AuthorTopic: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread  (Read 100082 times)

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1320 on: July 05, 2018, 07:38:32 PM »
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Wikipedia: Warmbier was freed in June 2017, still in a comatose state after 17 months in captivity. He was repatriated to the United States, arriving in Cincinnati, Ohio, on June 13. He was taken to University of Cincinnati Medical Center for immediate evaluation and treatment, where his U.S. physicians found no evidence of botulism. Nevertheless, a coroner's report was unable to identify the cause of the injury, finding no obvious evidence of physical torture on Warmbier's body.[1] Warmbier never regained consciousness and died on June 19, 2017, six days after his return to the United States. U.S. officials blamed North Korea for his death.

So he wasn't dead when he was released, wasn't poisoned with botulism, wasn't tortured, and yet US officials blamed North Korea for his death.

On what evidence? - none.  You dishonest US apologist.  Are you on CIA's payroll?  I have NEVER been a NK apologist, I'm only saying he has had a bad press at the hands of the US.

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I think those dead bodies are plenty of evidence

What dead bodies?

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Because the Master of the "Art of the Deal" ran his mouth and got nothing. Kim agreed to a lot of ill-defined and empty promises and feasted on Trump's bloated ego.

What did they actually agree to?

To establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
To build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
"Reaffirming the April 27, 2018, Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work towards the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula."
To recovering POW/MIA remains.

Where are the definables? Measurables? You'd think that the administration might press these points with NK, but crickets. Where are the US commitments? Trump got his photo op with Little Kim, and made the case that a handful of nutcase fundamentalists will press for his Nobel Peace Prize. So he's done, and has moved on.

I agree with all that.

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This non-event was about nothing more than that.

You think Trump is going to bend history? He can't even read it. But you go ahead and keep blaming the media, all of whom are on the CIA payroll anyhow.

But it ISN'T finished.  There are still hawks who want to start a war on NK, and the negotiations have been left so that they can be renounced at any time, for any reason.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Agent Graves

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1321 on: July 05, 2018, 08:13:44 PM »
This non-event was about nothing more than that.

....all of whom are on the CIA payroll anyhow.

I would like to be wrong, but my cynic says this ends up a formality to satisfy "hey we tried".

Maybe the South China Morning Post, is picking on the fat brat for the CIA too:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2100944/seeking-refuge-slavery-how-north-koreans-become-victims
 

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Offline Surly1

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1322 on: July 06, 2018, 01:48:38 AM »
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Wikipedia: Warmbier was freed in June 2017, still in a comatose state after 17 months in captivity. He was repatriated to the United States, arriving in Cincinnati, Ohio, on June 13. He was taken to University of Cincinnati Medical Center for immediate evaluation and treatment, where his U.S. physicians found no evidence of botulism. Nevertheless, a coroner's report was unable to identify the cause of the injury, finding no obvious evidence of physical torture on Warmbier's body.[1] Warmbier never regained consciousness and died on June 19, 2017, six days after his return to the United States. U.S. officials blamed North Korea for his death.

So he wasn't dead when he was released, wasn't poisoned with botulism, wasn't tortured, and yet US officials blamed North Korea for his death.

On what evidence? - none.  You dishonest US apologist.  Are you on CIA's payroll?  I have NEVER been a NK apologist, I'm only saying he has had a bad press at the hands of the US.

Dishonest US apologist? Proof that you are just another post-first-read-nothing-understand-less internet cowboy. Warmbier left on his trip perfectly healthy, and returned utterly broken, all while he was in NK custody. Just a coincidence? All for the heinous crime of stealing a poster. And I'm the apologist? Now that's funny.

Oh, NK get s plenty of bad press, just as does Iran and Venezuela, plus any other regime with the bad judgment to put their country on OUR oil which is under their ground.

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I think those dead bodies are plenty of evidence

What dead bodies?

All the purge victims. His brother, his uncle, his former girlfriend. His many purgees, continuing that proud of NK tradition of gruesome execution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_officials_purged_and_executed_by_Kim_Jong-un
https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/29/asia/kim-jong-un-executions/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/02/10/north-korea-executions/80173970/

But this is CIA -paid media, you'll bleat. Predictably.



"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1323 on: July 06, 2018, 06:42:17 AM »
So you are saying CNN and USAToday are not CIA helpers?  Wikipedia only lists 7 people, and the "sources" are media like Chosun Ilbo (SK), NKNews (US), the Daily Telegraph (UK),  BBC (UK), Yahoo News (US) and the Daily Caller (US, run by Neil Patel, former chief policy advisor to Vice President Cheney) quoting South Korean Unification Ministry and CNN.

I don't need to say more.

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Surly: Dishonest US apologist? Proof that you are just another post-first-read-nothing-understand-less internet cowboy.

If you can call me a "dishonest NK apologist" over nothing, I can call you a "dishonest US apologist" over the above. 

Several times now you have gone on this blanket condemnation of "post-first-read-nothing-understand-less", and you have never explained what you mean and on what evidence this "proof" is based on.  I haven't the slightest idea what you are on about - please explain.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Eddie

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1324 on: July 06, 2018, 07:37:37 AM »
So you are saying CNN and USAToday are not CIA helpers?  Wikipedia only lists 7 people, and the "sources" are media like Chosun Ilbo (SK), NKNews (US), the Daily Telegraph (UK),  BBC (UK), Yahoo News (US) and the Daily Caller (US, run by Neil Patel, former chief policy advisor to Vice President Cheney) quoting South Korean Unification Ministry and CNN.

I don't need to say more.

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Surly: Dishonest US apologist? Proof that you are just another post-first-read-nothing-understand-less internet cowboy.

If you can call me a "dishonest NK apologist" over nothing, I can call you a "dishonest US apologist" over the above. 

Several times now you have gone on this blanket condemnation of "post-first-read-nothing-understand-less", and you have never explained what you mean and on what evidence this "proof" is based on.  I haven't the slightest idea what you are on about - please explain.

You're on shaky ground here, Palloy. This is a pretty clear case of a politically motivated arrest and death by neglect under the harshest prison conditions you can imagine. There is no positive spin possible here.

In my view, Surly went to some length to refute your imbecilic assertions of media bias and his ability to tell truth from bullshit. Your critique of his style doesn't hold water either.

So far here you've managed to piss off:

People who are worried about climate change

People who aren't willing to  quit BAU and power down to 7.2Kwh/day

People who don't think communist despots are fine people who should be respected more

Americans.

Most of us here are believers in Peak Oil, and the eventual collapse of JIT delivery, just like you. If you piss all of us off, who will you have left to talk to? 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 07:43:48 AM by Eddie »
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Offline Palloy2

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1325 on: July 06, 2018, 07:52:57 AM »
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In my view, Surly went to some length to refute your imbecilic assertions of media bias

Are you saying that my assertions of media bias are wrong? Both you and Surly have already agreed that they are right (but you say you can see through the bias).  I say you can't see through the bias, that's why you accept all this crap about NK, Venezuela, Iran, Syria leaders being tyrants.  What are you arguing about now?
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Eddie

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1326 on: July 06, 2018, 08:13:41 AM »
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In my view, Surly went to some length to refute your imbecilic assertions of media bias

Are you saying that my assertions of media bias are wrong? Both you and Surly have already agreed that they are right (but you say you can see through the bias).  I say you can't see through the bias, that's why you accept all this crap about NK, Venezuela, Iran, Syria leaders being tyrants.  What are you arguing about now?

No one has said it's NOT wrong. You're deliberately missing the point.

All of us here are fairly well-educated grown-ups who have some ability to read biased sources and take them with the necessary grain of salt. In other words, we aren't stupid sheep, Palloy.

The western media is biased, but this story about the unfortunate young guy who tried to take a poster for a souvenir and had to pay with his freedom and his life is not made up from the whole cloth. It's what happened.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1327 on: July 06, 2018, 08:25:41 AM »
Quote
In my view, Surly went to some length to refute your imbecilic assertions of media bias

Are you saying that my assertions of media bias are wrong? Both you and Surly have already agreed that they are right (but you say you can see through the bias).  I say you can't see through the bias, that's why you accept all this crap about NK, Venezuela, Iran, Syria leaders being tyrants.  What are you arguing about now?

No one has said it's NOT wrong. You're deliberately missing the point.

All of us here are fairly well-educated grown-ups who have some ability to read biased sources and take them with the necessary grain of salt. In other words, we aren't stupid sheep, Palloy.

The western media is biased, but this story about the unfortunate young guy who tried to take a poster for a souvenir and had to pay with his freedom and his life is not made up from the whole cloth. It's what happened.

Quote from: PY
Both you and Surly have already agreed that they are right (but you say you can see through the bias).  I say you can't see through the bias.

And I say you cannot see through your own. Naturally, I disagree.

There is a reason Plato's allegory of the cave is as potent a lesson today as it was 2000 years ago. (Shame that no one in this country reads any longer. Maybe if they offered it in 280-character installments...)

With PY, deliberately missing the point is a feature, not a bug. Likewise reframing.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1328 on: July 06, 2018, 03:20:35 PM »
Nobody knows what is going on in North Korea, when the only people reporting from there are their enemies.  But the demonisation of Kim is standard practise for US and CIA.  We have seen the same thing done in Cuba, Venezuela, Zimbabwe and on and on.  So without solid evidence, how can you say you haven't been persuaded by the liars, when you agree with their basic proposition that Kim is a murderer, tyrant, terrorist? 

It is a clear indication that you HAVE been persuaded.  I call it brainwashing, but that is a word that you violently dislike and makes you start the abuse of the messenger ("fuck you"), and outright lies like "dishonest NK apologist" which I'm sure you know is not true.  Adults don't talk to each other like that, (well, maybe they do in the US), so why are you doing it?

You have no idea of what happened with Otto Warmbier, except that he was a US citizen touring Hong Kong, then changed to North Korea, so should have been on his best behaviour.  Maybe he was a CIA agent and had all kinds of photographs on his camera, and sensitive documents in his possession.  As such he deserves to be executed, but was broken by his interrogation, and returned in a coma.  But no, you believe that proves Kim has murdered 344 people, runs concentration camps and prostitution rings, just like CNN says.

"we aren't stupid sheep, Palloy. "  I never said you were, but you have a lot to explain.  It would help if you could do it without the abuse, and the use of sarcasm (saying the opposite of what you mean for dramatic effect) and US-specific slang.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Agent Graves

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1329 on: July 06, 2018, 05:37:27 PM »
Nobody knows what is going on in North Korea, when the only people reporting from there are their enemies.  But the demonisation of Kim is standard practise for US and CIA.  We have seen the same thing done in Cuba, Venezuela, Zimbabwe and on and on.  So without solid evidence, how can you say you haven't been persuaded by the liars, when you agree with their basic proposition that Kim is a murderer, tyrant, terrorist? 

It is a clear indication that you HAVE been persuaded.  I call it brainwashing, but that is a word that you violently dislike and makes you start the abuse of the messenger ("fuck you"), and outright lies like "dishonest NK apologist" which I'm sure you know is not true.  Adults don't talk to each other like that, (well, maybe they do in the US), so why are you doing it?

You have no idea of what happened with Otto Warmbier, except that he was a US citizen touring Hong Kong, then changed to North Korea, so should have been on his best behaviour.  Maybe he was a CIA agent and had all kinds of photographs on his camera, and sensitive documents in his possession.  As such he deserves to be executed, but was broken by his interrogation, and returned in a coma.  But no, you believe that proves Kim has murdered 344 people, runs concentration camps and prostitution rings, just like CNN says.

"we aren't stupid sheep, Palloy. "  I never said you were, but you have a lot to explain.  It would help if you could do it without the abuse, and the use of sarcasm (saying the opposite of what you mean for dramatic effect) and US-specific slang.

For someone claiming to be as sensitive to syntax as a Tandy TRS, its odd how you can use "maybe" as premise for concrete "as such, deserved" conclusion. If the only people reporting from there are enemies of Kim as you claim, how did all these women reported on by the Chinese media become so hostile, are they just thankless and greedy like the Cuban asylum seekers? The better explanation is they left a living hell, where being sold on the other side of the north or south border was a preferable proposition.
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Offline Surly1

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How Conservative Trolls Lost Their Mojo
« Reply #1330 on: July 09, 2018, 05:49:13 PM »
How Conservative Trolls Lost Their Mojo
Itís hard to DGAF once youíre in power.




By

Illustration by Lisa Larson-Walker

If there’s one thing trolls know, it’s that there’s power in seeming dumber than you are. During the presidential campaign, Donald Trump pretended not to know who David Duke was. More recently, Dinesh D’Souza retweeted trailers to his film that contained hashtags like #bringbackslavery and #burntheJews and claimed afterward that he “didn’t see” them. A tiresome alt-right provocateur got banned from a service for sending a journalist $14.88—a coded Nazi reference—and later claimed it was “a joke.” The thing about this strategy is that it works: It even fooled the FBI. A Gamergate troll who sent women dozens of death threats and bomb threats a) confessed to doing it and b) admitted he knew it was a crime. But he said his threats were “a joke,” so his name was kept confidential by the FBI, and they let him go. Sometimes the mistakes really do seem dumb—Georgia Rep. Drew Ferguson tweeted an image of Nazi soldiers to celebrate D-Day, then corrected it. But the larger mission of claiming stupidity is to blur intentionality so much that it becomes impossible to parse.

Even though this claim to plausible idiocy persists—complete with a bizarre effort by White House staff to replicate Trump’s spelling mistakes when they tweet on his behalf—something curious has changed among the trolls and Pepes of the world since they first took the national stage. Trump won. And the thicket of fake accounts, bots, and genuine supporters has shifted slightly in response. For one thing, there’s been a slow but definite migration toward more respectable ground. As some Pepe trolls have been banned from Twitter since the election, even the more virulent accounts have largely traded in most of their frog avatars (one of which was declared a hate symbol by the Anti-Defamation League and semi-banned from Facebook) for American flags.

That’s why the same people who got their jollies with nihilist memes—“We have won the meme war,” alt-right activist Jack Posobiec tweeted on Election Day—are now busy, for example, calling ex-CIA director John Brennan a communist and retweeting protests of the Red Hen restaurant that evicted Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Bill Mitchell is paranoid that Twitter is deleting his “likes” and hiding posts from his followers. Where once a raucous and influential segment of the culture couldn’t stop slaying other people’s sacred cows, now they are angry that people aren’t showing enough respect. They’re paranoid and complain about having to “hidetheir love of Trump. People who mocked the suffering of childrenprofess outrage at how their entitled millionaire is being treated. Trump himself can’t stop complaining that everything is “very unfair!” This isn’t really the way trolls are supposed to sound; it’s thin-skinned and petulant.

Here’s what I think is happening: Now that the trolls have put their man in the White House and taken up tone-policing, their formerly exclusive DGAF attitude seems to be hybridizing with the get-off-my-lawn alarmism of Fox News. And it’s going both ways. While onetime edgy figures like Posobiec have taken on the affectations of state-television hackery, complete with never-ending finger-wagging outrage about Hillary Clinton and the Red Hen, more official actors have started to use the methods of the grassroots.

Take the GOP’s Twitter account. The social media voice of a major party tweeted an accusation last week that Democrat Richard Cordray had twice been “caught” comparing Republicans to Nazis. “Completely inappropriate and out of line,” the account righteously concluded—failing to disclose, among manyother things, that an actual, self-proclaimed Naziis the current GOP candidate in an Illinois congressional race. This is trolling—the GOP knows perfectly well that comparisons to Nazis are more than legitimate (Ted Cruz himself, hardly a moderate, urged Illinois voters to choose the Democrat over the GOP Nazi). It’s concern trolling.

The trouble is that this sensibility has infiltrated actual political entities to the point where they don’t even know where the sanctimony ends and the trolling begins. You could read Melania Trump’s jacket during her border visit (“I Really Don’t Care Do U?”) as, among other things, a shoutout to the ethos that put her husband in power—but, coupled with her staff’s denials, it seems just as likely that she wanted only to create messaging anarchy. That makes it hard to form a response; hell, it makes any conversation functionally impossible. When the GOP account tweeted that “Democrats’ calls to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement would mean abolishing America’s borders—and opening the floodgates to crime, drugs, and terrorism,” thousands of people mocked the party for getting this catastrophically wrong. (ICE has nothing to do with borders—that’s the job of Customs and Border Protection. And the “borders” would still exist without either.) But that’s because some still assume the GOP Twitter account wants to accurately inform its followers. It’s just as likely that whoever runs the GOP account knows perfectly well that ICE and CBP are distinct, but, like the president, prefers to disseminate misinformation to foment panic. Republicans who take the account seriously will repeat this as gospel. And those few Republicans who realize it’s wrong will chalk it up to an honest mistake.

Bizarre as this unlikely marriage between 4chan and Fox News has been, the result is undeniably fractious. These are very different approaches trying to become one, and while there’s still some “own the libs” energy, it feels more beleaguered than fun. It’s incredible, really: Trump supporters who sported “fuck your feelings” T-shirts and mocked their opponents for being “triggered” have developed schizoid Victorian sensibilities. They cheer Trump for calling the press “the enemy of the people” and peacefully protesting black football players “sons of bitches,” but they moan, almost in the same breath, that their friends won’t have them over or that they can’t get dates. They were interrupted at dinner! Smelling salts please!

It turns out the black-tie “DeploraBall” for Trump’s inauguration heralded a turn toward respectability (as much as can be automatically conferred by power) that exceeded what its planners intended. The event was supposed to reclaim the “deplorables” label and celebrate an ironic distance from liberal society’s petit bourgeois values—they didn’t care about being liked. But they got dressed up anyway and, before they knew it, were actually enjoying the feeling of being on the inside for once, with the screaming rabble locked out. That’s how it starts. You can only play dumb for so long.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 05:51:10 PM by Surly1 »
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Surly1

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Trumpís Feud With Europe Is Worse Than You Think
« Reply #1331 on: July 13, 2018, 02:09:44 AM »
Trumpís Feud With Europe Is Worse Than You Think

Donald Trump is pictured. | AP Photo

Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP Photo

WASHINGTON AND THE WORLD

Trump’s Feud With Europe Is Worse Than You Think

A three-week trip across the continent revealed a transatlantic relationship in tatters.

By ABRAHAM NEWMAN

If I learned one thing from my recent three-week visit to Europe, it’s that the transatlantic partnership is in serious trouble. And I’m not talking about what President Donald Trump said at the NATO summit Wednesday morning, calling Germany Russia’s puppet and criticizing other longtime allies for not shelling out enough on defense. I’m talking about a much less visible, but arguably more corrosive phenomenon: the breakdown in the relationship on a day-to-day, operational level.

Over and over again, at cafes, universities and government ministries, I kept hearing a similar refrain from government officials and academics: We have no idea what the United States wants, and we can’t trust its representatives—a collapse in communication and trust that has left the operational level of the transatlantic relationship paralyzed.As someone who has lived in and studied Europe for nearly two decades, hearing this was truly jarring. I fear that if the current state of affairs continues, U.S. national interests and power will be put at risk.

Don’t underestimate the importance of America’s day-to-day interactions with its allies overseas. More than vague words repeated by leaders in high-profile meetings, the transatlantic partnership is comprised of an unparalleled set of dense exchanges among bureaucrats and diplomats built over the past 70 years. These day-to-day working groups and dialogues seek to address many of the most pressing global problems—rogue states, terrorism, financial stability and environmental crises, to name a few. It is not by chance that these are also the same sets of issues confronting U.S. national interest. Thanks to global transportation, communication and trade, there are few areas where states can simply “go it alone.” But that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Given the economic and military might of the transatlantic space, partners working together can accomplish a lot.

This operational level requires seemingly mundane and painstaking engagement by a contingent of dedicated officials on both sides of the Atlantic. European officials have to constantly balance the demands of the U.S. with those of their own leadership, attempting to thread the needle to find a compromise. To reach these deals, European officials need a reliable and trustworthy U.S. partner.

But the friends, academics and government officials I met with told me the administration is undermining this work. Europeans bemoaned U.S. surrogates, who seemed cast right out a crime drama procedural, playing good cop-bad cop. One day, the European officials would find themselves talking to a rather sympathetic U.S. figure doing his or her best to justify or even apologize for the administration’s demands. The next day, the “cowboys,” as my European friends called them, would arrive, setting down ultimatums. Both positions would then be made irrelevant by a single presidential tweet.

One European official pointed to the public spat between U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnunchin, an advocate of free trade, and protectionist White House trade adviser Peter Navarro during trade negotiations held in China in May of this year. In the case of Iran sanctions, an issue Europeans watch closely, two different State Department officials gave conflicting statements as to U.S. policy regarding oil purchases within a week of each other. And then there was the recent confusion over U.S. troop presence in Europe. U.S. Ambassador to NATO Kay Bailey Hutchison repeatedly denied any interest in redeployment, while leaks revealed a Pentagon analysis into just such redeployment. Meanwhile, the U.S. ambassador to Germany has made a series of harsh demands of German companies, while the U.S. ambassador to Estonia has resigned in protest of the president’s statements on the EU and NATO.

Many of my European colleagues have been seriously distressed by this whiplash. They want to try and address the problems that they face in their policy space. But in many cases, they simply are not getting a clear and reliable signal on what the U.S. policy position is, making compromise nearly impossible.

But it is not just that Europeans do not know what the U.S. wants. They also told me they are increasingly skeptical of what Americans are telling them. U.S. intelligence and information has long been considered the gold standard, its detail and sophistication unparalleled. In areas from counterterrorism to corruption and financial regulation, the U.S. has used this advantage to press its policy objectives globally. For example, a U.S. official might approach a European counterpart with evidence of a crime committed by a European firm or citizen. In the past, European officials would typically trust U.S. intelligence and arguments. Increasingly, however, European officials are questioning their credibility. This skepticism started during the era of the Iraq War, when U.S. claims about weapons of mass destruction turned out to be unfounded. But information distortion practiced by the Trump administration has supercharged these doubts. In the past few months alone, Trump has made dubious assertions about the historical origins of the European Union, German crime statistics and the funding model of NATO—assertions that my European counterparts, who have access to their own data and history books, have not let go by so easily. I increasingly had conversations in which Europeans questioned the trustworthiness of their interlocutors as well as the credibility of the information they provided.

Europeans’ concerns are not just about the Trump administration’s unreliability or tone. I lived in Germany during the Iraq War, when Europeans bristled at U.S. unilateralism. I had to constantly confront the image of the ugly American, bullying the world. But back then, it was U.S. tactics that were up for debate—not U.S. values. Now, for the first time, I felt Europeans struggle with the idea that the U.S. might not just be a bully, but a threat. They worry that the administration is losing sight of basic values like democracy and rule of law—values that have long animated the transatlantic alliance.

In several exchanges, my European friends struggled to ask me whether or not I agreed with that assessment. I found many of my reassurances rung hollow. Conversations invariably turned to reports of children in cages at the U.S. border or Trump’s smiling handshakes with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un. When these friends tried to make sense of what might be motivating the administration’s policy (or lack thereof) in place of traditional U.S. values, they speculated about corporate interests, the “domestic base” or the mercurial nature of the president himself. As I sat in a bakery in Berlin, a colleague concluded that the only possible beneficiaries of U.S. policy were China and Russia.

Many I spoke with saw Europe facing one of two bad choices. A bleakly hopeful group is betting that Europe can put the operational level of the transatlantic relationship in hibernation for a few years and have it reawaken in a post-Trump world. They seemed resigned to the fact that many policy areas would simply sit frozen for the next two years. A second group, however, feared a much darker scenario in which the U.S. turns more aggressively against Europe. For them, a realignment in global politics is coming—and waiting is for suckers. I was deeply saddened to hear these people, whom I consider Atlanticists, consider decoupling from the U.S. militarily and possibly forging relationships with other states to balance against U.S. pressure. You could feel that they were crossing a mental Rubicon, opening up the possibility for the first time something that had been simply unthinkable before—that they may need to protect themselves from U.S. power.

The transatlantic partnership is not made up of any single commitment or set of funding requirements. It is made up of thousands of people on both sides of the Atlantic, working every day to bring prosperity and peace to each other. In the short term, the administration’s disregard for these relationships will make it harder for the U.S. to address its own policy priorities, from terrorism and migration to nonproliferation and financial stability. In the long term, it could set in motion a radical transformation in the international system. If the administration wants to avoid this, U.S. officials and diplomats need urgently to rebuild and recommit to the operational level of the partnership. Otherwise, they risk our own national interests.

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/donald-trump-uk-protests-today-london-trump-baby-balloon-2018-07-13-live-updates/

Huge protests in London as Donald Trump visits, meets Queen Elizabeth II


    LONDON -- Hordes of demonstrators converged in central London on Friday, intent on mocking U.S. President Donald Trump on his only full day of business with British leaders on what has been dubbed a "working visit" to the United Kingdom. The visual cornerstone of the anti-Trump protests on Friday -- which include several organized marches by varying groups -- is a giant balloon depicting the U.S. leader as an angry, screaming orange baby in a diaper, clutching a cell phone with Twitter on the screen.

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan, who has clashed for months on Twitter with Mr. Trump, had to give the final approval for "Trump baby" to fly. Mr. Trump has acknowledged that he feels unwelcome in the British capital, suggesting it was part of the reason he wasn't spending much time there during his U.K. visit.

    "Trump baby," as the balloon is known, will be flown high over Parliament Square in London, but Mr. Trump is spending the day miles away from the center of the British capital -- and the protesters -- in meetings with Prime Minster Theresa May and then later with Queen Elizabeth II.

    Tens of thousands are expected march through the streets of London to protest the American leader's visit to the U.K., his policies on issues ranging from immigration and race relations to women and climate change.
    Protests mock Trump during U.K. visit
    44 Photos
    Protests mock Trump during U.K. visit

    But as CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips reported, this is not the grand visit he was originally promised -- it is a much delayed, much diminished "working visit," most of it planned for outside of central London, where the protesters have prepared their own special welcome.

    Leo Murray, who calls himself "Trump baby's" daddy, told Phillips that the 20-foot-high protest balloon design was chosen deliberately because Mr. Trump, "is uniquely vulnerable to personal insults, so we just got right down at his level, to speak to him in a language that he understands."

    Murray, grandson of a former Labor Party parliamentarian, has a history of leading protests but says the balloon idea emerged one afternoon at a pub with friends.

    Mr. Trump declared on Thursday in Brussels that, "I think they like me a lot in the U.K."

    According to recent surveys by non-partisan British polling organization YouGov, only 11 percent of Britons said they thought Mr. Trump was a "great" or "good president." By contrast, 67 percent said they believed he was a "poor" or "terrible president."

    As Phillips says, on the whole, the U.S. leader may not get the reception in Britain that he had hoped for.
    Follow along for live updates on Friday's protests and President Trump's visit to Britain:
    Trump meets Queen Elizabeth II

    President Trump and first lady Melania are at Windsor Castle, east of London, this afternoon to meet Queen Elizabeth II. The president arrived on board his Marine One helicopter to the castle grounds just before 12 p.m. Eastern (5 p.m. British time).

    The British monarch was already waiting for him in a tent set up in a central courtyard or quadrangle at the ancient castle, in front of a formation of Cold Stream Guards, one of Britain's oldest Army units, who were to perform a "Trooping of the Color" ceremony for the heads of state.

    As CBS News correspondent Charlie D'Agata reported earlier today, Mr. Trump has expressed great admiration for the British monarch, and said both he and Melania were eager to meet her.

    The first couple were driven into the castle quadrangle in one of the royal family's Land Rovers, and then then stood on either side of the monarch with their hands on their chests as the U.S. National Anthem was belted out British military brass.

    Mr. Trump and the queen walked along a lineup of the Cold Stream Guards, "inspecting" the troops, before turning to head back to the shade of the the tent where Melania was waiting.

    The soldiers marched out of the quadrangle in tight formation, and then the fist couple and Queen Elizabeth into the confines of the castle -- where no cameras are allowed in, and as D'Agata reports, no information is allowed out; details of discussions with Britain's monarch are always strictly off the record.

    The Trumps are to have tea with the queen after the military ceremony, but they are not being treated to the full regalia and pageantry of an official state visit, usually including a formal banquet. That was the original invite extended by Prime Minister Theresa May just after Mr. Trump took office, but widespread public opposition to such an honor saw the trip downgraded to what has been dubbed a "working visit."

    Mr. Trump is the 11th sitting U.S. President that Queen Elizabeth II has met during her 66-year reign.
    Trafalgar Square: Protest Ground Zero

    Thousands of protesters have massed on London's iconic Trafalgar Square as a day of demonstrations against U.S. President Donald Trump's first official visit to the U.K. culminates. Organizers have claimed about 100,000 people showed up to protest Mr. Trump's visit, twice as many as were expected, but London's Metropolitan Police have not confirmed the crowd size.

    Even half that, 50,000, would be the biggest weekday protest in London's streets since demonstrations against the Iraq war in 2003.

    CBS News' Haley Joelle Ott says protest leaders are urging those already in Trafalgar Square to fill up empty spaces and make room for others who are on their way.

    Helicopters buzzed overhead as the crowds cheered speakers. A huge sign was draped over a wall on the steps up to London's National Gallery of art, which faces the square, reading "BUILD BRIDGES NOT WALLS."

    "It's nice to see so many people gathered for one cause," protester Rania Belarbi told CBS News. "We're all gathered for love, for equality, for togetherness, so that's a great message that we're sending out to the world."
    Pro-Trump protesters show up

    Tensions have flared as a small group of pro-Donald Trump demonstrators exchanged chants with anti-Trump protesters near London's Trafalgar Square.

    "We love Trump!" about 10 demonstrators chanted as police officers standing shoulder to shoulder kept the two opposing groups apart.

    The anti-Trump protesters, of whom there were dozens at the location, responded with chants of "Fascists go home!"

    So far Friday's demonstrations in London have remained peaceful, reports CBS News' Haley Joelle Ott.

    Tens of thousands are expected to gather later in Trafalgar Square for what is anticipated to be one of the largest protests since the marches in London against the Iraq War in 2003.
    Mini-Trump soars... low

    A smaller version of the no infamous "Trump baby" balloon, which London Mayor Sadiq Khan gave permission to fly over Parliament Square on Friday morning, made an appearance among the throngs of protesters later in the day.

    "We took some of the hot air out of bigger Donald, some of the narcissism, some of the fascism, and a little bit of the xenophobia," Barny Francis, one of the people holding the smaller balloon down with tether ropes told CBS News' Haley Ott as he marched. "We put it into this smaller version of him, Francis continued.

    "So he's still full of hot gas, it's just a little version of him now. This is mini-Donald," he said, adding that the larger balloon was on a "secret mission."

    Francis and his companions wore red jumpsuits an hats emblazoned with a slogan declaring them "Trump Babysitters."
    "Pro-America, anti-Donald Trump"

    "We are pro-America, anti-Donald Trump," Catherine Murgatroyd told CBS News as she marched in central London on Friday to protest President Trump's visit to Britain.

    Murgatroyd travelled from Portsmouth on England's south coast to London with her daughter to participate in the protests. She helped hold up one side of an oversized sign reading "UK REJECTS TRUMP!!" as she and thousands of others marched toward Parliament Square in the heart of the city.

    "We think it's important that the U.K. stand up against someone with a lack of morals like Donald Trump," Murgatroyd told CBS News' Haley Ott. She said she wanted to communicate to Mr. Trump, "that he's not welcome. That we don't tolerate people with a disregard for human rights."

    Thousands were converging in Parliament Square as a second protest march, expected to be the larger of the two on Friday, was heading toward Trafalgar Square to hold a rally later in the evening.
    Speaking with PM May

    President Trump is holding a joint news conference with British Prime Minister Teresa May in the middle of his trip to the United Kingdom. Mr. Trump's visit to Britain is sandwiched between the Brussels NATO summit, where he blasted allies over defense spending and trade, and ahead of his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki, Finland.

    The president and May met before the press conference at her country residence Chequers, and in a photo opportunity with reporters, Mr. Trump said that they had worked hard together at the NATO summit and declared that NATO has never been more united.

    The two leaders did not address his comments to the Sun newspaper, in which he blasted May's blueprint for Britain's exit from the European Union, during the photo op, though a pool reporter asked about the interview.

    "The relationship is very strong," Mr. Trump said. He also said they "probably never developed a better relationship than last night," during their dinner at Blenheim Palace, the birthplace of Winston Churchill.
    Trump and the queen

    President Trump and first lady Melania Trump will sit down later Friday with Queen Elizabeth II for their first official visit with the monarch. She has met nearly every one of the last 12 U.S. presidents.

    Mr. Trump has said he is looking forward to meeting the queen, whom he described as an "incredible woman," at Windsor Castle.

    CBS News correspondent Charlie D'Agata says that while Her Majesty the queen and the current U.S. president may have very different personalities, royal biographer Robert Hardman doesn't see any problems ahead for their encounter.

    "They actually have quite a lot in common. They've both got Scottish mothers, they both own fairly large parts of Scotland -- in her case Balmoral, in his case two golf courses -- and she's used to dealing with the most appalling despots, monsters, crooks, dictators," Hardman said. "I think they're going to get on great."

    Stick with CBSNews.com and CBSN for live coverage of the Trumps' visit with the queen from about noon Eastern.
    Michael Avenatti joins anti-Trump protest

    Michael Avenatti, the attorney for porn actress and presidential antagonist Stephanie Clifford, or Stormy Daniels as she is more commonly known, was in London on Friday to participate in the Women's March protesting Mr. Trump's visit to the U.K.

    "I think the president's visit is like a lot of things the president does; It's insufficient," Avenatti told CBS News' Haley Joelle Ott on the noisy streets of central London. "He's trying to avoid the protests because he wants to bury his head in the sand and doesn't want to look at what's really going on and face the facts," he said."At some point this president needs to step up or step out," Avenatti asserted.

    "I think that this march in particular deals with a lot of the issues that we talk about in Stormy's case, and I think it deals significantly with the issues that I'm dealing with day in and day out, as it relates to some of these mothers who have been separated from their children from the southern border of the United States... The bottom line is these families need to be reunited yesterday."
    "To say someone resisted"

    Hundreds of protesters gathered outside Portland Place in central London on Friday morning ahead of the first of two large protests planned in the capital, where tens of thousands are expected to demonstrate against President Trump's first visit to the United Kingdom as U.S. leader.

    CBS News correspondent Elizabeth Palmer says as many as 50,000 protesters were expected to take to London's streets on Friday, which would make it the biggest weekday demonstration in the British capital in 15 years.

    "We just wanted to really highlight the fact that many citizens are not happy with the divisive rhetoric that has been coming out of the Trump-Pence administration," protest organizer Huda Jawad told CBS News's Haley Joelle Ott.

    "I'm a woman. I'm a woman of color. I came to this country as a refugee... I also have two boys," she said. "They're growing up in an increasingly uncomfortable, unsafe world and environment, and I wanted to do this for them."

    After Mr. Trump derided London's Muslim Mayor Sadiq Khan as being soft on terrorism, among other things, in an interview published Thursday with the Sun newspaper, Jawad said she was also determined to demonstrate against, "these policies, the rhetoric of racism, misogyny, caging children, regressing in terms of gender rights and human rights, the appalling way in which the environment is being treated by the administration."

    Her aim in protesting, she told CBS News, was "to say someone resisted, and not on our watch."
    "Very good relationship"

    Speaking Friday next to British Prime Minister Theresa May at her official country residence outside of London, President Donald Trump insisted the two had bonded more than ever before over dinner the previous evening. He lauded the U.S.-U.K. relationship as "very, very strong. We really have a very good relationship."

    His remarks came about 12 hours after British tabloid the Sun published an interview with the U.S. leader in which he lambasted her plan for a "soft" exit from the European Union, saying Mrs. May's Brexit blueprint would "probably kill" hopes of a bilateral trade deal going forward. He also lauded May's top political rival, Boris Johnson, whom he said would make a good prime minister.

    Both the White House and Prime Minster May's office have been at pains since Mr. Trump's harsh rhetoric emerged to stress that relations remain cordial.

    "The prime minister has a good relationship with the president," May's spokeswoman said on Friday.

    May and Mr. Trump shook hands and spoke briefly to reporters Friday morning at Chequers before going behind closed doors for meetings that Mr. Trump said would focus on trade, military cooperation and events in the Middle East.

    Mr. Trump said, in spite of the Sun interview emerging as they sat down together for a formal dinner on Thursday night, that he and May had bonded like never before over the course of the meal.
    Heading out of London
    Donald Trump visit to UK

    A "Baby Trump" balloon rises after being inflated in London's Parliament Square, as part of the protests against the visit of President Donald Trump to the U.K., July 13, 2018.
    AP

    As the "Trump baby" balloon slowly took flight on Friday morning, climbing at first just several yards off the ground, President Trump left the U.S. ambassador's mansion in London with first lady Melania Trump to visit the renowned Sandhurst Military Academy, south of the city. Melania diverged after their departure and instead of Sandhurst, went to meet British veterans at the Royal Chelsea Hospital and residence in central London dedicated to them.

    After observing a joint counter-terrorism exercise there with Prime Minister Theresa May, Mr. Trump is to hold afternoon meetings with May -- guaranteed to be tense after the publication of an interview in which Mr. Trump ridiculed May's plans for Brexit and lauded her political rival Boris Johnson -- at the PM's official rural residence, Chequers.

    CBS News partner network BBC News reported Friday morning that British government ministers were on damage control following the release of Mr. Trump's interview with the Sun tabloid, with many suggesting they looked forward to further explaining the government's stance on exiting the European Union.

    Chancellor of the Exchequer Phillip Hammond, Britain's chief banker and a member of May's cabinet, told the BBC on Friday that Mr. Trump probably "hasn't yet had a chance" to study the detail of the proposed Brexit plan from May, and that she looked forward to explaining it in their meetings.

    Sam Gyimah, a junior member of government and Mrs. May's own Conservative Party, was less reserved, however, asking succinctly in a tweet on Friday, "Where are your manners, Mr. President?"
SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN

Offline Surly1

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Re: Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #1333 on: July 13, 2018, 02:18:33 PM »
I heard Queen Elizabeth cancelled her meeting with 45.

Heel spurs.

Queen Elizabeth Says Bone Spurs Will Prevent Her from Meeting Trump

By

July 12, 2018

Photograph by Mark Runnacles / Getty

LONDON (The Borowitz Report)—Queen Elizabeth II has cancelled a scheduled Friday meeting with Donald J. Trump after complaining of a “flare-up of bone spurs,” Buckingham Palace has confirmed.

The announcement took many royal watchers by surprise, because in her sixty-six-year reign the Queen had never before complained of bone spurs.

But, according to the Queen’s spokesman, Peter Rhys-Willington, Elizabeth had intentionally kept her chronic bone-spur condition a closely guarded secret until now. “Her Majesty is a very brave woman, and has not wanted to unnecessarily worry her subjects,” Rhys-Willington said. “And so, for decades, she has suffered in silence.”

The Queen referred to her bone spurs obliquely in an official statement issued on Thursday. “We are sorry to have to cancel the engagement, but we feared that meeting Donald Trump would be most painful,” the Queen’s statement read.

  • Andy Borowitz is the New YorkTimesbest-selling author of “The 50 Funniest American Writers,” and a comedian who has written forThe New Yorkersince 1998. He writes theBorowitz Report, a satirical column on the news, for newyorker.com.

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

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"Waaaa-aaaah!
« Reply #1334 on: July 13, 2018, 07:25:49 PM »
Trump says the 20-foot-tall angry-baby blimp flying in London makes him feel 'unwelcome'




A rendering of the 20-foot-tall "Trump Baby" blimp.
The balloon won't be allowed to fly this high over the city – but it will be large.
  • London Mayor Sadiq Khan permitted a 20-foot-tall angry "Trump Baby" blimp depicting President Donald Trump to be flown during his visit to the UK this week.
  • Trump told The Sun it made him feel "unwelcome."
  • Trump also said he would steer clear of the protests in London, which The Sun said could attract up to 200,000 people.

President Donald Trump said he felt "unwelcome" in London after its mayor, Sadiq Khan, permitted a 20-foot-tall angry "Trump Baby" blimp depicting him to be flown during his visit to the UK this week.

"I guess when they put out blimps to make me feel unwelcome, no reason for me to go to London," Trump said in an interview with The Sun.

Khan has described the blimp as a "peaceful protest."

Trump said he would try to avoid the crowd in the capital during his four-day visit to the country.

"I used to love London as a city," Trump told The Sun. "I haven't been there in a long time. But when they make you feel unwelcome, why would I stay there?"

An activist group was given permission to fly the blimp over London during Trump's visit, which The Sun said could attract up to 200,000 protesters. The group launched a crowdfunding campaign for the project and has since raised over $40,400.

"Donald Trump is a big, angry baby with a fragile ego and tiny hands," the group's crowdfunding page says. "He's also racist demagogue who is a danger to women, immigrants and minorities and a mortal threat to world peace and the very future of life on earth.

"Moral outrage is water off a duck's back to Trump," the page continues. "But he really seems to hate it when people make fun of him."

Trump's visit has spurred other activists to create political displays. One artist carved "F--- Trump" into a crop circle that was reportedly visible on Trump's flight path to British Prime Minister Theresa May's country estate.


"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

 

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