AuthorTopic: Private Property Myths & Legends  (Read 7267 times)

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 40250
    • View Profile
Private Property Myths & Legends
« on: November 13, 2016, 02:12:02 AM »


youtube-Logo-4gc2reddit-logoOff the keyboard of RE



Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666

Friend us on Facebook



Published on The Doomstead Diner on November 13, 2016



no_trespassing_1



Discuss this article at the Economics Table inside the Diner



http://www.thebluebook.com/inc/img/qp/144608/deahome.jpg "Private Property" is one of the most dearly held concepts you find amongst Western populations, and it is the foundation level principle for Capitalism.  For the average J6P, the sanctity of Pirvate Property is embodied in the cliche "A Man's Home is his Castle".  If you own a piece of land, what you do with it is your business and nobody else's.  Whatever wealth can be extracted from that land belongs to you and nobody else.



Just about none of what most people believe about private property is true of course, it's a fiction created since the beginning of the Agricultural Revolution around 10,000 BCE.  Around that fiction a body of laws developed over time, probably beginning with the Babylonian civilization but pretty well matured by the time of the Roman Empire.  We don't need to go back that far though to see how these concepts and laws developed, it's well represented in more modern history beginning with the Feudal period in Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire.



In the aftermath of that collapse, the central goobermint of Rome was lost and populations dropped precipitously.  Rome as a city at it's peak during the Empire years is estimated to have been around 1.6M people, after the fall it dwindled down to fewer than 20,000 human souls.



Out in the provinces in places like modern Germany and Great Britain, populations fell back as well, to Hunter Gather level and basic horticulture.  The tribes that survived had no private property, they only controlled their patch of land through force, as a group, although they always had leaders, chiefs of the tribe.  Since force was necessary to maintain control over a patch of land, these were generally the toughest warriors.



http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/round-table.jpg Over time as battles were fought, won and lost by one group or another, feudal states began to emerge out of the ashes of the Roman Empire.  Successful Chiefs became Kings, and then as the territories controlled by a given King expanded, you got smaller Kings ceeding authority to the bigger King and you got more levels of "Noblemen" who now had their own piece of property to protect and defend, but also had to pay the Big King taxes on that land, because now all the land really belonged to HIM.  He was the "Crown" of this incipient Ponzi.



In order to raise money to pay taxes to the King, the Dukes had to raise this money (or grain, or lumber etc) from the population of the land they were now essentially renting from the King for the tax payments levied each year, which could get pretty onerous.  The folks who live on the land, the serfs, own nothing.  They are granted a place to live and enough to eat by their "Lord", as long as they produce enough surplus each year to both keep the Duke living well and paying his taxes to the King.



Over time, the feudal system of serfs who were basically land slaves morphed into incipient capitalism, and the Dukes would "sell" off pieces of their land to individual property holders, who then would be responsible for paying taxes on their smaller property.  You can see pretty clearly here how the Ponzi is developing.  The guy (gal) at the top, the King (or Queen in the case of England during much of the colonial era of the New World) did REALLY well, sieving up wealth from the entire population under his goobermint, known as Monarchy during this period.



http://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/hist/cadeau/images/int01b.jpg Upon arrival in the New World aboard their sailing vessels, having had their vessel Chartered and given Letters of Marque by the Monarch, upon landing on some beach the Captain would jam a flag into the ground and exclaim, "I claim this land in the name of Elizabeth, Queen of England, Duchess of York, Defender of the Faith…" yadda yadda.  You wonder how the House of Windsor got so filthy rich?  REAL ESTATE!  They owned all of North America at one point, and even after the Revolutionary War they still owned plenty and still do in Canada.  Probably the single greatest theft of all time.



Now, none of the natives who are at Hunter-Gatherer level for the most part have any clue whatsoever that the Queen now owns all their land.  They don't even have a concept of land ownership at all.  When they get offered $24 in Beads for Manhattan Island, they think this is a sweet deal!  They don't grasp that signing this contract means they lose all rights to hunt on the land, in perpetuity.  Over time though eventually they do grasp this as more Europeans show up and keep encroaching on more and more land.  Treaties are signed under EXTREME duress where they are forced to cede more and more land, getting squeezed down to a few "Reservations" which are supposedly independent, but in reality the land is held "In Trust" for the tribe, by you guessed it, Da Federal Goobermint.



Now in the creation of the new so-called "Democratic State", instead of a single person like the Queen of England holding title to the land, the theoretical collective of the whole state and all the people it represents owns the land.  "We" as a people during the Revolutionary War stole the land from the Queen who stole it originally from the First Nations people who didn't steal it from anybody human since there were no humans here before they crossed over from Asia.



http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2015/04/hith-oklahoma-land-run-E.jpeg This Goobermint can now sell, lease or make land grants to anyone, for instance they gave a whole lot of land in Oklahoma away to settlers back in the 1800s.  They sell leases for mineral rights, and they make rights of way for railroads.  What Da Goobermint gives, sells or leases, it can also take back through Emminent Domain.  In general this only occurs to individuals without much power, large land holders and corporations rarely get property clawed back this way by Da Goobermint.



As the industrial revolution progressed, land property was not the only form of property that becae important, factories and the "means of production" were another form of property that developed.  Said factories also were mostly owned and financed by the aristocracy that began the whole Ponzi to begin with, and not only did they own these factories, they also owned the money used to buy and sell these properties.  That was the thing not given up in all the wars no matter which side ever won, the money creation and banking business through which all these property sales are ever done, and the measure by which a property is valued at.  You can trace that power back to at least Medici Banking in the modern era, although it goes further back through the Holy Roman Catholic Church and to Rome before that.  There's a reason the Vatican has so much money too, you know.



So now there was a whole new level of property that needed to be taxed in order to function, and that taxation comes in the form of the profit taking by corporations and by the interest paid to banks on all the money flowing around the society, which is all debt money created by the banks themselves.  Goobermints don't create the money, they themselves have to borrow it from the banks in the form of Goobermint Bonds, which the banks then buy from Da Goobermint with freshly created money, here in the FSoA by Da Fed, a private corporation wholly owned by the TBTF Banks themselves, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, etc.



Now that we have some background in the evolution of Private Property and its relationship to Money & Taxation, we can diagram out the progression here and how in reality, all property on earth has gradually been taken under ownership of ever larger entities over the last 10,000 years, and virtually no property is really private anymore.



property-ownership



Each stage in this progression requires ever larger and more onerous forms of taxation, interest charges and profiteering.  More and more of the global wealth is aquired by fewer and fewer people all the time, on a percentage basis anyhow.  The population at large, which at the top of the infographic all are relatively equal in wealth, at the bottom of the infographic are further and further impoverished as more and more wealth is sieved to the top of the people who control the corporations which then controls Da Goobermint, in the kind of "soft" Fascism you see today in the FSoA.  It's only soft in the sense that here at home, they're not yet rounding up the poor and sending them to the Gas Chambers and Incineration Ovens, but overseas are taking a much harder form of Fascism and bombing whole countries back to the Stone Age.



http://i2.wp.com/www.techchecknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/foundation-0020-elon-musk-tesla-spacex-large.thumb_.jpg?resize=310%2C165 What "Private Property" does is to sieve wealth from the hands of the weak and into the hands of the powerful.  How you gain power has evolved over the years, today it's not generally the biggest toughest Warrior, it's guys like Bill Gates and Elon Musk, who by virtue of intelligence rise to become the best thieves and con artists of their time.  They create their own conduits and then seek to monopolize them.  The Big Gorilla was fabulously successful with this in gaining a virtual monopoly over the OP systems of personal computers as they evolved, Elon Musk is trying to do the same thing by gaining virtual monopoly over battery technology.



On a smaller level, there are many other rentiers and professionals who insert themselves into this flow of funds upward, and then themselves become moderately rich as well.  Gated professions such as Medicine and Dentistry provide a legalized form of theft, which allows these folks to sieve wealth from the large population below them dependent on their services.  People who buy real estate and then rent it to others at a higher cost than the property costs them to run are also sieving the wealth upward this way.  Because they operate on a much smaller level than true champions of criminality like Bill Gates and Elon Musk, they don't get near as rich as those guys do, but they do a whole lot better than the folks beneath them in the pyramid they are sieveing wealth from.



There is an irony here, which is that these folks who insert themselves into the medium levels of the pyramid are the ones who are MOST pissed off about the taxation of their money by the people who are higher up the ladder than they are!  The thing is, they are doing exactly the same thing as those above in the chain, just at a lower level.  The issue here is that since the bottom level of the Ponzi has already been sucked dry of wealth, it's the next level up that needs to pay the freight to keep this system going.  Since they don't have as much power as the next group up above them, they will be taxed into poverty just as they taxed the level below them.  And then on we go up the chain until the whole Ponzi collapses.



https://blogshalom.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/wpid-first_they_came___by_eelyt-d3eufv3-2.png



http://www.thetravelclub.org/images/travelogues/monopoly/Monopoly.jpg To return to the fundamental point of this post, it is the system of "Private Property" which causes the vast inequities we see in the world today.  In the modern era, the folks that have become the wealthiest are those who gained control and monopoly over various technologies and conduits as they emerged.  The Rothschilds gained control over the credit creation bizness, the Rockefellers gained monopoly over the energy bizness, Gates got monopoly over the Personal Computer bizness, Bezos gained control over the Online Retail bizness, Suckerbug got control over the Social Media bizness, etc.  The greatest inequities and theft are at the top of the pyramid of course, but they exist all the way down to the bottom layer, which gets larger all the time as middle levels are squeezed down and as the top gets smaller all the time through mergers & acquisitions.



The origin of the whole scheme begins with theft though, the theft of the earth by powerful people from the weaker ones.  Whether it was the Europeans rolling over the First Nations people in the colonial era or NATO bombing the Middle East today to control the Oil conduit still remaining there, it's all about power and theft.  The laws surrounding Private Property simply codify this and make legal certain types of theft, but it is all still theft up and down the line, although theft at the bottom most layer is very minor, a misdemeanor in the grand theft ongoing here over all these centuries, and even millenia.



Private Property and Money are linked, two sides of the same coin.  You cannot run either of these systems without creating vast inequities and classes of Haves & Have Nots, which are fundamentally at odds with one another. At a certain critical mass, the population of Have Nots becomes so large that the population of Haves can no longer afford to keep them in check anymore, they can't afford all the police they need to protect "their" property, food riots break out and the whole system comes a crashing down.



How far away we are from such a critical mass in the FSoA and other places still functioning like Germany and China is an open question, but what is not open to question is that this Ponzi will crash and the current system will come to a close, just as the Roman Empire did.



What we need to do now is to plan for that day, that hour, that minute, that nano-second when it does finally roll over and die; and decide now how as a species we will live on into the future, at least for as many as survive this cataclysm anyhow.  That future if we are to have one CANNOT include Private Property and Money.



They are the Root of All Evil.



money-is-the-root-of-all-evil_2577-l


Save As Many As You Can

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2016, 05:08:38 AM »
Quote
To return to the fundamental point of this post, it is the system of "Private Property" which causes the vast inequities we see in the world today.

What we need to do now is to plan for that day, that hour, that minute, that nano-second when it does finally roll over and die; and decide now how as a species we will live on into the future, at least for as many as survive this cataclysm anyhow.  That future if we are to have one CANNOT include Private Property and Money.


They are the Root of All Evil.

RE

Exactly RE.  Patron GO agrees.

One should believe and act upon the principles they espouse to others so sanctimoniously. It appears sincere then, rather than hypocrisy and mindless blabber.     


Quote
LOL.  OK, I recognize you are a Master Chef and not the typical Diner, with much time invested here (but no money).

I still OWN it though, and in good libertarian fashion, because I OWN it, I can make my own fucking rules and there isn't a damn thing you can do about that other than complain.  So just give it the fuck up here until we go Communist and your right to speak freely on the Diner is held equal to my rights as the OWNER of the place!

RE
                                                                                                               
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 06:23:59 AM by Golden Oxen »

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2016, 07:22:44 AM »
Of course all that you said in this article is all true RE.  The nature of man is to organize into a pyramid with haves the most, has a bit less, has lesser still, all the way to has nothing but a 16 hour work day that doesn't pay all the bills so needs credit cards to keep the scheme going a bit longer until a bullet is bitten or some kool-aid is drank.   

I've been wrestling with this epiphany recently as I'm sure you've noticed with some of my posts.  Namely what does one do about it?  There have always been winners and losers.  That all being the case why would one choose to be on the bottom of the pyramid?  Why would one choose to lose the game?  There are at least a few ways of looking at this, and I suspect that the majority of our philosophies really do hinge around this pyramidal structure of human nature.  One approach that works pretty well is the mendicant monk approach.  Basically you volunteer for extreme poverty with only the clothes on your back and your begging bowl.  You stop trying to attain anything because basically that desire is the cause of all suffering.  This is of course true, but there is that innate desire to live and therefore consumption is necessary.  In the end all living things are essentially tubes with energy going in one end and shit going out the other.  This approach works great until you try to do the family thing.  Which, the family thing perpetuates the whole miserable game really.  You love somebody and therefore don't want them to suffer.  Then you procreate with them and this entails an immense responsibility to provide the energy that those beings need to thrive.  In our world that equates to you need money.  Just to clarify, I love my family and all that I do now in the world is for them.  Otherwise, at this point I would become that mendicant monk. 

In fact at one point in my life I was at that cross road.  The bifurcation was find love and have a family, or get thee to a monastery.  I left it to the winds of fate and flipped a penny and heads was love and family, so I went with that one. 

The main unfairness in life is that people are born into a level of that pyramid.  The lucky souls are born at the top and the unlucky are born at the bottom.  Although one could argue that the reverse is true...heavy is the crown and what not.  If you are already at the bottom you don't have anywhere to fall to.  If you are on the bottom you can elect to just accept your position, or you can attempt to claw your way up a level or two.  If it were just me, at this point in my life I would just accept my position on the pyramid and volunteer to drop the few remaining levels to the bottom of the damn thing.  I'd find my bodhi tree as it were.  Siddartha Gautama did this exact thing.  Yet he was a prince at the top and he jumped all the way to the bottom with a wife and baby to boot.  I've never understood that one.  How can it be that giving up on your wife and children to find enlightenment is the noble thing to do?  I understand the answer.  Suffering is essentially created by wanting, and in this case you want your family to be healthy and comfortable and happy.  This want forces you to start at go and play the game of monopoly to acquire.  The Buddhist would say that in order to help all sentient beings in this world one must first get off of the wheel of suffering.  To do that requires giving up wanting anything...including family, because in this view the lowliest worm is just as important as a sentient being that realizes suffering. 

Anyways, I'm clearly not going to go that route because I won't abandon my family.  Which means I have to play the game.  I was born to working class parents.  Neither of my parents went to college.  They got married out of high school and had me a year later.  My father started as a ruff neck on an oil rig and my mother stayed at home to raise me.  That whole thing failed and they got divorced and my mother had to boot strap her way through the world as an accountant (which she still is). 

My problem has been (aside from being born towards the bottom of this pyramid) that I have had too much idealism.  I imagine that idealism has been generated by my desire to think and be moral.  Morality has always been a priority for me, as has finding the truth.  Morality and truth have always been tangled up together for me.  However, there are other truths...like that pyramid.  Unfortunately ruminating on existential issues does not have a tendency to generate money since the fuckers at the top could care less about anything but maintaining control of their power.  I've excelled at understanding existential issues to my detriment.  If I had not been so idealistic I would have finished my stint in the navy and got a job making 80 to 100 grand to start working in a nuke plant.  Or before that even, when I had my full paid scholarship to college with a 4.0 I would have not dropped out due to boredom...I would have stuck that out and ended up a lawyer, doctor...or more likely a criminal psychologist.  I was too busy writing a book on existentialism to care about showing up to college for my free sophomore year, so I moved across the country and ultimately joined the navy instead.  My life has been nothing if not paradoxical. 

Now I'm sittin' here with a wife and two kids.  My idealism finally fucked off...finally...I'll tell you that was a bag of god damn bricks I should have set down a long time ago.  Now I'm trying to figure out how to use my big brains to climb my way up the pyramid a few rungs so that I can provide a good life for my family without being a fucking debt/wage slave.  I tried to combine voluntary poverty with family and that doesn't work out very well.  You just end up being viewed as a worthless piece of shit by the rest of society. 

It's starting to look like going back to school to get a job in the medical industry is likely.  It's pretty much the only thing that you can be guaranteed a job in after your college time.  With a wife and two kids it's going to be hard to go full time college...at 36 years old...but short of a stroke of luck it's the only gamble remaining. 

Just one snap shot from one Merikan born to working class parents. 


Offline MKing

  • Contrarian
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 3354
    • View Profile
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2016, 07:44:12 AM »
It's starting to look like going back to school to get a job in the medical industry is likely.  It's pretty much the only thing that you can be guaranteed a job in after your college time.  With a wife and two kids it's going to be hard to go full time college...at 36 years old...but short of a stroke of luck it's the only gamble remaining. 

Just one snap shot from one Merikan born to working class parents.

Good for you! Education and advancement has always been a method to lever big brains in conjunction with hard work and academic training and later on real world experience. Wendy struck me as a nice lady, and she and the kids deserve a lifestyle obviously available to the fine folks in the Inman area. Minus local serial killers of course.
Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent.
-Dalai Lama

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 40250
    • View Profile
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 11:22:38 AM »
Of course all that you said in this article is all true RE.  The nature of man is to organize into a pyramid with haves the most, has a bit less, has lesser still, all the way to has nothing but a 16 hour work day that doesn't pay all the bills so needs credit cards to keep the scheme going a bit longer until a bullet is bitten or some kool-aid is drank.   

I don't recall having written about the pyramidal structure, I just divided the society into the Haves and the Have Nots.  Far as Human Nature goes, I don't think Private Property is Human Nature, I think it's an artifact of af the development of Agriculture.

If you go back to college full time, how would you make your truck payment and credit card bills?

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 12:02:26 PM »

I don't recall having written about the pyramidal structure, I just divided the society into the Haves and the Have Nots. 

Isn't a feudal system essentially a pyramid?  King, lesser kings, dukes, serfs...so on so forth.  People with more, a little less, a little less still, and least?  The idea being that those with the most are fewest in number all the way down to the bottom which has the most in number...making a pyramid?  Geesh RE, I figured you could figure that on your own. 

Quote
Far as Human Nature goes, I don't think Private Property is Human Nature, I think it's an artifact of af the development of Agriculture.

My contention is that it's an artifact of the pyramidal structure we are assembled in, which is itself an artifact of the "law of the jungle," or "dog eat dog world."  I would say that agriculture has shaped human nature at this point.  We have evolved to a different entity since having created agriculture.  There was man before and man after.  All of our civilizations are due to agriculture, so it makes little sense to talk of the nature of man before agriculture to me.  It's not something that exists much in our current world...except maybe with the small percentage of hunter gatherers left in isolated pockets. 

Quote
If you go back to college full time, how would you make your truck payment and credit card bills?

RE

Well I would keep running my business to the best of my ability while in school.  Far as the credit cards go...

Fuck I don't know...bankruptcy?  Trump did it four times.  It's a rock and a hard place I'm in between man.  It might just be too late for me to use my brains to advance much...maybe I can turn to a life of crime?  You don't need many credentials for that I hear.  My business is a successful one until winter rolls around.  Maybe I should move to Florida where you can cut grass year round.  I'm told the way you survive as a landscaper (by other successful landscapers) is that you have to get wealthy clients that agree to pay you somewhere around $300 a month.  I'd just need maybe five or so of them and I'd be golden...but that doesn't happen over night.  I'm also concerned about the viability of what I do when gas prices go back up to $4 a gallon. 

It's starting to look like it's going to be back to the meat wagon for me.  This exercise in collapse now and avoid the rush didn't really pan out.  I think between a paramedic salary and the money I can make landscaping we'll be fine.  But that means it's back to school for me so that I can get those certifications.  One thing I know for sure is that Permaculture sure as hell ain't payin' the bills for me.  And bamboo...nobody fuckin' cares about bamboo in America.  The other intern is in Taiwan right now learning to make furniture in a land where they actually value and use bamboo.  The best you can do here is specialize in bamboo grove removal...which is sort of the opposite of what I want to do.  Just as gettin' paid to keep a monoculture of green grass yards for people is sort of not the point...nor is driving around a hemi.  I'm doing those things for money. 

My biggest concern with getting back on the meat wagon is dealing with all that meat.  I really don't want to do that again, but there's that pyramid...and money...and the mandate that I go and get

Online K-Dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3558
    • View Profile
    • K-Dog
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2016, 12:04:04 PM »
Quote
If I had not been so idealistic I would have finished my stint in the navy and got a job making 80 to 100 grand to start working in a nuke plant.

That was also me when I was very young but as fate would have it, nuke plants stopped being built for a long time.  We'd not have had jobs anyway.  But in a twisted dream we both could have been:



Whoo Hoo !

The experience taught me how to live within my means so I worked eight, nine and then a big twelve dollars an hour in various jobs putting myself through school with my own family.  It took years working full time but I did it.  Not being hooked up the traditional way of having college paid for meant that I entered at the bottom of the salary pyramid which at the time was OK with me.  The difference between a starting professional salary and what I took to be a good hourly wage was obscenely different.  I was getting a significant raise.  That was years ago and the hit taken by having to enter at the bottom of my new social class evened out over time. 

But you know the story.  The upper middle class was decimated by chronic unemployment like the lower middle class was.  It just happened a bit later and I became a casualty of that.    I survived, I suffered the worst and like huge numbers of others was taken advantage of when work was available. But I got back on my feet.  Now like you and most everybody else I hang on trying to get by.

My property taxes now could not even get paid by one of my old eight, nine or big twelve dollars an hour jobs and people were begging for 15 dollars an hour as a minimum wage in the last election.  Things have not changed at all for those who have not over the years.  For those with a little bit more than that things have gotten and are getting worse.  But I have property now as long as I can pay the feudal lord his taxes.

And the utilities, and all the maintenance on the property and the house. 

Yet for the small island of freedom it gives me while I am vertical it is worth it.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 12:16:03 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 12:17:05 PM »
And the utilities, and all the maintenance on the property and the house. 

Yet for the small island of freedom it gives me while I am vertical it is worth it.

Shit!!!  I have property to...almost four acres.  Guess what, the city is fucking us over on that one.  We had a well and septic...then the house burned down.  Apparently we had 180 days to rebuild before we lost the grandfather status on those things.  Now we need city water and sewer.  Water will cost about 4 grand and here's the best part...sewer...can't even get it done.  Our two options for sewer are to convince those abutting our property to allow us to tear up their fuckin' lawns so we can hook up onto the existing city sewer infrastructure. 

We're zoned residential and the only options we have are either stick built or modular.  They will allow no other dwelling type to be lived in on the property.  Never mind that there is a trailer park with probably over 100 trailers not more than a couple of foot ball fields away from our location.  We're also in the city, landlocked by a business that is in front of us, on main street, that is in the county.  How does that happen?

We went to a meeting with the city officials last week to see what our options are.  They said they would not rezone so that I could have a bamboo nursery because "it would make their job more difficult."  So basically we have 4 acres in the city that we can do nothing with and nobody is going to buy it.  Oh, and our property taxes went up about $600 dollars because the house burned down.  So now I have a $1500 dollar per year tax burden as well as the liability of being 70 miles away from this property. 

If the god damned city officials would get out of the way and let us inhabit our "property" than I wouldn't have this problem.  There is a 600 sqft stick built garage still standing.  We could easily add on to it and live there.  But the bureaucracy will not allow it.  It means nothing to own property.  At best, you are only ever renting it from the government. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 12:19:16 PM by luciddreams »

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 40250
    • View Profile
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2016, 12:18:12 PM »

I don't recall having written about the pyramidal structure, I just divided the society into the Haves and the Have Nots. 

Isn't a feudal system essentially a pyramid?  King, lesser kings, dukes, serfs...so on so forth.  People with more, a little less, a little less still, and least?  The idea being that those with the most are fewest in number all the way down to the bottom which has the most in number...making a pyramid?  Geesh RE, I figured you could figure that on your own.

Depends how you look at it.  In Feudal society, the Nobles are the Haves and the Peasants (serfs) are the Have Nots.  A pyramidal structure does develop over time with the Haves, yes, but that's not part of Human Nature, it's an artifact of agricultural society.

Quote
Far as Human Nature goes, I don't think Private Property is Human Nature, I think it's an artifact of af the development of Agriculture.

My contention is that it's an artifact of the pyramidal structure we are assembled in, which is itself an artifact of the "law of the jungle," or "dog eat dog world."  I would say that agriculture has shaped human nature at this point.  We have evolved to a different entity since having created agriculture.  There was man before and man after.  All of our civilizations are due to agriculture, so it makes little sense to talk of the nature of man before agriculture to me.  It's not something that exists much in our current world...except maybe with the small percentage of hunter gatherers left in isolated pockets. 

I don't think Human Nature changes, what changes are the cultural parameters that nature exists in.  You have to behave a certain way because the culture surrounding you demands it.  That's where the cognitive dissonance comes in.

Quote
If you go back to college full time, how would you make your truck payment and credit card bills?

RE

Well I would keep running my business to the best of my ability while in school.  Far as the credit cards go...

Fuck I don't know...bankruptcy?  Trump did it four times.  It's a rock and a hard place I'm in between man.  It might just be too late for me to use my brains to advance much...maybe I can turn to a life of crime?  You don't need many credentials for that I hear.  My business is a successful one until winter rolls around.  Maybe I should move to Florida where you can cut grass year round.  I'm told the way you survive as a landscaper (by other successful landscapers) is that you have to get wealthy clients that agree to pay you somewhere around $300 a month.  I'd just need maybe five or so of them and I'd be golden...but that doesn't happen over night.  I'm also concerned about the viability of what I do when gas prices go back up to $4 a gallon. 

It's starting to look like it's going to be back to the meat wagon for me.  This exercise in collapse now and avoid the rush didn't really pan out.  I think between a paramedic salary and the money I can make landscaping we'll be fine.  But that means it's back to school for me so that I can get those certifications.  One thing I know for sure is that Permaculture sure as hell ain't payin' the bills for me.  And bamboo...nobody fuckin' cares about bamboo in America.  The other intern is in Taiwan right now learning to make furniture in a land where they actually value and use bamboo.  The best you can do here is specialize in bamboo grove removal...which is sort of the opposite of what I want to do.  Just as gettin' paid to keep a monoculture of green grass yards for people is sort of not the point...nor is driving around a hemi.  I'm doing those things for money. 

My biggest concern with getting back on the meat wagon is dealing with all that meat.  I really don't want to do that again, but there's that pyramid...and money...and the mandate that I go and get

Trump declared corporate bankruptcy, not personal bankruptcy.  There's a big difference.  In a personal bankruptcy, they can take what assets you do have, like the truck.  Then you got no way of running you bizness.

The meat wagon doesn't earn any more money than you do as a landscaper, we've already been over that.  What you need to do is have another bizness you run during the winter.  Or take on work in retail over the holidays. How about driving for Uber or Lyft?

Save As Many As You Can

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 40250
    • View Profile
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 12:26:04 PM »
And the utilities, and all the maintenance on the property and the house. 

Yet for the small island of freedom it gives me while I am vertical it is worth it.

Shit!!!  I have property to...almost four acres.  Guess what, the city is fucking us over on that one.  We had a well and septic...then the house burned down.  Apparently we had 180 days to rebuild before we lost the grandfather status on those things.  Now we need city water and sewer.  Water will cost about 4 grand and here's the best part...sewer...can't even get it done.  Our two options for sewer are to convince those abutting our property to allow us to tear up their fuckin' lawns so we can hook up onto the existing city sewer infrastructure. 

We're zoned residential and the only options we have are either stick built or modular.  They will allow no other dwelling type to be lived in on the property.  Never mind that there is a trailer park with probably over 100 trailers not more than a couple of foot ball fields away from our location.  We're also in the city, landlocked by a business that is in front of us, on main street, that is in the county.  How does that happen?

We went to a meeting with the city officials last week to see what our options are.  They said they would not rezone so that I could have a bamboo nursery because "it would make their job more difficult."  So basically we have 4 acres in the city that we can do nothing with and nobody is going to buy it.  Oh, and our property taxes went up about $600 dollars because the house burned down.  So now I have a $1500 dollar per year tax burden as well as the liability of being 70 miles away from this property. 

If the god damned city officials would get out of the way and let us inhabit our "property" than I wouldn't have this problem.  There is a 600 sqft stick built garage still standing.  We could easily add on to it and live there.  But the bureaucracy will not allow it.  It means nothing to own property.  At best, you are only ever renting it from the government.

If you can't do anything with the property and you can't sell it, then just donate it to the city for a park, and take the value of the donation as a tax deduction.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2016, 12:36:55 PM »

If you can't do anything with the property and you can't sell it, then just donate it to the city for a park, and take the value of the donation as a tax deduction.

RE

well I'm thinking of just lowering the price down to like 20 grand and hoping that some investor may bite.  It's less than 30 minutes from Charlotte.  Somebody with enough money could grease the rock hill bureacracy wheels and get the zoning changed so that they could build another subdivision (there is already a subdivision bordering the property).  The problem is that we can't afford the property taxes (well at least the immediate problem). 

Life's not fair.  That's the lesson to be learned.  And there is no room for idealism as well.  Idealism is a waste of time and energy.  You have to be able to afford to be ideal...otherwise you need money. 

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 40250
    • View Profile
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2016, 12:41:13 PM »
Here's an idea for you.

Take the HR Block Tax Accounting Course and be a Tax Preparer in the off season for Landscaping.  Tax Season is Nov-April, works perfect.

With your big brain, this should be EZ for you.  You can probably get the whole course done by next season too.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Online K-Dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3558
    • View Profile
    • K-Dog
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2016, 12:42:11 PM »
And the utilities, and all the maintenance on the property and the house. 

Yet for the small island of freedom it gives me while I am vertical it is worth it.

Shit!!!  I have property to...almost four acres.  Guess what, the city is fucking us over on that one.  We had a well and septic...then the house burned down.  Apparently we had 180 days to rebuild before we lost the grandfather status on those things.  Now we need city water and sewer.  Water will cost about 4 grand and here's the best part...sewer...can't even get it done.  Our two options for sewer are to convince those abutting our property to allow us to tear up their fuckin' lawns so we can hook up onto the existing city sewer infrastructure. 

We're zoned residential and the only options we have are either stick built or modular.  They will allow no other dwelling type to be lived in on the property.  Never mind that there is a trailer park with probably over 100 trailers not more than a couple of foot ball fields away from our location.  We're also in the city, landlocked by a business that is in front of us, on main street, that is in the county.  How does that happen?

We went to a meeting with the city officials last week to see what our options are.  They said they would not rezone so that I could have a bamboo nursery because "it would make their job more difficult."  So basically we have 4 acres in the city that we can do nothing with and nobody is going to buy it.  Oh, and our property taxes went up about $600 dollars because the house burned down.  So now I have a $1500 dollar per year tax burden as well as the liability of being 70 miles away from this property. 

If the god damned city officials would get out of the way and let us inhabit our "property" than I wouldn't have this problem.  There is a 600 sqft stick built garage still standing.  We could easily add on to it and live there.  But the bureaucracy will not allow it.  It means nothing to own property.  At best, you are only ever renting it from the government.

Having to hook up to the city sewer is a bitch.  I'd guess you'd be looking at a $20 K bill for that.  As far as the neighbors go, having their lawns ripped up to run pipe for city sewer?  There is nothing they can do about that.  If you have the cash to lay the pipe you can't be stopped.  In your case all your contractor would have to do is file the paperwork and the city will give the neighbors notice.

Your neighbors are not alone but sewer pipes rarely explode so you are doing nothing wrong in having sewer pipe run to your property.  Something which is quite different from this situation.


because:


They do explode and they actually do it rather frequently.


« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 12:46:51 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2016, 12:55:22 PM »
Here's an idea for you.

Take the HR Block Tax Accounting Course and be a Tax Preparer in the off season for Landscaping.  Tax Season is Nov-April, works perfect.

With your big brain, this should be EZ for you.  You can probably get the whole course done by next season too.

RE

yep, that's a pretty damn good idea RE.  I'll have to look into it.  It does work perfect.  I still have work now.  I put a lot of the restoration type shit off as long as I can.  Mulch jobs as well, but unfortunately the real good money is when grass is growing.  I can make about $500 a day.  Although I don't because I really don't want to work that hard in our heat.  Also because I don't like pissing customers off and dealing with pissy customers.  So I limit myself on clients because of that.  Next year I might just drop that policy and get as many yards as I can and cut grass from 7 to 9 six days a week.  Had I done that this season I'd have saved enough money.  As it is, I've got enough to make it till about March. 

However Wendy is ready to have our own place (and so am I).  It's mostly been a failed experiment for many reasons.  The main reason is the American program of growing up and having your own home rather than multi-generational family home like they still do in other parts of the world.  However those are usually multi story buildings (at least that's my understanding) where each generation sort of has the privacy of their own level. 

If we could continue to make this arrangement work than we'd be just fine with both GM and I doing the photography/landscape hustles.  What we lack is guaranteed income which is what we need to go pay rent somewhere.  It's hard to leave a situation where you don't have rent because the property is owned by family.  It's especially hard when you are aware of the likely future (which is just paying attention). 

I realize that these are all first world problems.  I'm grateful to not be on a dingy with 100 other mofo's trying to make it to a land where you don't have to worry about having a bomb dropped on your head.  However, shit is relative...and relatives can be ass holes.  I learned while on the meat wagon that it's family that will fuck you up faster than anybody else.  I learned that by watching it happen over and over again...and that seems to be especially true here in Merika where we have so much dysfunction where being descent people is concerned.   

Offline azozeo

  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 9725
    • View Profile
Re: Private Property Myths & Legends
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2016, 12:57:50 PM »

If you can't do anything with the property and you can't sell it, then just donate it to the city for a park, and take the value of the donation as a tax deduction.

RE

well I'm thinking of just lowering the price down to like 20 grand and hoping that some investor may bite.  It's less than 30 minutes from Charlotte.  Somebody with enough money could grease the rock hill bureacracy wheels and get the zoning changed so that they could build another subdivision (there is already a subdivision bordering the property).  The problem is that we can't afford the property taxes (well at least the immediate problem). 

Life's not fair.  That's the lesson to be learned.  And there is no room for idealism as well.  Idealism is a waste of time and energy.  You have to be able to afford to be ideal...otherwise you need money.

Sell the property for appraised value( other lots in area in the last 6 mos.) & carry the note. 8% interest, balloon due in 10-15 yrs. Down needs to be closing costs plus your time & trouble,
usually 5 benjamins minimum. Market on Craigs list & college classifieds. Put the hook to a millennial.
Go to Staples or an office supply & buy the land contract package. If you need help filling out the contract, one of the
nice gals at the title office can help. They want your bizness.
Should be a slam dunk. I won't charge you for my services bro.  Good luck  :icon_sunny:
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
4057 Views
Last post May 17, 2013, 02:52:41 PM
by agelbert
9 Replies
1545 Views
Last post February 09, 2017, 04:16:21 AM
by RE
0 Replies
4909 Views
Last post September 15, 2019, 05:35:45 PM
by azozeo