AuthorTopic: Heads Up  (Read 3126 times)

Offline luciddreams

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Re: Heads Up
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2017, 01:47:52 PM »
Quote
What is the difference between dialogue and debate?

Debate is oppositional; two opposing sides try to prove each other wrong. In dialogue, one listens to understand, to make meaning, and to find common ground. In debate, one listens to find flaws, to spot differences, and to counter arguments. Dialogue enlarges and possibly changes a participant's point of view.

Socratic Seminar as Dialogue vs. Debate
www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/.../DiagloguevDebate018.pdf

Search for: What is the difference between dialogue and debate?

Dialogue involves a certain kind of sensitivity -- and empathy, compassion..., listening.... Above all -- humility (not humiliation, for humility is neither thinking too much nor too little of one's self or one's point of view).

We need a LOT more dialogue in this Diner and a lot less debate.  That's not a declarative statement, but an expressive one.

Little debates can happen in the context of a dialogue.  They can flare up and subside.  And productively so.  But the age of war must come to an end.  Enough combat already.  I'm going to plant some pansies and make a home for some butterflies now.  I'm a faerie, after all.

I like both dialogue and debate, and I do both. 

Over the years I have changed my mind on certain issues due to communications here on the Diner.  I've also read a lot of books I would otherwise have likely not read (at least they were recommended here).  My mind is not permanently fixed on any one belief on anything.  My mind is fluid and dynamic, and my ego does not need bolstering or petting.  I read books on topics that I'm interested in.  That has been mostly collapse/peak everything oriented over the past ten years, but also myth, psychology, various spirituality's (mostly pagan and Druidry but also Buddhist and comparative religion).  I also read a good bit of fiction from time to time. 

Over the years I have grown because I have listened, dialogued, and debated here in the Diner.  I am an optimistic pessimist.  I can see no reason to be optimistic about the deep future because of the energy situation.  However I'm personally optimistic about my place in the collapse.  I choose to be.  That is, I'm doing things that matter as a response to collapse, but these things also just enrich my life.  Splitting bamboo and weaving baskets, making and playing shakuhachi, making all other manner of whatever I can imagine with bamboo, studying the plant, but then also I have many permaculture endeavors including my business.  My children are fantastic and both very talented and intelligent as is my wife...as am I.  There is nothing wrong with being proud.  That balance must be struck.  I have a mentor in Keiji Oshima and he has led a very interesting life filled with intrigue, and he is extremely talented and intelligent.  I learn every time I see him, and not just about bamboo either, but life in general.  It amazes me the things that he knows. 

All of that to say that I'm not fixed in place, and I'm not about just debating people, and I'm not about being right, or stroking my ego.  I'm about the exchange of ideas, and learning, and saving as many as I can.

I happen to agree with RE on most things simply because I have come to the same conclusions independently from him.  I have read many books, and I have written many blogs, and many stories, and many non-fiction essays (my favorite form), and many poems.  I get so tired of people coming here and accusing us of group think just because we agree.  I suppose technically if a group agrees than they are practicing group think.  It's sort of like the "cult" debate we had a while back.  "Group think" is negative because (I believe at least) it comes from 1984 which is a negative dystopia (dystonia and topiary are what the red squiggly recommends in place of "dystopia" which is a cussin' word and also a red squiggly).  Just like "cult" reminds people of Jone's Kool-aid slurpers. 

I have a feeling that you are tired because you have not been able to convince any of us other Diners to take your torch, JRM.  So you hold your torch.  You obviously have time (at least you have had the time).  If you just don't like us then fine...say so...and leave.  I hope that you stay because I value your opinion.  You have changed my mind in some subtle ways since you have been here.  I have learned from some videos you have posted, and I have spent time thinking about things that you have said.  Don't throw the other Diner's out with the RE (baby with bathwater).  RE can be a fuckin' dick head...a lot of the time...but he's also a good man who's heart is in the right place.  I know him IRL.  He's rough around the edges, as am I. 

As far as you being a faerie goes...nobody has any problem with that here.  Be what you are.  If you like weiner along with vagina...or just weiner...or you don't like either...makes no difference where dialogue and debate are concerned, but you are mostly going to get debate here.  I think most of us like to argue, but that doesn't mean that most of us are static of mind. 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 01:54:24 PM by luciddreams »

Offline luciddreams

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Re: Heads Up
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2017, 01:50:21 PM »


If I seem curt and more under the radar than usual it is because I am writing my own blog framework as every blog I have seen has issues I would want to see fixed were I the webmaster.  Other blog software unfortunately have so many layers of complexity it is difficult for blog owners to customize them and as a result they are all a bit clunky.

Things are going well but it it is a big job.  Lots of things to learn.  Wordpress can be customized but due to its high complexity it is easy for the FBI to drop a few files in to hijack control and re-write archives as they have done at Kunstler's blog.  With my lean and mean yet snazzy looking software it will be difficult for someone to take control or monitor my site as I have observed while deeply examining other sites.

I think other people might have done this if the learning curve were not so steep.  Fortunately I have humped that curve.  Also the number of people who can appreciate the need for blog software that is lightweight portable and more immune from being fucked with by the deep state than common offerings is small.

I often wonder about that.  I've written so much here over the years.  How easy would it be to change what I have said, and I have no idea, and then people read it and attribute it to my avatar and it not be me. 

Such is the nature of the Matrix. 

Offline RE

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Re: Heads Up
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2017, 04:11:45 PM »
And I agree that forum software is better for discussion than blog software, but I'm not sure the JRM really wants to be a moderator, whether he realizes it or not.  In any case, I think the blog/forum combo seems to be the most successful: the blog brings people in, and people stay for the forum discussion.  (In the case of Permies.com, he has a podcast rather than a blog as a feature.)

The Blog-Forum combo hasn't been as successful as I hoped it would be.  If you notice, there's a whole crew of DIFFERENT Diners who frequent the commentary on the Blog itself, no matter how many time I entreat them to join us in discussion  here on the forum.  It's apparently too complex or too confusing for many readers.  But it's really the only decent type of platform for discussion.  You can keep topics together and revisit them.  Blog commentary, every time you write a new blog you get a new comment stream.

Far as JRM is concerned, what he said was he was going to go looking for a site with more congenial people, so this sounds like he wants to talk with others, not write an expository blog.  However, you sorta can't do one without the other, because unless people know what you are about and where you're coming from, why would they drop on your forum to chat?  If there was some forum with his spin and people already there and talking he could just join up, but I know of no such forum.  So he has to start it on his own if he wants a place to chat about these issues, but not get hammered on by me when I think he is being unrealistic.

Starting a Blog/Forum like the Diner isn't EZ, and definitely moderation is not EZ. But unless you run the show, you're not going to get your way all the time.  You don't even get your way all the time when you DO run the show!  ::)

RE
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 04:18:20 PM by RE »
Save As Many As You Can

Offline RE

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Re: Heads Up
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2017, 05:10:41 PM »


If I seem curt and more under the radar than usual it is because I am writing my own blog framework as every blog I have seen has issues I would want to see fixed were I the webmaster.  Other blog software unfortunately have so many layers of complexity it is difficult for blog owners to customize them and as a result they are all a bit clunky.

Things are going well but it it is a big job.  Lots of things to learn.  Wordpress can be customized but due to its high complexity it is easy for the FBI to drop a few files in to hijack control and re-write archives as they have done at Kunstler's blog.  With my lean and mean yet snazzy looking software it will be difficult for someone to take control or monitor my site as I have observed while deeply examining other sites.

I think other people might have done this if the learning curve were not so steep.  Fortunately I have humped that curve.  Also the number of people who can appreciate the need for blog software that is lightweight portable and more immune from being fucked with by the deep state than common offerings is small.

I often wonder about that.  I've written so much here over the years.  How easy would it be to change what I have said, and I have no idea, and then people read it and attribute it to my avatar and it not be me. 

Such is the nature of the Matrix.

That's why in the age of computers it's quite EZ to convict anybody of just about anything if they are a political enemy and you control the police state and judicial system.  All you need to do is confiscate a laptop and then plant on it whatever you like, from terrorist bomb plans to child pornography.  Your only defense is to deny that you ever wrote it or downloaded it.  The Judges assume you are lying and the Gestapo is Honest.  Then you get further vilified in the Media, and everybody believes you are guilty.  See the way they took out Elliot Spitzer for this.

If they wanna get ya, they'll get ya.  You can't use a computer and the internet for communications without opening yourself up to this vulnerability.  In the olden days, they had to at least demonstrate it was your handwriting on a document to show it was your work.

I don't worry about computer security so much because of this.  It's not something within my sphere of control.  Worrying about it is like worrying Nibiru will collide with the Earth.

RE
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Heads Up
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2017, 07:00:34 AM »


If I seem curt and more under the radar than usual it is because I am writing my own blog framework as every blog I have seen has issues I would want to see fixed were I the webmaster.  Other blog software unfortunately have so many layers of complexity it is difficult for blog owners to customize them and as a result they are all a bit clunky.

Things are going well but it it is a big job.  Lots of things to learn.  Wordpress can be customized but due to its high complexity it is easy for the FBI to drop a few files in to hijack control and re-write archives as they have done at Kunstler's blog.  With my lean and mean yet snazzy looking software it will be difficult for someone to take control or monitor my site as I have observed while deeply examining other sites.

I think other people might have done this if the learning curve were not so steep.  Fortunately I have humped that curve.  Also the number of people who can appreciate the need for blog software that is lightweight portable and more immune from being fucked with by the deep state than common offerings is small.

I often wonder about that.  I've written so much here over the years.  How easy would it be to change what I have said, and I have no idea, and then people read it and attribute it to my avatar and it not be me. 

Such is the nature of the Matrix.

That's why in the age of computers it's quite EZ to convict anybody of just about anything if they are a political enemy and you control the police state and judicial system.  All you need to do is confiscate a laptop and then plant on it whatever you like, from terrorist bomb plans to child pornography.  Your only defense is to deny that you ever wrote it or downloaded it.  The Judges assume you are lying and the Gestapo is Honest.  Then you get further vilified in the Media, and everybody believes you are guilty.  See the way they took out Elliot Spitzer for this.

If they wanna get ya, they'll get ya.  You can't use a computer and the internet for communications without opening yourself up to this vulnerability.  In the olden days, they had to at least demonstrate it was your handwriting on a document to show it was your work.

I don't worry about computer security so much because of this.  It's not something within my sphere of control.  Worrying about it is like worrying Nibiru will collide with the Earth.

RE

Yeah, that's pretty much my take on it as well.  Not gonna worry about it.  The only thing I'm doing contrary to tptb is talkin' shit, doing permaculture, and advocating for bamboo.  Apparently there are a couple of states in the NE of Merika that just outlawed bamboo.  Fuckin' unbelievable.  You can't even smoke it and get high!  You can make a pipe with it though  :laugh:

 

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