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Offline g

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2012, 08:12:53 AM »
"A mite out of touch", Thanks for being so kind K, my head, it appears, is imbedded in my ass. I honestly had no idea, "clueless" as they say.
 
Where I am in Boston and a good thirty mild radius actually, things can only be described as pleasant compared to your current perch.

Have nothing to say at present. My foolish ass hole view of the current situation in America has rendered me speechless. Thought we had the usual slums and such but nothing like this yet. Excuse me for a while as I attempt to yank my head out of you know where!     :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:


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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls - Night Violence in Madrid
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2012, 08:22:44 AM »

Why do they let the Gestapo drag off some random Protestor?  If 10 Gestapo swamp a protestor SWAMP THEM with 100!  They HAVE the NUMBERSUSE THEM

Same thought was in the back of my mind while I watched th vid. I guess you just moved it to the front.   :icon_mrgreen:

From what I was told by a friend who went to S17 in NYV, they absolutely did this-- "unarrested" protesters-- where they had the numbers.
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline Karpatok

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2012, 08:43:54 AM »
 That's perfectly OK Buddy, for I didn't know either. I cannot measure what an education I have received in the past four almost five years since I knew LO, How the Mighty Have Fallen. It's all good Will's Wheel of Fortune writ large. I am perfectly willing to accept the role of accomplice in my own downfall having of course had the audacity to try to invest my own money having already been skewered twice before. That in itself was a total no no and like some of my other rather willful acts of trying to stand on my own two feet led to complete disaster. I was no different than countless other Americans, just not shrewed and experienced enough to play the game. You have to under stand my view. I am as you have seen, tremendously angry, but I am not bitter. This is a rounding out of life that I am glad in a way not to have missed. I never cared a fucking fig for money and especially not for those whose pursuit of it was the main focus of life. I am still myself, that self that I was at five and six, at twelve and twenty. I knew then right from wrong and magnificent from worthless. I cared then only for truth, beauty and justice and that passion never has and never will leave me. They can never take your soul from you.

Offline g

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2012, 09:10:48 AM »
Yeah, I have been on the up and down ride a few times myself. At that stage in life where Ernest Hemingway's statement " Life is a Dirty Joke " describe my feelings well and contains much wisdom.



Offline Karpatok

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2012, 09:16:59 AM »
But Go, the point is America is bigger than Spain. Spain's small. America is huge in everyway by comparison. Its poor and hungry are much more spread out and hidden. And our culture in my opinion is very,very dysfunctional, materialistic,dishonest , twofaced. hypocritical. Not to mention low brow. So we will have to wait and see how and if we follow Greece and Spain and the others. Maybe we are more stable in a very bad way being so huge. Without single driving characteristics thousands of years old and floating in a sea of multiculturalism from sea to shining sea. And now it seems we are becoming more like our old nemesis the Soviet Union or what the Soviet Union has turned into after its collapse. But what the hell do I know? I don't even know what I am talking about. Though it seems to me that these smaller countries,if they could withdraw from the clutches of the EU scum, could resurrect themselves in their homogeneity and become self sufficient because they still have the skills and knowhow. And we don't.

Offline g

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2012, 09:33:28 AM »
Agree again K, This Euro drama is pure bull shit as far as I am concerned, a soap opera for the dim. The hurting countries over their are going to tell the Nazi's to go take a flying fuck for themselves and go back to where they were before this Euro pipe dream.

When our turn comes there will be no place to go, nowhere to hide, and no country to say Fuck You too. Not a time I am looking forward to for sure. Total mayhem is assured the way I see it. That shit hole you are in will seem like Versailles when these spoiled ignorant bastards here go ko ko. There is no way it won't be very ugly.

Offline Snowleopard

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2012, 09:36:43 AM »
  Thanks again. I still say what I said before when the miners marched on Madrid. They have balls. What do we have?  Nuthin. We got just damn NUTHIN. NO brains. NO balls. NO Heart. NO CFS. WHY ? How is it possible to respect Americans or America at all? Somebody? Puleese.. Did you see how many damn people came out? How many were there. What the Hell is wrong with this GOD FORSAKEN ROTTEN excuse of a country? Stand up you rotten cowards and I don't mean for Jesus!

Probably because there is still a certain amount of safety nets to help the oppressed survive, food stamps, unemployment insurance, food banks etc. Once these no longer exist, and it will happen, then you will get your mobs in the streets. There are of course many other factors at play in America, this is obviously just a partial answer.
There is also a big difference between taking to the streets with your neighborhood, a mass protest, or standing alone which could well be considered martyrdom in this situation. It has to be a group effort by it's very nature, an extremely large group. Most people want to stay alive, I certainly don't blame them.

Certainly hunger and survival issues are part of the motivation for protests/riots in EU.  Anger is a larger factor.  Solidarity is bigger.  It is these factors that are absent now in FSA.

Looking back at large demonstrations and riots in US history, the larger ones demonstrate either movement solidarity,  spontaneous anger or both.  Hunger and survival have seldom been a big part of it.  Those who marched on the Dark City after the Kent State murders were not deterred by fears they too could be shot, but were spurred on by anger at injustice. But generally, peaceful solidarity marches tend to draw the largest numbers here in FSA.
"A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest." -  Simon and Garfunkel

Offline g

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2012, 09:51:12 AM »
Hi Snowleopard, I don't know about the anger part of your statement but the solidarity is not there.

It would certainly seem strange for hunger to cause the end in the USA, we used to be known as the Bread Basket of the World.  Most likely a financial breakdown will cause it.

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2012, 10:53:48 AM »

Not just Tyler, Stoneleigh on The Automatic Earth also doesn't seem to make this connection too well.  Far as i know she still denies the relationship between the Credit Crisis and the Energy Crisis, DESPITE the fact she is "Expert" in both areas.  On an Economic Level, Elvis (Steve from Virginia on EU) pegs this the best despite some bizarre notions about "Fashion".  LOL.  Elvis and I had a big brawl over that one a while back here on the Diner before you joined up.
Because once you see that industrial civilization requires debt as opposed to other bubbles which were simply manias, and once you recognize that AG civilization itself is the root problem of pyramidal systems of oppression, while everything else is a mere consequence, there really isn't much to say, is there? Not much to blog about...as seems to be the case with you lately.  LOL.
I think Stoneleigh really gives a good roadmap (or at least some things you can do besides being paralyzed by the inability to make any major moves at self-sufficiency). At least one can live by her nine points and hope, because we're all trapped in the system, while those who have the means to exit the system, prefer to game it still.

Offline monsta666

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2012, 11:32:50 AM »
Anyhow, I think there are two factors at work here, first one is Cognitive Dissonance.  for many people, no matter how smart they are they cannot escape the Programmed Meme that Humanity is destined for ever greater Technological Feats and will eventually Colonize the Universe in Warp Driven Starships.  The idea that Humanity in fact is destined to return to Neolithic or even Paleolithic lifestyles does not Compute.

The second factor is Willfull Rejection, where people DO grasp this is underway but because it means just about everything they hold to be true is NOT true, they choose to reject it.  This I think would be the case with Tyler Durden, Karl Denninger and others who buy the Kapitalista Meme.  The whole structure of their arguments is built around this idea, so to ADMIT that there is an underlying and fundamental FLAW in the argument is to crash their ENTIRE world view.  This in fact is why I got into so many arguments with Karl and why he eventually Hit the Ban Button on me on Ticker Forum.
On further reflection and thought I think a third reason for this behaviour may stem from the fact that these professional writers wish to maintain their reputations and social standing. If a writer were to be completely upfront or take all their theories to their logical conclusions then they would be labelled a doomsayer and shunned by the public and mainstream media. Since often writers/pundits live and die by how much attention and recognition they receive there is a powerful incentive to send a message that is more palatable to its intended audience. This effect is probably pretty widespread and I think you could identify some writers who are guilty of this. I do recall now that there has been an occasion where I have asked some people for their opinions in private to see if it matches their public opinion just for this reason. I just forgot about this when asking this question to you.

Going back to the point where people have ideas but do not follow through with these ideas to their logical conclusions. I think Chris Martenson does indeed get it and often states how global finance is a gigantic ponzi scheme and seems to have a good head that most major governments and banks are effectively bankrupt and the situation of peak oil, resource depletion and climate change will only exacerbate these enormous debt problems further. However despite making these sound conclusions he fails to follow his theory to its logical conclusion and I have never seen him consider the implications of what would happen if the government goes bankrupt and the supply chains fails.

@ Reply RE,Monsta66, Have much the same feelings you do about peak oil, but do not have a technical background so  I agree by instinct, common sense, and opinions of others and I can tell you gents something you are surely aware of but may be underestimating its psychological power.

You can take make my word for it that this fracking business has created a body of no energy problem forever cult people and is being heavily promoted by Wall St to keep the game going.
I think a big part of this cult belief my come from the fact that this fracking or promise of unlimited oil gives people the excuse that their lifestyle is more sustainable than is really the case. The whole fracking hype job also works on the societal meme of progress and human innovation which people are more susceptible to believing. People want to believe that the industrial age was all due to our intelligence and had nothing to do with energy. This story of fracking reinforces this belief not to mention it gives further support to how "great" the capitalist model really is. I would also argue that this faith in capitalism and free markets has taken a cult like dimensions in the past two decades and this marketing has tapped into this entrenched belief.

Speaking of fracking the Oil Drum recently posted an article on the fracking going on in the states. Wonder what peoples' opinion of the article are:
Is Shale Oil Production from Bakken Headed for a Run with “The Red Queen”?

Any thoughts on the article?

Offline Snowleopard

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2012, 12:12:32 PM »
Hi Snowleopard, I don't know about the anger part of your statement but the solidarity is not there.

It would certainly seem strange for hunger to cause the end in the USA, we used to be known as the Bread Basket of the World.  Most likely a financial breakdown will cause it.

Hi GO. 

The anger I mean is not the slow burn, cautious anger of the long awakened, but the hot fire anger of a multitude shocked into (usually temporary) awareness by either flagrant atrocity or (in the case of EU) repeated assaults on their sustenance.   This can, and sometimes does, spark the angered into taking action that could jeopardise their life and limb;  but when the provocations cease being flagrant it usually turns into resignation or peacefull resistance.  It might be interesting to see what happens in FSA if unemployed J6P realizes that those behind the "get a job you bum" meme AND those who promote the "lets make jobs by bailing out the banks" meme are also behind the massive outsourcing of US jobs.

I first heard the "financial breakdown causes distribution breakdown resulting in massive disorder" hypothesis from Howard Ruff in the 1970s.  He thought it was imminent.  I still think it's still plausible in the cities, but I've been waiting awhile!  It seems more likely after a financial breakdown that there will be lots of food available, but the "underclass" will have little means to buy it.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 12:39:19 PM by Snowleopard »
"A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest." -  Simon and Garfunkel

Offline agelbert

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2012, 02:11:27 PM »
p01,
Stoneleigh is an excellent example of the blind leading the blind. Her "practicality" and "real world" mindset is insufficient to navigate the total departure from ethical behavior that modern corporate finance and the central banks are now engaged in.

Her advice is folly. RE's advice is tough love. Some people want to be babied. RE doesn't DO nuance even though he is perfectly capable of splitting hairs until the cows come home. Nuance, at this time, is the path off a cliff. RE is right.

Stoneleigh's "lifeboat" is going to sink from lack of foresight. Those that follow her advice will pay the consequences of unwise policies and plans:


Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline RE

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2012, 03:13:20 PM »
Not much to blog about...as seems to be the case with you lately.  LOL.

Excuse me?  I write 1-2 full length articles/week plus chatting inside the Diner every night.  That's not enough RE for you?  LOL.

You might try JOINING, there are a few boards you don't have access to as a Guest.  More reading there.

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2012, 03:29:49 PM »
GO; Maybe in the counting house where you are still residing and the blackbirds are still flying because the pie has not yet been baked,you are just a mite out of touch. I, the princess of Rockwood Parkway, represent  not just the dead middle class, but the upper middle in its literal last gasp. This is a room in a transient hotel that asks no questions when you arrive. It is close to two hundred years old and houses many former prisoners,and present debtors and drug addicts. But now it is not even as full as when I came two and a half years ago. No, it is not a tent in a clearing in the woods or in a park, and my room has its own bathroom unlike most of the others. We,at present are inundated with bedbugs which as you may not know are nearly impossible to extinguish in a building that has almost no maintenance. The black slumlord owner is I believe, about to let it go, and where will we go then? To the shelter down the street? Last week, a man was shot in the parking lot over drugs which was rare for I have scared them from dealing in front of my door at four in the morning. Oh, food. For the time being, the princess still pays half her check to have her food delivered, but as you know, every week the price of food goes up. Does one hike more mean maybe that lone assasins bullet? I don't know. K

KK, this has the makings of a Feature Article.  You've already got me Hooked.  What's the rest of the Story?  How did you go broke?  What about Family, Brothers or Sisters?  What's your current source of Income?  Why do you have Food Delivered?  What about Food Stamps?  Where is Rockwood Parkway?

If you write a full piece and send it to me in PM I'll put it up on the Diner Blog under your byline.

RE

RE
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Offline JoeP

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Re: For Whom the Bell Tolls
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2012, 03:43:47 PM »

KK, this has the makings of a Feature Article.  You've already got me Hooked.  What's the rest of the Story?  How did you go broke?  What about Family, Brothers or Sisters?  What's your current source of Income?  Why do you have Food Delivered?  What about Food Stamps?  Where is Rockwood Parkway?

If you write a full piece and send it to me in PM I'll put it up on the Diner Blog under your byline.

RE

That's right - Everybody Wants to Know this interesting story.    :icon_mrgreen:
just my straight shooting honest opinion

 

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