AuthorTopic: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger  (Read 9983 times)

Offline g

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Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« on: June 25, 2016, 09:10:45 AM »
These are  not my views. Mr Musk is a real smart kid IMHO, and  a doer, rather than a talker.

However, Mr Denninger, whom I've read diligently for years is a Big Head, for sure.

Mr Musk may be headed for financial difficulties with his corporations, that is likely, but he has a lot more to sell than HYPE IMO.


Tesla Is A Zero

 

Elon Musk has absolutely nothing to sell except hype -- and in that regard, he sells a lot.

Yes, Space-X is a big deal.  But Space-X is a non-event in terms of money.

And now, Musk has "acquired" Solar City -- another money losing tax farm.

Folks, these companies are nothing other than tax subsidy farms, and lose money on an operating basis.  They are debt-financed and leveraged to beyond the orbit of Jupiter, which is a grossly-unsustainable practice that only works so long as the stock price remains sky-high.

Which, ultimately, it won't.

At which point the overhang of said debt will sink the company, rendering it worthless and all those expensive Tesla cars unsupportable and also worthless.

Count on it.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3410210  :icon_study:


Offline RE

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 02:51:03 PM »
Karl gets something right for a change!  Well, a broken clock is right twice a day.

Elon Musk is a total con artist living off Wall Street debt and Goobermint subsidies paid for by more Goobermint Debt and your tax dollars.

RE
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2016, 03:05:42 PM »
Elon Musk is a total con artist living off Wall Street debt and Goobermint subsidies paid for by more Goobermint Debt and your tax dollars.


Not a bad way to make a living, if spending huge wads of money appeals to you.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline g

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2016, 05:10:55 PM »
Karl gets something right for a change! Well, a broken clock is right twice a day.

Elon Musk is a total con artist living off Wall Street debt and Goobermint subsidies paid for by more Goobermint Debt and your tax dollars.

RE

Now I know how you got the LaVoy Finicum episode Exactly correct, as well as the Dim wanting gun control.  :exp-grin: ;D :emthup:

Offline RE

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2016, 05:26:32 PM »
Karl gets something right for a change! Well, a broken clock is right twice a day.

Elon Musk is a total con artist living off Wall Street debt and Goobermint subsidies paid for by more Goobermint Debt and your tax dollars.

RE

Now I know how you got the LaVoy Finicum episode Exactly correct, as well as the Dim wanting gun control.

Even David Stockman thinks Elon Musk is a Con Artist. :P

Quote
And that’s to say nothing of the endless ranks of insanely over-valued “story” stocks like Valeant was and the megalomaniacal visions of Elon Musk still are.

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/bravo-brexit/

RE
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Offline g

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2016, 05:43:11 PM »
Karl gets something right for a change! Well, a broken clock is right twice a day.

Elon Musk is a total con artist living off Wall Street debt and Goobermint subsidies paid for by more Goobermint Debt and your tax dollars.

RE

Now I know how you got the LaVoy Finicum episode Exactly correct, as well as the Dim wanting gun control.

Even David Stockman thinks Elon Musk is a Con Artist. :P

Quote
And that’s to say nothing of the endless ranks of insanely over-valued “story” stocks like Valeant was and the megalomaniacal visions of Elon Musk still are.

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/bravo-brexit/

RE

Could very well be, but my view is he is a very smart person that got carried away with taking on much more than he could handle.

The Tesla car exists and people who have driven one marvel at them and say they are utterly amazing.

The Kid is responsible for Solarizing hundreds of thousands of homes with his Solar City.

His Space X feat of the rocket coming back and landing precisely on the launch pad was amazing.

These are not the tangible  results that I would expect from a con man.

He is in very deep financial debt problems IMO,but it may have been just over reach and trying to do too much too quickly.

But it's just a value judgement on my part, you could be correct and it's possible he is a modern P.T. Barnum.

Those accomplishments however are hard to ignore IMO.

Offline RE

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Elon Musk Kills: Unsafe at any Voltage
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 05:37:52 PM »
GO's favorite "smart kid" Elon Musk kills another one!


RE

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla-crash-20160630-snap-story.html


Fatal crash of Tesla Model S in autopilot mode leads to investigation by federal officials


A Tesla Model S is displayed at an auto show in Frankfurt, Germany, in 2015. (Michael Probst / Associated Press)
James F. Peltz and Samantha Masunaga

Federal regulators opened a preliminary probe into the autopilot feature on a Tesla Model S electric car after a fatal crash involving the technology, Tesla said Thursday.

The fatality – thought to be the first in the auto industry related to an autopilot feature – sparked questions about the limitations of the technology and its place in what is seen as an inevitable march toward self-driving vehicles. It followed other recent incidents in which drivers reported collisions while using such technology.

The male driver died in a May 7 crash in Williston, Fla., when a big rig made a left turn in front of his Tesla.

In a blog post, Tesla Motors Inc. said the 2015 car passed under the trailer, with the bottom of the trailer hitting the Model S’ windshield.

“Neither autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor-trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied,” Tesla said.

Tesla said it immediately reported the fatal crash to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The automaker emphasized that its autopilot feature is still in a beta phase of introduction and has limitations.

“Autopilot is getting better all the time but it is not perfect and still requires the driver to remain alert,” the Palo Alto-based company said in the post.

Tesla noted that the autopilot technology comes disabled and requires “explicit acknowledgement” from the driver before activation that the system is still in a public beta phase.

When autopilot is activated, “the car reminds the driver to ‘Always keep your hands on the wheel. Be prepared to take over at any time.’”

The company noted that when drivers activate the feature, “the car reminds the driver to ‘Always keep your hands on the wheel. Be prepared to take over at any time.’ “

Analysts generally agreed that the Tesla fatality would be more a wake-up call to motorists that the autopilot features are fallible rather than a major hit against Tesla’s brand reputation.

“We do not yet have fully autonomous cars,” said Karl Brauer, a senior analyst at Kelley Blue Book. “It might be this tragic event starts a kind of movement of educating consumers.”

NHTSA said it would evaluate “the design and performance of automated driving systems in the Tesla Model S” along with investigating the vehicle and the crash scene.

The agency said it also would “gather additional data regarding this incident and other information regarding the automated driving systems.”

Scott Galloway, founder of the brand research firm L2, said the momentum of self-driving technology likely will continue despite the tragedy.

“Unless statistics show this is not only as dangerous but more dangerous than traditional modes of driving, I don’t think you’re going to see a slowdown” in using the technology, he said.

George Peterson, president of the research firm AutoPacific Inc. in Tustin, said the issue of the Tesla Model S’ sensors not picking up the white truck during a  bright day is similar to issues involving autonomous vehicles and snow, as it can be difficult to determine the center line of the road or lane markers.

“Those are technology issues that the manufacturers are trying to sort out right now,” Peterson said. “They’re making a lot of progress really quickly, but it’s not a foolproof system, as this shows.”

He said adding beta options in cars such as Tesla’s autopilot feature is “pretty unusual” but that Tesla adds disclaimers before use. Peterson also said that he didn’t think the crash would deter Tesla customers.

“Tesla seems to be a Teflon company,” he said. “Even though Tesla doesn’t sell a tremendous amount of cars, their stock price is hugely high, and there’s a huge group of Tesla fans out there. I don’t think it’ll put them off – I think it’ll make them more cautious when they’re using autopilot.”

Tesla’s stock price, which closed at $212.28 on Thursday, fell 2.5% in after-hours trading.

The Model S is Tesla’s mainstay vehicle so far, and the sedan accounted for most of the 50,580 vehicles Tesla delivered last year.

Rob Enderle, president and principal analyst at technology strategy firm Enderle Group, said the fatality was “a reminder that cars on the road haven't been deployed as self-driving cars, and people shouldn't be driving them hands-off at freeway speeds on the open road.”

“Autopilot as it’s positioned is the next generation of cruise control where the driver is supposed to stay engaged, where you can't depend on this to drive the car for you,” he said. “This could've been easily driver error. This isn't a self-driving car.”

One motorist, Alex Roy, said he and two friends drove a Tesla Model S from Los Angeles to New York in 2015 and spent 96% of the drive on autopilot. Roy, an New York City editor at large at TheDrive, a car website, said the only time he felt unsafe was when he took his hands off the wheel for too long. He blamed himself for that.

“I found myself getting overconfident in the system,” said Roy, adding that Tesla makes it clear that the car cannot operate completely autonomously but that it’s tempting to let go of the wheel because the system generally works so well.

“I took my hands off the wheel [at one point] and thought the car was still on autopilot and it wasn’t, and I almost hit something,” he said.

The need to maintain control became clear to Aaron Souppouris when he test-drove a Model S in April. Souppouris, a senior editor at the blog Engadget, said Tesla loaned him the car for an article about the autopilot feature and he drove it about 500 miles around England.

There were times at night, he said, when the car went back and forth within a lane and seemed “skittish,” he said.

Once on autopilot, the car tried to change lanes but then reverted back suddenly, and another time it disengaged the autopilot mode in the middle of a lane switch, Souppouris said. The car did better during the day than at night, he said.

Times staff writers Natalie Kitroeff and Paresh Dave contributed to this report.

james.peltz@latimes.com

samantha.masunaga@latimes.com

 
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Offline g

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 05:57:32 PM »
Quote
GO's favorite "smart kid" Elon Musk kills another one!

Thank's RE, I really appreciated that. You are truly a pathetic sick human being.

When contemplating what a person of your attitudes and accomplishments envisions when looking at a person like Mr Musk , my sincere sympathies go out to you. 

It must be as horrible as a Vampire viewing a Crucifix.

Thank You Dear Lord in Heaven. 

"There, But For The Grace Of God, Go I"


                                                   


                                                     

Offline g

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2016, 06:08:05 PM »

Your not only a zero, your a murderer as well.

The God of DD has your fucking number Elon!  :laugh: :laugh:


                                       

Offline RE

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2016, 06:28:12 PM »
Quote
GO's favorite "smart kid" Elon Musk kills another one!

Thank's RE, I really appreciated that. You are truly a pathetic sick human being.

HTF am *I* the "pathetic sick human being" here?  ???  :icon_scratch:

I haven't KILLED anyone (yet)!

The last thing I killed was a very large Black Ant heading into my digs through the back door a few days ago.  I stepped on it and CRUSHED it.  I had some pangs of guilt about this, Live and Let Live, right?  But then I figured this Ant might be PREGNANT, and then I would have to share the digs with lots of Ants.  So I imagined the Ant was John Corzine and I had no trouble with stomping it out of existence.

On the other hand, so far in his Megalomaniacal Adventures, Elon Musk has killed at least one Test Pilot and now a Model S driver.  If he ever does get !M Teslas on the road, there will be more Dead Homo Sap bodies on the road than there are Ants in Africa.

RE
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Offline JRM

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2016, 07:18:49 AM »
I knew something like this (a fatality associated with carbots) would happen sooner or later. It may be the first, but it certainly won't be the last.  ... Oh, wait. Was it the first?

I think carbots are the worst idea in the world. Artificial intelligence is in its infancy, at best, and humans will be the better drivers for a long while as compared with robots. I somewhat doubt AI will ever meet or surpass human intelligence in driving situations.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Eddie

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2016, 07:40:30 AM »
I'm actually quite surprised it happened, and I don't rule out some kind of monkey wrenching. By posting the youtube vids bragging about the car, he could have put himself squarely in the crosshairs of a target.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2016, 10:28:25 AM »
I'm actually quite surprised it happened, and I don't rule out some kind of monkey wrenching. By posting the youtube vids bragging about the car, he could have put himself squarely in the crosshairs of a target.

You're going Conspiracy Theory on this?  You think somebody was out to get Elon Musk so they killed a guy watching a Harry Potter movie in his Model S?

RE
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Offline JRM

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2016, 11:24:42 AM »
I'm actually quite surprised it happened, and I don't rule out some kind of monkey wrenching. By posting the youtube vids bragging about the car, he could have put himself squarely in the crosshairs of a target.

Eddie, I'm surprised you're surprised.  I've thought carefully about what it would entail to have a machine do the driving -- ever, to any degree, from "keep your hands on the wheel" to "sit in the passenger or back seat and read your newspaper."

Given your response, I suspect you have not thought carefully thorough what it means to allow a car to drive itself in a real world environment.  It should be clear to anyone smart and informed that we humans simply don't have that kind of technology, and won't anytime soon (if ever).  It would require an AI apparatus at least as good as a human driver.  Driving a car is a very, very sophisticated thing.  (Obviously many humans are not up to the task!)
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Eddie

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Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2016, 11:56:57 AM »
Most humans aren't particularly good drivers. Even with an occasional failure, I'd bet driverless tech reduces fatal and non-fatal accidents substantially. But at this stage of the game, one big failure might be enough to put it on hold for years.

Elon Musk is the poster boy for divorcing cars from fossil fuels. (Whether that's an accurate assessment is doubtful, but it doesn't matter).

Who benefits from taking Tesla down?  Just the oil companies....and maybe Detroit automakers. Would they murder someone just for profit?

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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