AuthorTopic: Trauma (psychological)  (Read 4956 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 11:40:00 AM »
An example of somatic holding would be.....

Almost every man, at some point in boyhood, is viciously kicked in the "nads by some bully, usually a sneaky bully who gets in a good one before you even know it's coming.

You never really completely erase that memory of extreme pain. Lying on the floor with the wind knocked out of your sails, probably extremely nauseated and helpless, while the asshole responsible has a good laugh at your expense.

You carry that with you forever, if you're not lucky enough to let it go.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 11:40:28 AM »

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 11:53:45 AM »
An example of somatic holding would be.....

Almost every man, at some point in boyhood, is viciously kicked in the "nads by some bully, usually a sneaky bully who gets in a good one before you even know it's coming.


I have never been kicked in the 'nads by a bully.  Or ever punched in the face either.  As big an asshole as I am, I am astoundingly good at staying out of physical fights.  :icon_sunny:

I have been hit in the 'nads by a baseball (not wearing a cup! ouch!). I have also had my 'nads crunched by gymmies a few times when I was spotting them.  A good gymmie works up a lot of momentum doing consecutive flip-flops, and occassionally a leg or arm goes haywire and this hits the spotter in the wrong spot.  It doesn't feel too good.  You can't believe how much force a 50 lb gymmie puts out doing flip flops, it's astounding.  But is this a TRAUMA I live with all my life and affects all my thinking thereafter?  No, I take a 10 minute break and I get over it.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 11:56:27 AM »
First chakra work is a convenient euphemism for pelvic massage, which for men involves the perineum, the prostate, and the scrotum.

Women can get pelvic massage too, and most of them have old trauma held in this area too, maybe more even than men, since many if not most women get raped or sexually abused at some time in their lives.

It isn't just sexual trauma though. People my age were often spanked rather brutally by their parents and teachers, who did this, not out of meanness but out of love, but in a misguided way.

Margot Anand got into this because she found it was difficult to teach most Western people tantric practice, because they were "walking wounded" with a lot of deep, old unhealed wounds.  Even the kind of active meditations they teach (like Quantum Light Breath, for instance) can result in these wounded souls melting down and undergoing scary stuff like spontaneous rebirthing. By taking a week to do healing work first, it made it easier for a lot of people to get to the real tantric practice, which is an entirely different subject than what we're talking about.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 12:16:43 PM »
People my age were often spanked rather brutally by their parents and teachers, who did this, not out of meanness but out of love, but in a misguided way.

I am your age, and I never got spanked either! Obviously, I missed out on a lot of trauma here.

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Offline g

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 12:19:11 PM »

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable. 

Offline JRM

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 12:25:21 PM »
Well, I certainly was kicked in the nads by a few bullies during my youth, just as Eddie said most of us guys have been.

I'd like to have some pelvic massage!

Unfortunately, most massage therapists aren't trained in, nor qualified for, helping their clients address emotional and psychological trauma as it may appear on their tables.  I'd want to work with someone who knows how to work with that sort of thing.  And I want to be the kind of body-centered meditation teacher who knows how do be intelligently, informedly present with trauma, as it may appear in the meditation hall.  We do a form of mindfulness meditation which is deeply somatic, very body-oriented.  I mostly teach movement meditation, though we do also sit on cushions for part of any given session.

I recently had a student say that she had dissociated during our session.  It was then that I knew (many other indicators over the years!) that I should learn how to help my students by learning more about how trauma may show up in the hall.

I've seen all kinds of fascinating psychological stuff come up for folks during our sessions.  Movement meditation can be very powerful stuff!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 12:35:01 PM by JRM »
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline RE

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 12:27:20 PM »

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable.

This is a Violation of the CoC.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline JRM

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 12:32:33 PM »

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable.


I think we've ALL received a fair bit of flak for our various beliefs, attitudes and persuasions.  The thing is, I value ARGUMENTS -- not in the sense of heated language and name-calling, but in the sense of offering evidence and reasoning in support of various views, political or otherwise.

At least half of the regulars in here are prone, at times, to disregard such argument (evidence, reasons and reasoning), probably because they don't have good arguments in this sense.  If you get flak for Right Libertarian views, it may be because you're skating on thin ice.  Just sayin'.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline RE

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2017, 12:32:58 PM »
Well, I certainly was kicked in the nads by a few bullies over my youth, just as Eddie said most of us guys have been.

Having avoided this, I obviously don't have the trauma associated with it.  This is a deficiency on my part. So I can't relate well to this.  I can only relate to having been kicked in the balls by my gymmies.

RE
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Offline JRM

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2017, 12:41:36 PM »
Well, I certainly was kicked in the nads by a few bullies over my youth, just as Eddie said most of us guys have been.

Having avoided this, I obviously don't have the trauma associated with it.  This is a deficiency on my part. So I can't relate well to this.  I can only relate to having been kicked in the balls by my gymmies.

RE

You're lucky!

Part of the difficulty getting a handle on "trauma" is that there are an abundance of often contradictory ways of defining it and discussing it.  There are many theories, as well.

I think there are two very different basic meanings people have in mind when using the word trauma, and they are, to my mind, both valid.

One kind of trauma doesn't lead to tramatization in the sense provided in the first video posted in this thread.  The other kind does. 

Both kinds lead to symptoms, but different kinds and degrees of symptoms.

My task is to sort all of this out, somehow.  It takes a lot of reading and listening -- and will probably require a lot of my time over at least a year of time.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline g

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2017, 12:47:16 PM »

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable.


I think we've ALL received a fair bit of flak for our various beliefs, attitudes and persuasions.  The thing is, I value ARGUMENTS -- not in the sense of heated language and name-calling, but in the sense of offering evidence and reasoning in support of various views, political or otherwise.

At least half of the regulars in here are prone, at times, to disregard such argument (evidence, reasons and reasoning), probably because they don't have good arguments in this sense.  If you get flak for Right Libertarian views, it may be because you're skating on thin ice.  Just sayin'.

Yes, it could be a number of things JRM. Reasonable Reply.

I do suffer Trauma and pain from it though, no matter what the reason. You left in a great huff with much pain and emotion a while back, claiming you thought you were among friends. It's the same way I get, a betrayed feeling just for being different. I will also strike back with a vengeance and worsen the situation. It's like a punt in the balls to me.

Whatever the case it causes me much Trauma, the topic of discussion, and I am leaving the topic for a while to avoid another painful episode of it.  :-\

Offline Eddie

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2017, 12:51:05 PM »
An example of somatic holding would be.....

Almost every man, at some point in boyhood, is viciously kicked in the "nads by some bully, usually a sneaky bully who gets in a good one before you even know it's coming.


I have never been kicked in the 'nads by a bully.  Or ever punched in the face either.  As big an asshole as I am, I am astoundingly good at staying out of physical fights.  :icon_sunny:

I have been hit in the 'nads by a baseball (not wearing a cup! ouch!). I have also had my 'nads crunched by gymmies a few times when I was spotting them.  A good gymmie works up a lot of momentum doing consecutive flip-flops, and occassionally a leg or arm goes haywire and this hits the spotter in the wrong spot.  It doesn't feel too good.  You can't believe how much force a 50 lb gymmie puts out doing flip flops, it's astounding.  But is this a TRAUMA I live with all my life and affects all my thinking thereafter?  No, I take a 10 minute break and I get over it.

RE

Remember way back when I was writing about personality, and I mentioned "physical sexual type" vs. "emotional sexual type"?

You are a high physical, and probably don't hold as much pain in your body as some people. As a gymnast, you learned early to breathe and let go of pain, and not hold it inside. Physicals don't hold pain in as bad as emos do.

I like that 'kicked in the balls" example because it is more than physical trauma. It's usually emotional trauma too, with lots of shame and maybe guilt. I never even realized I was holding on to psychic pain at all, until I explored it with a teacher. It just came up, boom. It's usually not something people are even conscious of, at all.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 06:07:43 PM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline g

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2017, 12:58:56 PM »
Quote
This is a Violation of the CoC.

RE

See what I mean JRM. This is what happens when a topic is brought up honestly and sincerely. The big dog starts barking that it's not to his liking, and the puppies soon start barking as well or remain silent. Fighting back lands you in Jail or post censorship. Two posts ago he was telling everyone that all topics are chewable by Diners.  :icon_scratch: ::)


                                                      <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VFCM6TZgTMI?ecver=2" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/VFCM6TZgTMI?ecver=2</a>

Offline JRM

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Re: Trauma (psychological)
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2017, 01:01:00 PM »
Getting kicked in the nads as a kid in the schoolyard will certainly leave a lasting effect.  But it isn't likely to have the same kind or degree of a lasting effect as to have gotten into a bad car accident in which there was a fire and one was badly burned along with one's child. This happened to one of my students, which predisposed her to dissociating in our meditation hall during a session.

Now I have to get a handle on these distinctions.  Hmmm....  I know, without a doubt, that traumas which seem to the traumatized person to be life-threatening cause a different kind and degree of symptoms than being punched or kicked by a bully (most of the time) ... UNLESS the one being threatened or harmed by a bully feels that his or her life is at stake.  And even then, much depends on how we handle that experience immediately afterward.

According to Peter Levine, founder of the Somatic Experiencing approach to trauma therapy, all mammals will shake immediately after a traumatic event -- except humans, who only sometimes shake in this powerful, involuntary way.  We're supposed to shake in this way, 'cause we're mammals, but we often don't.  We inhibit that process -- often because we've been discouraged from doing what comes naturally.

In the below video, we can observe this shaking at minute 2:05.

https://vimeo.com/89958115   -- I tried embedding this video, but it failed.

Levine says that if we don't allow ourselves to shake in this way after a traumatic event, we are at serious risk of PTSD.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 01:04:22 PM by JRM »
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

 

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