AuthorTopic: Brain Fart Politics  (Read 7773 times)

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2016, 04:39:51 PM »
I dont see the evidence for fascism....

If Benito Mussolini's definition of fascism is to be our guide, “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”

Please now have a look at the strongest signal we have at present as to how mr trump intends to run the country. That signal, of course, is his cabinet appointments. Let me know if you don't notice a certain pattern of putting corporate top executives and billionaires, etc., in important positions.

As John Jay ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jay ) put the sentiment underlying fascism,  "Those who own the country ought to govern it.”  Trump and his appointees would agree with this notion, I think -- though it's not polite for them to say so in such direct, clear language. So they play funny little gaslighting games to pretend to conceal themselves. Fig leafs, if you will.

Ok,  by that definition,  yes. I was thinking along the other definition requiring full allegiance to the state effort without dissent.
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Offline JRM

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2016, 05:00:42 PM »
Might as well eliminate "representational 'democracy'" while we're at it.  It never has been so good for those being ostensibly "represented".
Actually, that is the sort of thing I had in mind... get rid of representation, go to more direct participation in self-governance by the citizenry.  Just as soon as I get that unicorn ranch going....

The population (all basically agrarian) when the US Constitution was penned was really very, very tiny as contrasted with today.

http://overflow.solutions/demographic-data/what-was-the-population-of-the-us-in-1776/

The US government was created for a tiny population of agrarian people. 

Now we have a largely centralized nation with 324,118,787 "citizens".

Direct democracy is a great idea, but would require a radical redesign and massive decentralization.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decentralization

Only a revolution could result in such a radical transformation -- if it is to be deliberate to some large extent rather than as a result of unavoidable disruptive chaos.

That revolution is already happening in nascent form.  It is evident wherever there is the sort of non-violent direct action and civil disobedience as has lately been beautifully manifest at Standing Rock in opposition to the Dakota Access Pipeline.  But it can also be seen in, e.g., various permaculture and ecovillage projects, community gardens, cooperative businesses ... not just in resistance of the sort which opposes the big and centralized but also in the sort of action which is sometimes called "prefigurative politics"..., in those actions which create and celebrate a local and regional economy and way of life not based on centralization of power.  Bioregionalism is a nice example. There are hundreds, thousands of examples.

The revolution will not be televised.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline JRM

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2016, 05:13:40 PM »
There will not and cannot be a revolution in which the revolutionaries politely ask the rich and powerful for permission to enact their preferred version of eutopia. The rich and powerful will deny such passage. They will do so in the name of the public good, health, justice, goodness, truth and the
American way.  In the immortal words of David Byrne: "Same as it ever was".

There also cannot be a violent overthrow of The System (a.k.a., "powers that be", BAU...).  Nothing gives the powers that be a hard on so swiftly as a bunch of revolutionaries employing violent tactics (or even vandalism, or a disruption of the flow of traffic).  This provides them with the excuse to meet a tiny force with Shawk & Awe.

What frightens the pants off of the Powers (PTB) are non-violent "militants" intent on putting a monkey wrench in the working of The System (of oppression, domination and control) which they call "democracy".

They also worry over those folks who choose bicycles and feet over motor cars, community gardens over factory farms and industrial agriculture... and most especially those who give their sincere gifts in a gift economy.  The love-relutionaries, or whatever you wanna call us. We scare them. So they use their corporate media to purvey the message that we're not a real threat ... because we are too few in number, are too disorganized, etc.  But that's our secret weapon.  We are breeding like mice in the cracks between worlds because Their world is so ugly and stupid that we have no other choice.  We do our revolution of kindness and love in the dark, secret place of our hearts.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline JRM

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2016, 05:21:43 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGaoXAwl9kw
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline JRM

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2016, 05:31:33 PM »
Ok,  by that definition,  yes. I was thinking along the other definition requiring full allegiance to the state effort without dissent.

Scary words those.  "Without dissent" is a phrase invoking for me the terror of living in a world in which I can't write these words without fear of someone breaking into my house in the night to break my bones and skull with their night sticks in the name of freedom and justice and the American way.  I fear we're beginning to enter into just such a world. We'd better fucking nip it in the bud -- somehow -- or only our worst dystopian fantasies will be "real".

My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline RE

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2016, 06:05:16 PM »
Although His Trumpness is clearly an asshole, his election as POTUS doesn't bother me in the same way it does others here.  To me, he is just a symptom of Collapse.

He's certainly going to be an awful POTUS, but given the state of the world anyone would be awful.  Even Bernie could not have fixed the problems we have, and had he been allowed to be elected, then all the blame for collapse would have gone to "those fucking commies and socialists, they ruined it all!".  Now we can blame collapse on the fucking Righties!  lol.

It will be interesting to see how the privatization of Goobermint goes as these various Billionaires now in charge try to make a profit off a collapsing civilization.  Privatize the schools?  Who's going to have the money to send their kids to the new Charter Schools?  Privatize Medicaire?  Who's going to have the money to pay for doctor visits?  Doctors will lose their patients, then they'll be on the unemployment line too!

Also, all these things take time to play out, they don't happen overnight until there is some major discontinuity.  When the discontinuity occurs, such problems as school or medicaire privatization become trivial, the real problem will be getting food to everybody.  If you don't believe there can be such a discontinuity, then the election of Trumpty-Dumpty bothers you more than it does me, because you worry about all the chipping away at "freedom" and "democracy" that you see ongoing.  But if you are a Full Doomer, this doesn't worry you so much because it is just a symptom and stage on the way off the cliff.

Assuming we don't get some sort of Hamiltonian Elector revolt and His Trumpness is permitted so sit his ass in the Oval office, it will be othing if not entertaining to watch this bunch of clowns trying to manage the spin down of collapse.  Whatever choices there are to be made along the way, you can be sure they will pick the wrong ones.  Righties are brain dead, they don't grasp their own lives depend on others.  Eventually of course, this comes back to bite you in the ass.  Just ask Marie Antoinette and Nicholas & Alexandra Romanoff.

As for me, I am not worried about Trumpty-Dumpty.  I fully expected another asshole to be dropped into the White House, it's no surprise.  Now we get to watch some real collapse go down!

RE
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Offline JRM

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2016, 07:31:18 PM »
"It could have fought back and defended the values it stood for at that point, and tried to resist the steamroller that was neoliberalism in its early days. Or it could have adapted itself to this new reality, and changed itself to fit the rise of corporatist government. And it did the latter. Very consciously if you read what [Environmental Defense Fund president] Fred Krupp was saying at the time."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/10/naomi-klein-green-groups-climate-deniers
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2016, 01:34:57 AM »
Relax, not even Trump can fuck it up any worse than it is. He might give some light relief along the way.
The ship is going down. Don't sweat too much who is at the helm.

 

Offline RE

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2016, 02:13:15 AM »
Relax, not even Trump can fuck it up any worse than it is. He might give some light relief along the way.
The ship is going down. Don't sweat too much who is at the helm.

Yup.  Ships the size of the Titanic don't stop or turn on a dime. We're about 300 years too late for any captain who could have avoided the collision with the iceberg.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DNyKDI9pn0Q" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/DNyKDI9pn0Q</a>

RE
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2016, 04:06:14 AM »
Although His Trumpness is clearly an asshole, his election as POTUS doesn't bother me in the same way it does others here.  To me, he is just a symptom of Collapse.

He's certainly going to be an awful POTUS, but given the state of the world anyone would be awful.  Even Bernie could not have fixed the problems we have, and had he been allowed to be elected, then all the blame for collapse would have gone to "those fucking commies and socialists, they ruined it all!".  Now we can blame collapse on the fucking Righties!  lol.

It will be interesting to see how the privatization of Goobermint goes as these various Billionaires now in charge try to make a profit off a collapsing civilization.  Privatize the schools?  Who's going to have the money to send their kids to the new Charter Schools?  Privatize Medicaire?  Who's going to have the money to pay for doctor visits?  Doctors will lose their patients, then they'll be on the unemployment line too!

Also, all these things take time to play out, they don't happen overnight until there is some major discontinuity.  When the discontinuity occurs, such problems as school or medicaire privatization become trivial, the real problem will be getting food to everybody.  If you don't believe there can be such a discontinuity, then the election of Trumpty-Dumpty bothers you more than it does me, because you worry about all the chipping away at "freedom" and "democracy" that you see ongoing.  But if you are a Full Doomer, this doesn't worry you so much because it is just a symptom and stage on the way off the cliff.

Assuming we don't get some sort of Hamiltonian Elector revolt and His Trumpness is permitted so sit his ass in the Oval office, it will be othing if not entertaining to watch this bunch of clowns trying to manage the spin down of collapse.  Whatever choices there are to be made along the way, you can be sure they will pick the wrong ones.  Righties are brain dead, they don't grasp their own lives depend on others.  Eventually of course, this comes back to bite you in the ass.  Just ask Marie Antoinette and Nicholas & Alexandra Romanoff.

As for me, I am not worried about Trumpty-Dumpty.  I fully expected another asshole to be dropped into the White House, it's no surprise.  Now we get to watch some real collapse go down!

RE

Indeed. A catalyst for the process... almost as if we'd heard this before.

So absent Hamilton Electors, an alien invasion or proof that the Russians hacked the election, we will have to deal with the horror of a Trump Presidency and his Chamber of Horrors cabinet whose members seem chosen precisely for their opposition to the premises of the agency they have been chosen to lead. This ought to be good for the doom industry.

When Reagan's "Sagebrush Rebellion" looks like a polite exercise in manners in comparison, what will "normal" look like? These people have, in Charlie Pierce's phrase, "a sweet tooth for authoritarian solutions to the inconveniences of democratic government." The game will be to get the feds out of the regulation business and send responsibility back to the states, who will avoid the responsibility like cancer and force it onto already broke localities, where it will disappear for lack of money.

Want an abortion, too bad, so sad, goodbye. Not a choice you get to make. Freedom from government regulation only applies to corporate persons and their owners and does not apply to use of your private parts. 

As Paul Ryan turns Medicare into a voucher system, and the voucher pays about fifty per cent of the premium, Trump-voting Uncle Fud will have to decide whether he can live on kibble and cat food in order to pay the premiums. 

As Trump-voting rural whites on disability suddenly have to work and there is no work to be had because automation took their jobs, who will they blame? They didn't realize those moochers and takers they threw under the bus during the campaign were themselves. Time to start cooking meth again.

As Betsy DeVos gets that hated federal money diverted from your local district, and public schools become charter schools where the voucher covers a fraction of the tuition, they'll at least have a choice as to which religious affiliation they choose for their kids. Snapping the spines of public teachers' unions is just an added bonus!

As the roads stop being paved, streetlights stop being replaced, as trash collection becomes occasional, as the drinking water becomes a fetid hellbroth of god-knows-what (a la Flint), as the bills mount and when people lose their homes, as we "Make America Great Again" by rediscovering the family values of three generations living together in a two bedroom house, who will they blame?

Trump voters will savor the satisfactions of having "gotten the government off their backs."  

"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline luciddreams

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2016, 06:17:41 AM »


Indeed. A catalyst for the process... almost as if we'd heard this before.

So absent Hamilton Electors, an alien invasion or proof that the Russians hacked the election, we will have to deal with the horror of a Trump Presidency and his Chamber of Horrors cabinet whose members seem chosen precisely for their opposition to the premises of the agency they have been chosen to lead. This ought to be good for the doom industry.

When Reagan's "Sagebrush Rebellion" looks like a polite exercise in manners in comparison, what will "normal" look like? These people have, in Charlie Pierce's phrase, "a sweet tooth for authoritarian solutions to the inconveniences of democratic government." The game will be to get the feds out of the regulation business and send responsibility back to the states, who will avoid the responsibility like cancer and force it onto already broke localities, where it will disappear for lack of money.

Want an abortion, too bad, so sad, goodbye. Not a choice you get to make. Freedom from government regulation only applies to corporate persons and their owners and does not apply to use of your private parts.

As Paul Ryan turns Medicare into a voucher system, and the voucher pays about fifty per cent of the premium, Trump-voting Uncle Fud will have to decide whether he can live on kibble and cat food in order to pay the premiums.

As Trump-voting rural whites on disability suddenly have to work and there is no work to be had because automation took their jobs, who will they blame? They didn't realize those moochers and takers they threw under the bus during the campaign were themselves. Time to start cooking meth again.

As Betsy DeVos gets that hated federal money diverted from your local district, and public schools become charter schools where the voucher covers a fraction of the tuition, they'll at least have a choice as to which religious affiliation they choose for their kids. Snapping the spines of public teachers' unions is just an added bonus!

As the roads stop being paved, streetlights stop being replaced, as trash collection becomes occasional, as the drinking water becomes a fetid hellbroth of god-knows-what (a la Flint), as the bills mount and when people lose their homes, as we "Make America Great Again" by rediscovering the family values of three generations living together in a two bedroom house, who will they blame?

Trump voters will savor the satisfactions of having "gotten the government off their backs." 



How about putting a link to that entire article up Surly.  I'd like to read it. 

*edit:  Never mind, I found it
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 06:47:06 AM by luciddreams »

Offline Surly1

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2016, 06:54:57 AM »
"Donald Trump, the man soon-to-be in charge of our national security, tells Chris Wallace of Fox News Sunday, that he doesn’t need to get the Presidential Daily Brief, which the president relies upon heavily to inform national security decisions because he’s “like a smart person” and he “gets it when he needs it.”" 

-- http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/11/1609780/-Trump-says-he-doesn-t-read-the-Presidential-Daily-Brief-every-day-because-he-s-a-smart-person

People are reacting to this news with mockery, as in "I have a big brain," etc., but it occured to me to wonder this. IN the assumption that Trump is many objectionable things, but not stupid, I am wondering if he is skipping his "intelligence briefings" to avoid having done to him what was done to his predecessors: the virtual lobotomization of their decision making apparatus in the face of a description of the contours of the Deep State. Maybe Trump's refusal of the briefings is his refusal to be reined in.



Just a thought.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Surly1

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2016, 06:59:28 AM »


Indeed. A catalyst for the process... almost as if we'd heard this before.

So absent Hamilton Electors, an alien invasion or proof that the Russians hacked the election, we will have to deal with the horror of a Trump Presidency and his Chamber of Horrors cabinet whose members seem chosen precisely for their opposition to the premises of the agency they have been chosen to lead. This ought to be good for the doom industry.

When Reagan's "Sagebrush Rebellion" looks like a polite exercise in manners in comparison, what will "normal" look like? These people have, in Charlie Pierce's phrase, "a sweet tooth for authoritarian solutions to the inconveniences of democratic government." The game will be to get the feds out of the regulation business and send responsibility back to the states, who will avoid the responsibility like cancer and force it onto already broke localities, where it will disappear for lack of money.

Want an abortion, too bad, so sad, goodbye. Not a choice you get to make. Freedom from government regulation only applies to corporate persons and their owners and does not apply to use of your private parts.

As Paul Ryan turns Medicare into a voucher system, and the voucher pays about fifty per cent of the premium, Trump-voting Uncle Fud will have to decide whether he can live on kibble and cat food in order to pay the premiums.

As Trump-voting rural whites on disability suddenly have to work and there is no work to be had because automation took their jobs, who will they blame? They didn't realize those moochers and takers they threw under the bus during the campaign were themselves. Time to start cooking meth again.

As Betsy DeVos gets that hated federal money diverted from your local district, and public schools become charter schools where the voucher covers a fraction of the tuition, they'll at least have a choice as to which religious affiliation they choose for their kids. Snapping the spines of public teachers' unions is just an added bonus!

As the roads stop being paved, streetlights stop being replaced, as trash collection becomes occasional, as the drinking water becomes a fetid hellbroth of god-knows-what (a la Flint), as the bills mount and when people lose their homes, as we "Make America Great Again" by rediscovering the family values of three generations living together in a two bedroom house, who will they blame?

Trump voters will savor the satisfactions of having "gotten the government off their backs." 



How about putting a link to that entire article up Surly.  I'd like to read it. 

*edit:  Never mind, I found it

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2016/12/11/this-week-in-doom-the-hamilton-elector-edition/

You might have missed the rant for all the musings about the 1876 election as a reaction to Grant's scandals, and the electoral college kerfuffle that followed. History interests me if for no other reason than it repeats. But a lot of people start to nod and drool in the face of events more than 20 years old.

All I can say is you should have seen it before I cut it by a third.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline g

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2016, 07:27:01 AM »
Quote
IN the assumption that Trump is many objectionable things, but not stupid,

For sure Surly, Trump is hardly stupid.

A graduate of Wharton, and a man who does not even drink is a sober and alert one. There are no courses in basket weaving, or modern American poetry at Wharton either.

If I had to pick a word more appropriate than stupid, it would be "Cunning."


                                       

Offline JRM

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Re: Brain Fart Politics
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2016, 08:04:44 AM »
Quote
IN the assumption that Trump is many objectionable things, but not stupid,

For sure Surly, Trump is hardly stupid.

A graduate of Wharton, and a man who does not even drink is a sober and alert one. There are no courses in basket weaving, or modern American poetry at Wharton either.

If I had to pick a word more appropriate than stupid, it would be "Cunning."


                                       


If he isn't stupid, why in the hell does he sound so stupid every time he opens his oddly shaped little mouth?
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

 

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