PE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings

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Offline roamer

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Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings
« on: January 04, 2017, 08:39:33 AM »
Greenhouse Sketch
Greenhouse Sketch

Just daydreaming on my chromebook about the integrated cold weather greenhouse I'll build when i acquire land and money to do so.  Its a very poorly done concept sketch but maybe helpful to explain my design.

I'll trench down 8-10' and buring ABS tubing to use the ground to moderate temperatures during the winter and summer.  The other twist which i did not draw is that I'll try to find large fresnel lenses to focus direct sunlight onto a tube and then send that into an insulated rear wall which doubles as a thermal storage tower.  I'll fill that wall with breaker rock to give massive thermal mass but still allow enough air void to effectively transfer energy.

In theory I could actually run a low grade heat engine off of that energy sink, for my personal needs construction of such a device would be too complex for small outputs.


The perimeter of the greenhouse will have a drain tile with holes only on the top so that i can capture run off water and filter it in a biosand filter.  That water could be then used in the aquaponic pond or just jused to water surrounding gardens.

The overall design objective is to be able to control temperature using solar and low grade geothermal energy.  This will support a year round aquaponic system which will produce my greens, vegetables, and some fish.
 It will also be a space where I can cultivate things like medicinal mushrooms for online sale. 

To aid in ultra cold weather streaks I'll have a reflective thermal blanket to roll over it as well as a backup rocket stove that taps into the rear thermal mass.


Offline Eddie

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Re: Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2017, 09:04:20 AM »
Rainwater is also best for cooling "water walls" which you see more down south here. Most nurseries in these parts have at least one grow house with a water wall.  They use paper now for an evap surface (I remember when it was straw). No minerals in the water means the paper lasts much longer. I have a recent mentor (Dan Brecht of Industrial Country Market) who has such a system up and running for 7 years with the original evaporative paper walls.

Dan's site.....icm71.com

I got the plastic to put a new roof on my hoop house, but fence building has been occupying all my time lately. I'm still thinking of using cooling tubes buried underground that would drain any accumulated moisture into the creek, which is maybe 100 feet from the greenhouse. Mold can be a problem here.

Heating here is maybe only 10 nights a year now. I think the answer there is a big thermal mass rocket stove and aquaponics tanks for even more thermal mass.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline roamer

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Re: Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 09:26:35 AM »
Evaporative cooling is interesting strategy, sort of like a giant swamp cooler?  Another one for sunny dry southerners to consider is using nightly radiative cooling.  Its very odd but with the right design you can cool below ambient temperatures.


As for your mold concern, why not perforate the tubing and lay some gravel in your trenched hole so moisture could just drain into the ground?  I'm probably not understanding your cooling design strategy though.


Offline Eddie

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Re: Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2017, 09:38:53 AM »
, sort of like a giant swamp cooler?

Exactly. since I live in a cooling climate, it's a little harder to build a passive greenhouse. The gold standard would be a radiant floor with a deep well...tres expensive unfortunately. Eventually, I think we'll see those built though.

why not perforate the tubing and lay some gravel in your trenched hole so moisture could just drain into the ground?

That's the other possible way to do it, but you have to worry about groundwater in some places. I just happen to have a convenient drainage situation, with the creek.

Passive greenhouses are something I've given a lot of thought to. I need to get'er done though, instead of just thinking about it...it's a problem I have. LOL.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2017, 05:50:19 PM »
Out of curiosity where is the possible latitude of the greenhouse?  We are at lattitude 45  with very little solar potential due to clouds for a good portion of the winter so there is only so much we can do passively.  We have a 20x40 hoophouse for season extention.  Ive often thought of the aquaponics but even with a northern species like yellow perch I calculate I would need supplemental heat.  You might want to look into elliot colemans work.  In it he differentiates between winter growing and winter harvesting.  You grow when its warm enough and use a barely above freezing greenhouse to keep the produce harvestable all winter. Here are some interesting links:
Elliot colemans book:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_3_7?k=elliot+coleman&sprefix=elliot+
Chinese passive solar greenhouses:
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2015/12/reinventing-the-greenhouse.html
Some good brain food for you.  Keep pondering.
Best regards,  David Baillie
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2017, 06:16:47 PM »
Hi David,

I took the liberty of visiting your website. You have built yourself a fine house. Well done.

I used to think I might someday emigrate to Canada, but it doesn't seem that likely now.

We are roughly 30.8894 N, 97.9267 W.

Winters here you can grow greens outdoors most years. A winter greenhouse crop here is no big deal, better with some grow lights. Summers it gets too hot in June to grow most table veggies, outdoors. My structure is just a high wall hoop house, 24X72. We might need some heat maybe 10-20 nights a year.

Thank you for the links. I will check them out.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Integrated Cold Weather Greenhouse Ramblings
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2017, 06:19:39 PM »
Out of curiosity where is the possible latitude of the greenhouse?  We are at lattitude 45  with very little solar potential due to clouds for a good portion of the winter so there is only so much we can do passively.  We have a 20x40 hoophouse for season extention.  Ive often thought of the aquaponics but even with a northern species like yellow perch I calculate I would need supplemental heat.  You might want to look into elliot colemans work.  In it he differentiates between winter growing and winter harvesting.  You grow when https://www.reddit.com/subreddits/its warm enough and use a barely above freezing greenhouse to keep the produce harvestable all winter. Here are some interesting links:
Elliot colemans book:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_3_7?k=elliot+coleman&sprefix=elliot+
Chinese passive solar greenhouses:
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2015/12/reinventing-the-greenhouse.html
Some good brain food for you.  Keep pondering.
Best regards,  David Baillie

I live at 61N Latitude, around 1000' above mean sea level.

Currently, we can run Greenhouses and are in no danger of being overrun by Sea Level rise EVER, even if all the glaciers melt in Antarctica and Greenland.  The water won't even get close.

As temps warm up, the greenhousing for food production will become less necessary.  How many people can survive the scenario is an open question, and you would have a tough time in modeling it.  I estimate we could keep about 20% of the current population of Alaska alive indefinitely though.

RE
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 06:23:32 PM by RE »
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