PE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> Your 9-11 conspiracy thread

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Offline reanteben

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 05:22:00 PM »
from the article

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According to Bill Morgan: “If you can cause an earthquake you can also set it to, say, bring down a single buildings, of pair of buildings. It may be that the collapse of WTC twin towers was actually the first major scalar attack in world history. Because in a certain mode the waves at the interference zone can cause metal to soften, even to melt. If so, the planes crashing into them were merely a cover story to cloak the fact that the Tesla Howitzer had been used.

hey surly. i posted this 9/11 vid...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dueVm1UGvXo&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/dueVm1UGvXo&fs=1</a>

...a couple weeks ago and mentioned judy wood, who believes from the physical evidence that the towers were "dustified" -- disintegrated, in other words -- by a scalar weapon. the most obvious clues being the manner in which the towers came apart, and the lack of a rubble pile that should have been some 15 stories high. she has three interviews spanning eight hours at Veritas. there are many other bizarre facts surrounding 9/11 that she covers exhaustively at her website:

http://www.drjudywood.com/

also, unlike bill morgan, above, she does not believe that aluminum planes could penetrate a concrete and steel building. she notes in particular that one of the wtc towers had an imprint of where the wing entered all the way out to the wingtip. at the tip the cutout from the wingtip penetration was just five inches tall. how could an aluminum wingtip penetrate such concrete and/or steel? it seems impossible in my mind. she does not speculate beyond that and therefore does not theorize on the film footage of the planes.

el gallinazo thinks she puts undue emphasis on hurricane erin, which was a few hundred miles off the coast of NYC the night before, and which made an extremely unusual 120deg turn on 9/11.



a gif of erin:



the idea being that the energy and field effects of erin were potentially directed at the in the form of a (scalar) directed energy weapon (DEW), resulting in erin downgrading from Cat 3 to Cat 1 and changing course so uncommonly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

el gallinazo, despite erin's presence and dramatic change in course thinks that there is no need for TPTB to utilize a hurricane's energy and field effects because they have the capability to generate the beam independently. in fairness to wood, she does not give the impression that she is up to speed on black budget weaponry, so her examination of erin makes perfect sense.

an explosive interview that el gallinazo thinks highly of, that peter and RE have also listened to, is with benjamin fulford, the english language spokesperson for the Dragon Family, an asian consortium that reportedly owned the 100B-plus of US bearer bonds that were confiscated in Chiasso, Switzerland in 2009. fulford is larger than life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiasso_financial_smuggling_case

the interview is given by david wilcock. they have great chemistry. it's fuckin far out. an epic, heroic narrative of deep deep politics, involving exotic weaponry, in which the NWO sphere of influence is shrinking and the cartel is desperately fending off a challenge from a powerful collection of adversaries, including a lawsuit that has been filed against the Fed. it's hard to know what to think of this interview but at the very least it is entertaining. perhaps peter or RE can weigh in, although i figure RE doesn't think much of it. 

here's the interview:

http://divinecosmos.com/podcasts/Wilcock_Fulford_2011-9-14.mp3


(thanks peter for the Save button)

ben



Offline Surly1

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 07:18:21 PM »
Wow, ben, a lot to chew on here. Many thanks.

But for all this, I am still not sure what to make of Dr. Ott. Scalar weapons aside, he seems to sport a particular hard on for the edomites, and when this sort of diatribe appears, I head for the tinfoil.
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

nobody

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2012, 08:31:21 AM »
So Ben, this scalar stuff, it's HAARP, right?  I brought it up here months ago.  Started looking into it after there was talk around the net following the devastating earthquakes around 09.  You get into the harnessing of physics by TPTB and there is no purity left.
We are in a world of hurt here.

Offline peter

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 11:06:22 AM »
I have no doubt scalar technology exists well beyond what we can imagine. During his lifetime Tesla demonstrated the potential of such technology beyond question. His research didn't just become forgotten and go away. That the continued research isn't made available to the public is not a good sign as to it's eventual application. If TPTB's intent was goodwill to the masses we would know about this stuff.

In the current propaganda climate it is impossible to know the truth about anything because all the information we have available to us other than what we directly experience ourselves is provided from unverifiable sources. The scope of possibilities ranges from everything is lies to everything is true.

I'm pretty much convinced at this point that there is a massive propaganda effort underway to constantly introduce new conflicting information, whether true or not, in order to keep us mesmerized and confused so we are unable to act against whatever the agenda of TPTB is. We have been well trained not to act until we are convinced we know what we are doing.  If we feel we don't know what's going on we can't act.

To overcome this ennui we need to conclude that regardless of what the truth is we want no part of what is going on and attempt to define and implement another way of life that allows us to act on our own initiative.

Personally I am going where I am going irregardless of where the status quo goes.

I don't pretend to know the truth about 9/11 but will point out some clues that suggest to me what might have happened.

However the pyrotechnics at the top of towers 1 and 2 where achieved, power beams from space, or massive quantities of explosives planted beforehand at the level the planes would hit, there is also lots of information that massive explosions took place in the many below ground level floors before the towers were hit by planes.

The video footage clearly shows the towers falling earthward after the initial pyrotechnics. If it was just a beam from space attacking the towers from the top, the towers would be crushed into themselves from the top down, not free-fall because they no longer had bottoms.

The outside walls of the towers  were not part of the structural components of the building, only the massive columns in the center of the building held it up. The outside of the building was only a thin skin to keep the weather out. There weren't massive exterior concrete walls or columns, only cosmetic panels mostly made of glass and aluminum with a bit of concrete ribbing.  The reason there weren't massive amounts of concrete left over is there weren't massive amounts of concrete to start with. The many sub-groundlevel floors that were somehow turned to molten metal left a huge hole that the towers could fall into placing most of the rubble below ground level.

Even an aluminum plane traveling at a few 100 mph would likely penetrate thin cosmetic, not structural, panels such as the skins of the buildings. A 2x4 traveling on end very fast will easily penetrate concrete as demonstrated in a number of tornadoes.

There where about 20 floors of building above where the planes hit and it appears to me that planted explosives also took out the core supports at the level where the planes hit. 20 floors of building falling through one suddenly missing floor onto the remaining floors below would have a massive amount of momentum which could easily turn the small amount of concrete in the skin to powder as it was crushed from above. Both the top and the bottom were falling at the same time but the bottom of the building would slowdown first as the unsupported remains rammed into the earth. The top of the building would then hit the bottom and start to crush it from the top with it's momentum helping to drive the lower section into the ground just like a hammer hitting on a nail.

WTC7 which I assume was meant to be hit by flight 93, which was shot down, did not explode at the top. The bottom of the building was taken out by explosives and it then fell to earth through empty space. It was likely scheduled to have explosions at the top as well to help mask the obvious characteristics of a planned demolition but because no plane hit it to explain top explosions they had to make a decision to only use the demolition explosions without the pyrotechnics resulting in the  the collapse of WTC7 being a much more obvious demolition job.

Placing enough explosives into buildings to do the damage which occurred is a massive time consuming undertaking not possible to accomplish without having substantial access to the buildings for an extended period of time. Regardless of who was behind 9/11 there is no question in my mind that the insiders that control our government were participants in the plot. Looking at who controlled the security of the structures makes that plain as day.

   
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 11:14:01 AM by peter »

Offline reanteben

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2012, 12:39:24 PM »
So Ben, this scalar stuff, it's HAARP, right?  I brought it up here months ago.  Started looking into it after there was talk around the net following the devastating earthquakes around 09.  You get into the harnessing of physics by TPTB and there is no purity left.
We are in a world of hurt here.

nobody, i know next to nothing about the HAARP installation, but i'm guessing that HAARP has nothing to do with 9/11. it seems more likely it would be a black project of DARPA or SDI (Star Wars) - a satellite equipped with a scalar weapon. a major piece of evidence for this argument are the vertical and almost empty Holes in WTC6, WTC5, and other areas in the complex. (scroll to the right edge of photo.)



as for HAARP and earthquakes, i did listen to a fantastic interview of steven jones by bonnie faulkner last year in which he explained why he does not believe HAARP can produce deep earthquakes. the relevant material starts at 14.30 but if you have the time i'd recommend the remainder of the interview as jones goes on to discuss the supression of the independent free energy movement.

http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/7041


nobody

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2012, 01:19:31 PM »
Peter, I just tried to post a response to Ben on this subject but forgot to log in!  -I use different computers.   So it might show up for moderation.

"I'm pretty much convinced at this point that there is a massive propaganda effort underway to constantly introduce new conflicting information, whether true or not, in order to keep us mesmerized and confused so we are unable to act against whatever the agenda of TPTB is."

I wonder if it isn't this enforced confusion that periodically sends me over the top and packing.  I experience it as suffocation.  I got no relief from the latest  bout until I put us on a real path of de-leveraging and heavy planning last week.  I still wake up at night -my mind screaming at me: ..red sky RED SKY at morning..."  Something is up.  The resurgence of occupy is only part of it.  The borg cube which is dc is just buzzing.  Should have known better when we followed employment here; I was thinking, "of course, this area will stay functional longer.... that's why there's work."  I didn't stop to think about my functionality.  When I found this group to talk to, this other part of me has been coming up from great depth, out of a coma. 

Offline peter

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2012, 03:24:32 PM »
I wonder if it isn't this enforced confusion that periodically sends me over the top and packing.  I experience it as suffocation.

The other part of their propaganda campaign is to keep us feeling small and insignificant and feeling we need big brother to protect us from all the big bad meanies out there ranging from terrorists, and ETs  to financial collapse, destructive elemental forces and rogue heavenly bodies.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 03:51:17 PM by peter »

Offline peter

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2012, 04:32:16 PM »
a major piece of evidence for this argument are the vertical and almost empty Holes in WTC6, WTC5, and other areas in the complex.

The building with the largest hole in it is WTC 6 which held the Customs and Excise Department Offices which supposedly held a lot of damaging evidence that was soon to see the light of day. An internal explosion created the hole even before the towers fell. WTC 7 also held a lot of 'touchy' information.

The conspiracy is a high level one and most people working for the Federal Government aren't in on it. There were a lot of low level investigations going on that were accumulating a lot of damaging information demonstrating the conspiracy wasn't a theory. 9/11 was an efficient act that served two purposes. It Provided the cover to start the war on terror while burying much of the evidence of past transgressions of powerful people. Never let a good crisis go to waste!



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http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/wtc6-explosion.htm

Explosion at WTC Complex

 
Despite the fact that the horrible events of Sept. 11 occurred in broad daylight and were widely photographed, significant aspects of the attacks have been completely suppressed by a media blackout.

Exclusive to American Free Press
By Christopher Bollyn

A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has written a word about it.

Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at WTC 6.

The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the 47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m.

The explosion at WTC 6 was shown afterward on CNN. But because it was not broadcast as it happened there has been some confusion about when it actually occurred.

The large amount of smoke seen cascading around the South Tower in the video led some observers to mistake the blast for a dust cloud from the subsequent collapse of the tower.

TIMING CONFIRMED

American Free Press contacted CNN to determine exactly when the footage was filmed.

CNN’s Public Affairs Department confirmed that the explosion shown in the footage occurred immediately after the second plane had crashed into the South Tower. When asked if the footage was taken at 9:04 a.m., the CNN archivist said “that’s correct.”

When asked if CNN could offer any explanation about what might have caused the blast that soared higher than the 47-story WTC 7 in the foreground, the archivist said: “We can’t figure it out.”

The affected space between WTC 7 and the North Tower was occupied by the Customs House building, also known as WTC 6. The building housed the offices of 760 employees of the Customs Service, a part of Treasury. Other federal
agencies had offices in the building, including the Departments of Commerce, Agriculture, Labor, and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. They did not return calls to AFP about the matter.

A spokesman for the Export-Import Bank of the United States, which had an office with four employees on the sixth floor of the Customs House, confirmed the time of the explosion and told AFP that the employees had survived and been relocated. One private company, Eastco Building Services, Inc., reportedly leased space in the building.

Some 800 workers from WTC 6 were safely evacuated within 12 minutes of the first plane hitting the North Tower at about 8:46 a.m., according to a Sept. 18 Washington Post article by Stephen Barr.

The Barr piece is the only known article published about WTC 6. However, Barr failed to mention the explosion that apparently devastated the building just minutes after the workers had escaped with their lives.

AVOIDING THE SUBJECT

Although the Customs House apparently exploded at 9:04 a.m., the government-sponsored investigation was steered away from looking into what had actually happened.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency funded an investigation by the American Society of Civil Engineers. However, investigators were reportedly blocked from the building by an order from the New York City’s Department.
of Design and Construction .

Kenneth Holden is commissioner of the DDC, having been appointed by the former mayor, Rudolph Giuliani on Dec. 7, 1999.

Regarding the investigation of WTC 4, 5, and 6, FEMA’s “Building Performance” report says, “WTC 5 was the only building accessible for observation.” But, it adds, “the observations, findings, and recommendations are assumed to be applicable to all three buildings.”

A spokesman for FEMA told AFP that because the building was considered by DDC to be “very dangerous,” there was “no data collection” from WTC 6.

Dr. Gene Corley, one of the engineers who led the investigation, told AFP that concerns about loose gold bullion and cash prevented investigators from entering WTC 4.

The FEMA report says, “The buildings [4,5,6] responded as expected to the impact loadings.” Although the report says, “most of the central part of WTC 6 suffered collapse on all floors,” it adds, “damage was consistent with the observed impact load.”

The Customs House had a huge crater in its center. Corley told AFP that he had not seen the CNN photos before and called them “interesting.”

Corley, like other experts, thought the damage at WTC 6 was caused by the collapse of the North Tower. However, not one of the experts could recall seeing the CNN footage before.

A spokesman for the Customs Service told AFP, “It did not blow up. When the tower collapsed it caved in.”

Corley said he had not seen the photos of the extremely high-speed missile-like object seen streaking toward WTC 6 from behind the North Tower as the second plane hit the South Tower.

He noted that parts of the plane’s landing gear and an engine passed through the South Tower, and landed several blocks away.

These objects, however, had a distinctly different trajectory from the streaking missile-like object. Another investigator, Jonathan Barnett, told AFP, “The debris from Tower 2 hit Building 5, not 6.” 

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http://wtc7.net/background.html

What Was In Building 7?

Building 7 was one of New York City's larger buildings. A sleek bronze-colored skyscraper with a trapezoidal footprint, it occupied an entire city block and rose over 600 feet above street level.

Built in 1985, it was formerly the headquarters of the junk-bond firm Drexel Burnham Lambert, which contributed to the Savings and Loans collapse, prompting the $500-billion taxpayer-underwritten bailout of the latter 1980s. At the time of its destruction, it exclusively housed government agencies and financial institutions. It contained offices of the IRS, Secret Service, and SEC.
This list is based on a table published by CNN.com, which did not include CIA, whose tenancy was disclosed after the attack in the New York Times article. 1 

One of the most interesting tenants was then-Mayor Giuliani's Office of Emergency Management, and its emergency command center on the 23rd floor. This floor received 15 million dollars worth of renovations, including independent and secure air and water supplies, and bullet and bomb resistant windows designed to withstand 200 MPH winds. 2   The 1993 bombing must have been part of the rationale for the command center, which overlooked the Twin Towers, a prime terrorist target.

How curious that on the day of the attack, Guiliani and his entourage set up shop in a different headquarters, abandoning the special bunker designed precisely for such an event. 3   
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 04:44:48 PM by peter »

Offline reanteben

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2012, 06:28:17 PM »

In the current propaganda climate it is impossible to know the truth about anything because all the information we have available to us other than what we directly experience ourselves is provided from unverifiable sources. The scope of possibilities ranges from everything is lies to everything is true.

I'm pretty much convinced at this point that there is a massive propaganda effort underway to constantly introduce new conflicting information, whether true or not, in order to keep us mesmerized and confused so we are unable to act against whatever the agenda of TPTB is. We have been well trained not to act until we are convinced we know what we are doing.  If we feel we don't know what's going on we can't act.

i mentioned steven jones regarding HAARP in my previous comment. he is one of the fathers of the classicist nanothermite Truth movement. judy wood believes he has led a witch hunt against her and her theory. she reached out to the movement after she made her findings around 2006 and it put her through the wringer. she considers him to either be colluding with TPTB or coopted by them. i would guess the latter. here's an excerpt from an email i received from el gallinazo (LG) a couple weeks ago:

the idea she presents repeatedly that this was a plan B backup for people that are too savvy to buy the ridiculous boxcutter theory, and she compares it to the JFK grassy knoll back-up.  The way some of my truther "heros" such as Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin have treated her ideas forces me now to regard them with suspicion as collaborators, which is uncomfortable but necessary.  But in both the cases of JFK and 9/11, the diversion could not be to divert the guilt of the top levels of government which were clearly guilty as sin of conspiracy to commit mass murder.  The only purpose would be to attempt to hide the fact that they had such energy beam weaponry in orbit and operational.

adding to the intrigue, judy wood's young assistant was murdered and she says that she herself has received death threats. 

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However the pyrotechnics at the top of towers 1 and 2 where achieved, power beams from space, or massive quantities of explosives planted beforehand at the level the planes would hit, there is also lots of information that massive explosions took place in the many below ground level floors before the towers were hit by planes.

is there physical evidence for massive underground explosions or is it just anecdotal? because if anecdotal then people reporting explosions doesn't necessarily mean that the explosions were caused by explosives. if indeed there were explosions it would not necessarily be inconsistent with wood's scalar theory. she considers the dustification of the building to be the spectacular phase of the transmutation. 

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The video footage clearly shows the towers falling earthward after the initial pyrotechnics. If it was just a beam from space attacking the towers from the top, the towers would be crushed into themselves from the top down, not free-fall because they no longer had bottoms.

wood's theory doesn't involve crushing. she suggests it disintegrates certain physical objects (notably not including paper on 9/11) via a field effect similar to the hutchison effect:

http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/JJ4.html

which might mean that even if the weapon was coming from above it would act on the building in its entirety.

one of the major pieces of supporting evidence for the nanothermite crowd is all the physical evidence (iron spheres, etc) apparently supporting it presence. here is what LG had to say about wood's countering of this article (peter has read this previously):

Jones made a big deal about testing the WTC and finding "unreacted nanothermite."  As a former chemist, listening to Wood I had to give myself a serious dope slap.  What is nanothermite but powered aluminum and iron oxide in the form of an incredibly fine mixed power which increases the reaction rate and temperature of combustion drastically.  But since the skeleton of the WTC was steel and the skin, glass and aluminum, and the scalar energy reduced both to nano dust, and it also apparently removed the small amount of carbon from the steel thus converting it to elemental iron, that is exactly what one would expect to find in the dust without the perps using it.  Of course I might be missing something here, and I would be curious to hear what Jones has to say about it.

peter:
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The outside walls of the towers  were not part of the structural components of the building, only the massive columns in the center of the building held it up. The outside of the building was only a thin skin to keep the weather out. There weren't massive exterior concrete walls or columns, only cosmetic panels mostly made of glass and aluminum with a bit of concrete ribbing.

at exactly the 2min mark this video on the construction of the twin towers says the exterior walls were load-bearing:

 
Building the World Trade Center Towers


the planes, if they were real, also took out several levels of thick concrete slab floor:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/px-nflAtHJY&amp;feature=related&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/px-nflAtHJY&amp;feature=related&fs=1</a> 

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The reason there weren't massive amounts of concrete left over is there weren't massive amounts of concrete to start with. The many sub-groundlevel floors that were somehow turned to molten metal left a huge hole that the towers could fall into placing most of the rubble below ground level.

the 'bathtub' (in purple in the photo) in which the twin towers sat was 7 stories deep and the bottom was bedrock. buildings 3 and 6 also resided in it, as well as the PATH train complex.



it's certainly conceivable to me that the available remainder of the bathtub could accept the bulk of the collapsed towers but it by no means strikes me as a certainty. the bathtub was not jam-packed with debris after the towers went away. PATH train under tower 2:



and there was a large hole in sub-basement itself of tower 2:



inside first sub-basement:



i wonder how big might the pile have been above ground if there wasn't inch-deep dust covering large areas of lower manhattan, and a massive dust plume that could be seen from space:





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Even an aluminum plane traveling at a few 100 mph would likely penetrate thin cosmetic, not structural, panels such as the skins of the buildings. A 2x4 traveling on end very fast will easily penetrate concrete as demonstrated in a number of tornadoes.

it is my understanding that 2x4s going through concrete might be attributed to the field effects of tornadoes on objects. this does make me wonder though why wood has not addressed, to my knowledge at least, the possibility that planes did enter the already weakened energy field of the towers. (perhaps because if they were that weakened they wouldn't still be standing? perhaps the phase change from building to dust entailed criticality?)

Quote
There where about 20 floors of building above where the planes hit and it appears to me that planted explosives also took out the core supports at the level where the planes hit. 20 floors of building falling through one suddenly missing floor onto the remaining floors below would have a massive amount of momentum which could easily turn the small amount of concrete in the skin to powder as it was crushed from above. Both the top and the bottom were falling at the same time but the bottom of the building would slowdown first as the unsupported remains rammed into the earth. The top of the building would then hit the bottom and start to crush it from the top with it's momentum helping to drive the lower section into the ground just like a hammer hitting on a nail.

i like that narrative but it also seems to me that the bottom 80 floors could've been rigid enough on the vertical axis that it would've toppled instead of collapsed, since it was no longer anchored at the bottom, and the top floors, only having dropped about 10ft, still had a lot of accelerating to do. also, the top of tower 2 came down at a severe tilt; given this, does it seem plausible the top could've gone off to one side?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9SSS0DDqfm0&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/9SSS0DDqfm0&fs=1</a>

it does appear to go off to the side to a certain extent... and subsequently turn into dust.

then there's the steel. steel turning to dust. it dustified at different rates:





gif. wait for it...



booyah!  :)


Offline reanteben

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2012, 06:43:46 PM »
quote from article on WTC 6:

Quote
A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has written a word about it.

Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at WTC 6.

i really don't think so, peter. check out the CNN footage in question. that smoke plume coming up where i assume WTC 6 is, to me is clearly from the collapse of the south tower. the video footage makes it feel disjointed but it's clearly just the plume spreading out from ground zero. surely there's another angle from the other side of the north tower -- which is partially obscuring the collapse of the south tower -- from which this plume is shot that proves as much. maybe i'll look around for it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WZBhWRzt-aA&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/WZBhWRzt-aA&fs=1</a>

here's wood's coverage of building 6, in her section on the Holes:

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/StarWarsBeam4.html

cheers.

 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 07:12:18 PM by reanteben »

Offline reanteben

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2012, 07:55:23 PM »
in seeking to disprove the narrative, i committed a logical error regarding the cnn vid. while the plume in question looks to my eye to make its appearance in concert with the south tower coming down it could of course also be the scalar creation of the Hole. I don't recall if wood has a time for that occurring but i'll look into it later this evening.

Offline peter

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 08:31:50 PM »
peter:
The outside walls of the towers  were not part of the structural components of the building, only the massive columns in the center of the building held it up. The outside of the building was only a thin skin to keep the weather out. There weren't massive exterior concrete walls or columns, only cosmetic panels mostly made of glass and aluminum with a bit of concrete ribbing.

at exactly the 2min mark this video on the construction of the twin towers says the exterior walls were load-bearing:

 
Building the World Trade Center Towers


the planes, if they were real, also took out several levels of thick concrete slab floor:

I stand partially corrected.

There were load bearing steel columns on the outside of the towers  although the core was the main support structure.


The steel structure was clad on the outside by an aluminum skin that was likely filled by a very light concrete mixture used as insulation and sound deadening which was similar to the concrete used in the floor pans which was apparently 30% lighter than normally used in high rises.  The concrete was not structural in any way. The building was said to have an asbestos problem and a lot of insulation in those days was made of concrete mixed with asbestos.

Open the above picture to full size to see the skin in detail.

The pictures below show that the size of the hole made by the planes was much an illusion.


Notice how large sections of the concrete and aluminum skin were knocked off by the impact but the holes through the steel beams behind are actually much smaller. The main exterior structural integrity was apparently on every 3rd floor where vertical section were joined. It is certainly conceivable to me that a plane could break through such a structure although it would be like putting an egg through an egg slicer and you would mostly have slices of plane left.

The damage to the outer skin suggests to me that at least an object of the right size impacted the building.

Having worked with this light concrete type of insulation around older buildings I know it gets very brittle with age and easily shatters into dust. The steel structure of the towers likely flexed substantially during all the destruction and this flexing compressing the skin could account for it turning to dust.

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    There where about 20 floors of building above where the planes hit and it appears to me that planted explosives also took out the core supports at the level where the planes hit. 20 floors of building falling through one suddenly missing floor onto the remaining floors below would have a massive amount of momentum which could easily turn the small amount of concrete in the skin to powder as it was crushed from above. Both the top and the bottom were falling at the same time but the bottom of the building would slowdown first as the unsupported remains rammed into the earth. The top of the building would then hit the bottom and start to crush it from the top with it's momentum helping to drive the lower section into the ground just like a hammer hitting on a nail.

i like that narrative but it also seems to me that the bottom 80 floors could've been rigid enough on the vertical axis that it would've toppled instead of collapsed, since it was no longer anchored at the bottom, and the top floors, only having dropped about 10ft, still had a lot of accelerating to do. also, the top of tower 2 came down at a severe tilt; given this, does it seem plausible the top could've gone off to one side?


The floor pans were by far the weakest part of the structure. The outside structural steel was locked together like a large box around the structure. If the top section of steel fell to the inside of this box while tipping to one side, the rigidity of the box would tend to draw it back into vertical collapse if the integrity of the box didn't fail. It wasn't falling on a hinge. It was falling to the inside of the structure below. 

Offline reanteben

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2012, 08:35:03 PM »
me again. I just read the article you posted more clearly, peter, (sorry), and I realize the plume in the cnn vid is supposed to appear before the south tower even comes down. so...is it just me or is that indeed the south tower coming down?

Offline peter

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2012, 08:46:12 PM »
I was watching the coverage live from mexico at the time. I clearly remember video footage of employees from WTC 6 who had just been evacuated standing just outside the building and panicking on camera and saying explosions were starting to go off inside the building.

Regarding visual evidence in the basement of the towers... I'm not sure there is any, only the verbal evidence of the workers there. What there is visual evidence of is massive damage in the lobby  to the point of killing people before the towers collapsed. The exhaust of the explosions in the basement would have exited through the lower floors. The damage in the lobbies collaborates what the employees said.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 09:06:28 PM by peter »

Offline peter

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Re: Need some help here...
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2012, 08:58:51 PM »
RE timing of WTC 6 explosion from the article quoted above.

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Some 800 workers from WTC 6 were safely evacuated within 12 minutes of the first plane hitting the North Tower at about 8:46 a.m., according to a Sept. 18 Washington Post article by Stephen Barr.

The video I saw was of the evacuated employees. If the south tower had already fallen they wouldn't have been standing around outside calmly being interviewed until explosions started going off inside WTC6.  The explosions occurred around 9:04am, well before  the south tower collapsed at 9:59am. 

 

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