AuthorTopic: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint  (Read 14669 times)

Offline g

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Re: Diner Party Platform: Education Plank
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2016, 03:39:27 AM »
No offense RE and I am being serious.

Your proposal was where they sent the kids who couldn't handle my type of curriculum back in my day.

We used to dread being sent there, and as mean stupid young kids used to refer to it as NUTTY CRUST.

The line used to be, if you fail again your going to be sent to Nutty Crust with the dim to learn how to change oil and tires and take up carpentry.

In all honesty and sincerity the kids who were sent to those trade schools did quite OK for themselves and got good jobs and some became successful small businessman.

That fact, witnessed in later years however, did little to calm our fears of being sent to Nutty Crust with the dim.

My point being a well rounded classical education is desirable for positions of great responsibility and leadership of others.

Offline RE

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2016, 05:00:00 AM »
Could you imagine George Bush, Obama, Cheney or Pelosi meeting the requirements of my edict.

The Bushes and Obama were Ivy League educated.  They almost certainly read these books as an Undergraduate.

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Offline g

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2016, 05:08:28 AM »
Could you imagine George Bush, Obama, Cheney or Pelosi meeting the requirements of my edict.

The Bushes and Obama were Ivy League educated.  They almost certainly read these books as an Undergraduate.

RE

Yes indeed, Honor students for sure.

That's why their school records are under lock and key.

Our first Pin Head POTUS and our First Equal Opportunity POTUS.

Two fucking geniuses for sure, a blithering fucking idiot, and a TV show rap star.    ::)

Offline RE

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Re: Diner Party Platform: Education Plank
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2016, 05:17:15 AM »
No offense RE and I am being serious.

Your proposal was where they sent the kids who couldn't handle my type of curriculum back in my day.

We used to dread being sent there, and as mean stupid young kids used to refer to it as NUTTY CRUST.

The line used to be, if you fail again your going to be sent to Nutty Crust with the dim to learn how to change oil and tires and take up carpentry.

In all honesty and sincerity the kids who were sent to those trade schools did quite OK for themselves and got good jobs and some became successful small businessman.

That fact, witnessed in later years however, did little to calm our fears of being sent to Nutty Crust with the dim.

My point being a well rounded classical education is desirable for positions of great responsibility and leadership of others.

No offense GO and I am being serious too.

We are talking about a POST COLLAPSE world, not the world of your childhood.

First off, I don't think any of the "Nutty Crust" trade schools you mentioned offered training in Medicine and Dentistry.  Second off, the result of the type of education you advocate has led to a society of people who think food comes from the supermarket and they couldn't grow food for themselves if you gave them the land on which to do it.  Same people can't change a flat tire on a car or figure out how to run a gas generator for emergencies.

On top of all that, in the post collapse world the Great Books you advocate reading will not be available in many communities, and become less available all the time as commercial paper production ceases.  That is a very energy intensive business.  Smart phones and computers like mine that can store the entire reading list also will disappear over time.

About the only way this stuff will persist long term is if some people commit it to memory and then pass it on as Oral Tradition, the way the Hopis and other cultures passed along Ancient Knowledge if they did not have Writing.  There were many wise First Nations Chiefs like Sitting Bull, Geronimo, Tecumseh and Pontiac who both never read all those great works nor could read or write either.  These books are not the only way to acquire the Wisdom to be a great leader.

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Offline g

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2016, 05:34:38 AM »
Quote
On top of all that, in the post collapse world the Great Books you advocate reading will not be available in many communities, and become less available all the time as commercial paper production ceases.  That is a very energy intensive business.  Smart phones and computers like mine that can store the entire reading list also will disappear over time.

Here is a link to a free download of the entire Harvard Classics to solve your paper problem.

Publishing books has become very expensive.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/03/the-harvard-classics-download-all-51-volumes-as-free-ebooks.html :icon_study: :icon_study:



Offline RE

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2016, 05:41:40 AM »
Quote
On top of all that, in the post collapse world the Great Books you advocate reading will not be available in many communities, and become less available all the time as commercial paper production ceases.  That is a very energy intensive business.  Smart phones and computers like mine that can store the entire reading list also will disappear over time.

Here is a link to a free download of the entire Harvard Classics to solve your paper problem.

Publishing books has become very expensive.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/03/the-harvard-classics-download-all-51-volumes-as-free-ebooks.html :icon_study: :icon_study:

I told you I ALREADY have them downloaded, and many more texts as well including medical textbooks, Gray's Anatomy, Engineering manuals etc.  About 2000 books or so in my digital library.  I also mentioned the computers and smart phones won't be working. Read for comprehension.

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Offline g

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2016, 05:50:41 AM »
As an item that may be of interest to Diner's relative to this topic of the Harvard Classics.

I purchased a handsome leather bound edition of the entire series a few years back for my grandchildren.

They are being given away almost on E-Bay when one considers their original cost. They are offered often and real nice like new sets appear often at absurdly low prices.

Might make a very nice gift for a favorite youngster Diner's that may not be available in such a wonderful format for long.

What a wonderful gift for a child to receive and think of you as he enjoys the gift of knowledge. A few gorgeous formats shown.

                                   
                                         


                                         



                                           

Offline g

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2016, 06:15:12 AM »
Quote
Smart phones and computers like mine that can store the entire reading list also will disappear over time.

Here is what you wrote RE. Can store and Have stored are two different things and reading for comprehension is my hallmark.

For your information I was agreeing with you, and trying to be helpful in providing you with a download that you felt would outlast printed editions, at least for a while.

Always think twice when  addressing GO my dear pupil. As to to reading for comprehension my dim student, go back and read my edict and see whether it says Read the Harvard Classics or Demonstrated Proficiency and Understanding of them by acquiring a specific type of diploma.

READ FOR COMPREHENSION DEAR PUPIL!      ;D


Offline RE

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2016, 06:17:09 AM »
Another problem with paper books is they are HEAVY and BULKY to move around if you don't live in the same place all the time.

In college as I bought these books new for class, at the end of the semester I couldn't bring myself to sell them back to the bookstore for two reasons.  First was I wanted to keep them to have my own Library for reference.  This was the days before ebooks of course.  Second reason was the bookstore paid less than half the original cost, maybe it was 20% or so.  Besides the great works of literature, I also kept all my science textbooks, big fat things.

So by the time I finished college, I had hundreds of books sitting on the shelves in the house in Queens.  They stayed there until my mom sold the house and everything got shipped to MO.  At the time I was trucking, so in the boxes they were packed in they went into a storage unit where they remain to this day.  I haven't been able to bring myself to give up that storage unit which has tons of memorabilia from my youth.  So I pay the storage fee every month for the last 15-20 years or so.

The ebooks are much better for Nomads, that whole library and much more fits on a chip the size of my fingernail.  That does depend though of course on having working computers.

Post collapse, I think both paper books and computers will be around for quite a while, with the paper outlasting the computers but how well libraries will be maintained is an open question.  So books of either type will not be around forever.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2016, 06:26:00 AM »
Nothing wrong with teaching the classics, as long as somebody qualified to teach them is available. I think GO made a good point when he said they take more than casual reading or listening to gain a full understanding.

For years, I've wished for an opportunity to really study Shakespeare, but reading it without a guide is to miss half the nuance. Obviously it hasn't bothered me enough to make me enroll again as an undergrad. :)

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2016, 06:28:43 AM »
Quote
Smart phones and computers like mine that can store the entire reading list also will disappear over time.

Here is what you wrote RE. Can store and Have stored are two different things and reading for comprehension is my hallmark.

Your memory is not very good.  I wrote extensively about my adventures in downloading ebooks here on the Diner in the Book Collector Newz thread.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,1163.0.html

For $35/mo membership I got UNLIMITED downloads.  I spent 2 months daily downloading, setting my laptop to download all night while sleeping too!  :icon_sunny:

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Offline g

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2016, 06:29:12 AM »
Another problem with paper books is they are HEAVY and BULKY to move around if you don't live in the same place all the time.

In college as I bought these books new for class, at the end of the semester I couldn't bring myself to sell them back to the bookstore for two reasons.  First was I wanted to keep them to have my own Library for reference.  This was the days before ebooks of course.  Second reason was the bookstore paid less than half the original cost, maybe it was 20% or so.  Besides the great works of literature, I also kept all my science textbooks, big fat things.

So by the time I finished college, I had hundreds of books sitting on the shelves in the house in Queens.  They stayed there until my mom sold the house and everything got shipped to MO.  At the time I was trucking, so in the boxes they were packed in they went into a storage unit where they remain to this day.  I haven't been able to bring myself to give up that storage unit which has tons of memorabilia from my youth.  So I pay the storage fee every month for the last 15-20 years or so.

The ebooks are much better for Nomads, that whole library and much more fits on a chip the size of my fingernail.  That does depend though of course on having working computers.

Post collapse, I think both paper books and computers will be around for quite a while, with the paper outlasting the computers but how well libraries will be maintained is an open question.  So books of either type will not be around forever.

RE

Same here with books. Got a house and garage full of them I can't part with. The wife breaks my aggies constantly to get rid of them.

How can I explain to her she goes before the books without getting in trouble :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:

So I keep the yap shut and wait for the topic to change.  :laugh: :exp-laugh:

Got boxes full of Geographics and New Yorkers as well.  :laugh:

Offline g

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2016, 06:39:57 AM »
Nothing wrong with teaching the classics, as long as somebody qualified to teach them is available. I think GO made a good point when he said they take more than casual reading or listening to gain a full understanding.

For years, I've wished for an opportunity to really study Shakespeare, but reading it without a guide is to miss half the nuance. Obviously it hasn't bothered me enough to make me enroll again as an undergrad. :)

I went back and took night courses in College for awhile in Literature, but felt so out of pace with the younger crowd, I only lasted a few classes.

The insights you can gain from a true educator that loves his subject matter is truly amazing. Just felt too out of place to participate.

Kids today are real smart, don't believe all the negative shit you read about them.

What a friggin shame what we let the banksters do to them with the student debt bondage. That is really a disgrace we should all feel a bit guilty about. There should have been a massive public outcry.  :-\

Offline JRM

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2016, 07:38:43 AM »
I have learned over time not to bother reading poetry, as poems are designed not to be understandable in the same way to everyone - how pointless is that?

But that's how EVERYTHING is.  No two people experience much of anything in exactly the same way because we're all utterly and completely unique.  That's a big part of the beauty of our amazing existence -- the utter uniqueness of each moment, each snowflake, fingerprint, person, flower, galaxy.... No two mountains or rivers are exactly alike. Thank heaven!

And yet, good poetry is not a chaos of confusion -- even though much good poetry will have multiple and often somewhat ambiguous interpretations.  There are also common experiences and insights to be unfolded within any good poem.

Sometimes a good poem will be intellectually somewhat ambiguous but will point to what may be called a "sensuous insight".


Take this one for example:



- human skin -

(or, dendrochronology)


human skin
may have been
the original
poem

with all of its
elbows and
ribs
and lobes

stigmas
styles
ovaries
ovules

its river bottoms
with colored pebbles
its exotic and
invisible wounds

the way it wades into
waters
over its own
head

and how it colors itself
with sky
and shades itself
in summer

as if it were a
blue heron
with a giant menacing
beak

which longs to walk long
legged through
pressed cotton
sheets

leaving wild unintelligible
markings
droppings
incendiary devices

which shivers itself
awake
or
drinks itself asleep

oozes or dips
its pen in
deep sea
ink

every age
of this poem
leaves
rings

raises its limbs
reaches
touches
roots


-------------

Be kind in your assessment. I'm rather close to this poems author.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 07:40:41 AM by JRM »
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline JRM

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Re: Diner Party New World Order Global Shadow Goobermint
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2016, 07:55:23 AM »
That poem makes deliberate and yet calculated, even predictable use of double and triple entendre -- or ambiguity.

Take for example this list of words:

stigmas
styles
ovaries
ovules

These name parts of flowers. But something else is at work here. A stigma is part of a flower but it is also "a mark of disgrace or infamy; a stain or reproach, as on one's reputation." (American Heritage Dictionary)

The word styles names a part of a flower, but also "a particular kind, sort, or type, as with reference to form, appearance, or character" (ibid)

Here parts of the human body (and the being who is this body) are both juxtaposed with flower parts and treated as identical with flower parts!  What a strange thing for a poet to do!  But if you use this as a means of decoding the rest of the poem it becomes a useful clue, for the human body here (with its skin) is also compared with a tree -- perhaps even a flowering tree! 


every age
of this poem
leaves
rings


Leaves and rings do much the same thing here. 

The subtitle word, dendrochronology, is another clue.  Each year a tree has another "ring" in a layering of rings.  But bells ring ... and some things "ring true"...  and the "poem" here is clearly meant to be internally synonymous with "human skin" and "poem".  Is this schizophrenia ... or a clever set of intertwined analogies and metaphors / similes?  At once the human being is compared with a flowering tree (tree of life?) which may well be ringing like a bell!  Leaves are the leaves of books (a book of original poems?), leaves of trees, and something left (rings in trees which ring like bells which resemble a poem!)

A good poem is often explosive (incendiary devices) of ordinary and habitual singular meanings and interpretations. Deliberately.  This may invoke a kind of chaos of thought and feeling, but if the poet is doing her job right she will do it with deliberate, often exacting or precise intent.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 08:07:00 AM by JRM »
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

 

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