AuthorTopic: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread  (Read 37834 times)

Offline Surly1

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Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« on: March 15, 2012, 03:52:59 AM »
Many reasonable people simply roll their eyes at the thought of a "9-11 conspiracy." Even if you can dismiss the facts that fires alone had NEVER brought down a skyscraper, the mystery of Building 7, the thermite found in the dust, the rush to clear the crime scene . . .  you might want to confront this and ask, "why."

‎"Of course the order still stands" Cheney tells his Naval Aide Douglas Cochrane as the unauthorized aircraft, tracked and targeted by military radar, is allowed to come in to strike the Pentagon, NORAD on "stand down", not a single defensive missile launched or even shot fired to defend the building - "The Air National Guard and Air Force air defense units of the United States were prohibited from carrying out their standard intercept procedures as detailed above on the morning of 911; after they had received the alerts from ATC and FAA..These orders came from the executive office of the president"

http://www.standdown.net/FAAstandardinterceptprocedures.htm

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Standard Intercept Procedures

 

It is a fact that standard intercept procedures for dealing with these kinds of situations are totally established, in force and online in these United States 365 days a year, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day.

Regarding rules governing IFR requirements, see FAA Order 7400.2E

'Procedures for Handling Airspace Matters,' Effective Date: December 7, 2000
(Includes Change 1, effective July 7, 2001), Chapter 14-1-2. Full text posted at: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIR/air1401.html#14-1-2FAA

Guide to Basic Flight Information and Air Traffic Control (ATC) Procedures,'
(Includes Change 3, Effective: July 12, 2001) Chapter 5-6-4 "Interception Signals"
Full text posted at: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0506.html#5-6-4

FAA Order 7110.65M 'Air Traffic Control' (Includes Change 3, Effective: July 12, 2001), Chapter 10-2-5 "Emergency Situations" Full text posted at: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp10/atc1002.html#10-2-5

FAA Order 7110.65M 'Air Traffic Control' (Includes Change 3, Effective: July 12, 2001), Chapter 10-1-1 "Emergency Determinations" Full text posted at: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp10/atc1001.html#10-1-1

FAA Order 7610.4J 'Special Military Operations' (Effective Date: November 3, 1998; Includes: Change 1, effective July 3, 2000; Change 2, effective July 12, 2001), Chapter 4, Section 5, "Air Defense Liaison Officers (ADLO's)" Full text posted at: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/MIL/Ch4/mil0405.html#Section%205

FAA Order 7610.4J 'Special Military Operations' (Effective Date: November 3, 1998; Includes: Change 1, effective July 3, 2000; Change 2, effective July 12, 2001), Chapter 7, Section 1-2, "Escort of Hijacked Aircraft: Requests for Service" Full text posted at: http://faa.gov/ATpubs/MIL/Ch7/mil0701.html#7-1-2

'Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction 3610.01A,' 1 June 2001, "Aircraft Piracy (Hijacking) and Destruction of Derelict Airborne Objects," 4. Policy (page 1) PDF available at: http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

The Air National Guard and Air Force air defense units of the United States were prohibited from carrying out their standard intercept procedures as detailed above on the morning of 911; after they had received the alerts from ATC and FAA. Absolutely no executive-level input of any kind is required for standard intercepts to be scrambled. 
There wasn't any indication in any alerts received by air defense units that "shoot-downs" may be required as opposed to intercepts -- i.e.; that the planes were definitely under control of "hostile" forces -- because ATC/FAA could not have known that.

When the first alerts were received from Air Traffic Control, all that air defense units were required to do was scramble standard interceptors to make contact with the incommunicado and off-course jets. F-16s and other fighter planes would have overtaken every single hijacked plane on September 11, before they had reached their targets. To view locations of air bases: http://www.StandDown.net/USAFbases.htm

If, at the time of interception, it was determined the aircraft were under hostile control and likely to impact targets, high-level air defense commanders at the Pentagon's National Military Command Center (NMCC) are fully authorized under existing and established regulations and procedures to authorize a shoot-down, in order to protect the United States of America from attack.

Yet air defense units that were ready and able on 911 at at least 35 nearby installations were ordered not to scramble interceptors: they were ordered to stand down from carrying out even the first stage of standard intercept procedures.

These orders came from the executive office of the president as well as from complicit individuals in the aforementioned NMCC.

There is no question that if these interceptors had been scrambled at the time alerts were received, they would have intercepted the hijacked planes before targets were approached in every instance.

And there is no way that the office of the President or the NMCC could have known through any standard means that these incommunicado flights required anything other than standard interceptions, because ATC and FAA alerts did not relay any such information. The alerts simply requested that standard intercept procedures be implemented and that interceptors be scrambled forthwith.

Some disingenuous excuse-makers say things like: "Well, there was no air defense response because the U.S. had no procedures for dealing with such 'attacks,' because the U.S. had never been 'attacked' this way before."

This sheer, complete nonsense: fully established procedures for dealing with intercepts of all kinds, including of hostile aircraft, existed on September 11, as detailed above.

Furthermore: when those first alerts were received from ATC/FAA, there was no mention of any "attack" and no need for "unusual" procedures. There was only a need for standard, first-stage interceptions to be scrambled, and higher authorities prevented that.

Other disingenuous excuse-makers then say: "Well, of course higher authorities stepped in, because they had to see what was going on with the whole situation, as 'America was under attack.' "

America was not "under attack" when those first alerts were received; certainly ATC and FAA had no way of knowing so early in the proceedings that the jets which had broken communications and gone off-course were part of any "attack."

So why did the executive branch and high-level military authorities deliberately order the air defense interceptors to stand down? Nobody could have known that early in the proceedings that 'America was under attack"... or could they have known?

Those who ordered the stand down did know that early in the proceedings that "America was under attack" because they were complicit in the attack, and took all possible steps to ensure that the attack would take place, unimpeded by the air defense of the United States.

True patriots in this land who have sworn to protect and defend our Republic must consider these irrefutable facts and set about unswerevingly to bring these complicit individuals to justice.

As I may have told you long ago, I am a tyro at questioning the state. and such a task is not my principal activity. I am a small, specialty manufacturer who has gotten caught up in being disgusted by my government's lies and that has caused me to look at certain events more closely than those who are thought to be responsible for that scrutiny.

As you know by now, I have also been outraged by the monstrous lies that the government has foisted on the public, with the cooperation of the press, concerning the failure of the us military to interdict and prevent the murderously damaging conclusion of 3 or 4 commercial airliners on 911.

Just by searching The New York Times archives, I found the policy and the methodology for intercepting a runaway Lear 35 [Payne Stewart's charter]. The story clearly establishes that F-16's were scrambled to intercept this bizjet within 25 minutes of its failure to report to controllers upon its reaching its cleared altitude of 39,000 feet. These F-16's were scrambled only upon the loss of a radio communication: the transponder never ceased to function.

Air Defenses Stood Down On 911 After ATC Alerts Given

by R. Anderson

Source: http://www.attackonamerica.net/airdefensesstooddownon911.htm
“The old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

Offline JoeP

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 03:15:38 PM »
USA Used Tactical Nuclear Weapons in Afghanistan and Iraq


"Something like this was said after the September 11, 2001. While investigating the New York twin towers incident some experts from different countries came to conclusion the towers went down (together with the third one that was seldom mentioned in the Trade Center attack report) as a result of small yield thermonuclear explosions. The scenario advocates point to seismic shocks on the day of the attack and the fact that some fire fighters and policemen who were at the place of destruction died years after because of cancer."
just my straight shooting honest opinion

Offline Surly1

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The 9-11 conspiracy theory in less than five minutes
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 10:20:45 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/A_IZaUuK_d0?version=3&amp;feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/A_IZaUuK_d0?version=3&amp;feature=player_detailpage</a>
“The old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

Offline Danno

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 07:58:36 PM »
Hi,

I thought I would put my F77 page back up. Here it is.

http://www.lakeweb.org/F77/

Best, Dan.

nobody

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 12:04:34 PM »
This isn't a popular thread for this forum but one very close to my heart.  It seems to me that everything radiates from here, or leads back to this.  I know it didn't start with 9/01/01 but it maintains unequaled significance in denial for me.  I remember at the time -and I was just as innocent as any lamb back then with my little boys and my Beatrix Potter stories -that, watching that horror unfold; I was being entertained.  and royally.  It was a very obvious and recognizable style of the popular genre.  I was perfectly confused by this; astonished into oblivion by the cruelty I knew I was witnessing.  Everyone was excited.  My favorites were the women who called people all day long crying; one of these bothered me and I hung up on her.  I was busy.  Within a year I was talking in my basement to a guy who delivered a used washer to me about this conspiracy.  We didn't even have all the excellent facts displayed here and we didn't need them.  Unequaled significance in the denial arena.  This seems very important to me and I hope people keep talking here.

nobody

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 11:27:19 AM »
Did I say 09/01/01?  I did.  what a dumbass.  Yet it's the true 9-1-1 and I've always wondered about this date.  If I look it up (concerning numerology), I get too upset by the heavy occult so I'll just correct.  One other thing about the towers.  Were the first responders just collateral damage or a target?

Offline Surly1

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 11:32:41 AM »
Hi,

I thought I would put my F77 page back up. Here it is.

http://www.lakeweb.org/F77/

Best, Dan.

Good page.
"When you find falsifications in a hypothesis you throw it out."

Unless, of course, you are hijacking the Constitution of your country, in which case you double down on crazy.
“The old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

nobody

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 07:39:10 AM »
The F77 page is quite good.  That 9/11 video is one of my favorites.

"In science, finding falsifications of a hypothesis means you throw it out. It has nothing to do with what one 'feels' about the truth."

Was that meant for me?  Moi? 

If so, everyone's always been too polite to tell me that and it's perfectly ok with me when someone does.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 08:36:32 AM »
The F77 page is quite good.  That 9/11 video is one of my favorites.

"In science, finding falsifications of a hypothesis means you throw it out. It has nothing to do with what one 'feels' about the truth."

Was that meant for me?  Moi? 

If so, everyone's always been too polite to tell me that and it's perfectly ok with me when someone does.

@ nobody, not at all directed at you. I am far more direct.
My quotation was directed at the comments made on the f77 page, and the tissue of lies and unprovable theories upon which the entire official liturgy of 9-11, and hence the eternal and utterly unwinnable "War on Terror" are ultimately based.

The hijacking of the Constitution and of what used to be our way of life has been perpetrated under cover of this coup, all perpetuated by lies. All of it, all the blood, the treasure, the useless militarization of daily life, the utter bullshit of it all, all based on lies. And benefiting the one per cent of this country.

Not for nothing did Jay Gould famously say, "You can always hire half of the working class in this country to kill the other half."

For my part, I am glad you are back here!
“The old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

nobody

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 10:36:12 AM »
My dear Surly, I need a nap.  Thought I was talking to Dan who reposted the F77 page.  I've been spending more time figuring out the lay of land here, but I'm not there yet!  It's just quite a creation, the Diner.  I am a bit sensitive about not being able to contribute at the highly educated level that's really taken a grip here.  I soldier on.

Thanks for your reassurance; sorry to bother!

Offline Surly1

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2012, 11:27:22 AM »
My dear Surly, I need a nap.  Thought I was talking to Dan who reposted the F77 page.  I've been spending more time figuring out the lay of land here, but I'm not there yet!  It's just quite a creation, the Diner.  I am a bit sensitive about not being able to contribute at the highly educated level that's really taken a grip here.  I soldier on.

Thanks for your reassurance; sorry to bother!

No bother at all; never a bother.
In terms of the layout of the Versailles-like expanse of the DD: there is much to learn. Even someone like me, who has never read anything he doesn't want to repost within, and who seems unable to shut up, finds plenty to learn ALL the time. Especially the vagaries of code. Peter soldiers on himself, tinkering with widgets... I imagine him the garage mechanic who wants to see what will happen if he welds the septic spatter onto the gazelle rod. Now how does that exhaust vent?

But the DD SURE kicks out the jams out of the little two room apartment we had over at Yahoo.

Yet here, like there, it is the PEOPLE who make the forum worthwhile. RE's iconoclastic twists and turns of whimsy, Peter's deep understanding of how the world works and a firmly alternative view of same... plus other friends, who gather in this place to warm the rooms a bit and make it feel lived in.

So unpack your portmanteau, throw a sweater over a chair, and wander around. I find DD to be the greatest pleasure and most undeserved gift since my father built me a sandbox when I was six years old.
 :icon_scratch: Surly1
“The old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

nobody

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2012, 12:12:55 PM »
Wrong Surly; you do deserve it and I'm sure the creators agree.  I like that you're on so much and bringing loads of news to the table.  Even when I wasn't often lurking for a few months, I used to check in here first for news.. lots and lots of news conveniently in one spot.  I'm nostalgic about the old yahoo site tho and miss the people who don't post much here.  Like you said, it's the people.. and now there are more and really, RE earned it and Peter created a work of art. 

Back to the conspiracy, aside from messianic media, can it be that the vast majority of people are still deep in the kool-aid about 9/11?  I know "it's still the same old story.." -us against them (always an us; always a them), but I wonder.   I wonder in complete mystification that there is no redress concerning 9/11.   So I really like your thread.

Offline RE

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We are not WORTHY!
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012, 10:34:11 PM »
But the DD SURE kicks out the jams out of the little two room apartment we had over at Yahoo.

Yet here, like there, it is the PEOPLE who make the forum worthwhile. RE's iconoclastic twists and turns of whimsy, Peter's deep understanding of how the world works and a firmly alternative view of same... plus other friends, who gather in this place to warm the rooms a bit and make it feel lived in.

So unpack your portmanteau, throw a sweater over a chair, and wander around. I find DD to be the greatest pleasure and most undeserved gift since my father built me a sandbox when I was six years old.
 :icon_scratch: Surly1

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-FucbvoFFy0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-FucbvoFFy0</a>

RE
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Offline reanteben

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 10:55:26 PM »
i just mentioned judy wood in a comment to joe. have you guys checked out her stuff? i'm convinced. the implications of believing in it will take you into el gallinazo territory. check out this gorgeous video. watch it in 720P. is that controlled demolition or is that an explosive disintegration/dustification? then hit the 'show more' tab below the player for a good intro with additional links:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dueVm1UGvXo&amp;feature=player_embedded#!&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/dueVm1UGvXo&amp;feature=player_embedded#!&fs=1</a>

Offline Surly1

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the 9/11 dustification by directed energy weapon
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 01:07:37 PM »
I stumbled on to this link and 1) don't have the time to give this the attention it deserves, and 2) assume that even if I did, I lack the technical knowledge to assess whether any of this is valid, or is of the headwrapping-with-tinfoil school of thought.

Anyone familiar with this writer or this turf?

http://atrueott.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/scalar-weapons-all-you-need-to-know/
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 10:24:06 AM by reanteben »
“The old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

 

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