.

I'll leave this one up to explain.

AG has his own board, as do you.  You can each run your own boards as you see fit.

You are not "censored" anywhere else on the Diner, although you might be moderated if your posting gets too ad hom.

RE


Exactly. I answered Palloy with a very specific statement about a very specific issue. Palloy is lying that I censor him just to be a meany. In fact his  comment on pulleys to bring a tree down is still there on my channel. I read it and left it there because it contained no bullshit.  ;D

Surly apparently has come to a position in life where he respects people who can "take a punch". I guess that means he believes I cannot. And this "eye for an eye leaves everybody blind" business is simply not applicable when the main purpose of posts is to dissemate truth and objective discourse. It kinda bothers me that there are people out there doing everything they can to destroy our future as a species. If anybody here wants to claim I am being sanctimoneous or overly sensitive by labelling those who push lies and doubletalk as enemies not worthy of engaging in discourse, fine. I vigorously disagree.

I engaged bullshitters like MKing and several others that curse this forum for a while. After their heinous positions have become clear, to allow them to continue in their shameless efforts to repeat society and biosphere damaging propaganda, is GIVING THEM A PLATFORM TO CONTINUE PUSHING THEIR BULLSHIT. To encourage or allow said destructive disourse simply because we all should be kind to each other is like asking the burglar if he checked the other place you have the silverware before he leaves. Love thy Neighbor as thyself does not now, or ever did, mean to not call them out on LIES. In fact, going along to get along because "we are all in the same doomed boat" is NOT showing respect for them.

Of course, I will never make a lot of friends or infuence many people. I SPEAK FOR TRUTH AND THE WELFARE OF HUMANITY, not to win any popularity contests. Sanctimoneous? Yeah, if the last statement is a bit of holier than thou hypocrisy. I'm a lot of things, but I am not a hypocrite.

Sanctimonious, thin skinned, can't take a punch Agelbert?




 

 


« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 03:03:55 PM by agelbert »
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Offline agelbert

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Hypocritical Sucking up
« Reply #1357 on: March 19, 2018, 03:21:59 PM »
Hypocritical Sucking up by GO.

Eddie, If you pick up on the overly dulcet flattery that comes off as baloney, what makes you think the dialogue is sincere when said person is not in the "you are the greatest" mode?

As RE said,
Quote
His fawning over certain people is positively repulsive.  All his "Geniuses" like Elon Muskrat, and Kunstler.  ::) Gimmee a break. - RE

Eddie said:
Quote
Eddie said:
In my view, we can either respond to GO's posts and try to make our dissenting case in a reasonable way, or we can do something we like a lot less, which is not let him make his posts (and I'd hate to do that), or put him under moderation, which is way more work than I want to do.

What I don't like to do is allow comments I strongly disagree with to stand up with no dissent.  I favor open dialog and even heated arguments to censorship....and censorship is a "gotcha" that GO likes to use to claim he isn't treated fairly. I won't play that game. I'd rather just tell him when I disagree. And that's not just GO, but anybody. I favor letting people speak their piece, and then calling them out if it seems necessary. And anybody can be wrong. I'm wrong a lot, and I try to be willing to listen to other people's POV.

I guess I ran Knarf off arguing with his SJW and #MeToo posts. I hope not. I just like to say what's on my mind. I try to be respectful to everyone. 

At heart, GO wants to be part of a group that thinks just like he does. He want to belong. He also likes to suck up to people he considers special, like Ashvin and LD.  He always writes them such effusive compliments, he's practically falling all over himself. It's completely transparent. But I think he often makes good points, and he's a good man. Libertarian belief systems resonate with me. But I've learned that for most high profile people, the powerful people of our world, that it's an excuse and a smokescreen.

If you read what Charles Koch says in an interview, you'd think he was a great guy and a genius. In reality, he's committed more atrocities than you can list. You have to judge on what people do, and not just on what they say.

Eddie, what a man SAYS IS IMPORTANT to determine if said person is untrustworthy when YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID IS FALSE! That's what you just said about the Kochroaches.

WHY do you think GO, a fierce defender of policies that have indisputably caused, and continue to cause, people to DIE EVERY DAY IN THIS COUNTRY is not bullshittting you?

How LONG do you give an unapologetic Trump supporter, who would rather have his tongue cut out than admit the INDISPUTABLE TRUTH THAT the Koch Libertarians are a pack of predatory murderers solidifying the profit over people and planet Oligarchy in the USA, the "benefit of continued dialogue"? 

HELLO?
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Golden Oxen's Newz Channel
« Reply #1358 on: March 19, 2018, 04:07:37 PM »
Quote from: AG
Surly apparently has come to a position in life where he respects people who can "take a punch". I guess that means he believes I cannot.

When I feel you need my special flavor of moral uplift, I will hit you with a 2x4 myself. At no time did I address you or give you reason to think I was inferring something about you. I was attempting to answer the question you posed in good faith.
Quit borrowing trouble.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 03:48:40 AM by Surly1 »
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Surly1

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RE started the Diner Forum as a forum for untrammeled free speech and vigorous disputation. We'd be insulting the premises of this place if we offered anything less. As for Continuing an ongoing conversation with GO, when it comes to politics I will defend my turf, but feel free to enjoy the other aspects of his offerings, whether it's the statue of a pilgrim or an appreciation for the fine points of corned beef.

"Untrammeled Free Speech" is one thing, non-stop Ad Hom, resorting to Logical Fallacies and outright LYING is another.  That's why after dealing with this shit from Moriarty for a couple of years we had to institute moderation.  "Moderation" is not "Censorship".  It's an effort to keep the debate to topic and prevent posters from lighting the board up with Napalm.  If you don't do it, your board gets infested with Smokeys (see TBP in the old days) and no reasonable conversation takes place, just a contest of insults.

Also a reminder to all Admins.  Members complaining about "Censorship" on the Diner is a Violation of the CoC.  Any post that complains about censorship goes to the DNF file.

RE

Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Golden Oxen's News Channel
« Reply #1360 on: April 06, 2018, 09:16:47 AM »
  ;D ;D :icon_mrgreen:


                       

Offline Surly1

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Re: Golden Oxen's News Channel
« Reply #1361 on: April 06, 2018, 09:33:01 AM »
  ;D ;D :icon_mrgreen:


                       

Well played.

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Golden Oxen

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Several people have been killed in the city of Muenster, in western Germany, after a van drove into pedestrians.

The driver of the vehicle has killed himself, police said, without providing further details. They are not looking for more suspects.

About 30 people are reported injured in the incident, which occurred near the Kiepenkerl statue in the old town. Some are said to be in a serious condition.

Police have closed the area and asked people to avoid the city centre.

                     

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-436836

Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Golden Oxen's News Channel - Hi Karpatok
« Reply #1363 on: May 21, 2018, 05:05:42 AM »
 Just wonderful to know you are well and have found a new home where you feel secure and at peace.

 Your prose is as sharp, poignant, and sincere as ever.  Missed You.                    Regards, GO

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Golden Oxen's Newz Channel
« Reply #1364 on: May 21, 2018, 09:17:53 AM »
Just wonderful to know you are well and have found a new home where you feel secure and at peace.

 Your prose is as sharp, poignant, and sincere as ever.  Missed You.                    Regards, GO
  Well Good Day, GO. How nice of  you to greet me with such kind words. I have thought of you often as well and hope that you and your family are doing fine and especially those precious grandchildren. Am sorry we meet again under the terrible conditions pertaining to our mutual country. I have great fears for it. What do you think we could all do, if anything? As someone quoted Lenin, "What is to be done." I can see the United States falling into the existence of Syria or Libya, even without being attacked from an external point. I think perhaps Putins better part of valor is simply patience, watching the US tear itself apart, from afar. But is suicide based on lack of moral core and self respect, a tragedy? I think not. Or perhaps like Greek tragedy of old, it is exactly the thumbing of the nose at every conceivable God given code of honor that is bringing it down. The defiance of every traditional value that is determining its implosion from within. Thoughts? Anyone?

 

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