AuthorTopic: Death-Stick Power Object Of The Day  (Read 3828 times)

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2017, 05:32:18 AM »
Ethical hunting.
This is not an oxymoron. I am not impressed by cruelty. Its a sign of a sick mind.
Kill only what yo either eat or feral pests, and even them you kill quickly and as painlessly as possible.
I have eaten a lot of rabbits and quail we used to shoot on the farm growing up, but now I just shoot rabbits to keep them out of the gardens. Little fluffy vermin were introduced down here by some stupid pom in the 1800's and have destroyed the ecosystems. Nearly as bad as cats... They are #1 on my shooting list! Very destructive, but very hard to shoot. Too cunning and flighty.

Bows
I have recently been given a wooden recurve bow with 50 pound pull at 28 inches I think from memory. I have not used it much but my 16 year old is a scary good shot with it! I don't like compound bows. Bit like scopes on rifles, I am just too much of a traditionalist.... Oh, and I am cheap! I will have to practice this and maybe plant some bamboo to make arrows. (There is a bamboo species available commonly called arrow bamboo as this is what was traditionally used in Japan I am told)

Single shot vs Bolt Action vs semi-auto
The Australian military issued semi-auto SLRs in my day and 1 x M60 in the section and 1 x M16 for the scout with auto option. Now its all semi auto Styres I believe and a 5.56 belt fed gun.. The idea of semi auto only is to conserve amo and make sure shots counted. Infantry operating philosophy was to be able to operate autonomously with minimal re-supply. Hard if every young Harry Hormone shoots off his clip on full auto prematurely so to speak. We were taught to count rounds and shoot when we have a target. Marksmanship was a high priority. Run, down, crawl  observe, AIM, fire. I would much rather be missed by a 50 cal than hit by a 22.....
99% of hunting you only get 1 shot at the target if you are lucky, so it really is overkill to have a 10 or 15 shot magazine on a huge kicking cannon let alone a semi auto bazooka with 30 round banana clip.. Wanabe Rambo's. If you only get 1 shot, you need to make it count. Accurate rifles, shot placement and correct shooting and stalking technique. In the days of muzzle loaders hunters certainly knew they only had one shot.
The point is before buying a faster repeater of bigger caliber and larger scope people need to learn to shoot! To do this you need to practice, and this costs money. Best to have a small caliber rifle or even an air rifle just for practice. Plenty of really cheap single shot .22LR around. Perfect for practice and also excellent for hunting small game and vermin.

Firearms for protection when SHTF.
I really think everyones imagination goes wild when they think of the EOTWAWKI. Any sort of decline will probably have a short  bad period of maybe a month or 2 before everything settles down. The emphasis on protection is a little over rated. I really don't think we will have lawless thugs raoming the streets shooting everyone: Thats happening now form what I read of Detroit or Chicago. ::) In a few days they will be either dead, out of amo or too busy trying to find food and water like everyone else. Good hunting firearms can be used for deterance or protection, but I really think his will not be needed often or for long, so this should not be a priority when choosing a firearm. That should upset all the "Guns and Spam" preppers... Best defence is community and good relationships. Might be romantic notions of lone woodsman, but community family man with neighbours looking out for each other is more likely to survive I believe. That's how remote stations survived 100 years ago. More like Little House On the Prarie than Mad Max me thinks.

JOW

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2017, 02:27:40 PM »
Any good home recipes for black powder out there?
Post them please.


JOW

Online Eddie

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2017, 04:23:32 PM »
Any good home recipes for black powder out there?
Post them please.


JOW

That's really a two part-er. It requires some careful technique,even if you have the correct pure starting materials. The second part, is where do you get the starting materials? You could stockpile some. But where do you get sulfur and potassium nitrate after a collapse? Good question.

This guy uses potassium nitrate, charcoal (he made), and sulfur...and a little bit of dextrin (as a binder?). I like his technique.

I've never actually made any. It would be a good skill to have.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/N8Fn12MnZcs&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/N8Fn12MnZcs&fs=1</a>
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Online Eddie

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2017, 05:27:53 PM »
Ever see Sling Blade?

This guy sounds slow, but he's not. He's just from Arkansas. He makes some good safety suggestions. Both techniques I've seen so far involve having a ball mill polisher. You have that probably, if you're a  reloader. I used to have one. Not sure what became of it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GFnVLJALvus&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/GFnVLJALvus&fs=1</a>

Best place I found to get KNO3:

http://www.seedranch.com/Potassium-Nitrate-Powder-KNO3-Saltpeter-p/KNO3-Powder-5.htm?gclid=Cj0KEQjw8tbHBRC6rLS024qYjtEBEiQA7wIDeQdesCcp1hfMPMMRB_QpoTbQGibSBzvwk6sMbKk1OvIaAr_78P8HAQ

Sulfur:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=sulfur50&gclid=Cj0KEQjw8tbHBRC6rLS024qYjtEBEiQA7wIDecP3kaYPhE5z6KIJ3vdAJlea4A_LNrpGnr64hr1Csy8aAgLb8P8HAQ

Have not done business with either, but I recognize the Duda name from eBay biodiesel equipment sellers.

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Offline RE

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2017, 08:46:42 PM »
I don't see much point to making your own black powder.

First off, even commercial grade black powder doesn't carry the punch that smokeless powder does.  Smokeless carries roughly 3X the punch that BP does.  It's also unlikely your home brew will be as good as commercial grade.

As Eddie points out also, you're unlikely to be able to access quality sulfur or KNO3 after TSHTF, so you have to stock up on it now.  If you are stocking up on that, why not just  stock up on pre-loaded ammo?  The only reason might be cost, and since the ammo is mass produced, I'm not sure how big that savings would be.

As JoW points out, if it does turn into a shoot-em-up in the early days of SHTF, then most people will have expended their ammo in a few months tops.

What I would do is stick to the Primitive Weapons and Trapping for hunting purposes and conserve the ammo for emergency purposes.  Longbow, Compound Bow, Cross Bow & Atl-Atl for larger game,  Slingbow, pistol crossbow and sling for small game like squirrels, rabbits, wild turkey etc.  Maybe a BB Gun too for this.  Snares and traps for both larger game and the small stuff.  A large caliber revolver like a .44 Magnum or .45 for Bear Protection.

The firearms mainly reserved for emergencies like a Home Invasion.  For this you want a good semi-auto pistol with a couple of extra magazines for fast reload.  Typically, a Glock or Sig Sauer 9mm.  Then a fully automatic Assault Rifle like a modified AR-15 or a Kalshnikov or Uzi if you can get your hands on one.  A long distance Sniper Rifle with a good scope for picking off Zombies before they get too close to the Doomstead.  Chris Kyle (American Sniper) recommends .338 caliber mostly, rather than the massive .50 cal BMG, that is the stuff of legends (kills at up to 2 miles!).  He says .50 cal rifles are just too big and heavy, and the .338 does pretty much the same job.  He does give high marks to one .50 cal though, this model from Accuracy International.


A scattergun (aka sawed off shotgun) might also come in handy during a Home Invasion.

RE
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Online Eddie

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2017, 08:15:38 AM »
With the right rifle, black powder is more than adequate for a variety of lethal jobs. I'd opt for a long barrel .32 caliber flintlock for most game hunting, and have a .50 Sharps for distance shooting. I can see the benefit of stockpiling the ingredients, because they're safer to store than powder, and they're pretty cheap if you shop around. Even I will run out of .22 shells eventually.  :)

You can buy a lot of rifle kits, but they are not cheap.


$745, some assembly required

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKitDetail.aspx/605/1/CLASSIC-TENNESSEE-LONGRIFLE-FLINT-PARTS-LIST/KIT-CTI-13-32-FLINT

Lots of cheaper .50 calibers, from Cabelas and elsewhere. Not the best for most uses. Not sure if the modern style rifles are better, but they are less expensive, starting at under $250.
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Offline RE

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2017, 08:44:24 AM »
With the right rifle, black powder is more than adequate for a variety of lethal jobs. I'd opt for a long barrel .32 caliber flintlock for most game hunting, and have a .50 Sharps for distance shooting. I can see the benefit of stockpiling the ingredients, because they're safer to store than powder, and they're pretty cheap if you shop around. Even I will run out of .22 shells eventually.  :)

A single shot muzzle loader isn't all that much more lethal than a Crossbow, and I think you can reload a crossbow faster.  Gives you a bit more distance.

Storing the ingredients is safer than storing the powder, for sure, but I still would like to know the cost differential between buying the ingredients and buying pre-manufactured ammo.  You're also going to have to have a supply of lead and be able to cast replacement bullets.

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Online Eddie

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2017, 08:52:21 AM »
Casting bullets is pretty easy. Making your own black powder is  2 -3x cheaper than buying commercial black powder, according to some of those utoobers.

The modern BP rifles all seem to require a percussion cap, which is, of course, store-bought goods. You need something like a flintlock to get out of that.

Guns, even BP, are more accurate than the best crossbow. To each his own.
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Offline RE

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 09:01:59 AM »
Casting bullets is pretty easy. Making your own black powder is  2 -3x cheaper than buying commercial black powder, according to some of those utoobers.

The modern BP rifles all seem to require a percussion cap, which is, of course, store-bought goods. You need something like a flintlock to get out of that.

Guns, even BP, are more accurate than the best crossbow. To each his own.

So, now in addition to your powder ingredients, you need lead and casting equipment, and a flintlock, and you need time to practice mixing up your ingredients safely, loading this rifle and shooting it semi-accurately.

I think it would be a lot easier just to buy more ammo for the guns you already have. lol.

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Online Eddie

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2017, 09:07:11 AM »
I don't own a black powder gun of any kind, but the powder ingredients might be a good barter item in certain circumstances. I even saw a hack where somebody converted an air rifle like mine into a black powder gun. Besides, you can blow shit up with black powder if you get bored.

I read a story in the MSM news feed just a few days ago about a guy who was planning to hike the entire Appalachian Trail, but blew his hand off trying to start a fire using black powder.....on his first night of camping. Black powder is a little dangerous.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 09:10:43 AM by Eddie »
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Offline RE

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2017, 09:14:22 AM »
I don't own a black powder gun of any kind, but the powder ingredients might be a good barter item in certain circumstances. I even saw a hack where somebody converted an air rifle like mine into a black powder gun. Besides, you can blow shit up with black powder if you get bored.

I read a story in the MSM news feed just a few days ago about a guy who was planning to hike the entire Appalachian Trail, but blew his hand off trying to start a fire using black powder.....on his first night of camping. Black powder is a little dangerous.

It would be handy for the purposes of making pipe bombs, IEDs and booby traps.  Much more useful there than the rifle application, IMHO.

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Online Eddie

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2017, 02:06:45 PM »
If you're making black powder you need a ball mill. Here's one possible solution. Skylighter is a company that sells stuff to people for fireworks, and the author suggests a particular product and some mods to make it work better. Worth a read, imho.

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to/ball-mill.asp

Buy the right ball mill here much cheaper than other sites.

https://www.cannonfuse.com/store/pc/6lb-Capacity-Ball-Mill-p266.htm
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 02:11:34 PM by Eddie »
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Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2017, 02:29:38 PM »
When things go South, modern bullets and powders will not be available. I agree stock up on consumables, but this finite stockpile will not last infinitely... Sounds familiar.

Casting lead is easy. Low temp fires with old car batteries or plumbing flashing etc... Hand moulds available. Me and my brother used to pinch dads solder and cast toy soldiers over a gas stove using and old aluminium sauce pan since I was about 10!

Muzzle loaders don't require shells and primers. Just powder and projectiles.
Flintlocks or match locks may be better due to no caps but these should be able to be made too.

In a low tech, low energy situation we may have half a chance of getting some of these simple ingredients and making out own powder. The Chinese did it 2000 years ago while the Romans were using swords and catapults! We will have no hope of making modern powders.

Sniper rifles are expensive, complex, fragile (If you knock a scope) and only as good as the shooter. 338L or BMG50 shells are worth a fortune! A couple of bucks a shot vs 20 cents or less for a rim fire... Limited value, and useless once amo runs out. 100m is maximum range 90% of shooting occurs at unless you are hunting seals on the tundra or foxes in open paddocks and other such very open country. Better to stock 100 times the 2nd hand firearms and rimfire amo for the same cost... You can always use an old single shot 22 as barter.. You can get these here for $50 Vs $5000 for a 338 or 50 cal.

Big handguns in oz not that common, so not really an option on a budget. You can get cheap rimfire and BP pistols.. Hmm might be ok. I place firearms in my top 10 necessities, but closer to 10 than 1... This means I have 8 or 9 other priorities to buy/ make/ procure before spending a fortune on firearms. Food and water sources, heat, shelter, medical supplies, tools, spare parts, building materials, secondary power sources etc in no particular order. Firearms fall into a sub-category of the food source category for me first, and any protection issues secondary. (RE likes to categorise things...) Better to have a cheaper compromise than nothing in my philosophy. You can always upgrade later.

Most of the zombies here are too busy looking at small screens while walking to pose a threat... I expect they will all get lost and wander off a cliff when google maps no longer works.

Always wondered how much cheap or free stuff will be available during and after financial collapse... Buying opportunity!

JOW

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2017, 04:39:06 PM »
Casting projectiles:
I have a mate who casts his own .303 projectiles.
He tells me don't use plumbing flashing, it is too soft. Use old wheel balance weights. You can get them for free at most wreckers/ off your neighbours car / off old wheels and they are a harder alloy of lead and make excellent projectiles. Can be melted over a gas stove in a saucepan for casting, or over a charcoal fire.

JOW

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Gunz & Ammo
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2017, 04:54:39 AM »
I had a 500 word reply 90% done and just lost it! Doh!!
Sorry Eddie, if you have 17 firearms you are a gun nut!  ;D
(I am just jealous)

To state the bleeding obvious: I suppose it depends on why you own firearms as to what you should own.

Here is RE's Emporium of Doom, I assume we are talking about practical applications once SHTF.  I agree a lot of ex-military will be prevalent and thus best for barter. Here in Oz that would have to be .303. There must be a million Enfields floating about. Balistically so close to .308, just cant load up too hot with old Enfield actions. Your K98 Mauser is indeed the way to go. I used to have a Enfield #5 Jungle carbine I used for hunting. Getting rare now. Current hunting rifle is 7 x 57 K93 Mauser shortened. Also getting rare, and amo is not that widely available so I load my own. Maybe a .303 should be on my prep list. Plenty of sporterised examples around very cheap. Original examples are getting snapped up by collectors.

There is a fair bit of .308 and .223 around, but because semi-autos are effectively banned down here after a fucking idiot nut job went crazy in 96 and shot many men women and even small children at Port Arthur with several military style assault rifles, .223 and .308 are not as common as you might think. No cheap Mini14 or AR rifles to create demand, and because you actually have to have a good reason to own firearms down here, military style rifles are not common. You can own semi-autos but only for specific purposes, such as a professional hunter to use to cull wild buffalo etc... Wanting to shoot your noisy druggy neighbours is not a good enough reason according to local authorities. Who would have thought?

Like I have already said, I actually think it is a good idea that guns are restricted to relatively responsible enthusiast gun owners and farmers down here. Last thing you want when things go south is for every hungry stupid person to be running around with lots of powerful guns. Bad times in the US will end with a lot of holes in a lot of things.

I have fired a mini 14 back in the 80's. Fun. Not sure of accuracy. Might have just been that particular rifle. Same for an old M1 in .30 cal a neighbour had growing up for pig hunting. Fun but not at all accurate from memory, and a little under powered for long range hunting. I have seen a lot of lever action 30-30's here. Probably common everywhere. Powerful enough for most of our game. Might be good to stockpile. 45-70 lever actions are popular for deer hunting, but relatively few around so no good to stockpile. Iliked firing this in a Marlin some years back. Always nice to have the biggest car on the lot. (Made up for other shortcoming perhaps) 

I also have a .22WMR. Old inherited Anshultz. Good for 90% of shooting here, and cheap for practice. Not as prevalent as .22lr but still plenty around. balisticaly just that bit better than .22LR. Accurate out to about 100m and not much more expensive to shoot. 2nd hand rifles seem cheap. I assume this caliber is out of fashion right now, and there must be a lot of 2nd hand examples around. This would be another good round to stockpile locally.

One of the best options has to be a 12g. From #10 shot for quail, to #4 for foxes to 00 for roos to solids for wild pigs and everything in between. This must be pretty universal so amo would be a good commodity after SHTF. I have an old Mosberg bolt action, and it is fantastic! looks weird and everyone turns their nose up at it, but it shoot like a rifle out to nearly 100m with full choke and 00 shot, and is reliable and versatile. I don't currently load this as I do SFA shooting at the moment. Hopefully that will change over the next few years as I get a bit more spare time. I will put a 12g press on my SHTF prep list...

Handguns are useless. Much better off with a 12g or a small rifle. Maybe a Mad Max sawn off may be all right for defence, but like any pistol its useless for any real world hunting applications, and a waste to destroy a good 12g, when it is much more accurate and imposing if you want to deter would be nasty people... just to stirr up the pistol wankers and the Hollywood movie watching arm chair critics, I will say this: Over 25m pistols are useless. Would be better option to throw it at the target! You can get hand guns down here but more restrictions again over what you have to do to own a rifle, so no use stockpiling pistol rounds as they are relatively rare.

Muzzle loaders are the way to go! I "borrowed" for several years an uncles CVA .50cal Hawken. I loved it. Once the smoke cleared and you could see the target I was surprised how accurate it was, at least at close range, and you can cast your own projectiles easily! When everything goes South there will be plenty of lead form old car batteries and roof flashing to cast with, and you could just about make your own powder with a little bit of chemistry 101. Yep, definitely putting a black powder muzzle loader on my list. Black powder and even percussion caps are pretty universal, so would make sense to keep some for barter. Have seen a guy making his own percussion caps too, so that is a plus when they become unavailable.

Which brings me to the next question: With 17 firearms how many different callibers do you own?
Standardisation and consolidation must be a priority or you need 17 different stockpiles for you rown use, and when it becomes unavailable yo will not be able to find it for your own firearms!

The other way to look at is that less popular callibers may appreciate more in price when amo becomes less available,so this may be better for barter. This certainly is the case with my 7 x 57. Brass is getting rare for this down here believe it on not. I can still find factory loaded most gun shops, but not much in the way of brass.

Save the best for last: Air rifles. The old fashioned slug gun must be #1 on any list. Slugs are cheap and small to stockpile, and as long as you can cock it you can fire it! I have taken a few rabbits with an old Anshultz .22 break barrel slug gun. There are plenty of high powered rifles around, either pump up or break barrel, and the new big bore hunting rifles are interesting. Just need to cast projectiles and a hand pump. Steer clear of CO2 rifles. No cartridges when industrial civilisation ends.

Of course this just covers firearms. Bows are a different topic.

JOW

 

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