AuthorTopic: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread  (Read 191218 times)

Offline Surly1

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Re: 🤡 Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2280 on: November 23, 2019, 03:22:49 AM »
EVERYBODY KNOWS who the "Whistleblower" is/was!  He's been Outted by a variety of Right-Wing websites and radio shows.

Trumpovetsky is a Pathological Liar. If he opens his mouth or hits his keyboard,you can be sure he is lying.  Are there really people who believe any of this bullshit?  I don't think even the Mouth Breathers believe him, they just DON'T CARE that he is lying.

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Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying

You may want to check that assertion against the polling, which is as good an evidence as we have.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/impeachment-trump-republicans/601984/

Quote
The larger question the hearings may raise, then, is whether the partisan divide has widened to the point where Republican voters and elected officials alike will not consider valid any process controlled by Democrats, no matter how powerful the evidence it produces. If that’s the case, it points toward a future in which partisan loyalties eclipse, to a growing extent, any shared national commitment to applying the rule of law across party lines.

Applying "the rule of law across party lines" gets tougher when we don't agree on what "facts" are. Part off why I'm such a bitch about disinformation on these pages.

Most people who live in trump world have much idea that this is going on, because very little gets through their info ecosystem. This the triumph of Roger Ailes' vision of "GOP TV" during the Nixon years. FNC regularly trumpets disinformation to its captive base of angry Fox News grandpas. And then there is another layer of right wing hate radio.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline RE

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Re: 🤡 Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2281 on: November 23, 2019, 06:49:11 AM »
The Polls don't show that anybody BELIEVES Trumpofsky, just that most Repugnants still SUPPORT him.  The issue here is they just DON'T CARE that he is lying, or that he tried to bribe the Ukies.  To a Repugnant, having a Criminal Pathological Liar as POTUS is better than having...GOD FORBID... a SOCIALIST!  Oh, the HORROR!.  :o
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Offline Surly1

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Re: 🤡 Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2282 on: November 23, 2019, 10:34:46 AM »
The Polls don't show that anybody BELIEVES Trumpofsky, just that most Repugnants still SUPPORT him.  The issue here is they just DON'T CARE that he is lying, or that he tried to bribe the Ukies.  To a Repugnant, having a Criminal Pathological Liar as POTUS is better than having...GOD FORBID... a SOCIALIST!  Oh, the HORROR!.  :o

To your point:


This is what state propaganda does for you: you have people ready to invest their very identities.

We all know it's over; we're just waiting for the bill.
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🤡 This week's impeachment recap
« Reply #2283 on: November 23, 2019, 10:35:32 AM »
Great Theater!  ;D

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Offline Surly1

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Trump’s legal strategy: If you can’t beat the case, beat the system
« Reply #2284 on: November 23, 2019, 10:47:10 AM »
Trump’s legal strategy: If you can’t beat the case, beat the system

Book review of Plaintiff in Chief: A Portrait of Donald Trump in 3,500 Lawsuits by James D. Zirin - The Washington Post

Lawyer Roy Cohn, pictured in 1954, later became a mentor to Donald Trump, teaching him to use the law as a weapon against his opponents. (AP)
Lawyer Roy Cohn, pictured in 1954, later became a mentor to Donald Trump, teaching him to use the law as a weapon against his opponents. (AP)

Donald Trump’s friend, lawyer and mentor Roy Cohn had an adage: “F--- the law,” he liked to say, according to a new book by attorney James D. Zirin. “Who’s the judge?” He meant that, although idealists might imagine that the courts were august and impartial, the judiciary was in fact made up of people who could be bullied or bamboozled or bought off. To Cohn, politics was a brutal and unfair game, and the law was just an extension of politics, with extra paperwork. If you understood that, he believed, you could get a huge head start on the idealists.

For a young Trump, this was a foundational lesson, according to Zirin. In his book “Plaintiff in Chief: A Portrait of Donald Trump in 3,500 Lawsuits,” Zirin argues that Trump learned to see the law as Cohn did: “not as a system of rules to be obeyed . . . but as a potent weapon to be used against his adversaries.” Trump sued often but rarely won big. Winning in court wasn’t always the point: The lawsuit itself was the thing, a tool of intimidation cloaked in legalese, an outgoing missile that left your enemies buried in costs and hassle. That approach had costs for Trump, too. But he could bear them. He lost friends, wives, lawyers and business partners — but always found new ones, who thought their fate would be different.

Zirin has good timing: His book arrives as Trump faces the legal fight of his career, using all the tools he honed in a lifetime of lawsuits. So far this year, Trump has sued those investigating him, including House committees and the Manhattan district attorney, to stop them from obtaining his financial documents. He has also attacked those pursuers out of court, trying to tar his enemies as partisans seeking “a coup” to overturn the 2016 election. Instead of submitting to precedent, he has ignored it — and posited a theory that, in the eyes of the law, a president is like a temporary emperor. In a recent appeals court hearing, a judge asked Trump’s attorney what would happen if the president shot somebody on New York’s Fifth Avenue.

 (All Points)

“Local authorities couldn’t investigate? They couldn’t do anything about it?” Judge Denny Chin asked, adding, “Nothing could be done? That is your position?”

“That is correct,” said Trump’s private attorney.

All of it came from the playbook that Zirin lays out: confuse, deny, delay. If you can’t beat the case, beat the system, by exploiting its human flaws.

As a former federal prosecutor and longtime private attorney, Zirin has depended on the idea that the law is legitimate and no man is above it. So he sees Trump’s life — and now his presidency — as an attack on that legitimacy. “Trump’s position,” he writes, is “that he is either above the law or released from the obligation of observing it.” If everybody starts to think that way, Zirin says, the system collapses.

Despite its subtitle, Zirin’s book isn’t actually about all 3,500 lawsuits Trump has been involved in — the number comes from a USA Today report, and Zirin admits that he hasn’t read them all or even counted them for himself. Instead, he focuses on a smaller set of legal cases from various phases of Trump’s life: his days as a Manhattan developer, his bankruptcy-plagued time in Atlantic City, the allegations of sexual misconduct during “The Apprentice” years and his time fighting the Mueller investigation as president.

The book has flaws: It is overlong and repetitive. The Mueller chapter, in particular, is breathless and disjointed, as the author tried to keep up with the fast-unfolding saga. But this is still one of the most useful and readable accounts of Trump’s early career in business. Zirin does not get lost in the clouds of flimflam that have spewed out of Trump for decades, which other biographers have taken as their mission to prove or disprove. That leaves them wandering endlessly in a fog of old boasting, trying to evaluate claims about 30-year-old real estate deals or now-demolished casinos.

Instead, Zirin focuses on a pattern that repeats across the president’s adult life. Trump discovered early on that, if you’re wealthy, most of life — including much of the law — operates on an honor system. People obey the rules without being forced to do so, out of shame or respect or fear. If you just don’t obey, Trump realized, these systems take a long time to catch up, if they ever do. “What is clear in the law becomes contestable for Trump,” Zirin writes.

As a reporter for The Washington Post, I’ve covered Trump since the start of 2016. I first saw him apply this approach to the honor system that governs tax-exempt charities. It turns out that the IRS, which enforces charity law, essentially outsources most of its enforcement to the charities themselves: If they break the law, they’re supposed to report it. Trump’s charity — the Donald J. Trump Foundation — repeatedly engaged in conduct that was in violation of the rules, such as aiding his presidential campaign, paying off legal settlements for Trump’s private businesses and buying large paintings that featured Trump himself. He didn’t volunteer the violations to the IRS. It wasn’t until after my reporting, and a 21-month investigation by the New York attorney general, that a lawsuit was filed. It took until this month for Trump’s actions to finally catch up with him: A New York judge ordered him to pay $2 million in damages, a stunning rebuke for a sitting president.

Zirin describes how Trump applied the same approach to duck, minimize or avoid consequences for a number of questionable actions by his businesses. One was Trump University, a program of real estate seminars that was accused of fraud after taking thousands from customers and providing little education of value. Trump was sued, and he settled — after winning the presidency. “So who won and who lost?” Zirin writes. “Trump lost little. He only had to give back the fees he had stolen from his victims. . . . He did not admit guilt.”

“In the world of Trump, admitting guilt is shameful,” Zirin explains. “Redemption doesn’t come with confession.”

Zirin’s book is a valuable guide to Trump’s mind-set and a good primer for the months ahead as a series of investigations close in on the president. Back to Cohn’s old saying: “Who’s the judge?” Trump seems to believe he can count on the Supreme Court, to which he appointed two justices, to deflect prosecutors’ inquiries. But he also faces impeachment proceedings in the House and the Senate, where his fate will be decided by politicians, not judges.

Trump, of course, has boasted that he will never make like Richard Nixon and resign. Zirin seems to have doubts. In cases like the one involving Trump University, Trump had vowed never to give in — and then gave in, settling the case, walking away, declaring victory in retreat. Even Cohn, in the end, couldn’t beat the system forever: He was disbarred in 1986, five weeks before he died. Zirin closes the book with a quote from Cohn about how hard it is to be where Trump is now, fighting the system on every side at once: “No public man can remain indefinitely at the center of controversy.”

"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline RE

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Re: 🤡 Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2285 on: November 23, 2019, 10:48:46 AM »
We all know it's over; we're just waiting for the bill.

EVERYBODY KNOWS.

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Offline Surly1

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Trump Just Repeated the Russian Conspiracy Theory Republicans Deny He Believes
« Reply #2286 on: November 23, 2019, 10:57:20 AM »
Trump Just Repeated the Russian Conspiracy Theory Republicans Deny He Believes

Photo: Brendan Smialowski/AFP via Getty Images

Yesterday, Fiona Hill testified that President Trump and his allies have circulated “a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves,” absolving Vladimir Putin of interference in the election by claiming Ukrainians, not Russian hackers, actually stole Democratic emails in 2016. Republicans indignantly denied the charge. Byron York called it a “willfully misleading statement.” Devin Nunes angrily replied, and the Trump War Room quickly posted a clip of his response on YouTube, headlined, “Devin Nunes Destroys Fiona Hill’s False Claim About Republicans Denying Russian Meddling.”

This morning, Trump gave an interview to Fox & Friends repeating the very theory Republicans so angrily denied he has ever promoted. As the friendly hosts looked on apprehensively, Trump began unspooling a wild theory he has mentioned before, and invoked on his phone call to Ukrainian president Zelensky. The theory posits that Ukrainians hacked Democratic emails, framed Russia, and kept the server they hacked to hide their crime. It fixates on the role of CrowdStrike, a cybersecurity firm that helped the FBI solve the crime.

Trump called CrowdStrike “a company owned by a very wealthy Ukrainian … why did they give it to a Ukrainian company?” None of this is true. CrowdStrike is not owned by Ukrainians. The FBI did examine the server. Ukrainians don’t have it. And Robert Mueller proved that Russian hackers carried out the email hack. An obviously concerned Steve Doocy, apparently aware that Trump was blowing up the defense Republicans had laid out the day before, asked, “Are you sure they have it?” Trump seemed sure.

Trump seems to enjoy confusing his supporters by constantly shifting the party line. One day they must deny Trump ever said a thing, and the next day Trump will say that thing. Along these lines, Trump proclaimed that deep state is a phrase he avoids. “A lot of people say ‘deep state.’ I don’t like to use the word deep state,” he said. Trump has in fact used the phrase some two dozen times on Twitter alone, along with innumerable mentions in speeches and other public remarks.

Trump proceeded to deny yesterday’s testimony by David Holmes that he heard Trump speak to Gordon Sondland in a restaurant in Kiev this summer, because Trump was shouting so loud Sondland had to hold the phone away from his ear. “The guy yesterday on the telephone … I can’t hear guys making calls,” he shouted. “That was a total phony deal, that was a phony — call it ‘deep state,’ call it ‘anti-Trump people,’” he ranted, having apparently forgotten having said just a few minutes before that he doesn’t use the phrase deep state.

Also, Trump made some time to confess to some light war crimes. “I just pulled out of Syria except I kept the oil,” he said. Trump has frequently claimed that the United States seized oil from Syria, which would be a war crime if it were true, which it fortunately is not.

Here he seems to be saying that he personally kept the oil. So can federal agents search his properties for the stolen oil?

"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline RE

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Re: 🤡 Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2287 on: November 23, 2019, 11:07:00 AM »
We all know it's over; we're just waiting for the bill.

EVERYBODY KNOWS.


Besides the fact that EVERYBODY KNOWS is the fact the BILL CANNOT BE PAID.  It is IRREEDEMABLE DEBT.

I only hope I can stay above ground long enough to see it from this side of the Great Divide.  It will be something to behold.  If not though, I will Witness from my Sky Box reserved for me in the Great Beyond.

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Offline Surly1

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread/Heather Cox Richardson
« Reply #2288 on: November 24, 2019, 05:38:38 AM »
November 23, 2019 (Saturday)

Today was a relatively quiet day in the ongoing Ukraine scandal saga… except for Rudy Giuliani, the man who bills himself as Trump’s lawyer. Today, he went onto the Fox News Channel to give an interview and, when asked if he worried about his future with the president, asserted that “I’ve seen things written like ‘he is going to throw me under the bus.’ When they say that, I say ‘he isn’t, but I have insurance.” Then he reiterated that he and the president are on good terms.

And then, several hours later, he tweeted: “TRUTH ALERT: The statement I’ve made several times of having an insurance policy, if thrown under bus, is sarcastic & relates to the files in my safe about the Biden Family’s 4 decade monetizing of his office. If I disappear, it will appear immediately along with my RICO chart.”
Huh? This sounds nuts, but it’s actually interesting. (I mean, it is nuts, too, but it seems to be part of an interesting story about truth).

Giuliani also tweeted pictures of a letter, dated yesterday, he wrote to South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, the chair of the House Judiciary Committee, who announced Thursday he is opening an investigation into the Bidens and their dealings in Ukraine. Giuliani’s letter is unhinged, a four-page mashup of various buzz words calling the impeachment investigation “the Schiff Frameup,” for example, based on “double-hearsay rumors, guesses, surmises, questionable overhears, and a hysterical Trump-hating media.” But it puts together the argument that he has “three (3) witnesses” who, he claims “have direct (non-hearsay) evidence of Democrat criminal conspiracy with Ukrainians to prevent Donald J. Trump from being President, with the alternative to remove him from office based on contrived charges.” He goes on to say that the witnesses “have oral, documentary, and recorded evidence of the Biden Family’s involvement in bribery, money laundering,… extortion, and other possible crimes.” Acting Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor is refusing to issue visas for these “witnesses,” and Giuliani was writing to Graham to see if he would facilitate their visit to America to testify.

Also yesterday, in the midst of all the other breaking stories, the New York Times ran a story echoing Dr. Fiona Hill’s testimony from Thursday, saying that the idea that it was Ukraine and not Russia that attacked us in 2016 is part of a Russian disinformation campaign and Republicans have been taken in by it. So now we have powerful testimony from Russia expert Hill warning us that Russia attacked us in 2016 and is doing so again, and that we simply must stop spreading stories that it was not Russia but rather was Ukraine because such stories weaken America, and we also have a story from the New York Times further debunking the Ukraine story. And yet, we continue to have key figures in the Trump administration pushing that very story. Indeed, much of Trump’s rant to Fox and Friends yesterday morning was about how Ukraine tried to prevent his election in 2016.

So why is Giuliani harping on this topic today? I think Trump's folks are desperate not only to keep voters thinking that Ukraine and not Russia is our enemy, but also to continue to exercise dominance by making people believe things that are not true. If you can force people to accept as reality something that is demonstrably false, you prove to both of you that they are the ones in charge and you will submit. That’s why it’s so darned important to Trump to be right about everything, so important that he’ll alter a weather chart with a Sharpie.

So how do we figure out what’s real?

First of all, look at what people DO, not what they SAY. So, for example, after CNN broke the story that the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee Devin Nunes (R-CA) was in on the attempt to smear the Bidens, right-wing noisemaker Ben Shapiro’s The Daily Wire ran a story saying: “Devin Nunes To Take Swift Legal Action Against CNN For ‘Demonstrably False’ Story.” Note that Nunes did not actually take action, he just said he would later. Maybe, but if he does, CNN would get access to tons of information. If the story really is “demonstrably false,” Nunes, who sues people a lot, would absolutely sue. But so far he hasn’t. He just SAID he was going to, which got headlines and convinced some people that the CNN story was false.

The conditions under which people talk also matter. Witnesses in the hearings last week testified under oath, and lying under oath is a crime. After Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland implicated Energy Secretary Rick Perry in the Ukraine scandal, Perry gave an outraged interview to a Fox News show vehemently denying it. But Perry was not under oath, and there is no penalty for lying to the media, as Trump’s former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski helpfully told the House Judiciary Committee in September. It is notable that most of the key figures in the Ukraine scandal are refusing to testify under oath, and are attacking the public servants who are.

News sources should have actual evidence in them, like documents, testimony under oath, independent experts, or film clips that have not been deceptively edited. For example, activist Charlie Kirk tweeted today, “Did you know: the largest single donor to the Clinton Foundation is Ukraine with $10 MILLION in contributions How may Obama-era officials are complicit in Ukranian corruption? Both Biden & Clinton need to testify This is a massive scandal Trump is bringing it all to light.” This tweet reinforces Russian propaganda, of course, and it is also a straight up, easily checkable, lie.

These distinctions are going to matter more and more in the days to come. As pressure on the president and his people mounts, the disinformation campaign against Ukraine and the Bidens is going to get intense. Yesterday, the New York Times published information about the upcoming Department of Justice Inspector General’s report into the origins of the investigation into Trump’s campaign, which Republicans have called an illegitimate Democratic witch hunt because, they said, it started with the Steele Dossier, which they insist was a Democratic operation. The IG apparently will conclude the opposite: that the investigation was legitimate, and that it did not start with the Steele Dossier (as the facts have established all along). Apparently, an FBI attorney did falsify a document, but the IG says that did not affect the legitimacy of the investigation.

Nonetheless, Trump’s rant to Fox and Friends yesterday echoed the debunked story that Democrats framed Russia for interfering in the 2016 election, and that there is a DNC server hidden in Ukraine. And Trump claimed the investigation Attorney General William Barr has tapped John Durham to undertake, rather than relying on the Department of Justice’s IG report, is going to break the story wide open.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2289 on: November 24, 2019, 11:15:59 PM »
The Polls don't show that anybody BELIEVES Trumpofsky, just that most Repugnants still SUPPORT him.  The issue here is they just DON'T CARE that he is lying, or that he tried to bribe the Ukies.  To a Repugnant, having a Criminal Pathological Liar as POTUS is better than having...GOD FORBID... a SOCIALIST!  Oh, the HORROR!.  :o
You give too much credit.... there are plenty of people that believe Trump is an honest, upstanding citizen undergoing a smear campaign by the mainstream media.  I don't need polls, I know them first-hand.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline RE

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Re: Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2290 on: November 25, 2019, 03:42:30 AM »
The Polls don't show that anybody BELIEVES Trumpofsky, just that most Repugnants still SUPPORT him.  The issue here is they just DON'T CARE that he is lying, or that he tried to bribe the Ukies.  To a Repugnant, having a Criminal Pathological Liar as POTUS is better than having...GOD FORBID... a SOCIALIST!  Oh, the HORROR!.  :o
You give too much credit.... there are plenty of people that believe Trump is an honest, upstanding citizen undergoing a smear campaign by the mainstream media.  I don't need polls, I know them first-hand.

Nice 2 C U JDW!  :icon_sunny:

So, this "Smear Campaign" extends to the dozen or so people who Trump himself appointed and who testified?  They are ALL lying?

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Offline Surly1

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Re: Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2291 on: November 25, 2019, 04:22:40 AM »
The Polls don't show that anybody BELIEVES Trumpofsky, just that most Repugnants still SUPPORT him.  The issue here is they just DON'T CARE that he is lying, or that he tried to bribe the Ukies.  To a Repugnant, having a Criminal Pathological Liar as POTUS is better than having...GOD FORBID... a SOCIALIST!  Oh, the HORROR!.  :o
You give too much credit.... there are plenty of people that believe Trump is an honest, upstanding citizen undergoing a smear campaign by the mainstream media.  I don't need polls, I know them first-hand.

JDW is correct. Outside the cities, rural areas are brimming with such people uncontaminated by evidence. As long as the government delivers hard right judges and preserves white privilege and prerogatives, they are good.

And the people who love them are going to empty the graveyards to bring out the 2020 vote. Imagine a second Trump Term with a Repugnant Congress.

"Papa Doc Trump... President a Vie!"
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline RE

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🤡 Secretary of the Navy forced out
« Reply #2292 on: November 25, 2019, 04:24:48 AM »
If Trumpofsky gets on the wrong side of the MIC, he won't make it to the November elections.  You don't want to fuck with these people.

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Offline RE

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Re: Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2293 on: November 25, 2019, 04:29:49 AM »

JDW is correct. Outside the cities, rural areas are brimming with such people uncontaminated by evidence. As long as the government delivers hard right judges and preserves white privilege and prerogatives, they are good.

And the people who love them are going to empty the graveyards to bring out the 2020 vote. Imagine a second Trump Term with a Repugnant Congress.

"Papa Doc Trump... President a Vie!"

So you also predict not only that El Trumpo will be reelected but that CONgress will go all Repugnant in both houses?

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Offline Surly1

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Re: Trump Attacks Impeachment Inquiry and Accuses a Witness of Lying
« Reply #2294 on: November 25, 2019, 05:32:35 AM »

JDW is correct. Outside the cities, rural areas are brimming with such people uncontaminated by evidence. As long as the government delivers hard right judges and preserves white privilege and prerogatives, they are good.

And the people who love them are going to empty the graveyards to bring out the 2020 vote. Imagine a second Trump Term with a Repugnant Congress.

"Papa Doc Trump... President a Vie!"

So you also predict not only that El Trumpo will be reelected but that CONgress will go all Repugnant in both houses?

RE

Far too early to tell, but certain not beyond imagining. Depends on voter enthusiasm, voter turnout, the success of rebuke voter suppression tactics and whatever new electoral exotica Vlad's hackers throw into the mix. What I am saying is that anything is possible.

And a unified Trumpist government will lose no time in repealing the Twenty-Second amendment, which says a person can only be elected to be president two times for a total of eight years. Having the effect of providing permanent lifetime immunity to Trump for his many crimes.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

 

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