AuthorTopic: Machinery for a post collapse world  (Read 8620 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: Tractor Triumph
« Reply #165 on: May 22, 2018, 01:10:26 PM »
Is that the industrial model with no PTO? Nice tractor in any case.

As you probably know, the old Fords and their clones are very light in front. My Dad  disliked them because he had a cousin who died on one when he turned it over mowing pasture. (He left a widow with four or five very lovely daughters, who used to ride my school bus.)

Dad thought the loader on a Ford made it safer.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 01:46:30 PM by Eddie »
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Offline David B.

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Playing with alcohol
« Reply #166 on: June 03, 2018, 06:03:29 PM »
So, once upon a time i used to do a fair bit of hiking. Usually weekend warrior stuff but the occasional long trek. I want to do one or two weekend camps this year and have been assessing gear. My go to stove was always the whisperlite that runs on white gas or kerosene. Its a tank and still runs great but the long hikers I know and trust tend to go with alcohol. Not having much experience with them I youtubed and made a few of the coke can variety. Not bad but for $9 I bought this one with a spring loaded stand. I cooked potatoes on it tonight to test it out and am doing a test comparing it to propane. Standard 1 litre boil and duration test with a known quantity of fuel. I know I could make a few gallons a year of pure Alcohol. Having a little bit of fuel would be a nice collapse perk. For now ill just test a stove and dream of hiking. The idea is a can inside a can and small holes for the gasified fuel to escape by. It gives you a hotter burn then the fondue pot type.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #167 on: June 03, 2018, 10:01:37 PM »
Much more heat/energy if you pressurise and pre-heat the fuel with a dribble of alcohol to get it started - the Primus stove.  Used on the first North and South Pole expeditions and on Everest.

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Online RE

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #168 on: June 04, 2018, 12:01:50 AM »
Much more heat/energy if you pressurise and pre-heat the fuel with a dribble of alcohol to get it started - the Primus stove.  Used on the first North and South Pole expeditions and on Everest.



I had  a Primus!  It was my first camping stove, before the days of Propane.  Got it around age 11 after returning from Brazil, it  was a prized possesion.  With me for many camping trips well into my 20s, made  lot of Oatmeal, Scrambled Eggs and coffee on that stove.  Lost track of it when my mom sold MY HOUSE in the 1990s.  It was all brass, very nice.

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Offline David B.

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #169 on: June 04, 2018, 05:11:13 AM »
Much more heat/energy if you pressurise and pre-heat the fuel with a dribble of alcohol to get it started - the Primus stove.  Used on the first North and South Pole expeditions and on Everest.


primus is a nice stove but heavy. My whisper lite uses the same principals. There are some interesting vids about homemade pressurised alcohol I might try one. For the stove above 1 litre boiled in 11 minutes versus 5.5 on the propane burner. Probably not a fair test since calibrating the stove burner to the same strength of flame was impossible. The stove holds 100ml and burned at full strength for 40 minutes. I was happy with it; it boiled, has no parts to fail, and has enough capacity to make a meal.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #170 on: June 04, 2018, 05:44:14 AM »
I was happy with it; it boiled, has no parts to fail, and has enough capacity to make a meal.

If you want simple with no parts to fail, try Sterno.


I have a nice supply laid in the Preps.  If I work through all the Sterno and Propane, it's time to go harvest some wood.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #171 on: June 04, 2018, 07:07:07 AM »
I have an old Primus somewhere. Is that a Trangia you shared the pics of? I do like the simplicity.

Lately I've been more interested in the kind of expeditionary stove that doesn't require packing fuel. They have rocket stoves down to a couple of pounds now , and when you factor in no carried fuel, I think it becomes an interesting alternative. I have not gotten one yet.



https://www.etsy.com/listing/479984412/rocket-outdoor-backpacker-stove-2-x-2?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_c-home_and_living-outdoor_and_garden-fire_pits-fire_pits&utm_custom1=cb46080d-dcf6-4405-af78-99cf1f2996c0&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3uPSp5S62wIVki-BCh0YwQ9GEAQYBCABEgIh6PD_BwE
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #172 on: June 04, 2018, 07:40:17 AM »
My experience with real ultralight backpacking is virtually nil, but it takes fuel to make a fire, wherever you are. You would have a better idea than I would, how much your Whisperlite uses, but of course it depends on altitude and wind.

How much weight of fuel do you calculate for a weekend trek? The weight savings of alcohol over propane seems fairly negligible to me. People get pretty tripped out trying to save a few ozs.

But whatever fuel you carry has weight. Not exact, I know, but there is an old saying that "a pint is a pound the world around". That's water of course, not alcohol.






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Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #173 on: June 04, 2018, 07:59:59 AM »
Looks like the newer wind resistant stoves weigh about a pound, and are maybe 30% more efficient than your Whisperlite. Most of them, you can't simmer, just boil. They aren't $10, but some of the really good ones can be had for a hundred bucks.

What's best depends totally on what conditions you'll be in. Do you need to melt snow for water? To me, that's the most basic question to consider.

Above the timberline my rocket stove idea wouldn't work.

Like the camper fantasy, I have this fantasy of climbing a couple more 14er's before I'm done. I need to get on with it if I'm going to get it done.



This is the Maroon Bells.

My second daughter used to live nearby in her ski bum/river guide days.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #174 on: June 04, 2018, 08:01:04 AM »
The JetBoil system which runs on Butane is quite nice.



The issue of course with all these portable cooking systems is the fuel availability you have while out in the bush, you can only carry so much with you.  In the right neighborhood, wood is usually available but a lot of places you want to hunt don't have much wood around, the Tundra for instance or above the tree line in the mountains.  Liquid fuels are your best bet giving you the most BTUs by weight.  Sterno is in fact quite hard to beat for its simplicity and BTUs per pound.

Post SHTF world, you are pretty much relegated to wood and alcohol burning stoves.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #175 on: June 04, 2018, 08:28:37 AM »
Got to remember that fluid ozs is a volume measure commonly used for measuring small amounts of liquid fuel, and isn't a measure of weight.

A big 30 fluid oz Whisperlite bottle full of gas would appear to weigh more than 2 lbs, from what I'm reading. Maybe I don't have that right. It's confusing.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #176 on: June 04, 2018, 12:18:59 PM »
When I was a kid, one of the first camping adventures I took on my own as opposed to being part of a camping group from Summer Camp was to Mt. Marcy, Lake Tier of the Clouds considered the start point of the Hudson River.  I was around 13 or so.  The photo below looks exactly as I remember it.


Lake Tier has the highest lean-to campsite built on Marcy for staying overnight.  It was the first campsite I ever stayed at which had 2 signs on the wall.

1-  The Water from the lake was not potable for drinking.

I did however drink water from my canteen which I had collected from streams on the way up the mountain without boiling, and I did not get sick.  This was of course in the early 70s, before such campsites had been over-camped and over populated by the endless stream of nature worshipping hikers that camped there since.

2- NO CAMPFIRES or cooking fires.

This to me was insane.  What is camping without campfires?  I had my Primus Stove and could "cook" (really just heat up) my freeze dried food, but the whole illusion of being out in "nature" was forever broken for me that day.  I realized how dependent I was on the various industrial civilization products I had with me which enabled me to spend a whole big ONE NIGHT camping at Lake Tier of the Clouds.  I had enough fuel with me for about 2 nights if I was frugal, in case of emergency.  Another day's worth of food I could eat cold like dry salami and cheese.  My backpack was an Aluminum Frame model with the pack itself made from nylon.  My hiking boots were really nice made from real leather and still manufactured in Amerika at that time, but I certainly could not have made anything close to them despite having taken many classes on making Mocassins at Summer Camp.

To get to Mt. Marcy in those daze before I had a Driver's License, I took the Subway into Manhattan at the Port Authority and a bus up to the State Park.  There were just about no services available at the park back then, nowhere to buy stuff if you forgot it in packing up.  About the only things you could buy at the store were batteries and matches.

It was early fall and the leaves had started to turn colors and was quite beautiful, but up at altitude at that time of year is got pretty cold and I couldn't make a fire.  I had a pretty good sleeping bag also made from industrial products although it was real Goose Down not "hollow fill".  I awoke in the morning pretty cold with just my Primus to heat up a package of Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate to warm me up.  I dispensed with the idea of cooking up the eggs I had carefully packed and carried up the mountain for a big breakfast and just ate some Salami & Cheese while I packed up camp, which did not take long since I stayed in the Lean-to and didn't set up my own A-frame "pup' tent, which were the only small camping tents then available before all the Dome tents you see today with the bendable fiberglass supporting poles.

Although I was many years/decades away from being a Doomer then, I realized how the whole "camping" experience was an Illusion and you weren't living any closer to anture than I was living in MY HOUSE in Quees,  About the only thing I ddn't have with me was a TV, in those days they were too big too crry in general.  Today you could bring along your Tablet and many campers do that.  I would likely do that if I still was up to camping at all.

I don't know when they started dropping rules like "No Campfires" down in some National and State Parks, I suspect though it was in the 50s or 60s.  Each year that goes by here we become less and less able to leave the industrial civilizationeven just for short getaways, much less exit entirely to "live off the land".  Fo many if not most Amerikans now also, anything more spartan than car camping in an RV is "roughing it".  The campsite needs Full Hookups with water, sewer and electricity.  In a way though this is less dishonest than the campers who go out with just a backpack and fool themselves they are somehow less  dependent on industrial goods than the car campers are.  All those cool gadgets you bring with you right down to your Swiss Army Knife make it possible for you to pretend you are Robinson Crusoe for a night or two.  It's all fake, a facsimile of nature and you can't get away from it anymore anywhere.

Once upon a time though, it was nice to sit around the campfire and sing "Kumbaya".  :'(  Those days will never come again for RE on this side of the Great Divide.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #177 on: June 04, 2018, 12:34:11 PM »
In the country where I grew up, there was nothing but private land. 100% private. Mostly small holdings of 100 acres or less.

But guys like my Dad hunted in the woods at night with dogs, and ranged for miles in the woods in the dark, crossing fences when they came to them. Dad was a Coon Hunter...but many nights I can remember we'd be sitting beside a fire (or in warm weather, just sitting in the dark) waiting for the dogs to "tree" and we'd also hear other hunters, fox hunters, doing a similar thing.

Land owners were generally accepting of this kind of trespass, back in earlier times, maybe partly because it was difficult to prevent, but also because it was a very old custom, and the men in the woods were local men, and they were trusted to be responsible.

We don't live the same way now. All towns have the same stores, and the people come and go. Nobody is tied to the land, and those more wealthy people who can still own land generally view it as their responsibility and right to keep everybody else the hell off of it.

Different world. Too many people. All strangers.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online RE

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #178 on: June 04, 2018, 02:15:48 PM »
Different world. Too many people. All strangers.

A different world indeed, and the changeover was none too good.  I don't think I would want to go back to Lake Tier of the Clouds now even if I could still hike.  It would depress me too much.

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Offline Surly1

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Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
« Reply #179 on: June 04, 2018, 02:16:06 PM »
In the country where I grew up, there was nothing but private land. 100% private. Mostly small holdings of 100 acres or less.

But guys like my Dad hunted in the woods at night with dogs, and ranged for miles in the woods in the dark, crossing fences when they came to them. Dad was a Coon Hunter...but many nights I can remember we'd be sitting beside a fire (or in warm weather, just sitting in the dark) waiting for the dogs to "tree" and we'd also hear other hunters, fox hunters, doing a similar thing.

Land owners were generally accepting of this kind of trespass, back in earlier times, maybe partly because it was difficult to prevent, but also because it was a very old custom, and the men in the woods were local men, and they were trusted to be responsible.

We don't live the same way now. All towns have the same stores, and the people come and go. Nobody is tied to the land, and those more wealthy people who can still own land generally view it as their responsibility and right to keep everybody else the hell off of it.

Different world. Too many people. All strangers.

This post really resonated with me. Not because I am any sone of the soil, but the working class area I grew up in outside a city was semi-countrified, as the alleys were old cowpaths, abnd people still kept chickens. People were more tolerant, because they knew one another.

A "hangout" today:
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

 

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