AuthorTopic: Machinery for a post collapse world  (Read 10697 times)

Online Nearingsfault

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #150 on: May 15, 2018, 10:17:41 AM »
Agreed once the oil is gone the energy to grow and produce the veg oil is gone as well. My toys will run longer but they will be unmaintainable past a certain point of collapse. They are all about having options and buying time. A good mechanic nearby helps. The Era I prefer are pretty basic machines though. A $50 manual and some wrenches and you are good to go. We'll see...
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Re: Look what followed me home
« Reply #151 on: May 15, 2018, 02:33:17 PM »
A friend clued me in to a local online auction going on for a 1960 Massey Ferguson 202 Workbull tractor. Its the industrial cousin of the tractor I already have and an easy conversion to run on Woodgas... It has a stock heavy duty loader on the front. She comes home Next tuesday as long as she starts up. Gas engine continental z134 so lots of companies making kits and parts still today. The rubber is at least 20 years old on it still holding air with good tread and no cracking. It was made to be fixed by farmers with handtools. Its a complex machine but built to take a pounding and run into perpetuity... Another addition to the apocalypse agriculture inc fleet.

Nice find. I really need to get to work done on my old tractors. Hydraulic hoses on the backhoe (hard to get to) and the Kubota really probably needs a rebuild (running when parked but smoking a bit more than it should and a leaky rear main), and the IH 474 (hydraulic pump failed). Long way to the nearest decent (affordable) shop, and now I have the LS, so it's easy to put off. I do miss the backhoe.



Mine are all diesel, so when the fuel runs out its done.
A client just bought this: https://www.solectrac.com/eutility
I think electric small tractors will be the norm within a generation barring total collapse. The new diesels are just so complex they are a maintenance nightmare. Yes they run on less fuel then their older cousins but they are beasts made to be run hard in an industrial capacity and replaced past a certain point. That's fine in the multi 100 hp range but you want something you can use in one hour or 2 hour increments for a generation electric is the way to go. We just installed a 10kW net metered system to help with charging it and offset the house's loads. We will see. The model I like more is their Farmer one https://www.solectrac.com/efarmer
Just pared down to bare bones with a honking big battery and powerful motor...
If I had the coin that is where I would put it. JD has one out next year Agco as well. All this presumes BAU keeps going of course.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Online RE

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #152 on: May 15, 2018, 03:05:15 PM »
I own 38 acres. If I had a big farm somewhere I might be able to grow enough sunflowers to make biodiesel, but I only have maybe 10 acres of arable land. You know that.  In a collapse scenario I'd probably plant corn on most of it for pig feed. I could make enough corn to feed out one or maybe two animals. Tops.

You have to be able to grow big acreage and then extract the oil, which is another whole problem set.

If all you can feed is one or two pigs, then you can't even raise enough food to feed a couple of horses also to take the place of your tractor.  On top of the drought situation, the Toothstead is starting to sound like a White Elephant.  How could you even feed your children and their spouses, forget any kids?

RE
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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #153 on: May 15, 2018, 03:39:29 PM »
I own 38 acres. If I had a big farm somewhere I might be able to grow enough sunflowers to make biodiesel, but I only have maybe 10 acres of arable land. You know that.  In a collapse scenario I'd probably plant corn on most of it for pig feed. I could make enough corn to feed out one or maybe two animals. Tops.

You have to be able to grow big acreage and then extract the oil, which is another whole problem set.

If all you can feed is one or two pigs, then you can't even raise enough food to feed a couple of horses also to take the place of your tractor.  On top of the drought situation, the Toothstead is starting to sound like a White Elephant.  How could you even feed your children and their spouses, forget any kids?

RE
the trick is to throw out the whole commodities farming model that has come to be everyone's image of agriculture. for most of history agriculture was subsistence not business. So he would not raise corn for the pigs he would raise it for himself and the chickens. the pigs would forage the field for leftovers and roots churning things up as well as eat everything that goes moldy or is left on a plate including the slops. For tillage forget the clydesdales fat on grain pulling concrete at a plow match he would probably revert to mule donkey and oxen cultivation for field crops. They live on grass weeds and small shrubs. The bulk of the calories comes from the garden close to home irrigated and cared for. Maybe some year he has a very small reserve of grain and some smoked bacon which he sells off for parts and Novacaine. Maybe advil if its still around! The tractors only have to work long enough to get the fields ready then as scrap... once  a field is a field again a much lower energy model is possible. Conditioning a field with draft animals alone could take years of work.
In my humble opinion of course.  Proving my wonderful theories would take a lifetime of toil.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 03:44:32 PM by David B. »
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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #154 on: May 15, 2018, 03:48:42 PM »
So he would not raise corn for the pigs he would raise it for himself and the chickens. the pigs would forage the field for leftovers and roots churning things up as well as eat everything that goes moldy or is left on a plate including the slops.

He didn't say that.  H said he would raise corn to feed the animals, not himself, and that he could only feed two of them.

 
Quote
For tillage forget the clydesdales fat on grain pulling concrete at a plow match he would probably revert to mule donkey and oxen cultivation for field crops. They live on grass weeds and small shrubs.

He doesn't have mule, donkey or oxen, much less Cydesdales.  He has no idea whatsoever how many of any of those animals he can support without actively planting some of the 40 acres with food for the animals.  That's not including the stuff the chickens and the pigs eat.

He also said only 10 of the acres are tillable and arable land good for growing crops.  We are getting quite restricted here on what this property can support, and this is while they are still getting at least some rain.

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #155 on: May 15, 2018, 03:59:42 PM »
So he would not raise corn for the pigs he would raise it for himself and the chickens. the pigs would forage the field for leftovers and roots churning things up as well as eat everything that goes moldy or is left on a plate including the slops.

He didn't say that.  H said he would raise corn to feed the animals, not himself, and that he could only feed two of them.

 
Quote
For tillage forget the clydesdales fat on grain pulling concrete at a plow match he would probably revert to mule donkey and oxen cultivation for field crops. They live on grass weeds and small shrubs.

He doesn't have mule, donkey or oxen, much less Cydesdales.  He has no idea whatsoever how many of any of those animals he can support without actively planting some of the 40 acres with food for the animals.  That's not including the stuff the chickens and the pigs eat.

He also said only 10 of the acres are tillable and arable land good for growing crops.  We are getting quite restricted here on what this property can support, and this is while they are still getting at least some rain.

RE
My point was that a human with tillable land has options. Its a prep. My scenario is pure fiction but plausible. I'm no dry country farmer though. I do know donkeys and mules have been used in similar conditions in the past. That is all.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #156 on: May 15, 2018, 04:08:20 PM »
I own 38 acres. If I had a big farm somewhere I might be able to grow enough sunflowers to make biodiesel, but I only have maybe 10 acres of arable land. You know that.  In a collapse scenario I'd probably plant corn on most of it for pig feed. I could make enough corn to feed out one or maybe two animals. Tops.

You have to be able to grow big acreage and then extract the oil, which is another whole problem set.

If all you can feed is one or two pigs, then you can't even raise enough food to feed a couple of horses also to take the place of your tractor.  On top of the drought situation, the Toothstead is starting to sound like a White Elephant.  How could you even feed your children and their spouses, forget any kids?

RE

Horses and mules  live on pasture and graze. They only need supplemental food when they're being worked. I could do more than raise ten acres of corn, especially with aquaponics and greenhouse growing. But the bottom line is that if I were intending to be a successful farmer, I could do better on a different plot. A couple of hundred acres would be nice. My grandfather raised a family on that, with mules to plow, and a couple of cows and a pig or two fed out to slaughter when cold weather hit. A big garden. It can be done.

I was only saying that running a tractor on biodiesel would require lots of land, and oil extracting equipment. Your'e going off in 20 directions, making lots of assumptions and drawing conclusions that don't make CFS.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Look what followed me home
« Reply #157 on: May 15, 2018, 04:14:39 PM »
A friend clued me in to a local online auction going on for a 1960 Massey Ferguson 202 Workbull tractor. Its the industrial cousin of the tractor I already have and an easy conversion to run on Woodgas... It has a stock heavy duty loader on the front. She comes home Next tuesday as long as she starts up. Gas engine continental z134 so lots of companies making kits and parts still today. The rubber is at least 20 years old on it still holding air with good tread and no cracking. It was made to be fixed by farmers with handtools. Its a complex machine but built to take a pounding and run into perpetuity... Another addition to the apocalypse agriculture inc fleet.


Nice find. I really need to get to work done on my old tractors. Hydraulic hoses on the backhoe (hard to get to) and the Kubota really probably needs a rebuild (running when parked but smoking a bit more than it should and a leaky rear main), and the IH 474 (hydraulic pump failed). Long way to the nearest decent (affordable) shop, and now I have the LS, so it's easy to put off. I do miss the backhoe.



Mine are all diesel, so when the fuel runs out its done.
A client just bought this: https://www.solectrac.com/eutility
I think electric small tractors will be the norm within a generation barring total collapse. The new diesels are just so complex they are a maintenance nightmare. Yes they run on less fuel then their older cousins but they are beasts made to be run hard in an industrial capacity and replaced past a certain point. That's fine in the multi 100 hp range but you want something you can use in one hour or 2 hour increments for a generation electric is the way to go. We just installed a 10kW net metered system to help with charging it and offset the house's loads. We will see. The model I like more is their Farmer one https://www.solectrac.com/efarmer
Just pared down to bare bones with a honking big battery and powerful motor...
If I had the coin that is where I would put it. JD has one out next year Agco as well. All this presumes BAU keeps going of course.

The electric tractor looks very cool. Thanks for posting that. I didn't know there was a commercial product like that available.

I will say that I like my plug-in hybrid car. Both electrical power and fossil fuel capability makes sense in BAU, anyway. The longer I own the Volt, the more impressed I am. I want the new one with 53 mile range. I wish I could get a truck with a similar set-up. VIA Motors was started by people involved with development of the Volt. But they don't sell except to fleets.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online RE

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #158 on: May 15, 2018, 04:35:49 PM »
I could do better on a different plot. A couple of hundred acres would be nice. My grandfather raised a family on that, with mules to plow, and a couple of cows and a pig or two fed out to slaughter when cold weather hit. A big garden. It can be done.

The Toothstead isn't a "couple of hundred" acres, it's 40.  What can you raise and feed on that plot, which is already more than you can handle and still drill teeth at the same time?  Can you raise in one year say 2 Pigs for Slaughter, a Dozen Chickens for laying eggs, a Goat or small Cow for Milk & Cheese & feed two mules for doing work tasks?  Add in a Veggie garden in the Greenhouse to that for people food.

RE
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 05:22:14 PM by RE »
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wonderful wood heated walipini
« Reply #159 on: May 22, 2018, 06:09:08 AM »
We all have mentors and role models. Meet a wood gasser I've talked to for some time. Check out his Walapini with charcoal kiln and cold cellar. He puts me to shame!

https://youtu.be/eMxjZPfNJek

Cheers,  David
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #160 on: May 22, 2018, 06:25:34 AM »
Nice.

I am nearing the end of tomato season here, I fear. Night time temps now only getting into the low 70's. No more blooms. Lettuce has been over for a couple of weeks. I left my tomatoes in large buckets, which is how I bought them. By not transplanting, I think I lost less fruit.

I have beans coming on.

My garden misses my daughters. It's sad.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #161 on: May 22, 2018, 06:31:18 AM »
Nice.

I am nearing the end of tomato season here, I fear. Night time temps now only getting into the low 70's. No more blooms. Lettuce has been over for a couple of weeks. I left my tomatoes in large buckets, which is how I bought them. By not transplanting, I think I lost less fruit.

I have beans coming on.

My garden misses my daughters. It's sad.
I formed all my garden beds and am just about to plant. seeds now and transplants in a week. We often get a good killer frost last week of may first of june so I've learned to wait. If I was on top of things I would have cold weather greens going under remay cloth but time is short when you single parent...
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #162 on: May 22, 2018, 06:34:46 AM »
We have gotten a little rain, and it's amazing how much better the garden does on rainwater than it does on chlorinated city water. Quite noticeable.

Right now the pecan trees on the stead are looking great, but after a dry winter, I look for that to change in a month or two.

I continue to play around with propagating the ancient fig trees left by the pioneer people who lived and died on the stead before my time. I need to take some more cuttings before the sap quits running.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #163 on: May 22, 2018, 06:47:28 AM »
do it do it now. The pigs are nice but propagation to pass on those genes is essential. Think of how many mini droughts those plants have gone through. They are the survivors of countless tries. In times of trouble they could be worth their weight in gold for yourself or as another trade item. A little luxury in shitty times would fetch a huge premium. I'm supposed to plant 10 grape roots sometime. They are a heritage cold weather adapted juice type an ancestor to the concorde... We will see how they do. The deer are usually more disciplined then I am so my batting average is not great. Off to "work". I bring home my 1960 work bull today hopefully.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

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Tractor triumph
« Reply #164 on: May 22, 2018, 12:56:43 PM »
She made it home. 58 years old sitting completely idle for 2 years and moved once a year for the last 5. We had to sand the points drain the gas add fresh and boom back to life... she is a perfect candidate for gasification. Grinning ear to ear driving it home.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

 

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