AuthorTopic: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread  (Read 11543 times)

Offline AJ

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #105 on: January 12, 2019, 05:15:02 AM »
 :emthup: :emthup: :emthup: :emthup:
I want to thank everybody who has contributed to this thread.
I came upon McPherson about 6 or 7 years ago and read everything he wrote. He scared the shit out of me. It was partially what motivated me to get out of the Bay Area (SF) for the rural countryside of Oregon (should have gone further north). Some time later I was able to "get over" McPherson by reading some of the sites that debunk him as a cherry picker ;). I was all into collapse by this time, be it climate, economic, nuke, etc (chose your poison).
However, my anxiety increased exponentially having recently come across Paul Beckwith (who seems more scientifically rigorous than McPherson). After reading Actic News and seeing more and more scientist/educators (David Suzuki, David Attenborough, etc.) start mentioning near term human extinction it seems that McPherson might not be totally wrong. IMHO one of humanities greatest faults is hubris. Thinking you understand something (like McPherson) which I'm not sure I did/do. Since I believe everybody on this site subscribes to Plato's motto - An unexamined life is not worth living, I try to get beyond my hubris and reexamine decisions and beliefs I though were settled. LIKE NTHE. I don't want to think it may happen but now I think it's within the realm of possibilities. As someone who knows little :o I love all the input from you all.
Thanks again for any corrections to my misguided analyses.
AJ   
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #106 on: January 12, 2019, 07:32:44 AM »

It's the disruption of agriculture that causes the problem. Humans can adapt to temperature extremes. We do live in a biosphere, however, that contains a whole lot of other life forms, and we are very co-dependent and we live in symbiosis.

The methane is already being released. Absolutely nobody can really tell us what is going to happen. We are in uncharted territory. I seriously doubt, however, that we'll all be boiled alive one day, or that we'll all go the same year even.

This doesn't mean there isn't a bad problem. It just means that the map (modeling) is not the territory (reality).

Truth, IMO.

I remember some years ago watching videos of formerly frozen methane melting and bubbling up from arctic seeps as a result of AGW. Since then we have seen plenty of evidence of long sequestered methane exploding into the atmosphere.

As I write this I think of the horrific wildfires in Alberta a couple of years ago. Not a stretch to think that such explosive fires (and those in California) are a snapshot of our near-term future, and far more likely than near-term Venusification.

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2019, 11:58:43 PM »
Article and link:
http://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/

JOW


A study shows an increase of permafrost temperature at a global scale
Permafrost melting causes the release of carbon dioxide and methanePermafrost melting causes the release of carbon dioxide and methane, with its consequences, which speed up global warming

UNIVERSITY OF BARCELONA

Eurekalert,
17 January, 2019

Permafrost, the ground below the freezing point of water 0 º for two or more years, is an element of the cryosphere which has not been as much studied as other soils like glaciers or marine ice, although it plays an important role in the climate evolution of the planet and in several human activities. Now, for the first time, a review of the state of permafrost on Earth has been carried out thanks to the data analysis of more than 120 drillings distributed around the Arctic and the Antarctica, as well as in mountains and high plains worldwide.

The study, titled "Permafrost is warming at a global scale" has been published in the journal Nature Communications, and is led by the researcher Boris Biskaborn, from the Alfred Wegener Institute for Polar and Marine Research (Germany). Among the collaborators of the study is Marc Oliva, coordinator of the Research Group Antarctic, Arctic and Alpine Environments (ANTALP), from the University of Barcelona

The analysed data were stored in the Global Terrestrial Network for Permafrost, an international initiative promoting the homogenization of data gathering on permafrost monitoring. The obtained data from 2007 to 2016 show that soil temperatures of continuous permafrost raised by 12,39 ± 12,15 °C, while discontinuous permafrost warmed by 12,20 ± 12,10 °C. In high mountains, the permanent frozen soil temperature rose by 12,19 ± 12,05 °C and the few existing holes in the Antarctica show a rise of temperatures of the order 12,37 ± 12,10 °C. The temperature of the terrestrial permafrost is estimated to have increased by 12,29 ± 12,12 ° C.

The presence or absence of permafrost in the ground conditions the ecosystems of many areas located in high mountains and latitudes. Permafrost melting causes the release of carbon dioxide and methane, with its consequences, which speed up global warming. Also, this melting can cause the collapse of buildings that have built on it. It should be borne in mind, for instance, that more than 60 % of Russian territory is placed on permafrost areas, like a part of the terrestrial area in the Northern hemisphere. Therefore, this temperature rise of the frozen ground can have social and economic consequences at a local and regional scale, losing equipment, damaging infrastructures, eroding the coast, etc., apart from other implications for the global climate.

The published study in Nature Communications is connected to another study led by researcher Marc Oliva which shows that, due the rise of heat over the last decades, permafrost is only kept in the highest mountain areas in the Mediterranean basin, such as some areas in the Pyrenees, Southern Alps, the Apennines, and the Anatolia mountains, apart from some isolated areas in the Picos de Europa, Sierra Nevada, Atlas mountains and the Balkans. In Catalonia, there is only permafrost in the mountains of Besiberri, and all areas show signs of degradation, which makes it possible for it to disappear during the next decades.

This study was published in Earth-Science Reviews and gathers twenty experts from different areas of the Mediterranean area. For the first time, the conditions of permafrost in southern Europe mountain areas for the last 20,000 years have been reconstructed. The study analyses the evolution of permafrost going from the last glaciation to current date, in a geographical area ranging from the Iberian Peninsula to the Anatolian one, including the north of Africa and the Mediterranean islands. Its conclusion states that, since the last glaciation, the areas that were occupied by permafrost in the Mediterranean mountains have diminished gradually and only some mountains have recovered permafrost during the coldest phases, such as the Little Ice Age (1300-1800 AC). Since then, global warming made permafrost to be found only in the highest areas of Mediterranean mountains.

Over the next years, the members of the ANTALP research group will work on the study of cold processes in the Catalan Pyrenees, where some permafrost remains, although its distribution and expansion is still not widely known. Also, in the International Permafrost Association (IPA) meeting with the Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research (SCAR), Marc Oliva was appointed Spanish representative and co-president of the initiative Antarctic Permafrost, Periglacial Environments and Soil (ANTPAS). The UB researcher notes "everything has to contribute to and promote the study of cold ecosystems in Catalonia, and make the University of Barcelona a model institution in this topic in Southern Europe".

Offline AJ

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #108 on: January 25, 2019, 05:39:11 AM »
Just posted on the Arctic News website:
FRIDAY, JANUARY 25, 2019
Accelerating growth of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere
People may not have thought that growth in carbon dioxide (CO₂) levels in the atmosphere would accelerate, when pledges were made in 2015 at the Paris Agreement to take efforts to keep the temperature rise under 1.5°C compared to preindustrial.

Yet, on January 21, 2019, hourly average CO₂ levels well above 414 ppm were recorded at Mauna Loa, Hawaii, the highest levels since such measurements started. A daily average level of 413.86 ppm was recorded on January 22, 2019.


A recent Met Office forecast expects monthly averages to reach a level of 414.7 ppm in May 2019. The forecast expects annual average CO₂ levels at Mauna Loa to be 2.75 ppm higher in 2019 than in 2018. That figure is virtually on the trendline depicted below.



The trend in above image is calculated with NOAA 1959-2017 growth data, with an estimate for 2018 calculated by Sam Carana with NOAA January 2017-November 2018 data (orange dot), and with this Met Office forecast used for 2019 (purple dot).

Strong CO₂ growth is forecast for 2019, due to a number of factors including rising emissions, the added impact of El Niño and less uptake of carbon dioxide by ecosystems. A recent study warns that global warming will enhance both the amplitude and the frequency of eastern Pacific El Niño events and associated extreme weather events. Another recent study warns that, while the terrestrial biosphere now absorbs some 25% of CO₂ emissions by people, the rate of land carbon uptake is likely to fall with reduced soil moisture levels in a warmer world. Furthermore, forest fires will increase as temperatures rise, as soils get more dry and as winds increase in strength, resulting in further increases of CO₂ emissions.

The warming impact of CO₂ can be expected to increase over the next ten years, the more so since the warming impact of CO₂ reaches a peak ten years after emission. In conclusion, CO₂ can cause a global temperature rise of 0.5°C over the next ten years.

Ocean Heat

La Niña has kept much heat in oceans in 2018. Not surprisingly, 2018 was the hottest year for our oceans since global records began in 1958.

As an indication how much heat is contained in the North Atlantic, very high sea surface temperatures did show up recently off the coast of North America, with anomalies on January 23, 2019, as high as 12.6°C or 22.6°F (compared to 1981-2011, green circle on the image on the right).

The Gulf Stream carries ocean heat to the Arctic Ocean and it can take a couple of months for this heat to reach the Arctic Ocean and contribute to melting of the sea ice.

So, Arctic sea ice is expected to be invaded by ocean heat from below in 2019, while El Niño will cause high temperatures over the Arctic, melting the sea ice from above.

As the temperature difference between the North Pole and the Equator narrows, the jet streams become wavier, allowing more heat to enter the Arctic. Furthermore, rivers that end in North America and Siberia can be expected to carry much warm water into the Arctic Ocean. With sea ice at a low, it won't be able to act as a buffer to absorb heat for long.


The Buffer has gone, feedback #14 on the Feedbacks page
Joint impact

The joint impact of all this is terrifying. Ocean heat may reach sediments at the seafloor of the Arctic Ocean and destabilize hydrates, resulting in eruptions of huge amounts of methane. This alone can cause a global temperature rise of 1.1°C in a matter of years.

A lot of this has not been accounted for by the IPCC, i.e. the recent increases in CO₂ emissions, increases in methane releases, increases in further emissions such as nitrous oxide and black carbon, albedo changes due to decline in the snow and ice cover and associated changes such as jet stream changes, more permafrost melting and stronger impacts of future El Niño events.

The image on the right shows the joint impact of the warming elements that threaten to eventuate over the next few years and that could result in a rapid 10°C or 18°F global temperature rise by 2026 or even earlier. Keep in mind that global biodiversity will have collapsed once temperatures have risen by 5°C.

The situation is dire and calls for comprehensive and effective action, as described at the Climate Plan.


Links

• Faster CO₂ rise expected in 2019
[url=https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/2019/2019-carbondioxide-forecast]https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/2019/2019-carbondioxide-forecast[/url]

• Increased variability of eastern Pacific El Niño under greenhouse warming, by Wenju Cai et al.
[url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0776-9]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0776-9[/url]

• El Niño events will intensify under global warming, by Yoo-Geun Hamhttps://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07638-w

• Large influence of soil moisture on long-term terrestrial carbon uptake, by Julia Green et al.
[url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0848-x]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0848-x[/url]

• 2018 Continues Record Global Ocean Warming, by Lijing Cheng et al.
[url=https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00376-019-8276-x]https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00376-019-8276-x[/url]

• Co-extinctions annihilate planetary life during extreme environmental change, by Giovanni Strona and Corey Bradshaw
[url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35068-1]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35068-1[/url]

• Climate Plan
[url=https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/climateplan.html]https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/climateplan.html[/url]

• Extinction
[url=https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/extinction.html]https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/extinction.html[/url]




Posted by Sam Carana at 4:42 AM

Just more bad news. Only a few years left.
AJ
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Offline AJ

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2019, 03:34:54 PM »
This is research that tends to back-up McPherson and Paul Beckwith. Although McPherson throws in an earlier (this coming summer) collapse of agriculture and civilization leading to a loss of global dimming (due to the pollutants we are currently putting up) leading to a rapid rise of 2oC in temp in weeks (again this summer).
I spent some time reading articles on the website that you listed. Profoundly depressing. In line with McPherson. There was a suggestion that we are headed to a runaway greenhouse scenario like Venus. If it gets hot enough you start evaporating vast amounts of ocean water. Water vapor is a strong greenhouse agent in its own right. Given enough temp and time you evaporate all the oceans and have Venus.
Truly scary stuff. Maybe time to order that end of the world box of cigars.

Thanks,
AJ

here is an explanation of Mcphersons theory the dimming effect and loss.

"When fossil fuels are burned they release CO2 that collects in our atmosphere. It also produces aerosol particulates as well. Those particles create a shield for the rays of the sun, while the planet keeps warming. If we stop using fossil fuels, the shields of aerosol particulates would fall to earth within about 6 weeks. As little as 35% reduction in industrial activity causes 1% Celsius temperature rise. "

That is sneaky.  But let us do a basic experiment and let horse science and common sense deal with Mr. McPherson.



First we must hold CO2 constant in the experiment.  All that stops is the release of aerosols which dissipate in 6 weeks. 

Q:  Where does the 1% increase come from?

A:  An increase of solar radiation reaching the ground has to increase.  For a degree of warming there has to be so much particulate matter in the atmosphere every amateur astronomer in America would be quantifying it were there a grain of truth.  They are not.  People would be ranting about the 1% increase of power they get from solar because it is on a mountain.  They are not.

That was the common sense part.  All sorts of science experiments would be quantifying particulate matter effects if they were as significant as McPherson contends.  Kids would be sending up Raspberry Pis with light sensors on balloons to measure it.  Facts, significant facts would have leaked into social consciousness and not via McPherson.

McPherson sells snake oil.

Common Sense.  So ask yourself why he does it.

The answer is it's what cult figures do.
Coming back at you K-Dog.
Seems that the research is backing up McPherson more and more (meaning this shit is getting dire).



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190122104611.htm
ScienceDaily
Your source for the latest research news
We need to rethink everything we know about global warming
New calculations show scientists have grossly underestimated the effects of air pollution
Date:
January 22, 2019
Source:
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Summary:
New research shows that the degree to which aerosols cool the earth has been grossly underestimated, necessitating a recalculation of climate change models to more accurately predict the pace of global warming.
Share:
     
FULL STORY

Air pollution.
Credit: © darksoul72 / Fotolia
For a while now, the scientific community has known that global warming is caused by humanmade emissions in the form of greenhouse gases and global cooling by air pollution in the form of aerosols.

However, new research published in Science by Hebrew University of Jerusalem Professor Daniel Rosenfeld shows that the degree to which aerosols cool the earth has been grossly underestimated, necessitating a recalculation of climate change models to more accurately predict the pace of global warming.

Aerosols are tiny particles that float in the air. They can form naturally (e.g., desert dust) or artificially (e.g., smoke from coal, car exhaust). Aerosols cool our environment by enhancing cloud cover that reflect the sunlight (heat) back to space.

As for the first, clouds form when wind rises and cools. However, cloud composition is largely determined by aerosols. The more aerosol particles a shallow cloud contains, the more small water droplets it will hold. Rain happens when these droplets bind together. Since it takes longer for small droplets to bind together than it does for large droplets, aerosol-filled or "polluted" clouds contain more water, live in the sky longer (while they wait for droplets to bind and rain to fall, after which the clouds will dissipate) and cover a greater area. All the while, the aerosol-laden clouds reflect more solar energy back into space, thereby cooling the Earth's overall temperature.

To what extent do aerosols cool down our environment? To date, all estimates were unreliable because it was impossible to separate the effects of rising winds which create the clouds, from the effects of aerosols which determine their composition. Until now.

Rosenfeld and his colleague Yannian Zhu from the Meteorological Institute of Shaanxi Province in China developed a new method that uses satellite images to separately calculate the effect of vertical winds and aerosol cloud droplet numbers. They applied this methodology to low-lying cloud cover above the world's oceans between the Equator and 40S. With this new method, Rosenfeld and his colleagues were able to more accurately calculate aerosols' cooling effects on the Earth's energy budget. And, they discovered that aerosols' cooling effect is nearly twice higher than previously thought.

However, if this is true then how come the earth is getting warmer, not cooler? For all of the global attention on climate warming, aerosol pollution rates from vehicles, agriculture and power plants is still very high. For Rosenfeld, this discrepancy might point to an ever deeper and more troubling reality. "If the aerosols indeed cause a greater cooling effect than previously estimated, then the warming effect of the greenhouse gases has also been larger than we thought, enabling greenhouse gas emissions to overcome the cooling effect of aerosols and points to a greater amount of global warming than we previously thought," he shared.

The fact that our planet is getting warmer even though aerosols are cooling it down at higher rates than previously thought brings us to a Catch-22 situation: Global efforts to improve air quality by developing cleaner fuels and burning less coal could end up harming our planet by reducing the number of aerosols in the atmosphere, and by doing so, diminishing aerosols' cooling ability to offset global warming.

According to Rosenfeld, another hypothesis to explain why Earth is getting warmer even though aerosols have been cooling it down at an even a greater rate is a possible warming effect of aerosols when they lodge in deep clouds, meaning those 10 kilometers or more above the Earth. Israel's Space Agency and France's National Centre for Space Studies (CNES) have teamed up to develop new satellites that will be able to investigate this deep cloud phenomenon, with Professor Rosenfeld as its principal investigator.

Either way, the conclusion is the same. Our current global climate predictions do not correctly take into account the significant effects of aerosols on clouds on Earth's overall energy balance. Further, Rosenfeld's recalculations mean fellow scientists will have to rethink their global warming predictions -- which currently predict a 1.5 to 4.5-degree Celsius temperature increase by the end of the 21st century -- to provide us a more accurate diagnosis -- and prognosis -- of the Earth's climate.

Story Source:

Materials provided by The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Note: Content may be edited for style and length.

Journal Reference:

Daniel Rosenfeld, Yannian Zhu, Minghuai Wang, Youtong Zheng, Tom Goren, Shaocai Yu. Aerosol-driven droplet concentrations dominate coverage and water of oceanic low level clouds. Science, 2019; eaav0566 DOI: 10.1126/science.aav0566
Cite This Page:
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The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. "We need to rethink everything we know about global warming: New calculations show scientists have grossly underestimated the effects of air pollution." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 22 January 2019. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190122104611.htm>.

Even if McPherson's followers could be described as a cult doesn't necessarily mean the per review science he bases his forecasts on are any less credible. I read his books 5 years ago and dismissed what he said based on his "cherry picking" the science then. However, the SCIENCE being published now is more and more supporting his forecasts (maybe not 18 months to extinction but sooner than you or I would want).
AJ
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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #110 on: January 25, 2019, 09:29:04 PM »
This is one study and what they found out is not clear at all.  I cannot except the claim :

Quote
To date, all estimates were unreliable because it was impossible to separate the effects of rising winds which create the clouds, from the effects of aerosols which determine their composition.

We happen to live in the 21st century and we have a military which has been very interested in the meteorological sciences for a century.  The science in the statement I quoted smells as bad as a rotting fish and the whole article depends on accepting bullshit.  Laser light can cause aerosol particles to scintillate so they can be detected and I bet they can even be quantified in size as well as concentration and chemical composition.  More than half a century ago cloud formation was studied and I can't believe progress was not made in the further study of clouds until now.

K-Dog            : 1
McPherson   : 0 (not really fair since he's not playing)

For your part you haven't asked yourself what this really means.

Quote
aerosols' cooling effect is nearly twice higher than previously thought.

Since aerosols disappear from the atmosphere when clouds rain their contribution to global warming would make a plume of cooling downwind of cities which would be easily detected by modern methods.  Where is that evidence?  Twice nothing is nothing.

It gets very dicey talking about global warming phenomena when the discussion involves cloud cover because cloud cover is a complicated phenomena with interactions.  Global warming itself may cause an increase in clouds which can in different circumstances cool or warm.

More significantly this is an example of an existential paradox.  Aerosol emission can't go to zero in any scenario unless people are all dead in which case why worry and then you still have natural aerosols if there were people around to worry.  I'm not being flip.  It really can't go to zero and death by aerosol starvation is an impossibility.  People burn wood. 

This really is an existential fallacy. The concentration of aerosols is nowhere quantified in your article and the snippet you present stinks of invalid reasonings.  A little dog and pony show simplified cloud formation and throws in speculation man-made aerosols dramatically affecting cloud cover based on the article trying to make you picture a you-tube video worth of cartoon drawings in your head.  Speculation is not science and there is no bigfoot.  When it comes to cloud formation the process is not all one way or another as the article would have you believe.



The aerosols made it rain not me.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 09:41:39 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #111 on: January 25, 2019, 09:38:33 PM »
I've come to the conclusion that extremists give doom a bad name.  We should be beacons of reason.

Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline AJ

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #112 on: January 26, 2019, 05:12:16 AM »
I've come to the conclusion that extremists give doom a bad name.  We should be beacons of reason.


Sad to say the actual Science article is behind a paywall so any quantification or data is unknown to us. Science Daily isn't the journal Science so criticism is off base since they are only a headline grabber (however they provided a link to the Science article).
Much study has been done on clouds and cloud formation. The question of whether the increase in clouds due to global warming would mitigate some of that warming due to the increased albedo of those clouds (that was the argument) has recently been answered. It doesn't, increase in cloud cover (water vapor - is the biggest greenhouse gas) actually increases warming.
Also, your argument that there's no way to reduce aerosols to zero because humans will always burn wood is a perfect straw man argument. We're not talking about a few hunter/gatherers burning fires or 1750 ag civilization. We are talking about full blown industrial civilization. Any rain currently occuring is not pulling the aerosols out of the atmosphere faster than we are putting them in. Any rainstorm has merely transitory effects and has probably no effect on the cooling aerosols are providing.
I just figure you don't like McPherson because he is an alarmist (and maybe a cult leader ;)), but there are more and more Climate scientists who say we should be alarmed and extinction might be just around the corner. I don't personally like that message but it might be true.
AJ
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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #113 on: January 26, 2019, 06:02:02 AM »
extinction might be just around the corner.

Extinction is ALWAYS "just around the corner".  It's the next big asteroid on a long elliptical path around the SUN☼ we don't know about yet.  But it can and will come sometime, there is no avoiding it.

Do you live your life worrying about when the next Planet Killer Asteroid will collide with the Earth?  No, you don't, not if you are fairly "normal" anyhow.

Unlike big fucking Asteroids there is about nothing you can do to prepare for, you CAN prepare for Climate Change.  So what is your choice here?  Do you just throw up your hands and say "It's HOPELESS!  We are all DOOMED!"  That is what Dr. McStinksion says.  Are you in that camp, or are you a Prepper who will at least TRY to make it through the Zero Point?

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« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 06:04:17 AM by RE »
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Offline knarf

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #114 on: January 26, 2019, 06:54:57 AM »
Guy is extreme, that's all. Everyone views this subject differently.

No, it's not all.  In case you do not remember or never caught, I Admined and Hosted his website NBL for about 2 years when he was getting a shitload of problems with SPAMMERS:emthdown:  I also know some of the other Doomer Bloggers who have had dealings with Dr. McStinksion.  I am not speaking from a vacuum here.  The man is a menace, THAT is all she wrote.  Enuf said here for now on this topic.

RE
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 07:14:43 AM by RE »
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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2019, 07:24:23 AM »
Unfortunately, I hit the wrong button on this one.  Apologies to Knarf.  My post got conflated with yours.  Here is my response to your message:

Guy is extreme, that's all. Everyone views this subject differently.

No, it's not all.  In case you do not remember or never caught, I Admined and Hosted his website NBL for about 2 years when he was getting a shitload of problems with SPAMMERS:emthdown:  I also know some of the other Doomer Bloggers who have had dealings with Dr. McStinksion.  I am not speaking from a vacuum here.  The man is a menace, THAT is all she wrote.  Enuf said here for now on this topic.

RE
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Offline knarf

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2019, 07:55:26 AM »
Guy is extreme, that's all. Everyone views this subject differently.

No, it's not all.  In case you do not remember or never caught, I Admined and Hosted his website NBL for about 2 years when he was getting a shitload of problems with SPAMMERS:emthdown:  I also know some of the other Doomer Bloggers who have had dealings with Dr. McStinksion.  I am not speaking from a vacuum here.  The man is a menace, THAT is all she wrote.  Enuf said here for now on this topic.

RE

RE, you wrote this and it is addressed to me "Knarf" as the poster.?
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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2019, 08:09:34 AM »
Guy is extreme, that's all. Everyone views this subject differently.

No, it's not all.  In case you do not remember or never caught, I Admined and Hosted his website NBL for about 2 years when he was getting a shitload of problems with SPAMMERS:emthdown:  I also know some of the other Doomer Bloggers who have had dealings with Dr. McStinksion.  I am not speaking from a vacuum here.  The man is a menace, THAT is all she wrote.  Enuf said here for now on this topic.

RE

RE, you wrote this and it is addressed to me "Knarf" as the poster.?

What happened here is that instead of punching the "quote" button, I accidentally punched the "modify" button" which appears on my Admin screen.  So when I keyboarded my post, it came out the other end with yourr Screen ID on it.  I will delete that post and if you like (and please do!) rewrite your original post, which I cannot retrieve.  It wasn't a long one, but had important thoughts in it.  I am very sorry Knarf.  This is the first time I ever made an irretrievable mistake like this in 7 years Admining the Diner.  I blew this one big time.

RE
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 08:13:26 AM by RE »
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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2019, 08:34:44 AM »
Guy is extreme, that's all. Everyone views this subject differently.

No, it's not all.  In case you do not remember or never caught, I Admined and Hosted his website NBL for about 2 years when he was getting a shitload of problems with SPAMMERS:emthdown:  I also know some of the other Doomer Bloggers who have had dealings with Dr. McStinksion.  I am not speaking from a vacuum here.  The man is a menace, THAT is all she wrote.  Enuf said here for now on this topic.

RE

RE, you wrote this and it is addressed to me "Knarf" as the poster.?

What happened here is that instead of punching the "quote" button, I accidentally punched the "modify" button" which appears on my Admin screen.  So when I keyboarded my post, it came out the other end with yourr Screen ID on it.  I will delete that post and if you like (and please do!) rewrite your original post, which I cannot retrieve.  It wasn't a long one, but had important thoughts in it.  I am very sorry Knarf.  This is the first time I ever made an irretrievable mistake like this in 7 years Admining the Diner.  I blew this one big time.

RE

Sort of like I did yesterday too. 

To be clear on where I stand on McPherson.  Once I thought his position would stimulate people to think and among a certain crowd of doomers he probably does.  For everyone else he is a disaster and that is my current position.

The bar one learns as one begins the process of enriching themselves and earning a point of view apart from the common herd is low.  Very low, and few people are stimulated to think by McPherson. 

People take his bull seriously or ignore him.  The ones who take him seriously are depressed basket cases and those who ignore him are pushed even deeper in denial of doom than they were before they heard his message.  Doom as it is commonly presented pushes people away.  There is nothing in a 'we are all going to die' message that can cause positive change.  It alienates people.

Bottom line is when it comes to math McPherson is as dumb as a board.  I doubt he could tell you what the difference is between positive or negative feedback but as he is smart enough to put his pants on in the morning he could feign ignorance on that one.  He would do so because further discussion on the difference would go in the math direction and serious math blows all his bullshit out of the murky water it swims in.  But while that point could be argued he still can't go there because math also means we can MITIGATE the outcome and that blows up his hedonistic message of 'do whatever you want because we are all going to die' up too.

I'm taking this comment for my database that I have for testing software against!  It clarifies.

* And it turned out to be a headache.  I made some edits and I had to make the edits in both places or go nuts.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 08:54:07 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline AJ

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Re: Official Arctic Meltdown Thread
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2019, 12:15:22 PM »
So let's face it you all HATE McPherson. Good. Shoot the messenger (McPherson) if you will.
SCIENCE is not so much about personalities as about consensus and facts. The facts are climate change is getting worse MUCH FASTER than anyone predicted. AND the consensus (Hanson, Beckwith, Jim Bendell, David Attenborough, David Suzuki) are more and more saying extinction is right around the corner. I DON'T LIKE THAT, but I am doing my best to try to wake the world around me up, while preparing to maybe see some make it through and not go extinct.
Shoot the messenger,
AJ 
Nullis in Verba

 

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