AuthorTopic: The Trouble with Guy McPherson  (Read 11977 times)

Offline K-Dog

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I got no beef.
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2016, 08:29:42 AM »

That was a good line of bullshit though!  Throw in the influence of the tides next time.

Insomnia is the most severe symptom of adjustment and it can be prolonged.

You know far less about this subject than I.  Did you forget where I am?






Based on your expertise with stoners, would you say they naturally gravitate towards conspiracy theories, or does being a stoner help push them along into being..well..you know....gullible?

Can't wait to hear the replies on this one.

No, it does not correlate.  I find there are plenty of people who are gullible who to the best of my knowledge never indulge.  You for instance are a prime example.  You don't judge evidence on its merits but give evidence more or less credibility depending on its source.  Your insistence on scientific evidence being peer reviewed demonstrates this in spades.  You do not seem to get that something is true or not independent of where information may come from.  Truth value does not depend on the identity of any person advocating a particular position, truth only depends on how well a position they advocate correlates to actual reality.

As someone who has fundamental issues determining what truth is a toke here and there for you might improve your perception of reality since everyone reading what you write knows you need help with basic mental processing.  Your notion that truth is subjective is evidence that all your lights are on but nobody is home and it allowed you to ask such a foolish question.  Truth is or it is not.  Truth is not subjective.  Relative emphasis is subjective yes, but not fundamental truth.


The only thing stoners naturally gravitate to are snacks.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 08:32:17 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline K-Dog

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Cats chasing their tales make me laugh.
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2016, 08:46:18 AM »
Are you going to look at the evidence yourself and can your mind consider all the possibilities so that you can make an informed decision.  That is what this should be about.

A few years ago now I gave his writings serious consideration over a period of months. I concluded that he was onto some important principals, such as the relative lack of consideration of some positive feedback loops in the IPCC reports of the time.  I concluded after much reading and study that the truth of our situation lay somewhere between the IPCC perspective and that of McPherson--but somewhere in the middle third of the extremes on a graph line.  Most importantly, I found McPherson unable or unwilling to acknowledge the massive amount of uncertainty in the field of climatology / climate science.  McPherson has long been claiming that the evidence shows that humans (and most other life on Earth) will be extinct in a matter of decades, but such an outcome is at least nearing upon the preposterous.  What COULD happen, however, is a much slower mass extinction event ... over centuries... if we do nothing to curtail greenhouse gas emissions and amplify current  levels of sequestration of atmospheric carbon. 

By telling folks it's already too late for all of that he's CONTRIBUTING to the problem by discouraging people from doing anything about the problem.

I also caught Guy at a number of examples of either outrageous carelessness / recklessness in scientific reasoning (or perhaps they were attempts to deceive).  It was years ago, and I didn't take notes on the examples, but they convinced me that he's either no good at being honest  or he's not so good at doing science. Or both.

Guy is incorrect in thinking that all positive feedback loops must result in hockey stick graphs.  I wish he expressed more mathematical rigor when talking about reinforcing feedback loops. 

But as an engineer I'd like to see a bit more mathematical rigor just about everywhere I go LOL.  However be that as it is I do see lack of exposure to mathematics tends to make people gravitate to implausible and sometimes impossible extremes.  Far more than being a stoner ever could.  Being able to think about things quantitatively is a good thing.

As the only person with the courage to advocate for NTHE which by its nature is a thankless job I am very tolerant of Guy's foibles.  There are plenty of people who would rather insult him than have their minds contemplate the evidence he presents because the evidence he presents is too damn uncomfortable.

Quote
By telling folks it's already too late for all of that he's CONTRIBUTING to the problem by discouraging people from doing anything about the problem.

I don't agree with this at all.  People in general are not doing anything about the problem to begin with and the few of us who do give two shits about the future are smart enough to put Guy's position in perspective and we are enriched by his presence.  It this were not true this comment thread would not exist.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 09:05:41 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline MKing

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Re: I got no beef.
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2016, 10:41:40 AM »

That was a good line of bullshit though!  Throw in the influence of the tides next time.

Insomnia is the most severe symptom of adjustment and it can be prolonged.

You know far less about this subject than I.  Did you forget where I am?






Based on your expertise with stoners, would you say they naturally gravitate towards conspiracy theories, or does being a stoner help push them along into being..well..you know....gullible?

Can't wait to hear the replies on this one.

No, it does not correlate.  I find there are plenty of people who are gullible who to the best of my knowledge never indulge.  You for instance are a prime example.  You don't judge evidence on its merits but give evidence more or less credibility depending on its source.

Really? Well, lets use some K-Dog reasoning, shall we? You busted UB because he DARED to forget where you live, and you used Washingtons experience with weed to validate your opinion.

I've got you beat, I live in Colorado. Our medical marijuana law went into effect in 1979. The stuff had already been made a petty offense in 1975. In 2009 we had so many dispensaries that Westworld was looking for a marijuana critic for the Denver area.

Washington is a late to the party, band wagon jumping poor imitation to Colorado.

And by YOUR logic, I get to pretend to know more because of where I am located.

Hence my perfectly acceptable use of YOUR level of proof to one up your obvious attempt to discredit my more substantial position.

And my more substantial position, and interaction with pot folks spans decades now, leads to my original question. Certainly I have my opinion the gullibility of stoners for conspiracy theories, I was only asking about your opinion, even based on your inferior level of authority on the matter...based on your location.

Quote from: K-Dog
Your insistence on scientific evidence being peer reviewed demonstrates this in spades. 

I did not insist on anything related to scientific evidence, I was just inquiring as to your inferior expertise, based on living in Washington, about whether or not stoners were more gullible and hence more inclined to fall for conspiracy theories, such as 9/11.

Maybe UB cares about the science of weed, I do not. Other than it preventing the hiring of what appear to be otherwise normal candidates for jobs requiring that the people not be stoners. And we don't discriminate, stoners, dopers, boozers, hell, demonstrate that you think seismic waves become invisible only on 9/11/2001 and you probably won't make the cut...employees denying the laws of physics can't be trusted any more than the stoners, dopers or boozers. Can you see adding up 2+2 and expecting someone to get 4, and them deciding to call it a 5 because hey! An invisible conspiracy says it must be so!

 :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny:
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
-Dalai Lama

Offline JRM

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Re: Cats chasing their tales make me laugh.
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2016, 12:09:02 PM »

I don't agree with this at all.  People in general are not doing anything about the problem to begin with and the few of us who do give two shits about the future are smart enough to put Guy's position in perspective and we are enriched by his presence.  It this were not true this comment thread would not exist.

I did not spell out all of the details of my point, and you failed to intuit my perspective from what I said.  Yes, only a small minority of people are seriously engaged with trying to respond sincerely to the climate crisis.  But a vastly larger portion (%) of this sliver of the overall population have fallen into Guy's NTE camp than of the general population.  And I personally have heard (and read) lots of folks repeating Guy's NTE premise as a reason for not even trying to solve a climate "problem".  It's not a problem if it does not admit to solutions -- and Guy thinks it does not --, and so do his acolytes.   I KNOW that this is going on.  I just know it. Plenty of folks who could help us solve the climate crisis refuse to roll up their sleeves and get to work on it because "It's too late; we're toast". 

No. Really!
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline azozeo

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Re: I got no beef with McPherson
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2016, 12:29:03 PM »

That was a good line of bullshit though!  Throw in the influence of the tides next time.

Insomnia is the most severe symptom of adjustment and it can be prolonged.

You know far less about this subject than I.  Did you forget where I am?




Based on your expertise with stoners, would you say they naturally gravitate towards conspiracy theories, or does being a stoner help push them along into being..well..you know....gullible?

Can't wait to hear the replies on this one.


Ho-LEEEE fuking dogshit batman !
Ed, being a man of science, can u get a hernia from busting a gut from laughing uncontrollably.
 
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: No Trouble with Guy McPherson
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2016, 12:35:00 PM »
Are you going to look at the evidence yourself and can your mind consider all the possibilities so that you can make an informed decision.  That is what this should be about.

A few years ago now I gave his writings serious consideration over a period of months. I concluded that he was onto some important principals, such as the relative lack of consideration of some positive feedback loops in the IPCC reports of the time.  I concluded after much reading and study that the truth of our situation lay somewhere between the IPCC perspective and that of McPherson--but somewhere in the middle third of the extremes on a graph line.  Most importantly, I found McPherson unable or unwilling to acknowledge the massive amount of uncertainty in the field of climatology / climate science.  McPherson has long been claiming that the evidence shows that humans (and most other life on Earth) will be extinct in a matter of decades, but such an outcome is at least nearing upon the preposterous.  What COULD happen, however, is a much slower mass extinction event ... over centuries... if we do nothing to curtail greenhouse gas emissions and amplify current  levels of sequestration of atmospheric carbon. 

By telling folks it's already too late for all of that he's CONTRIBUTING to the problem by discouraging people from doing anything about the problem.

I also caught Guy at a number of examples of either outrageous carelessness / recklessness in scientific reasoning (or perhaps they were attempts to deceive).  It was years ago, and I didn't take notes on the examples, but they convinced me that he's either no good at being honest  or he's not so good at doing science. Or both.


JeRM,
Are you a gravity based Universe proponent  "OR"
An Electromagnetic based Universe proponent.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: I got no beef with McPherson
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 12:44:41 PM »

That was a good line of bullshit though!  Throw in the influence of the tides next time.

Insomnia is the most severe symptom of adjustment and it can be prolonged.

You know far less about this subject than I.  Did you forget where I am?


Based on your expertise with stoners, would you say they naturally gravitate towards conspiracy theories, or does being a stoner help push them along into being..well..you know....gullible?


Soooooooo, yer calling Thomas Jefferson a stoner.
Clinton a skirt chaser, I'm ok with that one.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Cats chasing their tales make me laugh.
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 12:52:41 PM »

I don't agree with this at all.  People in general are not doing anything about the problem to begin with and the few of us who do give two shits about the future are smart enough to put Guy's position in perspective and we are enriched by his presence.  It this were not true this comment thread would not exist.

I did not spell out all of the details of my point, and you failed to intuit my perspective from what I said.  Yes, only a small minority of people are seriously engaged with trying to respond sincerely to the climate crisis.  But a vastly larger portion (%) of this sliver of the overall population have fallen into Guy's NTE camp than of the general population.  And I personally have heard (and read) lots of folks repeating Guy's NTE premise as a reason for not even trying to solve a climate "problem".  It's not a problem if it does not admit to solutions -- and Guy thinks it does not --, and so do his acolytes.   I KNOW that this is going on.  I just know it. Plenty of folks who could help us solve the climate crisis refuse to roll up their sleeves and get to work on it because "It's too late; we're toast". 

No. Really!

It is in the nature of humans to solve problems.  The NTHE argument invites rebuttal and you are evidence of it.  That the NTHE argument can be twisted as propaganda to promote inactivity and maintain the copious consumption of fossils fuels because there is nothing to be done you should be more worried about.  The rub in that however is that in so doing one acknowledges the problem of global warming (or global cooking for the purposes of this discussion) and the natural tendency to solve problems kicks in defeating that meme.

High fructose corn syrup is more of an agent for depression than Guy's message.  If anyone is paralyzed into inactivity by Guy's message they were not much help in implementing a solution to begin with.  Hence no loss.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline K-Dog

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All HOT AND BOTHERED about Guy McPherson
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2016, 12:58:15 PM »

That was a good line of bullshit though!  Throw in the influence of the tides next time.

Insomnia is the most severe symptom of adjustment and it can be prolonged.

You know far less about this subject than I.  Did you forget where I am?


Based on your expertise with stoners, would you say they naturally gravitate towards conspiracy theories, or does being a stoner help push them along into being..well..you know....gullible?


Soooooooo, yer calling Thomas Jefferson a stoner.
Clinton a skirt chaser, I'm ok with that one.

Thomas Jefferson you say.  To wit one may inquire.  Is the constitution worth the HEMP it was written on?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 01:01:03 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline azozeo

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Re: All HOT AND BOTHERED about Guy McPherson
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 01:16:08 PM »

That was a good line of bullshit though!  Throw in the influence of the tides next time.

Insomnia is the most severe symptom of adjustment and it can be prolonged.

You know far less about this subject than I.  Did you forget where I am?


Based on your expertise with stoners, would you say they naturally gravitate towards conspiracy theories, or does being a stoner help push them along into being..well..you know....gullible?


Soooooooo, yer calling Thomas Jefferson a stoner.
Clinton a skirt chaser, I'm ok with that one.

Thomas Jefferson you say.  To wit one may inquire.  Is the constitution worth the HEMP it was written on?


Did our unibrow posterchild even mention the work of Rick Simpson (neoh)
Did he mention the work of Henry Ford's hemp automobile (neoh)
Or the work of thousands of people from all over the globe who've woven sails (neoh)
Moriarty ran right to the tin foil hat club.
Councillor, I rest my case.
Dog, thanks for running my cover on this one, I'm not into going China Syndrome today.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline K-Dog

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The Trouble with Tribbles.
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 01:45:56 PM »
And the speculation remains.  Could a toke a day help out the mentatation of our unibrow or are his logical fallacies beyond any hope of redemption?  One can't develop what one does not have so the question reduces to how far out of the primordial slime has his cerebral cortex evolved?  If the potential for logical reasoning is merly suppressed then SOMEBODY PLEASE GET HIM A BONG!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 01:50:29 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline azozeo

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Re: The Trouble with Tribbles.
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 02:00:48 PM »
And the speculation remains.  Could a toke a day help out the mentatation of our unibrow or are his logical fallacies beyond any hope of redemption?  One can't develop what one does not have so the question reduces to how far out of the primordial slime has his cerebral cortex evolved?  If the potential for logical reasoning is merly suppressed then SOMEBODY PLEASE GET HIM A BONG!


That mans pineal gland is so calcified over I'm at a loss for words.
Cannabis cures cancer in 6 weeks. Stupidity from a calcified pineal gland might take awhile longer.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Online Eddie

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Re: The Trouble with Guy McPherson
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 02:01:57 PM »
Ho-LEEEE fuking dogshit batman !
Ed, being a man of science, can u get a hernia from busting a gut from laughing uncontrollably.



 ;D ;D ;D ;D
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online Eddie

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Re: The Trouble with Tribbles.
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2016, 02:16:36 PM »
And the speculation remains.  Could a toke a day help out the mentatation of our unibrow or are his logical fallacies beyond any hope of redemption?  One can't develop what one does not have so the question reduces to how far out of the primordial slime has his cerebral cortex evolved?  If the potential for logical reasoning is merly suppressed then SOMEBODY PLEASE GET HIM A BONG!
;D ;D ;D ;D
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online Eddie

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Re: The Trouble with Guy McPherson
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2016, 03:06:01 PM »
ďI hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.Ē


― Hunter S. Thompson


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xd80dwC7lqk&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xd80dwC7lqk&fs=1</a>
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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